Cloudflare is the One Tech Company Still Sticking By Neo-Nazi Websites (qz.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: One company is sticking by The Daily Stormer and other far-right websites: the cloud security and performance service Cloudflare. Cloudflare acts as a shield between websites and the outside world, protecting them from hackers and preserving the anonymity of the sites' owners. But Cloudflare is not a hosting service: It does not store website content on its servers. And that fact, as far as the company is concerned, exempts it from judgment over who its clients are -- even if those clients are literally Nazis. In a statement Cloudflare sent to Quartz and other publications yesterday, the company refused to explicitly say it will continue to do business with sites like The Daily Stormer, but pointed out that the content would exist regardless of what Cloudflare does or doesn't do. "Cloudflare is aware of the concerns that have been raised over some sites that have used our network. We find the content on some of these sites repugnant. While our policy is to not comment on any user specifically, we are cooperating with law enforcement in any investigation. Cloudflare is not the host of any website. Cloudflare is a network that provides performance and security services to more than 10% of all Internet requests. Cloudflare terminating any user would not remove their content from the Internet, it would simply make a site slower and more vulnerable to attack."
UPDATE: The Daily Stormer now says Cloudflare has decided to drop their site after all.

Comments

Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool that someone still stands for freedom of speech.

Most people were brainwashed to think that freedom of speech means "freedom to say anything - as long this are the 'good things'".

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[mysidia]

Just because you have the right to say it, doesn't mean people have to actually give you the time, place, or attention.

That's true, but saying it on your own website SHOULD be equivalent to saying it on the doorstep of your house.

No intermediary required for you to to get your internet access should be judging you, because FREE and OPEN communication is the primary value of the internet.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Hear! Hear! They don't call it the "Tyranny of the Majority" for nothing. If what GoDaddy did is how free speech works, then it's likely that the Civil Rights movements would have been dead in its tracks until a majority cared enough to make it visible. That's with everything. This "1984" view of correctness is scary and how it comes from the left as being "say good things or we beat the crap out of you," is even more scary.

Do you really want Nazis working underground? Well, suppressing free speech is how to get Nazis working underground.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[sycodon]

Anyone who defends Free Speech these days is called a Nazi and Racist and their words are called "violent".

Make no mistake, your protestations are not about human decency, they are about a creeping authoritarianism from the left that would allow only approved speech. Guess who the people approving it would be...ya...

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[gravewax]

yep but no one, not me, you, cloudflare or anyone else has to provide them with the loudspeaker, sell them the server or provide them bandwidth, internet protection etc to spread that opinion. Freedom of speech doesn't put an obligation on anyone else to facilitate that and in fact freedom of speech allows others to explicitly refuse you the platform, if they control it, to speak from.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[Bert64]

Exactly...
If you silence someone and make their speech forbidden, then it will attract people *because* its forbidden.
Hiding information from people is never a solution to anything.
Nazis should be free to express their views, as should everyone else.
If people are reasonably educated then they should be able to draw their own conclusions based on the information available to them.

It's also good to hear all viewpoints before you decide where you stand on an issue. Just because someone's views are commonly held as extreme doesn't mean they don't deserve a fair hearing. Once you've learned about their views then you can make an informed decision as to wether their opinion is bullshit, and if so why.

Saying you are against nazis because "omfg nazis!" is almost as stupid as promoting the common nazi ideals. If you're going to speak against something, you should at least have researched that topic thoroughly first so you understand exactly what you're speaking against.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[sycodon]

It will also provide people justifications for trying to suppress YOUR speech in the future.

These people are all idiots.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[shilly]

Some choices:
1. Nazis working underground
2. Nazis working in the open
3. Nazis trying to work in the open but finding it exceptionally difficult because people don't want to associate with them or take their money

I'll have a 3 please!

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Your "3" is just your "1", but makes your group an obvious victim of discrimination, and therefore worthy of sympathy. Great plan.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[sycodon]

So...quash Free Speech to protect Free Speech.

Orwell Called, he says you can write the Sequel.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[fightinfilipino]

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

Talking about nazism and racism, even promoting such views is free speech. It's not an assault on anyone, it's only words. If someone is promoting such views then at least you know where they stand and can decide wether to have dealings with them or not. Which is better than them holding such views in secret. Would you want to do business with someone who secretly hates you and thinks you have no right to live? I certainly wouldn't. I would choose to take my business elsewhere if i knew someone to be a nazi or hold any other such extremist views.

Anti-nazi speech should similarly be protected, and people should be just as free to tell nazis (and any other groups) exactly what they think of them.

Speech should be protected, draw the line at actual physical violence.

come back at me the next time you've had someone call you a "chink" and tell you to "go back home" when you already are.

better yet, come back at me when you can explain why Heather Heyer had to *die*

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[AmiMoJo]

People keep complaining about being called Nazis, not even listening carefully enough to notice that it's not directed at them. It's directed at the guy with the swastika standing next to them.

It's a warning that the mainstream right is being infiltrated and subsumed by the far right. Trump, the guy at the very top, took 60 hours to give a half assed condemnation of those guys. That should worry you.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[sarbonn]

Back when I was a web designer in the infancy of the Internet, I ended up dealing with this a lot. I built and maintained web sites for a bunch of different, diverse companies and one of them was an adult bookstore. The woman that owned that store was a very nice person who sold her smutty books in peace and in person was the complete opposite of the content of any of those books. But after a few years of being hosted by a net provider, a new person was promoted to a higher position at that company, and he went nuts. He was extremely religious and couldn't believe that this "scumbag" was providing "evil" to the masses. Without warning, he completely shut down that site and deleted EVERYTHING off of its servers. He then went after the shopping cart provider for the site and threatened to pull everyone of their clients off his site as well, if they didn't stop servicing the bookstore (even though he now had no connection to it any more). I ended up having to build a shopping cart for her with PHP (learning it over the weekend so I could figure out how to program it), and then I found her a more "adult-friendly" host. But I learned real quick like that people can be really cruel to you for almost no reason whatsoever, even if you've been that person's customer for years in a good, friendly relationship.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[goose-incarnated]

Your previous post is you complaining that people call everyone they disagree with Nazis. Here you are calling everyone you disagree with an idiot.

Yeah, but idiots are still allowed a platform.

When you support the silencing of dissent, don't be surprised when your dissent is silenced.

What goes around, comes around.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[LynnwoodRooster]

No one 'has to' sell services to people

That has yet to be decided. Sometimes the State will compell you to provide services or goods to others, even if you don't like it. I assume all those who denounced the "gay wedding cake baker" will of course denounce the websites dropping this Nazi group, too.

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[jwhyche]

Take that as a weather vane of this country's values. If it's against your grain, leave. Please!

We are taking as a "weather vane" of our countries values. An those values clearly state that you have a right to say, gather peacefully, or hold values no matter how repugnant hey are.

Freedom of speech applies to everyone in this country, every one. Just because you don't like their speech doesn't mean they can't say it. You just don't have to listen to it, like most of us chose not to do.

An if it's against your grain, leave. Please!

Re:Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[jwhyche]

Heather Heyer didn't have to die. She was murdered by individual with disgusting views. That individual is in custody, he will be charged with his crime, and he will be punished for it. At the trial his political views will be taken into account. What more would you want?

As you being called a a 'chink' and told to 'go back home.' Try being called a 'cracker' and told to go back to Europe, or being told the world is better off if you where dead. There are people with little minds in this world. You will not stamp out racism, bigotry, and hatred by simply sweeping it under a rug.

Re: Cool that someone still stands for freedom

[LynnwoodRooster]

And therein shows the hypocrisy as Kennedy espoused. The First Amendment was specifically written about political speech and freedom of association, and it's been twisted to demand freedom of everything but those - you can only say what the State dictates, and you must associate with people the State decides.

Now who's the fascist?

Somebody has to

[SuperKendall]

Free speech means nothing if it's not applied to everyone, including the most odious. For there is always something you would like that someone else would consider obscene and block.

Let it all through. Let people choose and find their own way.

Re:Somebody has to

[rogoshen1]

yar.. if there's one thing worse than this kind of repugnant bullshit, it's censorship.

Re:Somebody has to

[93 Escort Wagon]

Actually, unless the speech can be judged as intending to immediately incite people to violence, it probably is protected.

People (myself included, in the past) love to quote Chief Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes statement "[T]he most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic". Thing is, that ruling was subsequently significantly narrowed some years afterward... it's all about whether your intent is to get people to become violent right now.

Re:Follow the money

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe they have very strict guidelines on ethics and don't bend them just because they "don't like somebody". It could be they believe in not interfering with free speech, no matter how repugnant. A consistent view point in this world of hypocrites is a breath a fresh air.

The Shame

[aoism]

Man, Damore was right that the west coast Techies are all about shame. even if its constitutionally protected speech. I for one applaud CloudFlare while simultaneously giving the Nazis the finger.

Re:The Shame

[goose-incarnated]

Even Damore has come out against the Alt-right.

You sound surprised. You do understand that it's possible to be both against the alt-right, and against the hard-left?

After all, the nazis and antifa have more in common than they differ. However, only one of them is any serious threat, and it's not the one that everyone regards as a joke.

Offensive speech is the type that needs protection

[I kan Spl]

"The First Amendment really was designed to protect a debate at the fringes. You don't need the courts to protect speech that everybody agrees with, because that speech will be tolerated. You need a First Amendment to protect speech that people regard as intolerable or outrageous or offensive - because that is when the majority will wield its power to censor or suppress, and we have a First Amendment to prevent the government from doing that."
- ACLU Legal Director Steven Shapiro

It's true that companies are not limited by the First Amendment, but it's refreshing when one acts as if they were.

Quick question

[ArhcAngel]

What would Godwin say about a post actually BEING about Nazis? Oh, nevermind...this is what he would say.

Free Speech isn't optional

[duke_cheetah2003]

the company refused to explicitly say it will continue to do business with sites like The Daily Stormer, but pointed out that the content would exist regardless of what Cloudflare does or doesn't do.

While I and probably most of us find the content disgusting and repulsive, I for one am glad Cloudflare is standing up for free speech even they disagree with. This takes real balls. And it's a good thing. Free speech isn't optional. Only listening is optional.

Huh? What the bleep are you talking about

[rsilvergun]

these are _literal_ Nazis. This is calling a spade a spade.

If they wanted to advocate for something peaceful they could do so without flying Swastikas. By calling themselves Nazis and flying their colors they automatically imply their intention to act violently because _Nazis_solve_their_problems_with_violence_! This is not up for debate. You might just as well argue grass is blue and the sky green. Hell, you'd have a better chance of proving that because at least color on some level is subjective. The only way you can argue that Nazis are non-violent is if you're arguing against facts from the get go.

Also, when the hell has the left ever argued against free speech? Go Daddy not doing business with Nazis is as much a freedom issue for them as it is for the Nazis. It only becomes a free speech issue when access to _government_ services is denied. And so far as I know it has not.

You and your goofy sig have been on /. for at least a year. You know all this. Are you trolling or cherry picking your facts to preserve your own world view?

Cloudflare has supported us all - a long time now

[Trax3001BBS]

Last I looked thepiratebay.org only had one ISP https://www.robtex.com/dns-loo... one of many that we have a right to.

A post rather than a reply - an attempt at a shot out to cloudflare and a thank you for your service.

"sticking by"

[jm007]

dirtbag yellow journalist excessively editorializing by using the "sticking by" phrase to mischaracterize Cloudflare's stance on Freedom of Speech; support of free speech does not mean endorsement of what another says, it means you have the balls to stand on principle even when you find it distasteful; fucking lever-pullers have an easy time keeping the weak-minded distracted, divided and conquerable