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Hyundai To Build a 300-Mile-Per-Charge Electric Car (reuters.com)
On Thursday, Hyundai Motor said it will launch a long-range electric vehicle with a driving range of 500 km (311 miles) per charge after 2021. The company is reportedly planning 31 eco-friendly models by 2020, up from a previously flagged 28. Reuters reports: The South Korean automaker is planning to launch an electric sedan under its high-end Genesis brand in 2021 with a range of 500 km (310 miles) per charge. It will also introduce an electric version of its Kona small sport utility vehicle (SUV) with a range of 390 km in the first half of next year. The automaker and affiliate Kia Motors Corp, which together rank fifth in global vehicle sales, also said they were adding three plug-in vehicles to their plans for eco-friendly cars, bringing the total to 31 models by 2020. Underscoring Hyundai's electric shift, those plans include eight battery-powered and two fuel-cell vehicles -- a contrast to its 2014 announcement for 22 models, of which only two were slated to be battery-powered. Hyundai also confirmed a Reuters report that it is developing its first dedicated electric vehicle platform, which will allow the company to produce multiple models with longer driving ranges.
Yeah, everyone is promising to do a lot of stuff someday.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I'd buy a gas car with a range of 150 miles before an electric with a range of 300 because of the fillup times alone.
six speeds and two seats --
im not interested, grandpa
But an electric plugs in at night so you have a full tank every single morning. If you don't do a long haul you never ever need to stop to fill up. Plus less moving parts means less repairs and breakdowns. No emissions. Torque and acceleration up the wazoo. The list of benefits goes on for miles.
They are relying on the recent advancement in lithium battery technology (that enables solid state storage at a higher density) to reduce the cost of batteries for their cars since they will be able to get that same range with fewer batteries. I would expect to see Tesla putting out cars with double what Hyundai is quoting on their base models long before 2021.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
...their transgender vaginas.
For all shorter trips the fill up time will be close to zero.
only gets about 100 miles between charges if you don't run the heat or AC. When stuck in stop and go traffic here in Seattle, I'm lucky to get 60 miles of range. There's no way they can do three times better than Nissan that has been at this for over six years.
And tomorrow I leave for a 600 mile road trip. Did another one last month. I'm taking along a full extra 300 miles of range in the trunk this time.
Electrics do not work as a primary vehicle if you leave the city.
And tomorrow I leave for a 600 mile road trip. Did another one last month.
Then don't buy an electric car. They obviously don't fit your use case. But for many other people they are a good choice.
I drive an electric, and I am very happy with it. I will never go back to an ICE.
I want my divorce Bill! You're going to get served as soon as I can track you down, and I'm taking your car in the settlement.
I do these kinds of trips every month or so. You charge your car to 100%, drive 250 miles or so, drive into a supercharger station and park there for an hour or so while eating or walking around. Then you drive another 200 miles or so to a hotel with a destination charger. Stay there overnight and charge to 100% again and the next day you will arrive at your destination with some charge left.
Please bring me a gallon of electricity.
Where do you see a fucking hyphen in Slashdot?
with the 'Eco' feature can go around 500 miles on a full tank. Plus you can put gas in the trunk if you want to go further. . 300 miles make the car more convenient for commuters but it's still pretty useless if you want to go on long trips, which most people do. Talk to me when there are charging stations in the middle of nowhere in flyover states, a viable means to extend range at least 50-100 miles in a pinch and a 500 mile range. Until then we Americans aren't interested.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
The headline is over an electric car that has the same range as a gasoline car since... forever? Not impressed.
Later in that article though is a bit about how hydrogen fuel cells might come to market. I think that hydrogen as a fuel is a terrible idea but the idea that a fuel cell might be cheap and durable enough for a passenger car would be news.
Electric cars and hydrogen fuel cells are all about the supposed "addiction" to fossil fuels, and the damage it may (or may not) be doing to the environment. There is nothing inherently wrong with the internal combustion engine. The problem is in the fuel. Or rather how we get it currently.
The US Navy is developing a means to produce hydrocarbon fuels from seawater. If that gets cheap enough then it can be scaled up effectively infinitely. It's not like we're going to run out of seawater. When the fuel is burned it gets turned back into the water and CO2 it came from. It closes the loop on water and carbon, and there's no sulfur or anything in the fuel, unless put there in the process.
I guess I know why this isn't getting proper funding or the headlines it deserves. The problem is the process is powered by nuclear reactors. It doesn't have to but it does take a lot of electricity. Kind of like the electricity to charge those electric cars, or to produce the hydrogen for fuel cells. The difference is that it can be stored and transported like the fossil fuels we use already. Very little new infrastructure needed.
Maybe that's a problem too. Senators can't spend government money on new infrastructure in their state if the new fuel doesn't need infrastructure, no one can buy votes that way. Oh, and NUCLEAR BAD!! Because strip mining the planet for rare earth metals to make windmills, batteries, and solar panels has NO IMPACT on the environment. On the other hand we could take our fuel from seawater (including the uranium) and use the byproducts (like fresh water, oxygen gas, and sea salt) to feed industry and feed people. Nothing to lose there but your precious government subsidies.
Since senators can't buy votes without subsidies then it's not likely to happen any time soon.
Oh, and another thing. Another potential byproduct of this seawater-to-fuel process is hydrogen gas. We could use that for those fuel cells. Again I think hydrogen is a terrible fuel outside of sending rockets to space but if fuel cells are going to be a thing then we need nuclear power to make that happen. Using fossil fuels to make hydrogen kind of defeats the purpose, using wind or solar would take far too much land, so nuclear is where it must come from.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
ICE cars are better at some things and EV cards are better at other things. Apparently there are a lot of people around that think this makes EVs are worthless, not viable, a waste of time and purchased only by easily duped starry-eyed fanboys.
I believe a lot of people fail to realize the vast numbers of vehicles on the road that are not people commuting to work, getting groceries, or picking up kids from school. There are still a lot of long haul trucks on the road.
Say what you will about replacing trucks with trains and barges but that's not likely to happen anytime soon. Electric commuter cars are just nibbling at the edges of replacing petroleum as a fuel. Even if batteries could be charged in full in a matter of minutes there is still the problem of where to get that energy. Wind and solar is still very expensive and batteries will not change that.
What we need is more nuclear power. From that not only can we charge all those electric cars but we can synthesize hydrocarbon fuels. This fuel synthesis can use the carbon and water from the air, or more likely from the ocean where it ends up after a rain. It closes the carbon loop, so it's as "zero emission" as any electric car with all the advantages of burning gasoline or diesel.
I grew up on a farm and I saw how much diesel is burned to plant and harvest food. A whole lot of trucks need to carry the crop to market. A lot of propane is burned to dry the corn and keep livestock warm. This is not easily replaced with batteries. We can replace this all with synthesized fuels though.
That's just mentioning the farming and some of the shipping. There's still a lot of trains, ships, airplanes, and industrial processes that rely on petroleum. They don't have to any more.
Oh and this...
Torque and acceleration up the wazoo.
It's called a diesel electric drivetrain. Nothing new there, and we don't need high tech batteries for it either.
The list of benefits goes on for miles.
So does the list of reasons that diesel fuel still rules the road.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Long haul trucks are actually an ideal case for EVs - drivers are mandated to take significant breaks. DC charging during them is easily sufficient to keep them running at effectively infinite range.
300 mile range would mean at least one or more likely two stops. That's not really a bad deal.
What about all of us who live in older apartment buildings or terrace houses that don't have off-street parking? We have council parking permits allowing us to park on the street, we don't have a place to plug in and charge overnight.
A giant electro magnet located in the hood turns on when it gets behind a Chevy Suburban or GMC Sierra and the transmission disengages to allow the targeted SUV to "pull" the vehicle down the road. A transducer operated braking system keeps the vehicle from hitting the SUV during sudden stops.
The majority of people don't have garages.
Explain how that's supposed to work for people who don't have a private garage to park their car in and charge it overnight.
In many high density urban areas, where practically everybody lives in apartments or condo's, you don't get that luxury... in many cases, for the foreseeable future.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
There are several companies attaching plugs to street lamp posts. Potentially every lamp post could be a charge station.
https://www.zap-map.com/lamp-p...
https://techcrunch.com/2017/04...
http://www.independent.co.uk/e...
https://www.fastcompany.com/30...
https://johnbrianshannon.com/2...
It's an easy problem to solve.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Electric service is ubiquitous.
It's trivial to install an outlet at a car park, parking garage or lamppost for street parking.
(only 30% of people live in apartments.)
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Looking out of the window I see three lamp posts (all on the same side of the street) and about 30 parked cars (on both sides of the street).
It's not that trivial.
Real life is overrated.
We've had reasonable range from Electric cars for a while now. For most commuters, Even 100 miles a day is plenty, and that allows some longer journeys as well. Especially in Europe, where cities are closer together.
But on those occasions you do need to go further, you need to stop and recharge. A regular fuel powered car, this just requires a minor inconvenience of stopping, refuelling and heading off again. Electric cars though - it takes an hour to fill up the battery, and that's at a Tesla Supercharger station. Even after the infrastructure has improved, that's something that requires a certain amount of prior planning.
What's so exasperating is that manufacturers and the public still aren't taking aerodynamics seriously enough. How smooth is the underside of your electric car? Probably nowhere near as smooth as it could be. Last time I looked, the Leaf had a structural crosshatch pattern showing on the underside. Overlarge grill openings at the front are still quite common. Many people feel that wheel skirts are ugly and will even take them off though that causes 5% more fuel consumption. The fuel economy could be doubled just with better aero. Take a look at the Aerocivic. 95 mpg! The electric version of the Very Light Car gets more than double the range of the Leaf.
But no. That low hanging fruit is left to rot on the tree, while people whine about and sweat over range anxiety.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
First, if you drive 600 miles on a regular basis, you're a statistical outlier and if a mass-market product isn't good for you then that's not very relevant. Second, 600 miles at 70 miles per hour is 8.5 hours of driving. You're going to drive that long without a break, then you're probably dangerous. UK rules for commercial drivers require that you have a half-hour break every 5.5 hours, which is only slightly over the maximum range. A half-hour break is long enough to recharge the car.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... - 20 minutes to charge to 50%, 40 minutes to charge to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100%
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
https://nikolamotor.com/one - nikola offering 800-1200 mile range and 15 minute to refill - its a hydrogen powered EV
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
they will start to install purpose built road side chargers when the numbers of EVs increases. The lamppost install is just using current infrastructure as an interim and quick solution. Its also possible they might start to mark EV only bays next to the lamp chargers as time progresses.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
and don't forget service stations could install a few too. There are also people with driveways renting out their charger during the day to paying customers.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Why are you so defensive about this? If it doesn't work for you then just don't buy it. Do you make it a point at the grocery store to tell them about all the products you don't want to buy?
If this is high end car then the q. may not be so important but this will happen eventually to any of these batteries. So how many cycles can it take?
...and temperature. It's one thing when it's 20C-30C, but quite another when it's -20C to -30C. Batteries hold less charge and there's heating to do in the passenger compartment. We regularly get -40C in winter.
Just realize, there are others, they have different priorities, and they spend it differently
When, or if, your point of view becomes minority view, with additional costs let us see if you are as committed to the 3 minute fillup as the electric car proponents are today, and the stuff they are willing to pay and put up with,
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Or I drive my IC car to a gas station, fill up in two minutes, and am back on the road. . . And even though I live in a major metro area. . .there are a grand total of 4 SuperChargers. . .
Logistics is what **currently** makes EVs unsuitable for regular use for most people. . .
By the time those 3 lamppost chargers are in regular use, some company will have seen the profit in installing dedicated chargers too between the lamp posts.
Once connectors are standardized and the billing infrastructure is developed providing charging points along with parking meters is one of the simplest infrastructure things to do. Predictable revenue stream, electric companies have so much surplus capacity at night. They run at 33% of peak grid capacity at night. They will invest on this in a heartbeat, as the demand develops.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
It is ugly.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
One of the reasons for Teslas success is that they make attractive cars that people don't feel ridiculous driving. Those vehicles you linked to are ridiculous and can't be products because they wouldn't sell.
Real EVs will make stepwise improvements on aerodynamics. They won't suddenly be redesigned.
That is a revenue opportunity for the utility companies. They will provide street side charging and chard twice or thrice per kWh compared to residential customers. They run at 1/3 of peak capacity at nights. For utilities, this is a huge revenue stream, one time investment in lines and plugs and billing infrastructure. Then just ka-ching! count dollars pouring in.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
https://hardware.slashdot.org/...
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Your words to Musk's ears. But of course you know why they do it - most people will say "oh that's too weird" and not buy it.
My "dream car" would be a slightly larger Aptera with the rear taper adjustable, so you can choose between extreme range / top speed / refill rate, or having more cargo space) rear seating. The long taper means that it's basically like an enclosed pickup. And such wing-shaped cars have a higher optimal clearance height to boot.
But I have little hope of ever getting to buy such a car :Ãz
Ever since, I've been suspicious of Jesus and very careful around chlorine.
4.5, not 5.5. Even less.
And yeah, if anyone plans to drive all day without any breaks, do us a favour and let us know when and where so we can try to not be on the road at the same time as you.
Ever since, I've been suspicious of Jesus and very careful around chlorine.
It's easy to say "then don't buy one if they don't fit your lifestyle". But if the govt is mandating Everyone own one by a certain date, they better make it with a range I can use. I work remotely, 1 week on 1 off. 900km up to remote area, after a week 900km home. When they can match the range of my VW TDI, we'll talk.
Chargers are being installed in new public and private parking decks and lots in many places, now. I assume cities will replace parking meters with chargers, too. The infrastructure is already there. It's just a matter of installing some outlets.
I don't respond to AC's.
Parking meters will be replaced by chargers in cities.
I don't respond to AC's.
*fewer
Not less
Is anyone making a reasonably affordable four-wheel-drive electric (or "range-extended electric" a la Chevy Volt) vehicle?
My Toyota Yaris ought to have another hundred thousand miles left in it, but when it dies I'd like to go electric. I've also taken a job in Snowsville, USA, and between that and my fondness for the outdoors may look into getting a 4WD car.
Trivial, sure... cheap, not so much... and then there's still the matter of convincing enough of the owners in a high rise condominium that this is an investment they should actually make for their parking infrastructure, since any such purchase would require no less than a majority vote by the strata. In my experience, most condo stratas have far more immediate and pressing issues that they need to spend money on. A forward thinking owner that is willing to front the cash to add an outlet into their own stall may certainly do so (as long as they get permission from their strata), but when the available carpark has not been wired with any outlets at all, this is still going to be a pretty expensive endeavor because they will need to have a separate breaker box for your own outlet, as well as separate metering (since there is no way that the strata is going to want to pay for you to charge your car). The up-front cost to a single owner willing to front the money to do this is on the order of simply not worth the expenditure, largely owing to the expense of rewiring and getting all of the necessary certifications. If one can find enough other owners in the same building willing to personally shoulder those costs, this can become tenable, but that is not always possible... and in my experience with strata, it's also a pretty safe bet that there's going to be a lot of very cheap people with very loud voices that are going to find things to bitch about while the work is being done, as it creates a (temporary) inconvenience to everybody.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Obviously... But that was kind of my point. The above post to which I responded suggested that a fast fill up time isn't ever really needed, but in practice this is only true when one has available charging facilities at home.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I hope all these vehicles use Tesla's freely licensed charging technologies so the recharging stations will be compatible with each other.
That civic looks dangerous in a rear end collision. What good is mileage if ever accident is fatal.
And still another when it's 50C out.
This is a problem with all new technologies: people with no experience with it create worst-case scenarios in their mind and inflate them, while making little of the problems of the technologies they're replacing.
Yes, you can make your occasional trips, using the sort of break times that you're supposed to take when driving on long trips (regardless of whether you actually take them or not). But that's not your everyday life. EVs start every day with a full charge and you never need to randomly detour from your life to go to a gas station. Now, in your mind, the "taking breaks on trips" thing is huge (because it's unfamiliar), while the "detouring to go to gas stations" thing is little (because it's familiar). But for people who own EVs, that situation rapidly becomes reversed. They get totally used to the luxury of having a full charge every day, and whenever they for whatever reason (maintainance, accident, etc) are forced to use a gasoline car, they end up griping bitterly about the inconvenience of going to gas stations. I've seen it time and time and time again.
And unlike you, they all have experience with both owning gasoline and electric cars. But the conveniences of electric cars become a second-nature expectation very quickly.
Another issue that quickly becomes annoying about gasoline cars can be well summed up by this article: Our Tractor Keeps Shaking Violently & Has A Sore Throat. That's not a one-off, that's an extremely common experience for people once they start driving electric. EV owner surveys have extremely high rates of satisfaction with EVs in general. This translates to brand loyalty as well - Tesla generally blows away all other competitors on brand loyalty - most recently with 91% "would buy again", vs. the next highest (Porsche) at 84%.
Again, though, you haven't ever owned an EV, so you have no experience with this. So your mind makes any perceived downside into an insurmountable wall, while making excuses for what you have to endure for your ICE vehicle and playing them down as if they're nothing.
Ever since, I've been suspicious of Jesus and very careful around chlorine.
Um, cars with real-world 300 mile ranges are on sale now.
Um who's selling this vaporware? It's not Tesla is it?
P85 gets all of 120 miles range!!!
Tesla Roadster 53kWh only got 55 miles!!!
Looks like a quantum leap for hyundai 300 miles.
Feh. And your car will behave like a pregnant sloth. You press the accelerator and it growls and then reluctantly starts to move. What fun is driving THAT?
Be aware that their range drops much faster when being driven over 65mph than that of gasoline vehicles. And there are lots of highways with speed limits over 65mph.
Fast but legal driving (80mph) reduces an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) car by about 10%. It reduces electric vehicles by about 30%. Range on electric cars goes up when driven slower (not so much on ICE cars).
However- for 95% of car trips are under 20 miles. and even for the longer trips, almost all daily commutes are under 40 miles each way.
While "filling" an electric vehicle is getting faster rapidly, it still takes about 15 minutes + 5 minutes over head vs 1 minute/8 gallons + 5 minutes overhead for ICE cars.
However- every day, electric cars start with a full charge so for most owners, the only time they will need to "fill" a car is on long trips. And on a long trip, you can hook the car up and go in to use the restroom/buy a snack. So for most owners, their experience will be *never* having to stop for gasoline again.
Also-- electric cars do NOT pollute locally. That's 4,000 pounds per year per car of pollution not happening.
And no NO2 which has been shown to measurably increase heart attacks at intersections where it rapidly builds up past safe levels when the wind is still and for the 11% of people who live within 100 meters of roads with heavy traffic.
And no PM10 (10 micron particles) which have been shown to have all kinds of negative effects (cancer, lung disease).
No toulene. No Benzine. No unburnt hydrocarbons.
An electric car *locally* only produces tire dust and 1/10th to 1/20th as much brake dust (most braking is regenerative and doesn't use the pads).
Pollution produced to generate electricity is localized to one power plant- where it can be filtered, captured, and scrubbed.
Pollution used to specifically produce electric cars happens at a few rare earth mines. Highly localized. Pollution to make the metal frame and plastic parts would have occurred for an ICE car anyway so that's a wash.
---
So electric cars do not fit long distance trips over 65mph well. It might be 2024 before improving battery capacity and recharging times are at useful levels.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I regularly drive more than 16 hours while only stopping for coffee and gas. I've done way more and id call that dangerous. 8 hours is easy for most people. If your personal limitations are less than that I'm glad you recognize it and do the right thing.
/-.
You press the accelerator and it growls and then reluctantly starts to move. What fun is driving THAT?
Over-engined, naturally aspirated vehicles with manual drivetrains and tight suspension are as instant as you'd like. The time it takes a modern vehicle of that description to react to your input is way below the level of human perception. And they make glorious noises.
I'll be glad when EVs are cheap and ubiquitous, but they aren't better in every way, just the ways that matter most.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
They most certainly aren't unless you go up to the level of supercars. And manual transmission is basically a placebo - you feel that you're moving faster because you're doing something. And electric cars are instant, there's really no comparison.
Over-engined, naturally aspirated vehicles with manual drivetrains and tight suspension are as instant as you'd like.
They most certainly aren't unless you go up to the level of supercars.
Patent nonsense. What makes a car engaging is not speed, it's reaction time. My 240SX wasn't the car I've owned with the best power to weight ratio, but once lowered and stiffened it was the most engaging because it was basically telepathic. And it was fun to drive because with 155 hp, you could drive it at 8 or 9 most of the time instead of dicking around at 3/10ths like you do in a supercar.
And electric cars are instant, there's really no comparison.
But they're heavy, or they have short range. These problems will solve themselves as technology marches on, but for right now if I want a fun car I want a BRZ or a 240SX or an RX7 with a more reliable engine swapped in, I don't want a Model S. I'd love to own a Model S, but I wouldn't be buying it because of the fun factor.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Unless you're peeing in a bottle and eating in the car while you're making that 900km trip, you're going to need to stop at some point. While you're stopped to pee and to eat you're taking up time. If you're honest about how much time you actually take on your stops and how often these stops happen, you can imagine that you could be charging an EV during the length of the stop. So, an EV need not have a 900km range to do your trip, but instead a 900km minus however much it can charge while you're already stopped.
To give you an idea, a Tesla Model S can charge enough to get about 275 km of range in 30 minutes. You start with a full battery, giving you 482km, you stop for lunch (about 30 minutes), get another 275 km, and you've gone 757km of your trip without taking any *extra time* out of your trip to charge your car.
Let's say you need to take two breaks, because your back is sore and you have to pee again, you plug in again on your second stop, and it'll only take 15 minutes of charging this time to get the remaining range that you require for your 900km trip. This also happens to be about how long you would have stopped anyways.
The reality is that even these long trips can already be done by EVs like Teslas without actually increasing the amount of time you're probably taking to do that trip.
Long haul trucks are actually an ideal case for EVs
No, they are not. I used to wash trucks for UPS and I'd talk with the drivers. The REALLY long haul trucks would have two drivers and sometimes even a chemical toilet. They wouldn't even stop to take a piss if they didn't need to stop for fuel too. That's just the mechanics of the driving. When you look at how much battery would be needed, and how long it would take to charge, nothing less than a total battery swap would do and those batteries would have to be HUGE. That's a lot of dead weight they'd have to carry and those trucks are already built to the legal limits now.
Have you ever had to use cordless tools for an extended period? You'll need three or four batteries for each tool if you want to keep going all day. You'll need one in the tool, and two on the chargers, or you'll be waiting for the batteries to charge. If you're working the tools real hard then you'll need a fourth in the rotation, cooling off before being put on the charger.
Go look up how much energy is stored in a typical long haul truck fuel tanks. Take that same amount of energy and figure out how large of a conductor it would take to carry that energy in a reasonable amount of time. Go ahead and divide by four to account for an ICE being 25% efficient and an electric motor being near 100%, not quite fair since it's more like a three times as efficient, or maybe double, but go with four. That's a lot of electricity.
Even if you take out two drivers switching places on a truck you still have the problems of keeping the batteries charged, and the MASSIVE weight they'd need to be even close to a true long haul truck.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
And the point of those responding you,, is that bringing up the recharge time, as if it were a significant impediment, is faulty, when in practice, it's really not that consequential to a large number of users, perhaps even the vast majority of usage is a resolvable one.
Of course, debates over vehicle spaces abound, so it isn't like those were magically adopted with ease either.
The majority of people don't have garages.
60.3% of US residents live in single family homes.
Whether or not all of these have garages specifically is immaterial, they have a dedicated place to park (and charge) their car.
I'm going to release a battery that can go 500 miles after 2019.
Remember to contact me here, if you don't see it on time.
Never have understood why the batteries can not be modular, allowing me to add more (at the expense of trunk space, backseat, whatever) as I see fit.
Or minivans?
Yeah, it's a European thing.
But estates are far more practical than SUVs, IMO.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Actually, in high density urban areas, it's entirely consequential to most people. It's only inconsequential to most people that live in suburban or rural areas where detached housing is more common.
Typically, well over 50% of people live in apartments or condominiums if they happen to live in a large city. The statistic of 30% of people in the USA live in apartments is an overall statistic, and ironically, the people that would typically benefit the most from an electric vehicle are people who live in such populated areas.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Actually, in high density urban areas, it's entirely consequential to most people.
Read again. A large number of users.
It's only inconsequential to most people that live in suburban or rural areas where detached housing is more common.
So you admit it's not consequential to them. Now is this a large number or not?
Typically, well over 50% of people live in apartments or condominiums if they happen to live in a large city.
If you're going to claim that matters, why not break it down by car owners as well? Then break it down by availability of parking spaces.
Good luck.
The statistic of 30% of people in the USA live in apartments is an overall statistic, and ironically, the people that would typically benefit the most from an electric vehicle are people who live in such populated areas.
They'd also benefit from their parking garages being concentrated. All it takes is a systematic approach.
It's not like I'm just bringing it up now.... I explicitly mentioned high density urban areas right from the very beginning.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
It's not like I'm just bringing it up now.... I explicitly mentioned high density urban areas right from the very beginning.
Again, my question is, so why not break it down by car owners as well? Then break it down by availability of parking spaces.
Now personally, I don't think it matters, there's more than enough people who could easily have a personal charger that it would have a huge impact on its own.
But if you are, then you really should go a bit further in your analysis.
LOL you waste 3 minutes of your trip "filling" up your car. What a daft and outdated concept. My car is just full every time I get to it.
I'm not contesting that point... I was addressing the assumption that one should not need to require a fast fill up as they can get with a gasoline vehicle simply because they could charge their EV overnight, when that assumption is not valid for a significant number of people when they live in the kinds of areas where those with an electric vehicle with limited range would typically benefit the most.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The cost of installing charging sockets is a rounding error compared to the cost of an apartment or condominium. All that is required is demand in the market.
You can just look at the northern cold areas of the US and Canada for an example. Many apartments, hotels and businesses have installed electric sockets at each parking spot so people can plug in their engine heaters. This has been done because of demand for this service. The cost is minimal compared to the cost of the rest of the building. It's usually not even metered.
Once the demand is there, it's cheap and easy to add a socket.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Their milage on their EVs will be like their fuel efficiency fiasco some years ago?
I'm not contesting that point...
Indeed, you are avoiding it, instead. Why? Also, why did you avoid admitting that a large number of people aren't especially concerned with your objection at all?
I was addressing the assumption that one should not need to require a fast fill up as they can get with a gasoline vehicle simply because they could charge their EV overnight, when that assumption is not valid for a significant number of people when they live in the kinds of areas where those with an electric vehicle with limited range would typically benefit the most.
Indeed, that is the argument you're relying on, however, it is simply a tendentious one, and you are just mindlessly repeating it, which serves no great purpose in the discussion, as you are simply waving around a partial statistic that you have failed to properly scrutinize.
You see it is quite significant you have offered no explanation as to why you are not breaking your assumption down by car owners, and availability of parking spaces. Avoiding that issue, makes for a lack of diligence, and calls the validity of your objection into question, since you don't have the necessary particulars, but are simply throwing up a faulty argument that you refuse to admit you have not thoroughly examined in order to actually determine its level of impact.
Such poor methods of argumentation, are exactly the problem you have, and the evasiveness is quite egregious. I suggest you simply refrain, in the future, until you have rigorously examined your statistics to the point where you have meaningful and relevant numbers that accurately reflect the real situation. Bringing up your objection when you don't have this information, and when you refuse to even admit to your lack thereof, merely discredits the argument you might make if you were more intent on proper conduct.
Or I drive my IC car to a gas station, fill up in two minutes, and am back on the road. . . And even though I live in a major metro area. . .there are a grand total of 4 SuperChargers. . .
Logistics is what **currently** makes EVs unsuitable for regular use for most people. . .
Still, you could easily still save time overall since you're not filling up at a station for the rest of the month. And has the potential to be cheaper to fuel, cheaper to service...
The killer problem for me is not the ultimate range, it's that I don't have a garage or a driveway, I can't sensibly run a lead to the street, so that convenience won't work for me either
I work in a city about 30 miles from my home. An electric would work just fine. If I had a place to plug it in.
That's great. If the route you need to take has Tesla superchargers at just the right places. I would love to drive an EV, but I wouldn't take it on a long-haul trip. (To my knowledge, there's not a single supercharger station in my country of residence.)
What's a parking meter? I use an app to pay for parking.
It's just a matter of installing some outlets.
No, it's not.
Glad I could help.
Electric vehicles are most beneficial for city commuters, and not for people in more rural areas, where if they do commute they typically have distances to travel that make the limitations on electric vehicle range impractical. Since high density urban areas typically have a majority of the population living in multiunit dwelling's such as apartments or condominiums. While these people may have available parking they rarely have private garages with full control of the electricity offered to it, and as such unless the building they live in was built with some foresight for this, typically no earlier than within the past 10 years or so, there will rarely be electrical outlets available for the residents of such buildings in the same spaces as where they park.
The statistic of majority of people living in detached homes is accurate, but a majority of people would most benefit from electrical vehicles are not owners of detached homes
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Oh really? What's the complexity, Mr. Wizard?
I don't respond to AC's.
Granted, you need superchargers not far off your path, but they don't need to be at "just the right places" (ie. exactly 482km from your start point, then again 275km from there).
You could start off with your 482 km of range, and after say, 300km stop at a supercharger, add your 275km of range like in the above scenario, leaving you with 457km of range. Then stop again later for 15 minutes adding another 160km.
But I concede that not having them in your country would count as too far off your path. It's just going to be a matter of time before this infrastructure is everywhere.
Be careful of how you quote those numbers. The 60% figure is based on number of homes, not population. And considering that houses - especially detached units - are typically larger than apartments, I would suspect that the total population percentage in those homes is still higher.
[Not that it matters. Of more interest is the vehicle count, not the headcount.]
Also, single family attached homes (e.g., townhouses) in the U.S. typically offer the same parking options as detached homes. Combining the attached and detached categories indicate that around 2/3 of the homes would be covered.
But let's not forget that we're talking U.S. numbers. I suspect that the situation is different "across the pond",
One man's ridiculous is another man's awesome.
I would love to own a Very Light Car... it looks like a landbound spaceship or something. Super cool.
Well you might be one of the half dozen people who buy it. But probably you won't, just like nearly everyone else.
people bought SUVs for their 'active' life styles. A coworker of mine bought one of those huge multi-ton pickups. He's had it for months and it's immaculate. He just drives to work in it and the grocery store.
People don't buy cars for what they do, they buy cars for what they imagine they do.
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