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People Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries To Power Their Homes (vice.com)
New submitter gooddogsgotoheaven writes: DIY Powerwall builders from around the world are harvesting old laptop batteries and turning them into powerful batteries capable of supplying energy to their entire homes. "It's the future. It's clean, simple, efficient and powerful," Jehu Garcia, one of the most popular powerwall builders, told me. He and people like him are deciding for themselves what the future of alternative energy will look like, instead of waiting for technology companies to shape it for them. "The end result is being able to rely on something I not only built myself but understand the ins and outs of to power some or all of my electricity in my home. That is inspiring," Joe Williams, another powerwall builder, told me.
Jesus. Nope, nope, nope. Dying in a fire isn't my preferred way to go.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
But this seems to be a really, really bad idea. Just on the face of it.
"UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
Just asking...
I think there's a huge stash of "almost new" Samsung Galaxy Note 7 batteries that aren't being used now.
I have to turn my chair this way now ( turns away ). Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
Dear Sir/Madam, I am writing to inform you of a fire that has broken out on the premises of 123 Cavendon Road... no, that's too formal.
[deletes text, starts again]
Fire - exclamation mark - fire - exclamation mark - help me - exclamation mark. 123 Cavendon Road. Looking forward to hearing from you. Yours truly, Maurice Moss.
I run my flash lights, USB battery packs, and e-cigarette with 18650 cells salvaged from old laptop batteries. And working in IT gives me an unlimited supply of them.
Of course, like fryer oil, they won't be free once enough people find a use for them.
heh...
Those would probably be perfectly fine for use in a static enclosure.
The problem that caused the fires was related to those battery packs being overflexed due to their size and the limited rigidity of the note 7 case for those size batteries was it not?
They are very power efficient, and also very dangerous:
- Overcharge it too much: boom
- Drain it completely, and then try to charge: boom
- Puncture: boom
- Overheat: boom
- Make your own battery with cells you found around, and not use a good controller: boom, boom, boom
Of course it is possible to use lots of cheap batteries, with a very good controller system. This is what Tesla does for its current cars. However the system needs to monitor each cell and pack, and have safety precautions to disconnect them if them become faulty.
Basically, do not try this at home.
The problem with using laptop batteries is not the batteries, the tesla uses them. The problem is the smart battery circuitry needed to monitor currents and voltages, balance cells, thermally monitor strings (or ideally individual cells), gas gauge, and safely disconnect problem cells from the system. The major advancement in the tesla is the amazing cooling/heating system and the ability to rewire itself to stop using problem cells. Simply wiring up a bank of unmonitored cells is a disaster waiting to happen. The vast majority of home hobbiests lack the knowledge and wherewithal to implement proper battery safety. The packs in the stock photos, if lithium cells, are a disaster in the making. Disclaimer: have designed smart battery circuits for lithium batteries used in actual products.
Unless these people built a cinderblock bunker roofed with a galvanized steel roof (i.e. no wood in the structure at all) and a steel fire rated door that is completely removed from their main residence, the first time one of these Lithium batteries fails thermally, their entire "wall" will likely go up and burn down their house. If they have each battery in a ceramic, isolated cubby outside their house, they are marginally better, but this is definitely not a good way to go about powering your house or living off grid... You are better off building your own lead acid battery array with deep cycle batteries...
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
When I reached out to the laptop manufacturers, both Dell and HP discouraged hobbyists from reusing their batteries. "Dell laptop batteries are designed to be used within Dell-branded products only and we do not recommend or endorse any other use," a spokesperson from Dell told Motherboard in an email.
And they shouldn't. Companies can't dance this legal knife's edge, endorsing alternate battery usage, on the hope that DIYers* know what they are doing and the pinky promise that they or their families won't sue if they get hurt by fucking around with batteries.
*Some DIYers are very competent and understand engineering for safety, and may in fact be engineers. Some DIYers are very enthusiastic idiots.
Most power my home with DIY batteries folks use the Nickel-Iron Battery.
It's not the most efficient battery, but it tolerates abuse (aka DIY stupidity) and usually doesn't explode unless you do something really dumb.
Trying this DIY approach with Lithium batteries?
Let's not and say we did.
Your powerwall might turn into a firewall
...eventually. Either the NIMBY people will get all concerned that "Something might go wrong!" "What if it catches on fire?!" "There's no way that can be environmental or legal!"
OR
The energy companies will lobby to REQUIRE that federal law prohibits re-using the cells from internally sealed battery packs as "They just aren't safe!". They'll cite public battery fires and MSDS listing the "Volatile internal chemicals!" in the batteries that are safely contained UNLESS OPENED.
These power walls are far too easy to convert for solar or wind use so you can be sure they represent a threat to the power companies. You can bet that they will try and squash any attempt to get away from a completely dependent energy system.
"Bah!" - Dogbert
Just get a large amount of lead batteries or something. At least those don't have a tendency to blow up at the slightest thing.
Why spend all that money on expensive solar panels and inverter, then buy used laptop batteries?
Laptop batteries can't even power the laptop after a year or two, so why the hell would you use them to power your house?
Get some big heavy lead acid batteries (that cost less) and power your house with those. The size and weight aren't critical when you have an entire house to store them in. Also, they tend to fail much more safely.
Hopefully they're designing in some cell balancing and safety factors into these things. Though push comes to shove you could simply place you battery pack in an enclosure a short distance from your house. The bigger issue I'd guess would be the longevity of the cells, most laptop batteries are built to some pretty low standards and little if any health management so they tend to burn out quickly. They might cost quite a bit more but the large battery packs currently being made (like the Powerwall, car battery packs, etc) seem to be designed with major emphasis on longevity.
Where are they getting these used laptop batteries that still have life in them?
My experience has been that a typical laptop battery will last about 2 years. 3 if you're will to work in small spurts before hunting down a power outlet. Most are run till the batteries are useless, and then spend a while as a makeshift desktop by constantly being connected to the charger. In a couple cases, the laptop was still useful enough to spring for a replacement battery.
I just don't see where enough recycle-able batteries will come from for this "movement" to ever be anything other than an oddity. With the tedium of:
- connecting hundreds of cells that you've already determined are not new, if not at the end of their usable life
-purchasing or building your own controllers with failsafe features
-replacing cells as they begin dying off
I would think it would make most people opt for buying one of Tesla's products.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
So these guys would rather build their own powerwalls and be left holding their dicks when their house burns down rather than 1) having a giant, deep-pocketed corporation to sue, and 2) actually being able to collect an insurance settlement because they are buying a regulated, tested product?
I get the DIY ethic, but talk about penny wise and pound foolish!
Well now it must be a good thing Zinc batteries are coming along.
bad mod
In a few years, all the thermal issue with lithium batteries are going to be a thing of the past. If not for improved safety then you should at wait because the new batteries are going to cause the price of the preset battery forms to plummet. Before installing this shit, do check with your insurance company to see if they will cover you if a battery fire does burn down your house because when one battery goes, they ALL go.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
If one of the laptop battery is on recall list that's one ticking fuse in your powerwall
From a discussion thread on "Making-use-of-surplus-power-HHO-electrolysis", you'll find this tidbit:
"I think there's more going on with HHO than just plain electrolysis ..... the video above goes into it well .... a totally unknown 'ohmasa gas' is being produced ... it's water , but has a high energy toroidal structure ... when hit by the spark in an ICE it implodes into a 'plasmoid' and accesses zero point energy."
Just get some giant ass 2 volt lead acid batteries. Much safer and longer lasting.
Within 5 years one of these ijits will burn their house down due to lithium failure. bet.
i would switch to 12 volt DC and use automotive electronics, like a car stereo for entertainment, lights meant for a camper motor home, just use coleman multi-fuel stove, no refrigerator, just keep my food storage as canned goods and dry goods
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
The giant battery system will be able to store 1 megawatt of power—1000 kWh
I... don't even know what to do with that sentence. Watts are not equivalent to kilowatt-hours.
Sounds good. Those things never explode, right?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
The battery in my laptop lasts only a few years before it's basically a brick. And they are using used batteries to build this thing?
I was holding onto a bunch of old laptop batteries for that once in a decade trip to the local dump to drop off hazardous waste. Now that I know there's a market for them I'll just sell them all on eBay.
I've got probably a 5 gallon buckets worth of bad laptop batteries i've yet to come up with a good use for them.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
City codes, safety and fire inspections. EPA for hazard waste etc. Liability insurance cover?
I have a better idea. Let's get a hundred hamsters, and put them into a hundred wheels. Or maybe rats, as they are stronger. We can harvest rats in large cities and feed them with refuse. Wheels will provide with electricity whole houses, maybe even hospitals and schools! And it's clean, simple, efficient and powerful! It's natural, organic synergy! Where should I apply for a patent? Although I recall this idea was already featured in one of the Gummi Bears episodes, but this time it's for real!
Looks like it'll take more than $3000 worth of work - time and materials - to make this a reasonable endeavor.
However, more power to those that indulge! (pun intended!).
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
Pleas stop saying "supplying energy". Gas and coal are something that "supplies energy". Batteries store and release energy. (unless you're burning them and turning that heat into energy I suppose)
You still have to charge them, storage isn't anything very incredible here. And old batteries can be pretty wasteful at that too. The manufacturers don't make the packs easy to take apart and separate the cells, and most of those packs have one or more cells that are performing much worse (or not at all) compared to the rest in the pack. You can't just chain together different grades of cells without introducing big performance hits, where you turn a lot of power into heat during charge and discharge due to the imbalance or bad cells in the string. If you want anywhere near decent performance you're going to have to tear the packs apart, separate the cells, test them, and group them together by current performance.
And when you compare the storage capacity of these packs with say, the capacity you can get from a used battery at a junkyard, they immediately reveal themselves to be a very bad investment of your money and time. The only advantage laptop packs have right now is they're often free because large users (like schools and businesses) find it difficult to get anything for them and end up giving them away when they pull the bad ones to replace them with new. (or replace them on a rotating schedule, which increases your chances of getting a pack that's still got some decent cells in it) Schools are less likely to rotate out on schedule because they are more careful with their spending. Businesses are much more likely to swap out batteries on some sort of a schedule where batteries that are still mostly useful are being pulled out of use. The school I work at only throws batteries in the "battery recycle box" when they have dropped below 1/2 of original capacity. (and often only get noticed when they have failed completely or nearly completely, indicating a totally open cell or several failing cells at the very least)
Comare the storage capacity of a new car battery and a new laptop battery. An average car battery is around 45 amp hours, which is a bit under 550 watt hours, which is what most laptop batteries are rate in. And the average laptop battery capacity is around 50WH, which is less than 1/10th that of a car battery. Now look at a typical used car battery you'd get at a junkyard for around $20. It won't have any bad cells either. (they won't bother trying to sell one that does because it won't start a car reliably with one or two dead cells dropping it to 8 or 10 volts) Then there's all the work involved in tearing apart old laptop packs, testing and matching cells, stringing them back together, setting up balanced charging... you'll quickly reach the $20/battery price point in supplies and added gear you could have spent at the junkyard. There's simply no chance of it possibly being worth it unless you think your time is free, and even then it just approaches break-even with lead acid, so you're just wasting your time. I don't consider my time free. Maybe if you're retired or something and looking for a hobby I suppose?
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
People are using their pets faeces to heat their houses.
i couldnt put a windmill in the yard because its "a hazard" ... using solar panels without passing it through the grid ( read 21% tax plus use and transfer costs and what not) is illegal and producing enough to store makes you technically "a provider" so thats also illegal unless you get a license which costs SO much you couldnt possibly produce enough from one home to make that viable
and people always lol like you exaggerate and me like "well come live here then"
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?