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Apple Puts Brakes on Self-driving Car Project, Report Says (theguardian.com)

Apple is following the road taken by Waymo, the autonomous vehicle subsidiary of Google-parent Alphabet, and downshifting on its still-unannounced self-driving car project, according to a report in the New York Times. From a report: The company has been working on its automotive technology under the internal code name "Project Titan" since at least 2014, and once intended to build its own vehicle from start to finish, creating a true "Apple Car." Now it's put the car-building side of the project on hold, perhaps indefinitely, as it instead focuses on creating and perfecting the software and hardware necessary to get a self-driving car on the streets. Apple is now planning on working with other car-makers to get its self-driving tech into the garages and driveways of customers, according to the paper. One upcoming example of that collaboration: an autonomous shuttle service that will ferry employees back and forth between the company's Silicon Valley offices in Palo Alto and Cupertino. That project, which will use conventional cars with self-driving kit bolted on, is known as "Pail", standing for Palo Alto to Infinite Loop, the street address of the company's main campus. The name highlights the delays in the project, since Apple's main campus is already in the process of being moved to Apple Park, an enormous ring-shaped office down the road.

49 of 78 comments (clear)

  1. So they finally realized they went too far? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's what you get when you remove and remove features, at one point you might remove one that is crucial.

    In the name of pedestrians everywhere, thanks for putting the brakes back onto your damn cars!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:So they finally realized they went too far? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It took a lot of courage to be driven around in a car without brakes. Too much for even Apple!

    2. Re:So they finally realized they went too far? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Ha, you all are barking up the wrong tree. The REAL reason that Apple is dropping the self driving car concept is because they've jumped completely over the box-on-wheels concept and are working on ...

      A teleporter.

      Let Google suck on that one for a while.

      You heard it hear first.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:So they finally realized they went too far? by OffTheLip · · Score: 1

      At least they still advocate downshifting . Slow stop is better than none I suppose.

    4. Re:So they finally realized they went too far? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Actually, Apple would be better off if the FIXED THE GOD DAMNED AUTO-CORRECT. /hear/here

      Geez.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:So they finally realized they went too far? by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      or an immediate stop

      --
      Nullius in verba
    6. Re:So they finally realized they went too far? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      In the name of pedestrians everywhere, thanks for putting the brakes back onto your damn cars!

      Weren't they basically required to keep that stuff if they wanted to get permission to operate on public roads in more than a couple of states? Anyway, Apple can burn money from now until forever and still have more of it than they need. No one in the industry really took the idea that Apple would build their own cars seriously — everyone assumed that if they "built" Apple-logo'd cars any time soon, they'd be built by a contract manufacturer.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:So they finally realized they went too far? by denzacar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Knowing Apple's penchant for blowing things out of proportion when labeling them teleporter would turn out to be a 4K TV.
      With round edges, a single USB port, a single proprietary port yet to be announced - and a high definition camera so you can "teleport" into other people's homes.
      White version will cost extra.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    8. Re: So they finally realized they went too far? by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      No, they'll be white sneakers starting at $599. "Teleporting you wherever you need to go".

    9. Re: So they finally realized they went too far? by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Rounded. Rounded white sneakers.
      Gotta keep that fetish of a dead obsessive-compulsive guy alive.
      It's necessary in order for others to reach the mid-level earth sprite or Bhummadeva belonging to the Vidyadhara-Yakkha branch, through his example.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  2. Next Apple project - flailing around by sinij · · Score: 1

    Next Apple project - flailing around and reheating Job's leftover ideas. They need someone with vision or accept that they are a commodity supplier.

  3. Smart move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    there are about 10 companies ahead of them in the race. They got put back in their box.

    1. Re:Smart move by mjwx · · Score: 1

      there are about 10 companies ahead of them in the race. They got put back in their box.

      More like they realised just how much technology they'd need to pay for to make a car AND how much technology they'd need to share.

      There are a lot of patents and technology sharing agreements in the auto industry. Apple are well known for not paying license fees and not sharing their toys.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  4. Palo Alto.... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    The only Apple location that I know about in Palo Alto is the Apple Store. Although the Palo Alto Apple Store is the flagship store, I find it confusing as to why Apple needs a self-driving shuttle to take employees from the Cupertino campuses to Palo Alto. Between the Infinite Loop and the Mothership campuses in Cupertino, sure. But not Palo Alto.

  5. a car with lights that cost $30 each dealer only s by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    a car with lights that cost $30 each dealer only service failed in the test marketing group.

  6. we need a criminal case with a hard ass judge by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    We need a criminal case with hard ass judge like the one from my cousin vinny. That will jail people for contempt of court if they try to delay Bickering among groups / sub contractor / contractors.

    Also if they try to hide under an NDA / EULA / etc.

  7. Apple puts brakes? by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    And here I thought self-driving cars braked themselves.

  8. EcoSystem Integration by mede · · Score: 1

    Unbelievable how they don't get that the vertical integration of the iOS architecture (hardware + software + services) is what makes them stand out with the grand majority of users (not talking about technologists and hobbyists, but mom, pops and most users)

    Windows will never have that while catering to multiple hardware vendors
    Android will never have that while catering to multiple hardware vendors

    As far as I can tell Tesla is the only one doing the all-around solution approach, while others are going with accesorizing other's cars..

    Incredible how that single factor being key in their success so far, doesn't make them go all the way in Cars as well. It's not that they don't have the money.. Not saying it's easy!! But come fucking on..! Take big obstacles HEAD ON, damn it!!

    1. Re:EcoSystem Integration by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Apple realized they're a tech company, not a car company. Vertical integration in your own field works great, in someone else's field where you don't know much it's putting the cart before the horse.

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      This space intentionally left blank
    2. Re: EcoSystem Integration by mede · · Score: 1

      Exactly. You don't have to reinvent the wheel here. You can consider options such a well executed JV, buying out an existing player (I like Mazda, for what they've been achieving so far).
      What I feel is that they're just going the least resistant path and trying to "conquer the whole autonomous vehicle market" through an add-on service, whereas they've always before been into luxurious well designed experience goods which they can mark-up accordingly.. I really don't think you can provide a full experience without controlling the whole product. Software is only a part of if.
      I just feel this derives from the differences in Cook's vs. Jobs' visions and mindsets..

  9. Smart Enough to know a bad idea by boudie2 · · Score: 2

    More and more people are coming to the conclusion that the "self driving" or autonomous car is still many years in the future. It's like the flying car. What if something goes wrong? You're f#@ked.

    1. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      People seem to think autonomous vehicles need to have a near-zero accident rate before they're an acceptable alternative to human-driven cars - which really doesn't make much sense.

      Something already "goes wrong" - very wrong - with human-driven cars at the rate of greater than 30,000 times a year, just in the United States.

      It seems likely that autonomous cars could lower that number significantly.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's a bad idea on it's own but the car market is very low profit/commodity driven. Nobody gives a shit who wrote the software as long as it works.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    3. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think it's in the middle. They need to be A LOT better than they are now if it's going to be where you don't need a license to operate one. Just hop in and sleep or jack-off for for your 30 min trip.

      The biggest problem that I see if getting someone's attention when the driver needs to take over. That and weather. I live on an unpaved road in the northern Michigan. Six months of the year is avoiding potholes. The other six months I can't see the road.

    4. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by jbengt · · Score: 1

      I live on an unpaved road in the northern Michigan. Six months of the year is avoiding potholes. The other six months I can't see the road.

      I know the feeling. I live on a (barely) paved road in northern Illinois. And there have been times when I've welcomed the winter snow because it filled the potholes.

    5. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by phantomfive · · Score: 3
      Autonomous cars need to be at SAE level 4 (otherwise they are not autonomous). Currently self-driving technology is at SAE level 3, which means a human has to be constantly ready to take over. It looks like we're going to need actual algorithmic advances before a car can reach SAE level 4.

      It seems likely that autonomous cars could lower that number significantly.

      This is definitely true, but getting to SAE level 4 is required. At SAE level 3, the driver needs to sit there babysitting the vehicle, which is a worse user experience than actually driving yourself.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by bws111 · · Score: 1

      The problem with that thinking is that while there are statistics on how many times a human driver 'got it wrong', there are NO statistics on how many times a human driver encountered a situation and got it RIGHT. How many times have you been instructed to drive on the 'wrong' side of the road by a construction worker, emergency personel, etc? Did you know what to do? Did you know what to do even if he did not have some special equipment? How many times has bad weather caused you to do something unusual? How many times have you driven on a road that has stripes from brining, and have not been completely baffled like my lane assist is (no, I do not want to turn into the highway dept garage just because the salt truck did)? How many times has your GPS given you directions that are obviously wrong (like using someone's driveway as a road)?

    7. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by boudie2 · · Score: 1

      Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. In perhaps 5 or 10 or 20 years. There is an autonomous motorcycle built by Yamaha on youtube that's very impressive. It's a very complex problem. And I for one don't wish to be a guinea pig or "take my chances" with one. Good luck with yours if you get one.

    8. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Cruise control is better than maintaining a set speed yourself. It's a bore to act as a feedback device for a couple of hours looking at the speedo a couple of times a minute and adjusting your foot pressure to adapt.

      Adaptive cruise control is better than being in heavy traffic and cycling through speeding up, slowing down and stopping ensuring that you don't run into the car in front, and yet not leaving such a big gap that people keep cutting in front of you.

      Why wouldn't having the car do the steering too not be better? Tesla drivers certainly like it.

      I'd much rather the car did the driving chore for me, even it I have to watch it. It's certain a better experience for me. And one I'll pay extra for when it comes within by budget.

    9. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by bws111 · · Score: 2

      Cruise control relieves you of one task. You are still driving the car. Having the car do everything is much worse, I think, because now you have nothing to do but sit there and watch. You can't perform any other tasks like you could if you were a passenger, and you aren't occupying yourself doing anything except sitting their waiting for the computer to screw up.

    10. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      The problem with that is that people don't think anything is ever going to go wrong when they get into a manually driven car, but automation in reality will have to be much safer than a human driver for people to adopt them. I recently got a vehicle with an adaptive cruise control, and I have had many comments that I am crazy to put my trust in even that.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    11. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Correction: We need SAE level 4 AND a guarantee from the car company that they will take full responsibility for any and all damages made by the car.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    12. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      The initial adoption is going to be by commercial operations - specifically trucking and other delivery services. They are only motivated by the bottom line and legal restrictions.

      And the adoption by trucking companies has already started. Automated long distance trucking (with remote drone driving to take over on surface streets at the beginning and end) is already hitting the roads.

      The cost advantages of automated trucking is staggering. Not only is the cost of the driver eliminated, but the truck can be kept on the road 24/7, and the truck can be operated in the most cost efficient manner. Is fuel the pain point? Drive slowly. Is it the delivery time? Drive faster. Human drivers do not optimize like this.

      The cost advantage is something like 3-to-1. This is so large that any company that does not adopt it as soon as competitors do will immediately go out of business. It will not be optional.

      A nice historical analogy is the introduction of the spinning mule in cotton spinning in England in 1779. The introduction of the spinning jenny had already enormously increased the productivity of the home spinner several fold and led to a huge cotton spinning industry in the countryside. But the factory-based spinning mule was so much more efficient that the entire spinning jenny industry was put out of business in only 8 years (by 1787).

      Once commercial automated vehicles have replaced human drivers, the adoption of automated cars will seem much less revolutionary (and the commercial operators will have killed legions of snakes to perfect the whole technology).

      This is going to happen. Look for the collapse of the trucking employment to start within the next decade, and it will probably be as fast in going to completion as the destruction of the spinning jenny.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    13. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It's too hard to focus on driving when you don't have to drive.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    14. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by mjwx · · Score: 1

      People seem to think autonomous vehicles need to have a near-zero accident rate before they're an acceptable alternative to human-driven cars - which really doesn't make much sense.

      Something already "goes wrong" - very wrong - with human-driven cars at the rate of greater than 30,000 times a year, just in the United States.

      It seems likely that autonomous cars could lower that number significantly.

      Using the US is a terrible example, you have approximately 12 deaths per 100,000 pop. Humans are much better than this, the UK has around 3 deaths per 100,000 pop. So autonomous cars will need to be better than that.

      The problem you have is that no autonomous car has been demonstrated to be better than a human. They've all be tested with humans at the wheel. In fact, Google's autonomus car caused an accident when both the car and human made a mistake (which was pretty fecking obvious to someone who drives in the UK, a bus is not going to stop for you pulling out of a parking space). The only reason Google's car has such a good rating is because it has a full time driver paying attention, note Google have not released any information over how often the driver has had to correct the car.

      So realistically all you can say is that the car and driver working together is better than a driver on it's own. I'm still yet to see evidence that an autonomous car is better than a defensive driver and I doubt we'll see that for a while because a defensive driver predicts hazards where as autonomous cars react to them. With this in mind, we should be training drivers to be better drivers, not coddling them with technologies that make them lazier.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    15. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

      Are there any statistics that demonstrate that cruise control, of any sort, improves safety? Or is it just a convenience?

    16. Re:Smart Enough to know a bad idea by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      It will happen until an automated truck causes massive deaths, then it will stop.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  10. Strikes me as having parallels with 'Apple TV' by bfwebster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Remember that for quite some time, the rumor was that Apple was going to release its own line of TV sets. Many people (including myself) thought that was a stupid idea, since it would put Apple into the TV manufacturing business, which is pretty cutthroat.

    I think the same problems occur with the concept of Apple building its own self-driving car, except that car manufacturing is far more complex, capital-intensive, and labor-intensive than building TV sets, while still being just as cutthroat (note that US car mfgrs are dealing with slowing sales and mounting inventory). So, Apple's move is, generally speaking, a sane one.

    On the other hand, Apple has largely blown its approach to the actual Apple TV to date (I own two and am a fan, but I love my Echo and Dot more), so who knows what it will achieve on the automotive front.

    --
    Bruce F. Webster (brucefwebster.com)
    1. Re:Strikes me as having parallels with 'Apple TV' by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I think the same problems occur with the concept of Apple building its own self-driving car, except that car manufacturing is far more complex, capital-intensive, and labor-intensive than building TV sets, while still being just as cutthroat (note that US car mfgrs are dealing with slowing sales and mounting inventory). So, Apple's move is, generally speaking, a sane one.

      So? Self-driving cars would be a totally disruptive shift in what people care about in a car. Kinda like the iPhone made people care about entirely other things than what they wanted from a phone before. You're not driving. You're don't care about any of the performance or functionality or experience related to driving, even though those in the passenger seat and back seat got heard I'd say the vast majority of purchases are currently decided by the person in the driver's seat. If Apple could give you a car you'd rather be a passenger in than the "traditional" car companies, that would be a winner.

      Of course, the technology for a self-driving car has to exist first. I don't see Apple developing that, but I could see them licensing it and building an iCar that's all about the "travel experience". At least that's what I feel they did with the iPod, iPhone and iPad.... the products more or less already existed but Steve Jobs made people want to use them. I suspect that a generic consumer car that actually works on most roads in most conditions is quite far off though, the first ones will probably be taxis operating in a well mapped and marked downtown area or long-haul goods traffic on fixed routes. It seems getting all the edge cases worked out is pretty hard...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Strikes me as having parallels with 'Apple TV' by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Why would Apple have any sort of advantage at all over engineers working on the same problem in the industry?

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    3. Re:Strikes me as having parallels with 'Apple TV' by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Remember that for quite some time, the rumor was that Apple was going to release its own line of TV sets. Many people (including myself) thought that was a stupid idea, since it would put Apple into the TV manufacturing business, which is pretty cutthroat.

      I think the same problems occur with the concept of Apple building its own self-driving car, except that car manufacturing is far more complex, capital-intensive, and labor-intensive than building TV sets, while still being just as cutthroat (note that US car mfgrs are dealing with slowing sales and mounting inventory). So, Apple's move is, generally speaking, a sane one.

      #

      This is more like Apple realising that they know nothing about building cars. I can imagine the Apple car to be crappier than a Nissan leaf but costing more than a top of the range C-Class.

      On the other hand, Apple has largely blown its approach to the actual Apple TV to date (I own two and am a fan, but I love my Echo and Dot more), so who knows what it will achieve on the automotive front.

      Not much really. The Apple TV really did nothing for the entertainment industry. The same with their car audio products, floundering on a competitive market.

      I recently bought a new 240i, In order to get Apple CarPlay that gives me the same functionality as ordinary bluetooth on non-Apple phones I had to get a £300 options. I said no, the same as I said no to the parking sensors, lane departure warning, touch screens and all the other crap I didn't need.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  11. Smart move. by NMBob · · Score: 1

    They've decided to only run over their own employees during the testing/learning phase.

  12. Apple switched Titan to software only a YEAR AGO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is not news.

  13. Re:a car with lights that cost $30 each dealer onl by slew · · Score: 1

    a car with lights that cost $30 each dealer only service failed in the test marketing group.

    Maybe they realized the problem with the upgrade to a new model every 2 years and discard/hand-down hardware demand model...
    You can't hand down a car to anyone less than 16yo, and anyone above that age wants the new model not the old one....

    Now on to business Plan B.

  14. Re:The company is dead then by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    Sell Apple. You were foolish not to when he died

    Steve Jobs died October 5, 2011. Just before that, AAPL was at $57.83/share, which is the lowest that it's been since then, aside from a small dip in the weeks immediately after his death. It's now at a bit over $159/share. That's around a 16% annual return on investment. What did you buy when you sold your AAPL shares that gave you a better return?

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  15. the apple only changeing cable with $200+ 120V cab by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    the apple only changing cables with an $200+ 120V outlet cable was to far and in the past when alienware tried an $50 add on for an better desktop power cable

  16. Because manufacuring is hard by stabiesoft · · Score: 1

    Apple does not make its own phone, laptops or anything else as far as I know. All contract manufacturing. Even car companies outsource a large fraction of cars. Manufacturing is also not nearly as profitable as software. Making one more is not sending another copy of the sw via the internet.

  17. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  18. Re:The company is dead then by dgatwood · · Score: 1

    Or if you want something a little safer (non-tech) but still growing much faster than AAPL, try MA (MasterCard). On Oct. 7, 2011, it closed at $31.15. Since then, it has grown by a factor of 4.28, while AAPL has grown by only a factor of 2.74. So if you invested the same amount of money on October 7, 2011 in both stocks and sold them today, you would have gained almost twice as much with MA as AAPL.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.