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Following Cheating Scandals, Harvard Dean of Undergrad Ed Visits CS50 Class and Tells Students Not To Cheat (thecrimson.com)

theodp writes: After a flood of cheating cases roiled Harvard's Computer Science 50: "Introduction to Computer Science I" last year, Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay Harris implored students in the course not to cheat on assignments at an orientation session Wednesday night. Course head David Malan, the Harvard Crimson reports, spent the last five minutes of the orientation session fielding questions from students confused about the course's collaboration policy and whether or not CS50 enrollees are allowed to use code found online. He told them never to Google solutions, and never to borrow a friend's work. Last week, CS50 students were informed via a CS50 FAQ that they are also now "encouraged" to physically attend the course's taped weekly lectures. In an essay last year, Prof. Malan had questioned the value of saying everyone should attend every lecture. Attendance is now also expected at every discussion section until the first mid-semester exam. In case you're curious, the estimated sticker price for attending Harvard College during the 2017-2018 school year is $69,600-$73,600 (health insurance sold separately).

107 comments

  1. Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just seems like a really expensive degree that doesn't mean much in the world of programming.

    1. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was my thought - you can get a CS degree at any state school and they are far cheaper and just as good. It's not as if the faculty at Harvard are somehow better - given that people are cheating I'd say they are worse.

      What a ridiculous waste of money. I don't think I would ever hire someone who went to Harvard - they wouldn't top my list of people who are practical.

    2. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Harvard does actually have a very well regarded CS program, and it's wishful thinking that you can get as good at any state school. I recently worked with someone just out of Harvard CS who was phenomenal, and he actually explained to me that CS50 is not actually part of the Comp Sci program, it's a programming class for non-CS (hence being sub-100 level).

    3. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you can get a CS degree at any state school and they are far cheaper and just as good.

      No, they are not just as good. A degree from Harvard will open a lot of doors. Not only because of the reputation, but also because of the alumni network.

      It's not as if the faculty at Harvard are somehow better

      It is not the faculty that is better, or the instruction, but the classmates. They learn a lot from each other. Which is why the restrictions on "collaboration" are so stupid. They are taking away the very thing that makes Harvard special.

    4. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by epyT-R · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, they are not just as good. A degree from Harvard will open a lot of doors. Not only because of the reputation, but also because of the alumni network.

      So it's an expensive popularity contest. He was talking about the quality of education.

    5. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's probably more like Harvard only accepting the brightest for STEM majors, so everyone that graduates is already bright. However, I find it hard to believe that person could have gone to a school half the cost and not been just as successful.

    6. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      CS50 is also available for free on edX. Malan is actually a pretty engaging lecturer as well.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    7. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is not the faculty that is better, or the instruction, but the classmates. They learn a lot from each other.

      They are calling out Googling the answers which suggests that their assignments are too simple. Though if it is sufficiently complex that you can cobble together a solution (i.e. build a system) from various different answers to specific problems by googling them then that would be representative of the real world.

      Which is why the restrictions on "collaboration" are so stupid.

      If it's true collaboration then sure, but at the other end if it's 3 people just copying the answers of the one smart person then that just means 75% of your graduates have just learned how to leech of others. Collaborate on business opportunities sure but if you can't get through intro to CS on your own then you're heading for the wrong industry.

    8. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      But he shouldn't have been. He started out talking about the quality of the degree, then shifted.

    9. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So it's an expensive popularity contest.

      No. It is an expensive filtering contest, that has little to do with "popularity". To get into Harvard, you need high SAT scores, a near perfect GPA, all the right extracurriculars, etc. People hire Harvard grads, not because they were educated by Harvard, but because they were accepted by Harvard.

      He was talking about the quality of education.

      The quality of education is not the same as the quality of lectures. If you are in study group with Harvard classmates all at the 99th percentile, you are going to learn a lot more than you will in a study group at Iowa State with classmates that got a 1200 on their SAT.

    10. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a very hard time believing that. I can't speak to the quality of Harvard's education because I've never stepped foot in the place, but I've met a few people who went to those so-called 'elite schools.' They didn't seem any better or worse than those of us who could not afford the feeder schools, extracurricular activities, and other elements of institutionalized classism. The only difference I could tell was that they had nicer clothes and more expensive hobbies. Pardon me if I am highly skeptical of the claim that there's anything special going on there beyond networking and brand recognition, but I for one would much rather work with an Iowa State grad than someone from Harvard. At least I know which one has the ability to justly earn their position.

    11. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To get into Harvard, you need high SAT scores, a near perfect GPA, all the right extracurriculars, etc

      and the best part of a quarter of a million dollars. I wonder which of those requirements is most important?

    12. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by stealth_finger · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, they are not just as good. A degree from Harvard will open a lot of doors. Not only because of the reputation, but also because of the alumni network.

      So it's an expensive popularity contest. He was talking about the quality of education.

      Dunno about most people but when I hear Harvard I think rich, not smart.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    13. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Harvard does actually have a very well regarded CS program, and it's wishful thinking that you can get as good at any state school.

      It's one of the better programs, especially if you're a mathy type and more theoretically inclined.

      I recently worked with someone just out of Harvard CS who was phenomenal, and he actually explained to me that CS50 is not actually part of the Comp Sci program, it's a programming class for non-CS (hence being sub-100 level).

      I have a hard time believing a Harvard student would know so little about Harvard. In general sub-100 level classes are aimed at undergrads (and unless you're some savant, yes you'll take a few of these in your major field), 100 level is undergrad and some grad students, and 200 level is mostly grad students. And to fulfill the CS major requirements you need to take at least two classes among CS 50, 51, and 61, so no CS50 is absolutely not a programming class just for non-CS students. With crazy 500+ student enrollments lately though it does get taken by a lot of non-CS majors who want to see what all the fuss is about.

    14. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignore Bill, he's insane.

    15. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think I would ever hire someone who went to Harvard - they wouldn't top my list of people who are practical.

      Nice nebulous criterion. Can you say "sour grapes"?

    16. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when I hear "stealth finger" I think molester on public transportation, not rich nor smart :)

    17. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excepting Berkeley of course. And maybe Michigan and Maryland.

    18. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. Keep smoking that pipe while India students takes those expensive cheating Harvard jobs.

    19. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really.

      The post author may have generalized and said "degree" but the writing makes it fairly clear that he's referring to the quality of education (e.g., referencing the quality of the professors implies the curriculum and teaching).

      Nice pivot attempt though. Perhaps pivoting is the kind of stuff they teach at Harvard that adds value to the degree. Teehee.

    20. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Resources and networking should be included in quality of education. Imho

    21. Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Resources and networking should be included in quality of education. Imho

      Err no. It is related a result of attending, not the quality of education. The school has existed for a very long time and many important people in the country attended the school. As a result, it is a very well-known school; besides, you could brag about going to the same school as <put_in_important_people_names>. The only good thing for attending the program at Harvard nowadays is the school reputation, not the quality of the program. As a result, you get the networking (alumni + school reputation) to get you somewhere instead of what you actually learned from the program or the quality of the program itself.

    22. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not the faculty that is better, or the instruction, but the classmates. They learn a lot from each other. Which is why the restrictions on "collaboration" are so stupid.

      Yes, I think if you told students in a philosophy, english, or any other type of class they couldn't discuss an assignment outside of class or else it would be considered cheating that would go over about as well.

      The measure of cheating for papers or other assignments in other disciplines is citation and attribution of source material. Otherwise what we are talking about are tests. Tests are a different beast. If these are tests rather than learning assignments then I think you are going to need another set of assignments that are there for learning rather than for testing.

      It is a mistake on the part of the University to confuse the two. There could be a combination of the two, but expecting students to have mastered the material first without collaboration or outside reference materials is extremely poor course structure. Learning assignments first, then testing... in that order.

      Collaboration and looking for solutions to common problems online should be an important part of any meaningful course.

    23. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheating at my Uni will have you end up with a life-time ban from the entire State Uni system.

    24. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Drethon · · Score: 1

      you can get a CS degree at any state school and they are far cheaper and just as good.

      No, they are not just as good. A degree from Harvard will open a lot of doors. Not only because of the reputation, but also because of the alumni network.

      It's not as if the faculty at Harvard are somehow better

      It is not the faculty that is better, or the instruction, but the classmates. They learn a lot from each other. Which is why the restrictions on "collaboration" are so stupid. They are taking away the very thing that makes Harvard special.

      And yet my degree from my local state college has kept me well employed at one of the top engineering firms in the country. It only cost me ~$20k which I paid off in the first year of employment. This same degree gave me entrance to start PHD work at one of the top colleges in the country and they only require me to take two additional classes, the rest I gained credit from my graduate studies at the same state college.

        So yeah, state college is no good.

    25. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what your saying is your just buying friends and not actually learning anything at harvard? Might as well just bribe your way into a company for 100,000 rather than waste 4 year of life on a degree.

    26. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      It is not the faculty that is better, or the instruction, but the classmates. They learn a lot from each other. Which is why the restrictions on "collaboration" are so stupid. They are taking away the very thing that makes Harvard special.

      ...not to mention that nobody these days is looking to hire programmers to work solo projects. Collaboration is central to the job. I can remember during job interviews a lot of people were only interested in what my grade in the Software Engineering course was, and details about how my group project for that class went.

      It was really weird being in that class because suddenly we were *supposed* to work together, and everyone (in my group at least) was absolutely terrible at it. Not only had we never done it before, but the entire culture of the university discouraged it.

      I can still remember being flabbergasted after screwing up the 7th manual merge or so when my TA told me about this program the server had that did something called "Revision Control". This wasn't even being taught!

    27. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      You're getting the stealth finger right now buddy.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    28. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      George W. Bush is an excellent example. I've heard him accused of many things, being smart is not one of them.

    29. Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beat Iowa! WOOT!

  2. Are we in India, Toto? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What. The. Fuck! Charles!

  3. Fuck post. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shit! It's not first ! Oh wait, it is ! Oh no, it isn't Oh who the fuck cares.

  4. Well, that solves that! by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem was that nobody told the students not to cheat. Now that that little misunderstanding has been cleared up, the problem is fixed.

    --

    How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    1. Re:Well, that solves that! by bobbied · · Score: 0

      Next they will pas a law to make it illegal... Yea, that will fix it! See how well it works in Chicago on the gun problem.

      I don't get it, so are they going to take attendance now at Harvard? Proctor tests better? Start an automated scan of all the project source code to keep people from googling the answers? Yea, that's going to help.

      Personally, I figure the idiots that cheat on their first CS course are going to get washed out of the program eventually. Where I'm not going to help you cheat, as a student, I don't care all that much. The point of school is to learn something and that takes work, if you don't want to learn, you won't be a problem for me.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Well, that solves that! by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      But did they tell the students that using Google was cheating in the first place. I could see it happening all in innocence.

    3. Re:Well, that solves that! by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Next they will pas a law to make it illegal... Yea, that will fix it! See how well it works in Chicago on the gun problem.

      Chicago bullshit aside for a moment, the true crime here is charging that fucking much for a degree that you can Google your way through.

    4. Re:Well, that solves that! by infolation · · Score: 2

      He told them never to Google solutions

      To me the Google issue is part of a deeper problem with learning and information-retention in a search-engine-driven world.

      As a child, when I didn't understand a word or concept, my parents would never provide the verbal definition; we had to fetch the thick dictionary or encyclopedia and look it up ourselves. Later on they told us the effort needed to look things up helped us remember the new words, historical events etc.

      Nowadays it seems a person's brain intrinsically knows it doesn't need to remember things or work things out for itself. At a subconcious level, the brain knows it can find the solution to the problem at hand by googling, instead of 'reading around the subject' until it finds the full information needed to work the answer out. I really believe this impedes retention.

      No matter how much you want to remember things or work things out yourself, your brain somehow knows it doesn't have to.

    5. Re:Well, that solves that! by jandersen · · Score: 2

      The problem was that nobody told the students not to cheat. Now that that little misunderstanding has been cleared up, the problem is fixed.

      The problem with cheating is one of what is perceived as socially acceptable, and it isn't limited to cheating with your education. It is the same mechanism that lies behind, say, binge drinking amongst teenagers in UK, low level tax evasion in Denmark, social benefits fraud, using your mobile while driving, corruption etc etc: it has somehow become socially acceptable - "everybody" is doing it. People have somehow persuaded themselves that it doesn't cause real problems, and to address it, somebody has to start telling people that it is not actually acceptable because it does cause real harm.

      In the case of exam fraud, the cheater may benefit in the short term, but if it becomes commonplace, then the profession as a whole suffers, and the industries that rely on employing genuinely competent, highly educated people get into trouble. At the moment, Indian university degrees are considered with some skepticism - but the same can happen to American degrees. Basically, it is about trust: it takes surprisingly little effort to break, and it is very hard work to rebuild it.

    6. Re:Well, that solves that! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Just asking people to behave and reminding them of the consequences of cheating does actually work. It won't stop 100% of cheating but it will reduce it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Well, that solves that! by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      I know. Back when I was getting my degree, I called up the vendor for information on their products because it was exactly what I would be doing on the job. My classmates couldn't figure this step out.

    8. Re:Well, that solves that! by bungo · · Score: 1

      You studied actual products produced by vendors in your degree? What did you study? Or wasn't this at a university? Not everyone can work out how to contact the producer of what they are studying.

      Well, I suppose I could have found out Knuth's number if I'd really tried.

      Getting in touch with Newton would have been a bit more tricky.

      --
      "The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
    9. Re:Well, that solves that! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and maybe someone needs to tell their parents the same thing
      Maybe then, we might see a few less cases of RAMPANT FRAUD by major Corporations in the news each week

    10. Re:Well, that solves that! by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I won't argue that... My kids are attending UTD here in Dallas for 1/10th that cost (or less, depending on scholarships) and getting a degree that isn't from Harvard but is from a well respected school. I cannot see how it's worth paying Harvard, or any of the ivy league schools price. But I'm just the first college graduate from a farming family in the Midwest who didn't inherit a trust fund to live on all my life working as a software engineer, so what do I know?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    11. Re:Well, that solves that! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your kids were admitted to Harvard then they'd be awarded scholarships. They could have entered the ruling class lording over some team of engineers with their harvard business degree... or spent their days doodling for 6 figures on an esteemed visual arts degree.

      But you let them down. Good job dad.

    12. Re:Well, that solves that! by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      right, because admissions is tied to having enough money to come. Rich people are more likely to get in and getting in if you're not rich requires an exceptional application.

    13. Re:Well, that solves that! by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      The problem was that nobody told the students not to cheat. Now that that little misunderstanding has been cleared up, the problem is fixed.

      The problem is that the corporations that many of these students will end up working for rely on various kinds of cheating as vital components of their business models. "Do as I say, not as I do" just doesn't fly, and for good reason.

      As for the admonition not to "Google solutions", does the dean not understand that these students will be doing just that when they enter the workforce?

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  5. How I do it by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Right now, I'm teaching a Web Programming & Database integration course. I do a flipped classroom model where I record the lecture, and we work on the homework in class. They can do the homework before class, but they have to show me their code & explain it before they hand it in. That way, I can catch any errors they have before they hand it in, and answer questions that they run into if they haven't finished it yet. I also know that they're doing their own work.

    Also, if I see a common issue, I can do a 5 minute "mini lecture" to give an example technique in front of the class. If I come across a common issue after things have been submitted, I can do a 5 minute recorded lecture to reinforce what they should do in the future in that situation. Seems to work out well for my students.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:How I do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow- that's the best system ever envisioned or implemented for classroom size teaching of one to many. I remember a teacher in high school would have a day before every test where we wouldn't do anything. They would give us practice problems and then go around and help students one on one. I got straight As in that class explicitly because there was an opportunity to grasp what I was doing wrong or not understanding. Lectures style teaching makes it extremely difficult for most students to pick things up. Intruding to ask questions while may be encouraged is quite a challenging anxiety wise. Most are too afraid to raise there hand and ask the same question for appearing stupid and if you zone out at all then all bets are off. Watching a lecture and then getting one on one time for things you don't understand or follow has got to be the greatest idea ever and would be the greatest improvement to the education system if implemented across the board.

    2. Re:How I do it by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 3, Informative

      Watching a lecture and then getting one on one time for things you don't understand or follow has got to be the greatest idea ever and would be the greatest improvement to the education system if implemented across the board.

      While I'd like to claim credit for it, it's called a flipped classroom, and it's being implemented all over the place. It is also very helpful that I have a small class. It is much more difficult if I have more than a dozen or so students.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    3. Re:How I do it by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      I do this as well for a "Network Services with Linux". Lecture notes/summaries/examples are in our course management system, as are lists of good references and resources (thanks Safari subscription!), and class time is 10 minutes of demoing how things should work when done, pointing out particularly tricky bits and what common errors are, and then the next 2-2.5 hours are lab time.

      Exams are only 20% of the final grade and are "did you do the reading and know how the protocol operates in general terms" with some (10-15) true/false, multiple choice, pick multiple answers and then 4 or 5 short essay questions. Timed, but open book/open resource.

      The other 80% is labs and projects - configuring & maintaining dhcp, samba, dns, LAMP stack, postfix email w/ mysql back end, etc.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    4. Re:How I do it by godrik · · Score: 1

      > [flipped classrom] is much more difficult if I have more than a dozen or so students.

      That is my main complain about the flipped classroom craziness we see these days. They assume that we all have classes of less than 30 students.

      This semester, I teach 110 students. Even with 2 TAs, the idea that we can actually talk to each student every week is a pipe dream. We can not even have recitation with lead b the TA because we do not have space to hold these sessions. Even if we had room, over half our students are working 25hours or more a week and probably would not have time to show up.

  6. $70K? Absurd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Harvard's endowment provides sufficient income to the school that it doesn't actually need to charge tuition. The tuition it does charge just goes into growing the endowment.

    Indeed, most Harvard students do not pay tuition at all, because they are minorities or minority women. 79% of all tuition collected at Harvard is from white males, another 18% from white females, and the remaining 3% from minorities.

    1. Re:$70K? Absurd... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed, most Harvard students do not pay tuition at all, because they are minorities or minority women.

      Well, that is a load of crap. Roughly 50% of the Harvard student population is white. An additional 22% are Asian-American, who generally don't get classified as underpriviliged minority.

      https://college.harvard.edu/ad...

      Also, "minorities or minority women"?! Like the latter group magically doesn't get included in the former?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:$70K? Absurd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should a majority of the population, women, especially in universities these days, be considered a minority?

    3. Re:$70K? Absurd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An additional 22% are Asian-American, who generally don't get classified as underpriviliged minority.

      That's because they're not underprivileged. On average the asian minority earns more than whites, performs better in school, etc.

      Maybe being in a minority isn't the problem with school success or revenue, maybe working hard is and a culture of working hard is.

    4. Re:$70K? Absurd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, "minorities or minority women"?! Like the latter group magically doesn't get included in the former?

      Minority women are two checkboxes on the preferential treatment list. A minority woman counts twice as much for meeting the diversity hiring requirements.

  7. Previosu to this, did he tell them to cheat? by gurps_npc · · Score: 2

    I am pretty sure that Harvard has previously told students not to cheat.

    Doing it again is not useful. Try using tests (including testing conditions) that make it difficult to cheat, rather than yelling at people that do it.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:Previosu to this, did he tell them to cheat? by tgeek · · Score: 2

      Or maybe the dean should look at the course instead of the students. Is the material relevant and useful (i.e. are the students motivated to learn it) Or are they viewing it simply as a "bullshit-requirement-or-prerequisite-that-must-be-endured"? And I won't even get into the whole mixed of message of "Welcome to Intro to Computer science. The exciting field that, among other things, promotes the ability to share information. Now please don't share information or cheat."

  8. Sticker price? by argStyopa · · Score: 1, Informative

    "..In case you're curious, the estimated sticker price for attending Harvard College during the 2017-2018 school year is $69,600-$73,600 ..."

    Let's be clear, the sticker price ..really only applies to white and Asian hetero males.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Sticker price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure what you're implying.
      Do others pay more, or less?
      I assume it's less because of all the affirmative action bullshit grants and whatever.
      And why the fuck is it so god damn expensive?

    2. Re:Sticker price? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Supplah and dehmahnd.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:Sticker price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      obviously referring to diversity/scholarship bias.

    4. Re:Sticker price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Countries and states/provinces decide how to spend their money. One year's tuition at Harvard, if I remember correctly, pays for at least 3 4-year tuitions in Canada (more in Quebec). The maximum out-of-country tuition for a year at McGill in Montreal is 17K (presumably Canadian).

    5. Re:Sticker price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh-huh. All women go to college for free.....

      And modded as informative, wtf is happening to slashdot?

    6. Re:Sticker price? by doctorvo · · Score: 2

      And why the fuck is it so god damn expensive?

      That's easy: government subsidies and government student loan guarantees.

    7. Re:Sticker price? by old_skul · · Score: 1

      "..In case you're curious, the estimated sticker price for attending Harvard College during the 2017-2018 school year is $69,600-$73,600 ..."

      Let's be clear, the sticker price ..really only applies to white and Asian hetero males.

      Is it more expensive for Asian homo males? Asking for a friend.

    8. Re:Sticker price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Also it might have something to do with the fact that it's the number one most elite school on the planet, so if you don't want to pay up some Chinese guy will be happy to.

    9. Re:Sticker price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it more expensive for Asian homo males? Asking for a friend.

      Yes. There are a number of private scholarship and grant programs exclusive to homosexual students and many that give preference to homosexual students.

      Therefore, if they do their due diligence, homosexual Asians will pay less for college than heterosexual Asians.

    10. Re:Sticker price? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      So is there actually some special price for gay people?

      I'm mixed race but look white... How much do I have to pay?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:Sticker price? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't say it was free for women. He said that only white and Asian males pay the full price.
      But you knew that, didn't you? Yet you decided to come in here and try to deceive.

  9. big lectures classes are BS and cram tests don't p by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    big lectures classes are BS and cram tests don't prove much anyways.

  10. Re:big lectures classes are BS and cram tests don' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Failed all your classes, huh? By your posts, you're quite stupid.

  11. Re: That makes more sense by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    More advanced classes and I'd really want to search around and bounce ideas off anyone I can find. DO :? "Hello World":LOOP type stuff you can use the textbook.

  12. Re:big lectures classes are BS and cram tests don' by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    big lectures classes are BS

    I prefer big classes. In small classes, the prof will digress to give a detailed answer to every question, so the class progresses at the pace of dumbest moron in the room. In big lecture halls, the prof just says "See me after class" or "Go talk to the TA", and moves on.

  13. Reduce the incentive and value to cheat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First things first, if the lectures are available online, I wouldn't make attendance mandatory. Instead, I'd explain to students why it benefits them to be in attendance:

    1) It simply isn't possible to respond to respond to email or discussion forum questions immediately like what can be done in an in-class lecture.
    2) It's far easier for an instructor to help students if the instructor knows who they are. It's not that the instructor is biased against anyone else, but it's hard to directly help students who you don't have any direct contact with.

    As for cheating, reduce the incentive and value of doing so. That means eliminating any memorization questions. When I taught, I started creating multiple choice questions that asked the students to apply a particular concept to a very simple and straightforward case. It's easy to grade and yet students can't possibly look the answer up online because the question was unique to my class. There isn't a whole lot of extra work needed to create assignments that are mostly resistant to cheating. The ancillary benefit is that students learn the material better if they're asked to use it rather than simply recall it. For an introductory CS class, one simple approach is providing the students with a bit of code that's unique to the class and ask them to modify it in a relatively minor way. The grading is still simple, but it some basic competence is required even to find the appropriate solution online.

    Collaboration is a tougher one, but individual exams are a way to thwart impermissible collaboration. I think the best solution is to tell students that they can discuss assignments with other students, but they need to generate their answer individually and are responsible for understanding the solution. It's completely fair to reference assignments on the exam or even to reuse questions. I've done both, and it places greater value on understanding the answers to the assignments if they will come up again on the exam. I liked this because the assignments directly helped in preparing students for the exams. It also takes away many of the potential complaints about exams being unfair if they are given a very good idea of what's going to be on the exam. My view is that there shouldn't be any deception about exams -- be upfront with students about what's going to be on the exams. However, make the questions require an understanding of the material and the exams will still be challenging. If the assignments directly relate to the exams, there's far less incentive to copy answers on them.

    I believe that a lot of cheating can be stopped just by designing the course a bit differently. You'll still have students who try to be lazy and get by, but they'll eventually get exposed by the exams anyway.

    1. Re:Reduce the incentive and value to cheat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous Coward, the expert in higher education.

  14. double-secret probation by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Funny

    Video of the Harvard dean addressing the freshman in CS50 has now surfaced:

    https://i.imgur.com/zPn4CNd.gi...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  15. Soooo unfair! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thahght we collaborated heah at Hahvahd? Google and I wahked on this togethah!

  16. Re:big lectures classes are BS and cram tests don' by alvinrod · · Score: 1

    An introductory CS course shouldn't have cram tests. There's no end of practical material to test on and if you know how to code, a programming exam isn't going to be that hard if it asks you to write small bits of code. Big lectures don't really seem to fit CS either. I don't know what Harvard does or if things have changed, but when I got my degree is was smaller classes and a lot of time spent in a computer lab actually coding.

    The Dean shouldn't have to beg students not to cheat either. Toss some of the worst examples out on their ass and the rest will get the message, or at least learn to cheat more intelligently. This sounds less like an education and more like an expensive daycare for adults.

  17. That's not the only cheating going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to "One L: The Turbulent True Story of a First Year at Harvard Law School" by Scott Turow, Harvard law students would better qualify themselves for financial aid by dumping their life savings into a fancy sports car. Excess savings reduced the amount of financial aid, but owning a sports car doesn't. God help you if show up at Harvard Law School with the Honda Civic that got you through pre-law.

  18. wtf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    whats up with all this k0dink crap? rent-duh-k0d3rz are a dime a dozen.

  19. test for cheating by stabiesoft · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I recall one of my CS classes, the prof gave an assignment. You were guaranteed to run into a problem. Way back when, the batch file had a limit on memory usage and the assignment needed more than you had. So you went to the prof and he would put a check by your name and tell you how to up the resource. At the beginning of the assignment he was very clear. Do not cheat and that included asking classmates about anything about this assignment. If you did not go see him, you flunked the class. A clever prof figures out ways to detect cheating.

    1. Re:test for cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If You define asking classmates about anything about this assignment as cheating, You had already failed as a teacher. Not only that, it is even a retarded way of detecting cheating -- it does not prevent cross-year cheating, and it is enough for one clever person to be caught cheating to ruin this really stupid and manipulative thing.
      A clever teacher knows already that whatever punishments You employ, they only serve as perverse incentives at best and they always end up punishing upright students.

    2. Re:test for cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not to mention that the best students - the ones that can identify a problem, and research how to solve it own their own - would be the ones punished.
      The ones that "passed" were the drones that did exactly what they were told, in exactly the way they were told, and went back for more instructions at the first sign of trouble.

    3. Re:test for cheating by ByteSlicer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So if you knew enough about batch files and memory to fix this on your own (I know I did, back then), you'd be branded a cheater? The problem with "clever" profs is their ego is so big, they'd never consider a student being smarter than them.

    4. Re:test for cheating by karmatic · · Score: 2

      Fuck teachers who do things like that.

      I was failed out of a class (at Harvard no less) for doing too well. The instructor didn't think it was possible for me to do as well as I did, in the time I had, and determined that I had cheated on the final project.

      Some of us don't need to ask classmates - I was the nerdy autist who (quite literally) asked for DOS manuals for birthday presents as a child. Dealing with extended memory, high memory, upper memory - all of this was common when dealing with video games, and it was often necessary to move things around in memory to deal with (for example) the CDROM driver (or mouse driver) using up memory in a way that caused issues with DOS Protected Mode apps. Or, TSRs would cause conflicts. When teachers assume that students are incapable, they are bad teachers.

      If you are talking about a limit on a server (rather than a batch file), then you are likely talking about unix quotas and limits. These are also common limitations, and one I ran into on the FreeBSD nodes that I would use. I was in around 5th grade at the time.

      If I ran into a resource limit on someone else's system (for example, a shared CS unix box), I'd check the quota and see if my limit is soft or hard. If it's soft, the command `ulimit` would let the soft limit be raised up to the hard limit, likely fixing the crash. If it's a hard limit, I'm calling IT, not the professor.

      It's possible you actually meant batch file, but when you say "needed more than you had", that's an interesting assumption if people are permitted to use their own computers (unless you are talking about the native DOS memory limitations, which can be fixed with LOADHIGH, which gets you out of the DOS conventional memory area.

    5. Re:test for cheating by karmatic · · Score: 2

      It also assumes they don't already know the answer. The class may prohibit checking outside sources, but there are always other ways to solve the problem.

    6. Re:test for cheating by edx93 · · Score: 1

      > So you went to the prof and he would put a check by your name and tell you how to up the resource. How can he tell someone cheated as opposed to figured it out for him / her self?

    7. Re:test for cheating by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Duh, the problem with that is it presumes that you need to check outside sources. Perhaps you already know how to raise your limits and just do it. So you fail because you hit a resource problem, realized this and fixed it using already gained knowledge.

    8. Re:test for cheating by stabiesoft · · Score: 1

      Because this was before the internet. You know batch files. There were no manuals unless you worked for CDC. I am not claiming that the method he used would work today, but I am also sure a clever prof could device a scheme where the student would need to ask the prof to complete the assignment. Particularly if the prof was clear, using the internet for this assignment is cheating. You are to complete this assignment entirely on your own. Flame away people.

    9. Re:test for cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because figuring it out for yourself obviously was cheating. You were expected to go to the professor with your tail between your legs and beg for help so he could put you in your place and reinforce the idea that he was the all-powerful Oz and you were just an ignorant student. College isn't a place for learning.

    10. Re:test for cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recall one of my CS classes, the prof gave an assignment. You were guaranteed to run into a problem. Way back when, the batch file had a limit on memory usage and the assignment needed more than you had. So you went to the prof and he would put a check by your name and tell you how to up the resource. At the beginning of the assignment he was very clear. Do not cheat and that included asking classmates about anything about this assignment. If you did not go see him, you flunked the class. A clever prof figures out ways to detect cheating.

      So "cheating" by asking the professor is okay? But asking other people is not okay? I think the problem is not with the students, but with the teaching methodology.

      If you are testing accumulated knowledge then make it a closed book test or a sit down test at a computer without access to knowledge bases.

      Otherwise if you are using assignments to teach students, then they should have access to whatever available resources they can find to complete assignments. Similarly if you are writing a paper the requirement isn't that you don't read any source material or read other similar papers, the requirement is that you cite source material in your notes and you use your own language in your synthesis of the material. And hopefully you are learning along the way.

    11. Re:test for cheating by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

      I had a professor do something like this in a graduate computational physics class. I ignored his batch file, and wrote my own stuff to finish the assignment. I got a 0.

      I went in to complain to the professor about this, my answer was more elegant (faster, simpler code, right answer) than what he had done! He pointed out that I needed to learn how to work with a team, and that it wasn't always an option to re-write other people's code whenever you'd like. One of the points of the assignment was to understand how to work within the limitations of practical work.

      Now, some... years later, managing people who work and code for me, I GREATLY appreciate this lesson. Doing the best thing, technically, is sometimes the wrong thing for progress of a project.

    12. Re:test for cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doing the best thing, technically, is sometimes the wrong thing for progress of a project.

      This attitude explains a lot of stuff, from Windows to Android to systemd.

    13. Re:test for cheating by chihowa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One of the points of the assignment was to understand how to work within the limitations of practical work.

      Was that a specifically communicated point of the assignment or just something that he tacked on when you complained? It sounds like he was just punishing you for bruising his ego. I've been in the same situation that you were in...

      Part of teaching somebody how to work within limitations is to use actual limitations. Rewriting his code was obviously not an actual limitation, because you did it, so if he wanted it to be limiting he should have specified that. These some years later, it's clear what the limitations are and you I hope that don't fire people for not working within limitations that you never communicated to them.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    14. Re:test for cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if you asked the systems administrator how to up the limit, or turned in a solution that didn't work (explaining that the problem was caused by the batch file limit), you flunked the class. Great....

    15. Re:test for cheating by ByteSlicer · · Score: 1

      Because this was before the internet. You know batch files. There were no manuals unless you worked for CDC.

      Well, FWIW, I taught myself all about batch files by reading the manual. In that era software came with excellent printed manuals, containing commands and examples. Nowadays, you find the documentation online, and the examples on Google/StackOverflow.

      I think having a face-to-face with the student about the assignment is a much better way to determine whether it was own effort or not.

    16. Re:test for cheating by ByteSlicer · · Score: 1

      Great example of prof ego. Instead of deducing a few points for failing a hidden objective, you didn't get any points, even though you completed the main assignment. Then he convinced you he was right. Classic gaslighting.

      This is a problem with education in general, with teachers expecting you to regurgitate only *their* solutions, instead of promoting independent thought and thinking outside of the box.

      As for your last sentence, it depends. Sometimes you have to go with the flow, and sometimes you have to dig your own river bed and make the flow go where it needs to go. Managing programmers is not unlike herding cats...

  20. Re:big lectures classes are BS and cram tests don' by qwak23 · · Score: 1

    I've had the exact opposite happen - 400 student lecture, Prof spends 3-5 minutes on lecture, the remainder of the period answering questions in detail, TAs for this class pretty much had to fill in the rest of the lecture. 20 student lecture? Prof says "See me after class, talk to your TA, or come to my office hours on Thursday".

    I stopped going to the big lecture.

  21. CS50 is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's a mish-mash of random topics without any proper presentation or preparation, and the whole course is being presented as a stage for the current teacher to show himself off, prancing on the stage. It's a show, not a course.

    1. Re:CS50 is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any sub-100 course should be at a community college not a university.

  22. Hate crimes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If a white student cheats in a class that grades on a curve with black students in it, does that constitute a hate crime now?

  23. Ivy League schools are modern joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fewer people are taking these schools seriously any more. All you need to be admitted to Harvard is to be black and shriek louder than all your peers.

  24. It is NOT about Education! It's Hardvard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The ONLY value over a better cheaper education is the networking. Reputation is really only part of the networking.

    The filtering game adds to the prestige but even that is still networking: You WANT rich powerful brats connected with only the best nerds to help them stay ahead. Those nerds want to get connections with so they can work for our next gen of power "leaders".

  25. Harvard Material by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They really need to ask about copying from online resources or each other?

    Who admitted these morons?

    Think about the ethics of these students.

  26. Nothing really new by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

    Back when I was taking CS101 in the late 80's (at one of the many "Harvard of the South"s), I remember they ran a "DIFF" on all programming assignment submissions. Three people were caught turning in the same code, and kicked out. I think the class had maybe 15 people in it tops.

    I remember a lot of pearl-clutching at the time, because our school had an honor code, and those three had agreed to it. Imagine that, a signed honor code hadn't weeded out cheaters!

    The only details I'd ever heard about it was that the lazy SOB's had tried to change variable names to make it look different, but otherwise hadn't even changed a byte of the source files.