Bitcoin Exchange BTCChina Says To Stop Trading, Sparking Further Slide (reuters.com)

Several Slashdot readers have shared this Reuters story: Chinese bitcoin exchange BTCChina said on Thursday that it would stop all trading from Sept. 30, setting off a further slide in the value of the cryptocurrency that left it over 30 percent away from the record highs it hit earlier in the month. China has boomed as a cryptocurrency trading location in recent years, as investors and speculators flocked to domestic exchanges that formerly allowed users to conduct trades for free, boosting demand. But that has prompted regulators in the country to crack down on the cryptocurrency sector, in a bid to stamp out potential financial risks as consumers pile into a highly risky and speculative market that has seen unprecedented growth this year. Just hours after BTCChina announced its closure, Chinese news outlet Yicai reported that the country plans to shut down all bitcoin exchanges by the end of September, citing financial sources in Shanghai.

Comments

I for one welcome our new..

[Anonymous Coward]

BTC overlords (China).

Genie is out of the bottle

[Anonymous Coward]

Governments and Bankers are starting to panic.

Re:Don't I know it.

[Anonymous Coward]

You should. Buy high, sell low. The rest of us appreciate it.

Bitcoin is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

China has killed bitcoin. Bitcoin is dead. Hurray! Finally!!!

China is punishing North Korea.

[Anonymous Coward]

My best guess based on the available data is that China was previously propping up North Korea using BTC, and these exchanges were a politically good way of doing that so they allowed them to exist.. but now since North Korea is waving its Nukes around, they are closing them down as part of withholding payments and support as a punishment tactic.

Expect more China BTC exchanges to shut down as they centralize power and control.

Re:China is punishing North Korea.

[istartedi]

I suppose that's possible; but I think it's far more likely that the government is just trying to reduce capital flight. People in China who have money are always looking for ways to offshore it, and the government is always looking for ways to stop that.

Re:China is punishing North Korea.

[hackwrench]

Then they'll reopen once China gets its controls in.

Yet, despite the "crash"...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bitcoin is still up 456 percent over the past 12 months = Things That Make You Go Hmmm

Congratulations to Bitcoin

[DNS-and-BIND]

Bitcoin has gone from funny oddity to actual threat. China very tightly controls its money, because if it allowed free movement of money, the country would very quickly find itself broke. Nobody keeps their assets in yuan who has a choice. As a way to get money out of China, bitcoin is now a threat to the Communist Party. When nations are taking you as a serious threat, that's a genuine achievement, and I'd like to offer my congratulations.

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[loonycyborg]

With their export volumes they're less likely to go broke than US.. oh wait.

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[Anonymous Coward]

Not yet. When it's an actual threat, China's going to spin up 50% + 1 of the mining nodes and wreck shit.

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[angel'o'sphere]

It is extremely unlike that anything in China gets broke.

As far as I know it is the only government that is running since decades with a positive balance.

China as an "industrial social complex" owns half the world in terms of land they buy here and there.

They are probably the biggest owners of land, railroads, mines etc. in Africa.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/08...

Getting money out of China, if you want so, is easy. You simply do a wire transfer to an over seas account. Just like in any other country.

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[Zontar The Mindless]

Nobody keeps their assets in yuan who has a choice.

Says you.

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[DNS-and-BIND]

There are tons of restrictions on who can wire money where. You need permission, proof you've paid tax on it, it can't be too much, there is an annual limit for every person, and so on. It's not just like in any other country.

Re: Congratulations to Bitcoin

[Anonymous Coward]

Just bring the money to Hong Kong and do it. They never check at the borders (at least not at foot crossing) and there are no restrictions in HK. I'm in China now, but I'm a Chinese Canadian. I've smuggled 50,000 Canadian dollars worth out of China using Hk foot crossings, and never been caught yet, even though it's technically illegal to bring out more than 20000 rmb worth.

Lastly, on bitcoin, I'm waiting until the price falls to like 1000-2000, then gonna buy some. I missed the first boat, but it will rise again. It's way too valuable as a criminal currency to vanish. And a black market will come into existence in China, but it just needs time to develop.

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[LynnwoodRooster]

Getting money out of China, if you want so, is easy. You simply do a wire transfer to an over seas account. Just like in any other country.

Up to $50,000 per year, yes. Above that - you need a tax permit and register your capital as well and inform the Government of why you are doing the transfer. So I guess if you want to take 20 years to move your $1 millon overseas, you can - but going to Guangzhou, buying a few hundred thousand dollars worth of gold and a $500,000 jade bracelet and walking across the border to Hong Kong is a bit easier than a wire transfer.

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[nohup]

If this were to happen, there's always the option to change the proof of work algorithm which would completely nullify the hundreds of millions they'd probably have to spend to do this kind of attack in one instant.

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[angel'o'sphere]

Hongkong belongs to China now, so there could be a catch :)

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[Anonymous Coward]

China has been loosening it's controls recently and making it much more transferable/tradable.
China remembers recently how their stock markets too a hit and all the mum and dad 'investors' who lost their shirts got quite agitated. They don't want the same thing to happen with bitcoin. Take a bit of steam out of it now, so it doesn't blow up even worse later. Remind the 'investors' that it can go up as well as down.

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[LynnwoodRooster]

HK is a Special Administrative Region, with its own laws, currency, passports, languages (English and Cantonese are standard and legally binding, in mainland China it is only Mandarin), and such. As a US citizen, I just need a passport to go to HK; my Chinese national wife requires a special visa to go to HK. HK is "China" as much as Taiwan is...

Re:Congratulations to Bitcoin

[angel'o'sphere]

Only the first part is correct, HK is a "China" as much as Taiwan is is bollocks.

No surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

To all who thought bitcoin was "safe" and "untouchable" from governments - it's not. With the stroke of a pen government can make bitcoin borderline unusable. The last thing any government will tolerate is competition to its own currency.

30%?

[aepervius]

And this is why people see this as a volatile speculative commodity, and not a currency you can rely on for trade or pretty much anything requiring a stable currency.

Re:30%?

[Baron_Yam]

>And this is why people see this as a volatile speculative commodity, and not a currency

Well, there's ALSO the transaction rate limit, the ridiculous transaction fees to compete for a reasonable transaction time, and the practical centralization of the 'decentralized' system with a handful of Chinese mining concerns. And the lack of vendor adoption. And the difficulty using it securely. And the ease with which access can be irrevocably lost. And the baked-in deflationary economic model.

But other than that, yeah, a drop-in replacement for a genuine government-backed currency!

Re:30%?

[Anonymous Coward]

The transaction costs are a tiny fraction of what a bank or credit card processor charges to send Monopoly bank money.

And you keep your coins in cold storage. They're impossible to steal unless someone finds your wallet, kidnaps you, and tortures you for your pin, and even then the blockchain will show exactly who did that to you.

It's a technologically better form of money, far more efficient for moving large sums across borders. For this reason, it's only going up in the long term. If it's up 400 percent this year after the "crash," imagine what it will be like in a few years when millions more people grok the tech. Most Slashdotters will miss the boat. Not my problem.

Re:30%?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're impossible to steal unless... government makes trading them illegal.

Currency requires confidence, not technology. Take that confidence away and it becomes worthless.

Re:30%?

[Baron_Yam]

>The transaction costs are a tiny fraction of what a bank or credit card processor charges to send Monopoly bank money.

Sure, as long as you're buying a car. Of course, you also have to find someone selling a car for bitcoin... Now tell me what it costs to buy your groceries, go to the movies, or get a cup of coffee?

>And you keep your coins in cold storage.

Uh-huh. And your average person keeps their keys where? On a computer, because nobody's going to write their access keys down on paper and lock them in a fire safe. In fact, they'll keep their keys in a wallet on their smartphone, where they'll be stolen by hackers. Or they'll use a web wallet, where - in the event they're not defrauded by the wallet provider - a keylogger steals their access codes. Hence the very popular Bitcoin phrase "Sorry for your loss".

>and even then the blockchain will show exactly who did that to you.

HAHAHHAHHAHAHA. Yep, you can trace the coins to the current keys with authority. Now match that to a person without the power of a major government to help you. And if the coins are tumbled, or even just cashed out in a different legal jurisdiction, what are you going to do? Bitcoin transactions are irreversible, it's in the design.

>It's a technologically better form of money, far more efficient for moving large sums across borders.

If you find someone willing to accept it on the far side.

>imagine what it will be like in a few years when millions more people grok the tech.

If millions more ADOPTED bitcoin, it'd crash instantly, since it's totally unscalable.

>Most Slashdotters will miss the boat. Not my problem.

Well, your ignorance and stupidity aren't mine, but here we are. Maybe you'll get lucky and BLASH. Maybe you'll hold on to your 'store of value' as it all crashes. But you've got your blissful ignorance and faith to make you feel superior, so you've got that going for you.

Maybe move out of mom's basement and get a real job. Sunlight's good for you.

Re:30%?

[that this is not und]

Most Slashdotters don't sell Amway, either.

Re:30%?

[Anonymous Coward]

I beg to differ. While I am of the opinion that Bitcoin is a volatile speculative commodity, I don't think that its being 30% down as a result of closing down exchanges serves well to make the point.

The reason I'm making this point is simple. A commonly accepted fact is that the surge Bitcoin has experienced over the past year is a result of the increased activity in China, including Chinese miners and Chinese exchanges. All of these Chinese persons, for whatever reason, invested in Bitcoin relying on the conditions of the market then, a huge part of which is the fungibility of Bitcoin. Now, as the current situation is, take some of that fungibility away by closing down exchanges and spreading rumours of cracking down on Bitcoin and increasing regulation. Obviously, the actors involved in Bitcoin would hurry to liquidate the assets that they hold, and would furthermore desist from acquiring more Bitcoin. Those that still hold Bitcoin will find fewer buyers. And add the panic caused by these news. If one accepts the fact that a significant part of the activity in Bitcoin was a result of the activity in China, a -30% swift would not seem all that unreasonable.

What would happen with a 'hard' currency in a similar situation? If the United States were to implement currency controls tomorrow, prohibiting anyone in the United States from acquiring foreign currency in exchange for US dollars, I wouldn't be all too surprised if the markets reacted by making the US dollar 30% less valuable. Yes, I would expect that it would fall less than that, but only because of the privileged position US dollars hold in the world economy. And, I wouldn't be surprised at all if such currency controls caused a 30% drop (or more) in less widely spread currencies, like, say, the Swedish krona or the Swiss francs. The situation with Bitcoin is no different. It is also akin to what would happen to any currency if the country printing it (except perhaps for the US dollar, again) faced some sort of hurdle, like we see happening to the pound sterling now.

As for why I think that the Bitcoin market is mostly speculative, my personal experience is that it is mostly used for trading cryptocurrencies themselves, or for hoarding it in the hopes that it will go up, but not so much as a medium of exchange. I have not seen many major retailers beginning to accept Bitcoins, nor do I know anyone (nor of anyone) that uses Bitcoin for their day-to-day transactions. While this transactional use of Bitcoin may exist in some markets (like the dark web, cryptolockers, some VPN providers, camgirls, etc.), I do not think this alone would account for the recent price surges, as I do not believe these markets to be as big as the Bitcoin market cap. For as long as this is the case, I am of the opinion that Bitcoin will remain speculative and volatile.

And yet, despite what I just wrote, there are indications that Bitcoin is not as unstable as of yet. Save for precise events that can explain certain market behaviours, like the current one, I see that its price has been fairly stable (or rising) in the medium term. For example, if you bought in at its highest in September 2016 and sold at the lowest any time after September 2016, you would have sold in October 2016. The same can be said, in general, for the rest of this last year. In other words, mostly those that are playing the very short term game (buy at time t, sell at time t+1s or time t+1w, or such) have faced losses (and if they were playing the game repeatedly, they still mostly came ahead.) Bitcoin was at its absolute maximum a few days ago, and is now still at a higher price point than it's ever been since July this year, meaning that those playing a longer term game, or using Bitcoin as a store of value, have overwhelmingly not lost. It is therefore not so accurate to call Bitcoin mostly volatile when there is an easily found upward trend.

Re:30%?

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine being this wrong.

Re:30%?

[hey!]

Well, it can be both. People do, after all, speculate in ordinary currency. An hour a day spent in currency speculation made John Maynard Keynes a rich man.

The whole point of Bitcoin is that governments don't control it (although this event demonstrates that this doesn't mean governments can't take actions that alter its value). This sounds like utopia to some people, but it's got its drawbacks. One of them is that there's no central bank taking actions to stabilize the value of the currency. If you can live with that, a decentralized cryptocurrency like bitcoin has its uses.

Re:30%?

[LynnwoodRooster]

You forgot about 100% traceable transactions for your entire wallet (identify you with one transaction, and the public record shows ALL your transactions you ever made), to essentially eliminate privacy...

Re:30%?

[LynnwoodRooster]

It's a technologically better form of money, far more efficient for moving large sums across borders.

Really? What, a 3% surcharge (1.5% on each end) is good? I pay $15 flat rate for a wire transfer, no limit. Did one yesterday to a vendor, $380,000 for $15. I guess Bitcoin charging $12,000 would be better than $15?

Re:30%?

[Applehu Akbar]

"the blockchain will show exactly who did that to you."

The same blockchain that makes it so easy to nail a ransomware developer?

Re:30%?

[Anonymous Coward]

you mean where you=some number, not a name.

Re:30%?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? What, a 3% surcharge (1.5% on each end) is good? I pay $15 flat rate for a wire transfer, no limit. Did one yesterday to a vendor, $380,000 for $15. I guess Bitcoin charging $12,000 would be better than $15?

But... but... but... decentralized!

Re:30%?

[LynnwoodRooster]

Tie that name to a number ONE TIME, and it's tied for all past and all future transactions too. Cash? You're tied for ONE transaction only.

Re:30%?

[nohup]

Why would you pay 1.5% on each end? That's not part of Bitcoin. Are you talking about transaction fees? You could easily move any arbitrary amount of money for a dollar or less in transaction fees, that's a lot less than 1.5%.

Re:30%?

[nohup]

> >The transaction costs are a tiny fraction of what a bank or credit card processor charges to send Monopoly bank money.
> Sure, as long as you're buying a car. Of course, you also have to find someone selling a car for bitcoin... Now tell me what it costs to buy your groceries, go to the movies, or get a cup of coffee?

Bitcoin is still generally cheaper for purchases over $30 to pay in Bitcoin even with rising transaction costs. Transactions are getting more expensive for more limited purchases, that's true, due to the limits. But there is a lot of interesting engineering going on to fix this problem, such as the lightning network, which should be able to reduce the cost of transaction fees and allow micropayments for fractions of a cent of transaction fees. Other tech on the horizon includes sidechains, where you could use Bitcoins on a network with a different security model; the more expensive high security chain is not required for day-to-day small purchases, and could ultimately be rolled up into the main chain through a sidechain-to-main transaction, or even a lightning network bridge.

>And you keep your coins in cold storage.
>> Uh-huh. And your average person keeps their keys where? On a computer, because nobody's going to write their access keys down on paper and lock them in a fire safe. In fact, they'll keep their keys in a wallet on their smartphone, where they'll be stolen by hackers. Or they'll use a web wallet, where - in the event they're not defrauded by the wallet provider - a keylogger steals their access codes. Hence the very popular Bitcoin phrase "Sorry for your loss".

There are dedicated hardware devices now that make cold storage very easy and highly protected such as the Ledger and the Trezor. If Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies get more popular, there's not reason why this type of technology couldn't be implemented safely directly into phones as an independent chip isolated from the rest of the operating system. That would give the benefits of very high security with simple user interfaces for users. There could even be schemes for recovery with multi-factor authentication, key sharding schemes, etc. These are still fairly technical, but it's easy to imagine a world where this is a lot simpler for end users. The current hardware wallets are already light years an improvement over your "write on paper" suggestion.

>>It's a technologically better form of money, far more efficient for moving large sums across borders.
>If you find someone willing to accept it on the far side.

Adoption is continuing to increase. It's small now, but growing relatively quickly.

>>imagine what it will be like in a few years when millions more people grok the tech.
>If millions more ADOPTED bitcoin, it'd crash instantly, since it's totally unscalable.

There are a ton of improvements that have been made and are continuing to be made to increase the scale as the demand is growing. For example, the latest release of Bitcoin Core that came out just yesterday includes a 40%-50% speed-up for sync, significantly reduces memory requirements, and disk space. Another recent improvement, Segwit, increased transaction capacity by at least double while also providing the ability for more future upgrades. Many improvements are on the way as already mentioned for the volume of transactions as well, such as the lightning network, sidechains, etc. There is also a lot of experimental engineering being done that could help scale such as proposals like Mimblewimble.

There are interesting things going on with using bloom filters, and the recently released FIBRE network that is some extremely cool computer science engineering to pass Bitcoin blocks at nearly the speed of light to reduce orphans. There is so much interesting computer science and cryptographic research going on that it's astounding. A lot of this revolves around improving scale. So on a tech site like Slashdot, you probably should keep an open mind about it, read about some of the really neat developments in the pipeline, and not just dismiss it.

Re:30%?

[LynnwoodRooster]

What is the fee to transfer Bitcoin into a currency that can be used for 99.99% of life?

Re:30%?

[nohup]

A common exchange rate is somewhere between 0% to 0.25% depending on how the exchange is done (market maker vs taker), and volume. See for example: https://www.gdax.com/fees/BTC-...

With the rise of technologies like lightning network and decentralized exchanges, we might see even better exchange rates if you can swap across different currencies easily.

Re:30%?

[Xyrus]

Bitcoin. When you want your money to have all the safety and stability of a third world country.

Re:30%?

[TheCastro1689]

People always complain that a new item isn't usable everywhere. I remember when Youtube hardly had any videos. Would these same people scream about no content?

Re:30%?

[Baron_Yam]

Bitcoin's had long enough to develop some share of economic activity and failed, because it is in no way superior to cash, a debit card, or a credit card, no matter how much you feel justified in prosthelytizing. It's coming up on a decade soon, and the best you can do is say, "I can use it to buy gift cards that I then use to buy stuff". In other words, it's good for low-level money laundering and illicit purchases. Yay.

Youtube, on the other hand, was a superior option and gained market share as a result.

And of course there's always the fact that adoption would kill Bitcoin faster than waiting for this particular 'get rich quick' fad to fade out, since it doesn't scale very well at all.

Re:30%?

[LynnwoodRooster]

So for my wire transfer, I could pay $1900 for the transfer, versus $15. And how fast is that money available? Wired funds typically are good within 1 day or faster... With the extreme volatility of Bitcoin, a 1 day delay could slash - or raise - costs by 10% or more.

Central bansk want control

[Anonymous Coward]

All this unregulated, decentralized stuff is just rubbing them the wrong way.

They want to regulate it to fight money laundering just like the secret service wants to tap into every email to fight terrorism.

It's decentralised, it's out of government control. If you run over a network like MAID it will take them years just to figure out how to interfere with it and by then there'll be something better.

So what I am saying is, look to catch the knife cause there will be some cheap BTC to buy really soon.

Re:Central bansk want control

[Anonymous Coward]

Expand credit to cause a price 'bubble', contract it to cause a 'crash'. Plus being able to freeze bank accounts and so on. We need decentralization to protect ourselves from ourselves.

Indeed!

[gatfirls]

A lot of people were 'Hmmm'ing all the way to bankruptcy in 2007 when their house was 300% of the purchase price and -30% a year later. Surely bitcoin couldn't suffer the same fate as that extremely secure, tangible, asset.

Re:Indeed!

[Ol Olsoc]

A lot of people were 'Hmmm'ing all the way to bankruptcy in 2007 when their house was 300% of the purchase price and -30% a year later. Surely bitcoin couldn't suffer the same fate as that extremely secure, tangible, asset.

Bitcoin is like gold. Every so often, just like gold, it goes up wildly. then just as quickly, it falls wildly, and a bunch of pretend money disappears overnight. People lose their asses, and sell at a loss. Smart move people

Re:Indeed!

[that this is not und]

A stable value like that is exactly what is required of a currency for people to accept it and start using it like a currency. When 'currencies' like Tulip Bulbs or Beanie Babies start swinging wildly in value, they are just vehicles for speculators.

Re:Indeed!

[Applehu Akbar]

Gold has at least been around for a long time, and has investment value because it is so easily recognizable and assayable, and has established value in every culture.

In Roman times, an ounce of gold traded for the best suit of clothes. After two thousand years of inflation, deflation and manipulation - it still does.

Re:Indeed!

[Ol Olsoc]

Gold has at least been around for a long time, and has investment value because it is so easily recognizable and assayable, and has established value in every culture.

In Roman times, an ounce of gold traded for the best suit of clothes. After two thousand years of inflation, deflation and manipulation - it still does.

Yet many people have lost life investments by buying gold at the wrong time. It is way too volatile.If You buy high and sell low, as so many do, that doesn't do much for you.

I actually have some precious metal investments, made in 1978. If I were to sell them today, I would make about 500 dollars per ounce. That's actually a loss, adjusted for inflation. http://www.macrotrends.net/133... So they sit, I don't even think about them unless in conversations like this.

Anyhow, if you buy low, and sell before you think they've hit their peak, you might do okay. But most people don't think that way. On the way up, they are counting their money, and congratulating themselves for how smart they are. Then after it peaks, they hang on, because it has to go back up, right? Then after it sinks below what they paid for it, they hold on in the forlorn hope it will rebound. Then they sell it at a big loss.

My guess is that if we are taking the apocalyptic fear version the investors trot out, yes, when the wheels fall off, you can buy a loaf of beard and some bullets for some gold. My hope is that I don't survive whatever causes civilization to collapse like that. Just bury those Krugerrands or Englehard gold bars in a concrete box in the back yard, and when the radiation dies down, dig it up and make your way in the brave new world.

Re:Indeed!

[nohup]

I think you're right, there's no question there's a level of speculative activity going on in this realm. However, the interesting thing is that with the concept of "programmable money", you can create any cryptocurrency with any economic or monetary model you want. If your goal is to create a "stable value" currency, you could do that. There are some, as a matter of fact, like Tether. Bitcoin is more like gold than a currency as was pointed out, so while traditional gold is less convenient in the modern era, Bitcoin as a digital gold is much more practical, so it sort of straddles a line between a traditional asset (like gold, having a fixed supply rather than a stable value), but also like a currency (ease of spending as a medium of transaction).

Re:Indeed!

[religionofpeas]

Horses have at least been around for a long time. This 'automobile' is just a fad.

Re: Indeed!

[Suffering Bastard]

...when the wheels fall off, you can buy a loaf of beard and some bullets for some gold

Dang you'd have to be really hungry. But at least now we know Richard Stallman won't starve.

Re: Indeed!

[Ol Olsoc]

...when the wheels fall off, you can buy a loaf of beard and some bullets for some gold

Dang you'd have to be really hungry. But at least now we know Richard Stallman won't starve.

Damn autocorrect! But funny as hell sometimes!

Re:Don't I know it.

[sims 2]

Wow! it's over $3,000/coin now last I heard it was only up to $2,700.

How to determine the cash flow through bitcoin?

[beachdog]

Wouldn't it be interesting to see the transaction ledger that would show the actual movement of one specific exchange purchase of a bitcoin, and then show the second transaction where this specific bitcoin is transferred to another party in exchange for another kind of money or a tangible item like food.

The problem for us as spectators is to get a picture of some bitcoin transactions with the seller and the exchange shown. Then another picture with the exchange and the buyer shown. Then a third picture with both source transaction currencies and bitcoin shown. Is there a circular or destabilizing flow taking place due to asymmetry in the currency exchange rates seen as a loop?

As a spectator, my editorial comment is the Chinese bitcoin exchange shutdown is probably caused by the government's ability to investigate domestic bank transactions. It seems there has been promotion of bitcoin sales in the domestic US (judging by the popup ads I see). The US side of the bitcoin exchange may showing a big blast of dollars. There I am stuck.

What is this speculative surge of dollars doing to the Chinese economy? Is this surge the problem the Chinese government is trying to halt?

On The Internet

[that this is not und]

There is an old saying from the 90's. "On The Internet Nobody Knows You Are A Dog.".

That can be revised now: "On The Internet, Nobody Needs To Know Your Dog Has $1,000,000 Worth Of Bitcoins."

Quite frankly this is just a buying opportunity...

[Anonymous Coward]

We knew it was coming for years. I had guestimated it would get close to $6,000 / Bitcoin before it crashed to $3,000-4,000 as it did during the last major crash (that is it lost about half its value or so). There is a reason I accept Bitcoin in my business and spend Bitcoin, but don't invest in Bitcoin. Most who were holding Bitcoin should still be doing VERY well in spite of this crash though despite that I'm not investing in it.

I've done very well in terms of profiting off of having and using Bitcoin because it does tend to go in an upward direction, but to invest in it at the wrong time is just asking for trouble. It's a risky investment and I prefer to invest in things where I know my money is going to double in X amount of time. The good thing though is if you did invest in it when it was at $5000 and didn't stupidly sell off as its hit bottom today you'll probably only have to wait two years and three to make your money back and double your profits. For most people this is still better than investing elsewhere and less risky.

I've spent 10s of thousand of dollars worth of Bitcoin in the past month or two and have saved over $3000. I've also saved 3% or so on every product my company has sold where a customer has paid in Bitcoin because I didn't have to pay credit card transaction fees on the sale. The profit margins on the biggest items ($600+) my company sells are less than 3% so we have doubled the profitability on these transactions. The less expensive accessories we sell have super high margins though and make up for the low margin high ticket items.

I'm now betting it's going to be another 2 years before Bitcoin hits the $5000-$6000 range again and stays there. It will then proceed to rise up to and exceed $10,000 over the next couple years.

Cronies, thugs, and dictators, oh my!

[TiggertheMad]

Rather telling that once someone in China gets rich, the first thing they do is look for a way to move their money out of reach of Communism. It's like they don't have any faith in their government or something...

Re:Cronies, thugs, and dictators, oh my!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like they don't have any faith in their government or something...

But it's unheard of in the Capitalist States of America - no wealthy individuals using tax havens there.

Re:Cronies, thugs, and dictators, oh my!

[JonLatane]

It's like they have faith in their government taking their money and using it for the public good rather than allowing them to hoard it for themselves. I think your statement is meant to be an indictment of communism. But all you've demonstrated is that individuals who hoard money are bad and that the people need to be empowered to enforce redistribution of wealth, with force as a deterrent for this type of behavior.

Re:Cronies, thugs, and dictators, oh my!

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is strange, since the Chinese currency has gone up 6% so far this year. So all those people already made a 6% loss.

miner miner forty-niner

[Anonymous Coward]

ahahahahahaha....1849, livin' the dream, again.

Re: Don't I know it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, like you'll find anyone willing to give you $200k for coin that won't even be worth $20 in six months.

Re:Don't I know it.

[courteaudotbiz]

All this sounds like stock pumping and bashing. Best place to discuss it is on stockhouse.com.

I look forward to the executions by China

[Anonymous Coward]

of the bitcoin fraudsters. Couldn't happen to a better class of parasites.

Re: Don't I know it.

[crtreece]

If you're so positive bitcoin is going down, then I'm sure you are cleaning up by shorting them, right?