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Moscow Deploys Facial Recognition to Spy on Citizens in Streets (bloomberg.com)

Moscow is adding facial-recognition technology to its network of 170,000 surveillance cameras across the city in a move to identify criminals and boost security. From a report: Since 2012, CCTV recordings have been held for five days after they're captured, with about 20 million hours of video stored at any one time. "We soon found it impossible to process such volumes of data by police officers alone," said Artem Ermolaev, head of the department of information technology in Moscow. "We needed an artificial intelligence to help find what we are looking for." Moscow says the city's centralized surveillance network is the world's largest of its kind. The U.K. is one of the most notorious for its use of CCTV cameras but precise figures are difficult to obtain. However, a 2013 report by the British Security Industry Association estimated there were as many as 70,000 cameras operated by the government across the nation.

68 comments

  1. Rain by TheDarkener · · Score: 1

    A storm starts with a single raindrop.

    Total surveillance starts with a single camera.

    Or, to use another analogy, we are the frogs.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    1. Re: Rain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ribbit.

    2. Re:Rain by hord · · Score: 1

      The odd thing is that while we don't want state surveillance, we already have a camera in every store including parking lots and sidewalks. We are being watched but it's by ourselves because of ourselves. A weird effect of the social cost of some crimes, I guess.

    3. Re:Rain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have a camera and government has a camera is not one and the same. I also have eyes that observe everything I do, that does not mean "the man" has an easy access to that information.

    4. Re:Rain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do the cameras in every store parking lot conspire to track your movements? No, their purview is simply the area they are pointed at. Moscow's system is different; it is designed to track movements and get a broader picture of everyone's life.

    5. Re:Rain by Agripa · · Score: 1

      The avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.

  2. So noble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When russia does it, it's spying. When the US government does it, it's surveillance. Even though the effect on privacy is the same (to basically shit all over it), it's just so much more noble when your own government does it.

    1. Re: So noble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      AND when it's Kim jong UN who does it it's a personal home video-protection system.

    2. Re:So noble by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      When russia does it, it's spying. When the US government does it, it's surveillance.

      "Surveillance" and "spying" are synonyms.

    3. Re: So noble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because Littl' Kim is the only one with an HD TV that works...

    4. Re: So noble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when Facebook does it, it's to make money advertising.

    5. Re: So noble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when Trump does it well now der billy-bob dats just 'Murica

    6. Re: So noble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good healthy habit when moving is to take a walk and survey the neighborhood, so you can be aware of your new surroundings.

      A good healthy habit when moving is to take a walk and spy the neighborhood, so you can be aware of your new surroundings.

      The first example brings up innocent images, the second, as its supoosed, brings up images of peering into peoples private lives, hiding behind trees, etc.

      Spy is an inherently negative word, unless in regards to use AGAINST your enemy.

  3. In America.... by svendsen · · Score: 3, Funny

    We pay for the privilege of using our facial recognition detecting phones and giving it to the government directly :-)

    1. Re:In America.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      And we stand in line for days in advance, sign two-year contracts, and we're HAPPY about it.

    2. Re:In America.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we who? faggets and crying sand monkeys?

  4. The truth is by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · · Score: 1

    This is a perfectly hidden advertisement for N-Tech.Lab. Yes, their algorithm has won certain face recognition competitions but this bloomberg article is a whole lot better for their publicity.

  5. San Diego is already doing this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With the help of GE and AT&T of course. I guess we are no better than Russia.

    http://fortune.com/2017/02/22/san-diego-ge-intel-att/

    1. Re:San Diego is already doing this.. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      We stopped being any better than Russia quite a few years ago.

    2. Re:San Diego is already doing this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to get out more if you want people to take your pithy generalizations seriously. People in the US shrilling about their human rights and privacy rights being compromised do not even know what that would those types of violations would really look like.

    3. Re:San Diego is already doing this.. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you're claiming here -- are you saying that the US spies less on its citizens that Russia does on theirs?

    4. Re:San Diego is already doing this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moral relativism is such a great philosophy. Just ask Hitler!

      It's so great to hand wave away any and all criticisms of an authoritarian state

    5. Re:San Diego is already doing this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to get out more if you want people to take your pithy generalizations seriously. People in the US shrilling about their human rights and privacy rights being compromised do not even know what that would those types of violations would really look like.

      The parent is nothing more than an uniformed shill that doesn't realize that many people come to the US from other countries to escape this kind of shit.

      Ignorance is bliss I guess.

    6. Re:San Diego is already doing this.. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I don't think that you understood my comment. I wasn't making a grand overall judgement between the two. I was talking about surveillance.

    7. Re:San Diego is already doing this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The comment was not being directed at you. I quoted who it was intended for.

    8. Re:San Diego is already doing this.. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I think you may have confused your reply. The comment was a reply to mine, and did not quote anybody.

  6. commentsubject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "lol i don't care if the state watches me masturbate"

    That is monitoring. This is logging. This is automation, and all the bad assumptions, the poorly-thought-out event flows, that always come with it. Think red light cameras.

    As if you were ever worth dedicated observation.

    1. Re:commentsubject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh fuck, imagine the fortune to be made on jay walking tickets!

  7. In Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Streets watch you!

  8. Moscow, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's the difference?

  9. Oh by leretard · · Score: 1

    I guess maybe we should watch Russia's press to let us know when our government does the same.

    Oh wait we already missed it.

  10. The machine from Person of Interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is already being deployed in NYC. Facial rec. is coming to every corner as we speak.

    1. Re:The machine from Person of Interest by JohnFen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The amount of spying in NYC (or London, or etc.) is one of the reasons why I avoid NYC (or London, or etc.)

      This stuff will eventually be everywhere, of course, but I'll avoid it for as long as I can.

    2. Re:The machine from Person of Interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The amount of spying in NYC (or London, or etc.) is one of the reasons why I avoid NYC (or London, or etc.)

      Why? Not that I'm big fan of surveillance, but in this case I'd really really like to know why. What is the function in your life that you are protecting by staying away from public surveillance cameras? Why do you think you are more important than millions of others? Please do tell.

    3. Re:The machine from Person of Interest by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      What is the function in your life that you are protecting by staying away from public surveillance cameras?

      A moral principle, maybe?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:The machine from Person of Interest by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Why?

      Because I don't trust the authorities to handle or use the data properly. Same as my objection to being spied on by corporations. But I will note that my reasons aren't important. I should have the fundamental human right to not be spied on even if I have no logical reason to object to it.

      Why do you think you are more important than millions of others?

      I don't, and never claimed or even remotely implied that I am.

  11. it's not like the US government won't be doing it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They can already track anyone as they walk around Manhattan.

    Also, a lot of fishy "random" arrests at the tunnels. Not that I mind when dudes with a bunch of guns in their trucks get stopped, but one has to wonder what kind of tech they are using to do it. Maybe that explains why Port Authority is always way over budget: a lot of secret shit they're not telling anyone about.

  12. Re:In A Stunning Reversal, DHS Concludes No Hackin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The latest Red Scare is just a big nothing burger.

    So was the last one in the 1950's that ruined people's lives for no good reason.

  13. Re:Trump! by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Trump approves and rolls out the same in the US. Now everyone can be a reality TV star!

    Like they are not already TV stars in their minds.... Have you see the self absorbed "LOOK AT ME" stuff on Instagram, U-Tube and Facebook lately? There is a whole world of people who think their everyday lives are somehow interesting to others.

    I'm always shaking my head... No, even if you are my sister in law, I'm not the least bit interested in what you had for dinner and if it was on your latest diet or not... Tell it to my brother, I bet he doesn't care either.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  14. Re:it's not like the US government won't be doing by bobbied · · Score: 1

    I think using past tense is a bad choice here.... I'm just guessing here but I'm pretty sure they ARE doing it NOW... That makes it present tense...

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  15. Really? by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 1

    The amount of spying in NYC (or London, or etc.) is one of the reasons why I avoid NYC (or London, or etc.)

    This stuff will eventually be everywhere, of course, but I'll avoid it for as long as I can.

    I mean, there's no reason to seek it out, but it's also not a great reason to avoid a place for 99.9% of people. We're just not that interesting.

    --
    Real lawyers write in C++
    1. Re:Really? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I mean, there's no reason to seek it out, but it's also not a great reason to avoid a place for 99.9% of people. We're just not that interesting.

      That I object to it is plenty enough of a reason. Whether or not I'm of interest to anybody isn't even a little relevant.

  16. Russia turning into the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's okay when the Brits do it. Pip pip cheerio

  17. We did it! by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Congratulations, my fellow computer scientists, we're finally destroying freedom! ;)

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:We did it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the only freedom you have is to be a fucking dollar slave. Fuck your stupid freedom.

    2. Re:We did it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations, my fellow computer scientists, we're finally destroying freedom! ;)

      Yeah about that... you shoud read up on IBM's history.

    3. Re:We did it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Listen, lots of companies did business with the third reich at the time. It doesn't mean anything.

    4. Re:We did it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You realize how moronic you sound with your circular logic?

  18. Good luck with that by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

    Recognising faces in random footages with different quality and weather conditions, from any angle, people being in whatever position, wearing anything, performing any action, etc.? Like in the movies, where laser beam are automatically pointing to the eyes of each person entering in a building? LOL. I don't think so. The accuracy of any system on these lines is probably extremely low.

    --
    Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
    1. Re:Good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they can reliably track your blob-of-pixels throughout the city, then they only need 1 good clean pic of your face to identify everywhere you go... join that to your mobile phone location, and the accuracy is just about 100% (unless you're not carrying a phone and have your face completely concealed everywhere throughout the entire day---but then they'd likely wanna pull you over for a ``random search'' anyway).

    2. Re:Good luck with that by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      If they can reliably track your blob-of-pixels throughout the city, then they only need 1 good clean pic of your face to identify everywhere you go.

      How is that supposed to work? Just for recognising a very simple and well-defined shape you needs a relevant amount of training; and even in that case, a different colour or a weird shape might provoke the whole recognition to fail. Faces are very complicated when considered dynamically; say the same person smiling, being sad, etc. But if additionally you add the millions of positions in which that face could be and the millions of further factors seriously affecting the storage of said face, the possibilities are way too high. Additionally bear in mind that you don't have too many pictures of the same person and that when people takes their pictures they have a very specific gesture and are in a very specific position. If you can make a close enough good picture of a person (ideally, more than one), you might have some chance at automatically crosschecking that photo against a database; but random situations from random footages? This is extremely inaccurate/requires a very complex and extremely well trained system.

      join that to your mobile phone location

      This is a different story.

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
    3. Re:Good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not clear if Manhattan can do it in real time, but they can definitely go back and follow everywhere you went in the city. Of course, they could do this for years with human detectives watching the footage from all the cameras. It's just now it's automated.

    4. Re:Good luck with that by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      Location and image recognition are two different events which are very difficult to be related in an automated way. Imagine that you know the exact location of person A on certain day and at certain time; and also that there is a video recorded by a shop at that same moment. A person analysing all the people being in that shop is likely to do a much more efficient work than any automated system. Now start increasing the scope of the search (people during that day in that street, in that neighbourhood, during that week, etc.) and the automated recognition would become virtually impossible.

      The whole point of having an automated system analysing huge amounts of information is it to be able to do so accurately. This means that it has to gracefully deal with unfiltered, low-quality, imprecise, etc. inputs, the kind of stuff with which almost any person can deal intuitively. That's why automation is mostly meant for well-defined scenarios, not for abstract ones like random people in random videos. I am not saying that it is impossible or even that it might not be kind of helpful under very specific conditions. All what I am saying is that the probability that such a system might be used at a large enough scale to represent any kind of threat for the privacy of random citizens is extremely low.

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
  19. Re:it's not like the US government won't be doing by fisted · · Score: 1

    I think using past tense is a bad choice here

    I think OP agrees, since they haven't used any past tense...

  20. Tech is the enabler (Re:Rain) by mi · · Score: 1

    Total surveillance starts with a single camera.

    The totality was limited not only by our rights or privacy-expectations, but by the capabilities of the law-enforcement. It was always perfectly legal for the government to place a police officer on every corner — there just weren't enough officers and their ability to share and archive their observations was limited.

    But technology has solved those limitations technological limitations... If we do not want it used, we need new laws to the effect.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Tech is the enabler (Re:Rain) by infolation · · Score: 1

      When used in this adversarial way, facial recognition is a force multiplier to allow a small number of people to control the actions of a large number of people. In the same way as a gun.

      I can't speak for Russia, but the UK police have, to date, had very little practical success with facial recognition.

      (The article link is Liberty's breakdown of the London Metropolitan Police's worryingly inaccurate and painfully crude facial recognition operation used at the 2017 Notting Hill Carnival).

  21. Governments not trusting its own people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is proof thazt they are doing a very bad work serving it's own people.

  22. Have to do something about the political murders by willy_me · · Score: 1

    No more excuses when an opposition leader gets gunned down outside the Kremlin.

  23. Re:Have to do something about the political murder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    yeah, that's exactly the time when stuff won't be working right.

    There was a 4-car pileup right outside my window... yes, there's a camera looking right at the intersection. It turned out that the camera only saves 1 frame every 30 seconds. So the car that smashed into everyone drove away... and as far as I know, nobody ever found it.

  24. Re:In A Stunning Reversal, DHS Concludes No Hackin by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    I read that initially as Wisconsin is reporting that California's website is perfectly safe. As for the article, are we really going with, "But Great Britain does it too!"

  25. Re:In A Stunning Reversal, DHS Concludes No Hackin by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    There are no good reasons, or any bad reasons. We are in a simulation. That keeps us safe. And the evil big money people are trying to escape that safety. But they are also perfectly good. Bifurcations, don't you know. The Space robots will keep us safe! For great justice. I know, I'm senile!

  26. Re: In A Stunning Reversal, DHS Concludes No Hacki by bestweasel · · Score: 1

    As far as we know, facial recognition has only been used 3 times in public in the UK, the most recent being the Notting Hill Carnival last month. It wasn't a great success with 35 false positives using a database of 500 suspects. They did spot one guy but it turned out he shouldn't have been on the list. The cameras were hidden from the public. Of course the technology will only get better and the country is already stuffed with CCTV cameras.

    Once it's good enough to use, as it apparently now is in Moscow, photos of all suspected criminals can be included. Why stop there though? Might as well add everyone with a driver's licence or passport and in those countries which have them, everyone's identity card as well. Now we can recognize nearly every adult.

    Miscreants could then be identified and arrested much more efficiently, even if they'd never come in contract with the police before. They could just be sent a summons through the post, in the same way ANPR is used for traffic offences.

    Want to arrest those 2,000 people at the illegal demonstration? No problem. No need to send the riot police in (unless you want to). If you're feeling lenient, just send each of them a big fine instead.

  27. Re:In A Stunning Reversal, DHS Concludes No Hackin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, we're turning in our towels. Good luck!

  28. When the west does it it for the citizens by Onthax · · Score: 1

    Gotta love the Bias. When the west does these things it's for the citizens or to stop crime, when russia do it, it's all about the spying.

  29. We live in a closed world. by pntkl · · Score: 1

    "We live in an open world," Ermolaev said. "It’s easy to track that Laura from the sixth apartment is being visited often by Mike from a neighboring building without the city’s surveillance cameras."

    I have to wonder if Artem has read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. It has one of my favorite quotes ('cause I'm eaaasy) that I think fits humanity, from my own perspective.

    In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity.

    Not everyone believes this world is at all open. Still, I say that's exactly as it's intended to be, open. For societies such as in the RF or the USA, it seems we're supposed to believe that's a concept just out of reach. Perhaps it is, for a time, with just enough feet stomping on the fingers of all those hanging on a ledge. As their blood spills in the gully and under the crags of rocks--their cries won't go unheard.