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Tesla Is Shipping Hundreds of Powerwall Batteries To Puerto Rico (futurism.com)
schwit1 quotes a report from Futurism: In a continued streak of goodwill during this year's devastating hurricane season, Tesla has been shipping hundreds of its Powerwall batteries to Puerto Rico in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria. Since the hurricane hit on 20 September, much of the U.S. territory has been left without power -- about 97 percent, as of 27 September -- hampering residents' access to drinkable water, perishable food, and air conditioning. The island's hospitals are struggling to keep generators running as diesel fuel dwindles. Installed by employees in Puerto Rico, Tesla's batteries could be paired with solar panels in order to store electricity for the territory, whose energy grid may need up to six months to be fully repaired. Several power banks have already arrived to the island, and more are en route.
It will be hard to set up enough solar panels quickly to charge powerwalls, but in the meantime they could be charged at locations with power or generators, then moved to points of use. A small generator charging a battery can often be as useful as a larger generator.
and building materiel is going to be prioritised for reconstruction of homes and public structures?
I'm curious to know how you are certain about what they will be prioritizing? I'd think a battery-backed solar array at a local shelter would be very welcome right now, and may indeed take priority over any individual's house.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
hospital?
Power plants. Seriously.
1) Day and night loads are very different from each other. Having storage for loadshifting lets you use a smaller amount of generation infrastructure at a higher capacity factor.
2) Loadshifting also lets you get by on fewer / less capable transmission lines. A good example of this is the old Castle Valley flow battery in Utah, on one of the Rattlesnake lines. By - again - charging at night and discharging during the day, halfway down the line, they help maintain the daytime voltage on the line when it would otherwise be experiencing excessive voltage drop or power quality problems.
"If there was an antonym to 'Elon Musk', it would be 'Richard Branson'."
What's not clear from the article is whether he's donating them or whether he expects to be paid for them later. I know they're not cheap but under the circumstances I'd hope he's giving them away for free.
Kudos for sending batteries.
So, how long are they to last before recharge?
Are they also supplying solar setups to recharge?
How heavy, can they be easily and safely disconnected and reconnected to home electrical after taking somewhere to charge?
What is the plan for disposing of these batteries? That's an awful lot of hazardous environmental waste to be disposed of in what... 1 to 5 years? Leeching all into the ground water...
Exactly. Hospitals, nursing homes, distribution centers, shelters, schools, etc. Lots of great places to have electricity!
Though I suppose hospitals probably need more power than these could provide, and probably are getting priority for generators and diesel.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
so, a cynic could say this is just a marketing stunt, sure. but isn't a marketing stunt that may help people better than another car ad on TV?
i could live a little longer in this prison
...winning the Powerball is more likely to happen than getting assistance from the Trump Administration.
Except that, ya know, the Trump administration IS helping Puerto Rico, albeit it slowly at first. I don't like Trump either but you can't just make stuff up. I believe Mr. Trump himself even coined a two-word term for this kind of bullshit.
Oh this should do wonders for Puerto Rico's neglected electrical grid and it's capacity.
Experts from Germany (Sonnen GmbH) are coordinating and doing install on this project:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news...
Trump meanwhile did helpfully dedicate a golf trophy in honor of Puerto Rico:
http://www.independent.co.uk/n...
In case you didn't know, Puerto Rico is an AMERICAN territory - the people of that territory are American citizens. But our current government for some reason is unwilling/unable to help, and is only much later getting assistance from those who ARE willing/able to help.
Not that I'm just blaming conservatives here - Bill Clinton was the one that signed the bill that removed the tax benefits that attracted a large percent of business to Puerto Rico, leaving their economy 70 billion dollars in debt once it was phased out.
But it DOES take a 'modern conservative' approach to be so completely uncaring/unable to help in this kind of recovery after a disaster.
"Miss, and you lose it all!"
Though I suppose hospitals probably need more power than these could provide
The Powerwalls can be used for load leveling. If a hospital has a 10kw generator and has power needs that fluctuate between 6kw and 12kw, then that is not going to work. But stick in a Powerwall, and it can recharge from the generator when the demand is at 6kw, and supply supplement power to handle the peaks.
Isn't it true that the Electric Utility in Puerto Rico is Owned and Operated by the government?
;)
Is that maybe why, The Electric Utility is having money problems, The Electric Grid was sub par, The disaster Planning was sub par and the fact that the Electric Utility is so totally unprepared to restore the Electric Grid?
My point being, it is to late now to do anything now. So lets not relive the past. But, maybe the Electric Utility should be privatized. There isn't much left and this mightl expedite the rebuilding process. And hopefully put the Electric Utility on firmer footing. That could be more prepared for the future storms to come.
So come on Tesla, Somebody? step up make the future better
"Except that, ya know, the Trump administration IS helping Puerto Rico, albeit it slowly at first. I don't like Trump either but you can't just make stuff up. I believe Mr. Trump himself even coined a two-word term for this kind of bullshit."
Donald, go away.
Funny you should bring in advertising. This is publicity money can't buy, and this is *exactly* why they're doing it.
The problem is that Puerto Rico currently does not have any transmission lines, and so load leveling the power plants that aren't connected to anything is not useful.
Significant percentages of the island are going to be relying on local power generation for months, and you can get a lot more out of a generator and limited amount of fuel when you've got solar panels and battery backs to back them up.
I would imagine they could provide power to the minimum critical areas for a short time in the event of generator failure or a late fuel shipment.
If you actually watched some of the video of PR after the storm, you would have seen solar panels on many roofs.
At least those who covered them to protect them during the storm.
That said, it would also be helpful to send them PV solar panels.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Donald, go away.
LOL! Come on now. If I were Donald Trump my response would've been, "President Trump is helping Puerto Rico, and it's the biggest most greatest help ever given!!! Crooked Hilary wouldn't have helped as bigly as this!! Make Puerto Rico great again!"
How will these Powerwall units be recharged after they have been used up on the first go around?
From solar panels.
The electricity infrastructure is going to be down for quite a while, as the power plants and transmission lines have to be replaced.
Yes, that's exactly why you want the solar panels and battery storage.
Whilst solar panels sound like a good idea, how will you install PV when the vast majority of buildings are wrecked, and building materiel is going to be prioritised for reconstruction of homes and public structures?
I would think that setting up solar panels to provide emergency power would have a high priority. Setting up solar panels (or, repairing some of the installations that already exist on the island) is going to be very quick compared to reconstructing a demolished building; devoting a day or so to restoring the power grid is not going to delay the months-to-years long process of rebuilding the island.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-solar-industry-wants-to-help-puerto-rico.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
You did see that I mentioned Telsa (SolarCity) solar panels... yes? I read the article and I doubt there are a lot of solar panels hanging around PR right now. Not really a fast fix to the populations needs, huh?
I sure wouldn't want to try to carry a useful stack of panels through a hurricane-devastated landscape on foot.
There are these things called helicopters? I've seen videos of them dropping off and picking up soldiers, boxes of stuff and even trucks.
Who knew?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
How will these Powerwall units be recharged after they have been used up on the first go around? The electricity infrastructure is going to be down for quite a while, as the power plants and transmission lines have to be replaced. Whilst solar panels sound like a good idea, how will you install PV when the vast majority of buildings are wrecked, and building materiel is going to be prioritised for reconstruction of homes and public structures?
Thois is yet another cool thing. Our American Army, perhaps the finest in teh world, has on occasion flown in and constructed entire buildings. What is even more, there are the se portable generators, and like they make a lot of power. Just threow in some diesel fuel, and they can make electricity. Why, the US even builds airstrips and bridges in short order. It's pretty fascinating, they even did this sort of thing in WW2.
Or do you think we forgot?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Exactly. Hospitals, nursing homes, distribution centers, shelters, schools, etc. Lots of great places to have electricity!
Though I suppose hospitals probably need more power than these could provide, and probably are getting priority for generators and diesel.
A diesel generator that can power an entire hospital is surprisingly small. I visited a generation site that used a natgas powered turbine to generate electricity and steam heat last year, and they had a diesel backup generator that generated the same amount of power - no steam - and it fit in a building that was maybe 20 by 20 feet. Very small anyhow. Fortunately it was seldom used, as deisel electricity is about as expensive as you can get.
What I think is weird is these Il Duce II apologists who seem to think that the situation there is something the American Military can't cope with.
Kryste, we put Japan back together after WW2.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Well would you look at that, it's an irrelevant political comment with no value.
But you beat it with a post even less valuable. ACs never fail to lower the bar. Hey, there's something on Fox radio now. Turns out the Gunman in Las Vegas was Hillary!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Funny you should bring in advertising. This is publicity money can't buy, and this is *exactly* why they're doing it.
And it's a brilliant move, too, since it gives them a chance to demonstrate to the world the utility of their product and how it solves a problem (lightning-fast rollout of 24/7 power) that "traditional" power grids cannot.
It's one thing for a company to say "give us money and we promise we can do this for you", and a much more powerful thing when the company can say "look what we did for Puerto Rico on a small budget and miniscule timeline".
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
... about how they construct their society. Beggars can't blown away by the hurricane, and nobody cares.
You are seriously fucking evil, troll or no. I just converted to Christianity so I know that you will burn in Hell.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
As written elsewhere: Puerto Rico was heavily damaged; it wasn't mowed to the ground. There still exist power plants and transmission lines (and more coming online - slowly - every day). What matters is stretching what you do have as far as you can.
"If there was an antonym to 'Elon Musk', it would be 'Richard Branson'."
these things called helicopters
fake news.
It looks like a lot of the grid is down, but the plants are operating. So, they can charge, and then swap.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
a few years ago, I was quite impressed with how all the utility poles were made out of reinforced concrete and were up high enough for trees to not be an issue. I have now learned that this is a big fat lesson learned from Hurricane Andrew in particular.
I've never been to Puerto Rico, but from I understand, their utility poles were not built to such standards because to date, they'd been lucky.
Up here in Massachusetts, we don't get much in the way of hurricanes, so most of our utility poles, including the high tension lines, are made out of rotting wood pilings. If it rots too much, it gets "fixed" with 2x4s and some 1/4-20 threaded rods.
There's a lesson in here somewhere, but if Puerto Rico has its act together, they'll probably want to rebuild a little tougher, maybe with distributed storage, maybe with more robust power distribution. I'm a Tesla skeptic, but I'm cheering them on here, since it looks like they have an incentive to demonstrate something working.
"...could be paired with solar panels..."
So the don't actually have solar panels for them, then?
In which case the question would be, what real value shipping chargeable batteries to a place with no electricity?
Wouldn't any generation capacity already be at use in critical functions, ie no spare time to run to charge these things?
-Styopa
I believe Mr. Trump himself even coined a two-word term for this kind of bullshit.
Cov...fefe?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Elon Musk has proven that he can allocate resources in ways that are fruitful for everyone; thus, disregarding a few governmental handouts here and there, people have voluntarily handed over their resources to Musk (e.g., by purchasing his products), and they have done so to such a degree that Musk has built the ability to quickly make large-scale allocations of capital like this.
It's not a privilege; it's an ability, one that has been built up through the careful proof to society that he's worthy of wielding said ability. This is very different from, say, elected officials, who do indeed enjoy privileges (ones that are likely unwarranted).
these things called helicopters
fake news.
Sikorsky was Russian, wasn't he? A coincidence? I think not!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Kryste, we put Japan back together after WW2.
In a week? Because that's what the mainstream media seems to be demanding.
"Mainstream Media" heheh I think this has something to do with PizzaGate and OBlama's birth certificate as well.
I mean, the Democrats were fucking children right? There are children in Puerto Rico,. And Hawaii, the fake place where the Kenyan Terror baby, says he was born - This is an island sitting in the middle of an ocean. It's a big ocean. It's a very big ocean. A coincidence? Hell no, this is the smoking gun that blows the dust off of the truth that FDR started World War two. This is it folks, the end times as prophesied buy Supply side Jesus when he handed out loaves and fishes to the crowd at the sermon on the mount - after they's been drug tested of course.
Your move Dustin.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Surprise surprise it's another irrelevant political comment, with a bonus "you are anonymous therefore less than nothing" insult attempt. It's two cancers for the price of one!
If I've insulted you, I have to say that am deeply and truly quite pleased.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Mind blown.
So, he gets to take a huge write off on his taxes for the donation, and then his sole sourced installers get money for the installation of not only the batteries, but also any solar to supply them.
All while quietly locking everyone else out of the market. In the name of "humanitarian" needs.
--WooooHoooo--
Mind blown.
I have a newsletter, the ideas of which you might find intriguing.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
With 80% of the transmission lines destroyed and the company responsible for rebuilding them essentially bankrupt, there isn't anything there to stretch. The powerwalls will more likely be used for single-structure solar and generator peak shaving. They can't do anything in the short term to help a grid that doesn't exist.
Neither feathers nor kittens would have been my first choice for generating electrical power to charge batteries. My guess is that the weight of feathers and/or kittens needed to provide a megawatt of electrical power would probably be more than the same power generated by solar arrays, but I'd be very interested in hearing the results of your experiment showing the contrary.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
they can charge, and then swap.
You want them to drive Tesla power walls all around the island, charging them up like so many nicad batteries?
They will have a third of these powerwalls in transit to and from the functioning generators at any given time.
BTW, How long does it take to charge a powerwalls?
Ken
Neither feathers nor kittens would have been my first choice for generating electrical power to charge batteries. My guess is that the weight of feathers and/or kittens needed to provide a megawatt of electrical power would probably be more than the same power generated by solar arrays, but I'd be very interested in hearing the results of your experiment showing the contrary.
Seems you cut out all of my part of the post , but here we are. So I'll drop some comments that aren't specifically related to you.
Anyhow, the US military is very capable of setting up mini-cities as need be. They can even do so-called alternative powering schemes. Like Solar https://us.sunpower.com/blog/2... wind - http://www.decentralized-energ... .
They aren't going to set up a big system like the examples shown for PR, but that's where Tesla's PowerWalls really fit the bill. And they can be charged by equally deliverable PV panels.
The remarks by some Slashdotters have been concerning, especially for a site frequented by people presumably tech-savvy. A company does something humanitarian, and Slashdotters don't seem to think the military can deliver it, that it won't work once its there because they can't deliver solar cells, which is kinda weird because they have to believe that something can't be delivered and can be at the same time.
More concerning to me is that our presumed smart people seem to think alternative energy is still in the early 1960's. Too expensive, batteries too little storage capacity, wind power just a toy. All things that have long since been untrue.
Hell, in my area, we have installed enough wind power that they can feather back during off-peak times. It's freaky to see a site starting up and stopping as needed. In fact, wind has made the transition to mainstream energy as far as most around here ae concerned.
Puerto Rico will make good use of these PowerWalls, and Tesla will reap a lot of goodwill and publicity - but Jesus on a pogo stick, it takes a mind like a bag full of warts to hate a humanitarian effort like that.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I don't know. You could probably generate a lot of power with a bunch of kittens on a treadmill and a laser pointer.
80% destroyed = 20% remaining. Meaning having buffer to loadshift their usage seriously helps that 20%.
Also, FYI, "80% was destroyed" != "80 is currently destroyed"
"If there was an antonym to 'Elon Musk', it would be 'Richard Branson'."
My gut tells me that...Elon Musk is doing a good thing, for the sake of doing a good thing. Yes, he does the PT Barnum from time to time, selling promises with great flair, kinda has to...but these PowerWall deliveries are still a good thing, at a very basic human level.
From what I understand, Musk doesn't identify with people on the individual level very much, but more on humanity as a large group. But I'll buy the good thing idea. It fits with his personality.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Seems you cut out all of my part of the post , but here we are. So I'll drop some comments that aren't specifically related to you.
Oops, sorry-- My response had been addressed to the previous post (the one saying solar panels were not light compared to kittens or feathers); I mis-threaded it.
Good comments, if I had mod points I'd mod you up.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Seems you cut out all of my part of the post , but here we are. So I'll drop some comments that aren't specifically related to you.
Oops, sorry-- My response had been addressed to the previous post (the one saying solar panels were not light compared to kittens or feathers); I mis-threaded it.
Good comments, if I had mod points I'd mod you up.
No problem. It gave me the chance to skewer the strange new inhabitants of Slashdot. 8^)
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Just send one of our nuclear subs to provide a source of main power...or maybe a carrier. A carrier would be better of course but they may be too busy threatening countries thousands of miles away from the US.
A nuclear ship could even be a long term solution for PR. It could provide power for the island while they get solar/wind established and rebuild their infrastructure. If bad weather rolls in the ship unplugs and finds clear water until the storm has passed...;)
Honestly, it's power storage.
A recouperating CAES setup is far-superior to battery storage: Far less cost--as in city-scale battery storage cost over 300x what the two leading-edge technology CAES stations cost per megawatt hour stored, while the CAES had better power output. Not bad for technology that's not exactly new, but is just barely entering real-world deployment. Thing is you can get a Tesla powerwall battery pack up and running in an hour; you can't get a city-scale CAES installation running in less than a year.
No, they don't generate electricity; neither does a diesel generator that's run out of fuel. You're going to have trouble keeping the power on, overgenerating and not using, wasting fuel, and the like. You're going to have trouble with the power going out because you're low on fuel. You're going to have trouble with solar and wind not always supplying steady power, even though we can stand either up in a day. The big ass batteries solve that.
If they rebuild PR's power grid on some large solar-wind installation, maybe we can reclaim the batteries and get them a CAES installation later. Whatever. Point is it works now and gives us a quick way to make unstable power more-stable.
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They're more trustworthy than anonymous cowards, that's for sure.
When an AC posts the AC can't rely on reputation. To get the post taken seriously the AC can only rely on readily verifiable or well-known facts and a reasonably understandable chain of reasoning, otherwise they must expect their post to be ignored.
Really? If so, the anonymous cowards do a notoriously lousy job of doing so. Posts by anonymous cowards are almost always lacking in verifiable information, well-known facts, and understandable chains of reasoning, but are good with insults, stereotypes, and fact-free assertions usually grounded in one political ideology or another.
As far as I can tell, the people who post as anonymous cowards do so because they are posting garbage that they don't want associated with their names.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com