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EPA Announces Repeal of Major Obama-Era Carbon Emissions Rule (nytimes.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times (Warning: source may be paywalled; alternative source: The Trump administration announced Monday that it would take formal steps to repeal President Barack Obama's signature policy to curb greenhouse gas emissions from power plants, setting up a bitter fight over the future of America's efforts to tackle global warming. At an event in eastern Kentucky, Scott Pruitt, the head of the Environmental Protection Agency, said that his predecessors had departed from regulatory norms in crafting the Clean Power Plan, which was finalized in 2015 and would have pushed states to move away from coal in favor of sources of electricity that produce fewer carbon emissions. The repeal proposal, which will be filed in the Federal Register on Tuesday, fulfills a promise President Trump made to eradicate his predecessor's environmental legacy. Eliminating the Clean Power Plan makes it less likely the United States can fulfill its promise as part of the Paris climate agreement to ratchet down emissions that are warming the planet and contributing to heat waves and sea-level rise. Mr. Trump has vowed to abandon that international accord.

In announcing the repeal, Mr. Pruitt made many of the same arguments that he had made for years to Congress and in lawsuits: that the Obama administration exceeded its legal authority in an effort to limit greenhouse gas emissions from power plants. (Last year, the Supreme Court blocked the rule from taking effect while courts assessed those lawsuits.) A leaked draft of the repeal proposal asserts that the country would save $33 billion by not complying with the regulation and rejects the health benefits the Obama administration had calculated from the original rule.

24 of 316 comments (clear)

  1. Fuck Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But more importantly:

    Fuck you.

    Trump is the symptom. You are the problem.

    We don't think we're better. We know it.

    1. Re: Fuck Trump by PoopJuggler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trump is a real hero. Nothing says "integrity" like raping the planet to line the pockets of coal interests.

  2. What's next? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's next? Penalize solar and wind and other renewables? Tax people who already have solar panels on their houses and businesses? All so some ass-backwards, mostly dead already coal industry can hang on for a while longer? When will this insanity end?

    1. Re:What's next? by budsetr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, next is tax breaks for coal company owners. Bonus points for each ten cases of black lung!!

    2. Re:What's next? by nobuddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So we can pull all the oil, coal, and gas subsidies as well, and see which ones win out on their own merits. Oil and gas do NOT want to have to compete on an even playing field. That's why they push so hard to end the subsidies for alternatives that they have enjoyed for decades.

    3. Re:What's next? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Coal companies **already** get plenty of tax breaks. As do oil companies. And pretty much every goddamn company in the country.

      It would be a very interesting, very Republican and very unlikely experiment to roll back ALL the tax breaks.

      Let the Invisible hand sort it out.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:What's next? by volkris · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're making quite the leap here.

      So the Trump administration isn't going to illegally punish those who would have been hurt under the CPP, the ones who brought suit to prevent those penalties and were making a successful case that they couldn't have those burdens imposed on them without at least legal authority.

      Just because this administration isn't going to punish one group doesn't mean it's going to punish a different one.

      It means more fairness under the law, not less.

    5. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pollution is a subsidy. Payed for by everyone.

    6. Re:What's next? by volkris · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not much.

      Mainly they get to keep some of the money they earn by providing goods and services to consumers, just like everyone else, which is hardly a subsidy.

    7. Re:What's next? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Every other country on the planet would like to thank the USA for giving us such a generous head start in the renewable energy sector. It surely isn't cheap to hang back and use ancient ultra-polluting forms of energy that will soon be legislated out of existence, and we appreciate it!

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    8. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It would be a very interesting, very Republican and very unlikely experiment to roll back ALL the tax breaks.

      There is a group of Republicans who want this, and are really in favor of fighting for it. There is another group of Republicans who want the tax breaks, and are happy to vote in more (and more spending too!)

      Then there is a group of rational people who realize that if they roll back all tax breaks, they will get voted out of office by people who lost their mortgage interest deduction.

      There's a large chunk of Americans who benefit from tax deductions.

      The invisible hand of the market is going to optimize based on economic considerations, and is usually going to take a shorter term look at things.

      Government can, should, and must put its thumb on the scale to coerce optimal or near optimal longer term conditions while preserving individual rights. One of the things government must watch the long term health of is the environment.

      Now I'm all for getting rid of tax breaks that are not justified. If you can't say model the whole thing and explain how this or that tax breaks benefit exceeds its cost, then the break should and must go, possibly with a corresponding decrease in overall rates.

      Natural gas is what half the carbon of coal? To an extent, coal isn't going to see a miraculous return as long as that is the case, regardless of what Scott does. That doesn't make his actions correct in any way shape or form, just less damaging than they might otherwise be. That is not the invisible hand of the market safeguarding the environment. That is just pure dumb luck.

      I am still less than certain if solar and such is at the point where putting it on everyone's houses with batteries is the way to go, but I do think it is something to aspire for, particularly if we can recycle it all. Nuclear is still on my bucket list for base power, but the problem is, you need to be sure that you always have a regulatory and inspection regime that is top notch. Can you imagine the kind of inept regulators a Trump might put in power? They could easily allow another Tepco mess.

      Obama did his job by appointing competent people who did their jobs to protect and guarantee the future of our country.

      Trump is doing the job he wants done, by saying fuck everything, how can we get some short term gains to make Trump look good and to hell with the long term of the country.

      I personally think it is more than that though. Trump is not playing N-dimensional chess. People bend themselves into pretzels to say that, but it seems more and more like the ravings and rantings of someone who needs to be in an adult day care center, and not in command of the nuclear codes. A rational and ethical man does not put someone who hates environmental protections in charge of protecting the environment or someone who can't remember the energy departments name in charge of the energy department.

  3. Re: When the New York Times is whining... by PoopJuggler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That lump is the cancer that they got from coal plants' particulate emissions

  4. Why a president should never use executive orders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Or appointed federal alphabet soup agencies to craft a legacy (no I'm not talking about SCOTUS appointments). Easy come easy go. I bet the president after Trump will reverse what Trumps EPA did as well. If you want a legacy you get law passed through Congress. How's that healthcare repeal coming? Obamas legacy is in the ACA good or bad.

  5. The market will go where it's already headed by Dan+East · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Free market will drive energy production towards its natural destination, which is away from fossil fuels, and even nuclear. Distributed power generation and storage is where the future (currently) lies - the tipping point has already been reached. Solar production is not skyrocketing because the CAA pushed power companies away from fossil fuels. The core reason is the global manufacturing industry has slowly, and finally, ramped up photovoltaic cell production to the point that it is extremely competitive. Battery technology (not just driven by energy demands, but primarily by mobile computing which requires very high-density, long-lasting batteries) has been increasing steadily as well. Couple the two together and you have a big part of the future of energy production.

    So as with many things in politics, this move is purely... political, and really doesn't matter either way. Sort of like the Paris Agreement.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
  6. Make America a Dump Again! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 5, Insightful
    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  7. Re:Coal is dead by evil_aaronm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ya know, pragmatically, we have only the one planet and I rather like breathing clean air. I also like drinking unpolluted water. I don't have any problem with "wackadoos" fighting to keep things clean and safe. I accept your right to prefer money over clean water and air, but you don't have a right to pollute my water and air in pursuit of money.

  8. Re: When the New York Times is whining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Coal Ash Is More Radioactive Than Nuclear Waste

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/

  9. Re:When the New York Times is whining... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If everybody takes care of their own problems and nobody takes care of everybody's problems, then everybody dies. See: Tragedy of the commons.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  10. Re:Obama executive insanity twisted the law by jenningsthecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If a president doesn't have the backing of the rest of the country, well maybe that's good or bad on any particular issue, but it's reality. He can't legally just dictate policy on his own.

    I don't think Obama broke any laws. He simply did his best to get an important and necessary job done, in the face of opposition from the reality-challenged knuckle-draggers who think that shouting bullshit loud enough and long enough turns it into truth. In this case, that meant getting creative with the legislative framework. I'm sure he would like to have put his initiative on a more solid footing; but his opposition cared more about tearing him down than about exercising actual leadership, so he had little choice.

    (And maybe, just maybe, he might want to reconsider his own position in the process if he finds himself so out of touch with the general perception)

    Ummm, that would be a follower you just described. POTUS is supposed to be a leader; you know, the person who sees what others don't yet see, and makes decisions, (even unpopular ones), based on logic, evidence, and science, for the long-term good of all concerned.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  11. Re: When the New York Times is whining... by amiga3D · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The NYT and other MSM outlets are obsessed with Trump's tweets. Meanwhile he's steadily undoing everything Obama did in the last 8 years and they don't even notice. It's like they lose their fucking minds over little stuff and don't notice the big stuff. He pardoned Arpaio right before Harvey hit. I had turned CNN on because they usually do a good job on Hurricane coverage. It was like they just forgot the Hurricane. It was the hate Trump fest. They are so obsessed over the petty crap and he knows it.

  12. Devoid of ideas of his own by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Devoid of ideas of his own trump just wants to repeal everything that Obama did, whether it is good, bad or indifferent

  13. Re:When the New York Times is whining... by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is, just with alternative facts.

  14. Re:When the New York Times is whining... by dywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    there are only 76,000 coal industry workers in the country.
    that's not just miners, but everyone in the industry: office workers, sales staff, equipment mechanics, etc.
    actual miners are only 50k.

    its a dying industry. destroying the environment for the sake of an industry smaller than the year round ski tourism industry is hardly sound economic policy. there is not and never was a war on coal. coal was killed by free market forces, not governmental ones.

    advancing coal industry objectives is a detriment to the economy and the public health.
    advancing green energy industry is both a much larger economic stimulus (employing more than 10x as many people), its also better for the public health and as a result less of a drain on future economy as fewer people will be sickened by the pollution from burning coal.

    there is no reason to favor the coal industry.
    not in economic terms, not in labor terms, and not in terms related to public health.

    the ONLY reasons to favor the coal industry is out of some misguided left/right partisan stupidity, or being one of their paid shills.
    both of which apply to Pruitt.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  15. This makes America Great again? by trevize42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I remember as a kid in the 1960/70s not being allowed outside during summer vacation due to "Smog Alerts". So glad we're making America great again. Looking forward to the enjoyable times of not letting my kids play outside.