With Camera Permission, iPhone Apps Can Surreptitiously Take Pictures and Videos (vice.com)

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With Camera Permission, iPhone Apps Can Surreptitiously Take Pictures and Videos (vice.com)

Posted by msmash on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @08:00AM from the security-woes dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Whenever you give iPhone apps permission to access your camera, the app can surreptitiously take pictures and videos of you as long as the app is in the foreground, a security researcher warned on Wednesday. This is not a bug, but keep it in mind when a random app asks you for permission to access your camera. What this means is that even if you don't see the camera "open" in the form of an on-screen viewfinder, an app can still take photos and videos. It is unknown how many apps currently do this, but Krause created a test app as a proof-of-concept. This behavior is what enables certain "spy" apps like Stealth Cam and Easy Calc - Camera Eye to exist. But even if this behavior is well-known among iOS developers and hardcore users, it's worth remembering that all apps that have camera permission can technically take photos in this way. "It's something most people have no idea about, as they think the camera is only being used if they see the camera content or a LED is blinking," Krause told Motherboard in a chat over Twitter direct message. Krause currently works at Google, but performed and published this research independently of his work there.

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Thanksgiving 2017 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:04 · Score: 0

Thanksgiving wishes
Android apps can as well by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

So the Google employee also probably knows that Android apps can do the exact same thing. And there are spy camera apps for Android too.
Slow news day, apparently.
1. Re:Android apps can as well by jellomizer · 2017-10-25 08:18 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  But the new iPhone is going to be released soon, and Google doesn't want it to take the Pixel 2 thunder.
  While in actuality. If you are an Android User you will get an Android Phone, if you are an iPhone user you will get an iPhone. But articles like this help justify your belief that your purchase was somehow superior and you are the smarter consumer because of it.
  Because in order to get people to switch to the other, you really need some major new feature that the other will not have shortly... Or the Other finds a way to really screw it up their next generation product, or fails to keep the product up to date over a long period of time.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
2. Re:Android apps can as well by DontBeAMoran · 2017-10-25 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  My next phone will have a feature that both Android and iPhone doesn't have: no applications and no spyware.
  What's the smallest, best flip-phone? I don't even want SMS nor a camera. Just a freakin' phone to make freakin' phone calls. /Dr.Evil
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
3. Re:Android apps can as well by Desler · 2017-10-25 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  Flip phones have both applications and cameras.
4. Re:Android apps can as well by jellomizer · 2017-10-25 08:27 · Score: 0
  
  Translation: I hate all new technology, so I post on technology websites.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
5. Re:Android apps can as well by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:30 · Score: 0
  
  What's your current phone?
6. Re:Android apps can as well by DontBeAMoran · 2017-10-25 08:44 · Score: 1
  
  My current phone is a hand-me-down iPhone 4 but with no sim card, no phone service. Basically an iPod touch.
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
7. Re:Android apps can as well by DontBeAMoran · 2017-10-25 08:46 · Score: 2
  
  Translation: all the new technology is being used to spy on us, tracks everything we do and my profile is being sold to thousands of companies for profits, so I'm falling back to older technology where these assholes can't reach me.
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
8. Re: Android apps can as well by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 09:11 · Score: 0
  
  Fuck you my Pixel is the most secure shit ever man.
  It's like no damn iphone fanboi
9. Re:Android apps can as well by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 09:24 · Score: 0
  
  And your car is a hand me down civic with no engine or windows pulled by a donkey. Basically a donkey cart.
10. Re:Android apps can as well by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 10:32 · Score: 0
  
  Oh, not to worry, they will still reach you.
  Have any friends with smartphones? Congrats, you are in Facebook's facial recog database.
  Ever shop in a brick and mortar store? was it one of the ones using facial recognition to track customers behavior?
  Ever use a credit card to buy anything?
  Are any of your electronics vulnerable to the constant march of de-anonymization techniques? (Hint: the answer is "yes").
  Your behavior will be bought and sold, whether you like it or not.
11. Re:Android apps can as well by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 13:54 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe you'd like this phone:
  The Light Phone.
  It's supposed to be available soon, apparently.
  I think that is pretty much what you're looking for?
12. Re:Android apps can as well by DontBeAMoran · 2017-10-25 16:20 · Score: 1
  
  Out of the box, plug the phone into your computer and download our app. The phone will update, an account will be created, and you will set up your 9 speed dials.
  ... not really.
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
13. Re:Android apps can as well by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-26 03:14 · Score: 0
  
  What Google, Samsung, Essential and other trend following brands do not realise, is, that the people who WANTS an iphone, they BUY an iphone... not a pixel, not a samsung and certainly not an essential phone
  AND..
  the OTHER people, who wants a phone that is NOT an iphone... RARELY buys android phones that are almost exact copies of iphones, such as some samsung, all the new pixels and the essential phone ... there could even be other android phones that try to be iphone wannabes..
  just please let us that do not like iphones, have something DIFFERENT to choose from, we WANT headphone jacks, we WANT replaceable batteries, we WANT SD cards, just to name the basics
14. Re:Android apps can as well by nasch · 2017-10-28 10:49 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think there is such a thing as a cell phone that doesn't do SMS so you're stuck there. I'm not sure if anyone makes a phone that doesn't have additional apps either. If it's less than ten years old you're probably going to have a calendar, calculator, address book, and maybe music, navigation and a game or two.
www.Myschoolzone.com.ng by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:07 · Score: 0

Nice one here www.myschoolzone.com.ng
News? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:07 · Score: 1

I thought everyone knew this.
Oh, it's a vice article. Never mind.
If you give it permission by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:08 · Score: 0

it's not surreptitious.
Ric Romero, is that you? by rsilvergun · 2017-10-25 08:14 · Score: 4, Informative

Give an app permission to use your camera and it can use your camera. Who knew? Also, how slow a news day does it have to be to greenlight something like this?

--
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1. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by jellomizer · 2017-10-25 08:20 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  But we need a reason to hate Apple Products. Otherwise our decision to pick Android Products will seem less important. And buying something that isn't the best deal, is the most mortal sin that an internet user can do today.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
2. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:22 · Score: 0
  
  It bears repeating, although perhaps not on Slashdot.
3. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:30 · Score: 0
  
  Did you bother reading the article? It specifically states that most users (especially of the demographic that's being catered to) think that if you don't see the viewfinder, it's not taking pictures. There's no wording anywhere that says it can do so even if nothing is shown.
  Can it take photos while backgrounded?
4. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:35 · Score: 0
  
  We need to distract people from the fact that the Android flagships - the Pixel 2 line - are plagued by tons of hardware problems (plus the lack of headphone jack, something that Google mocked Apple for in the past, the hypocrites).
  See:
  https://arstechnica.com/gadget...
  https://arstechnica.com/gadget...
  (Ars Tecnica, by the way, still calls it "The best Android phone ever", despite the FACT that it is an overpriced paperweight... no prizes for guessing who sponsored that "unbiased" review)
  This is a made up problem that boils down to "applications that have permission to use camera can use camera". What a shocker.
  Even more shocking, you are informed of this when the app tries to use said permission (for the first time) and can actually manage these permissions in a, frankly, simple way.
  This is a completely fabricated issue.
5. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Obfuscant · 2017-10-25 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Give an app permission to use your camera and it can use your camera. Who knew?
  Yeah. This is a d'oh story. Same thing goes for Android.
  The problem comes when sloppy or malicious programmers write code that wants too many permissions. I am using Mobisytems OfficeSuite and every time I try to look at a document I get the really scary warning that "this app will not work properly" unless Google Play is given permission to access my phone, camera, and occasionally a couple of other things. Sorry? You don't need to access my camera so I can read a document, and it ISN'T A PHONE. Oh, "body sensors" is another mandatory permission for opening an Excel spreadsheet.
  Same thing for the United Airlines app. It demands "camera". Why? So you can get pictures of me being dragged off the airplane without me knowing about it?
6. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by thegarbz · 2017-10-25 09:06 · Score: 1
  
  Nerds knew. But that's kind of the point of the summary, the general thought that has been embedded in smartphone users via rote learning is that camera only does something when it's showing on your screen or flashing an LED.
7. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by tepples · 2017-10-25 09:22 · Score: 1
  
  Same thing for the United Airlines app. It demands "camera". Why?
  I haven't flown in decades, but my first guess involves using the device's rear-facing camera to scan 2D barcodes printed on boarding passes and the like.
8. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Obfuscant · 2017-10-25 09:28 · Score: 1
  
  I haven't flown in decades, but my first guess involves using the device's rear-facing camera to scan 2D barcodes printed on boarding passes and the like.
  It's the United app. They know what boarding passes I have, and my tablet is not used to scan my boarding pass either for TSA or when I get on the plane. There are dedicated scanners at those check points.
  And no, displaying a QR code on a phone or tablet to be scanned by one of those devices does not require "camera" permissions on the display device.
  No valid purpose.
9. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 09:31 · Score: 0
  
  Take it easy there, fuckwit. I'm surprised you did mention Hillary.
10. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Dutch+Gun · 2017-10-25 09:40 · Score: 1
  
  Same thing for the United Airlines app. It demands "camera". Why? So you can get pictures of me being dragged off the airplane without me knowing about it?
  If I had to guess: for taking snaps of QR codes of tickets or boarding passes displayed on a kiosk or home computer.
  Do you know what I've love to see? When developer submit apps to the store, they are also required to submit a single line for each requested permission which explains WHY they are requesting that permission. What feature requires this? The user could then just tap on a permission to see what it's being used for, and decide whether or not it's a feature they care about.
  At the very least, you could at least force app developer to attempt to justify themselves. A lack of a good explanation would be tantamount to either sloppy programming or malicious intent.
  
  --
  Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
11. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 11:57 · Score: 0
  
  It's for scanning passports for Real ID checkins on international flights.
12. Re: Ric Romero, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 12:22 · Score: 0
  
  Android fanbois sure hate it when people point out that even Google's best effort can't hold a candle to Apple's so-so refresh of their flagship product.
  The Pixel line was supposed to be Google's flagship. Unlike the Nexus line, the Pixel was actually supposed to compete with Android OEMs and compete with the iPhone.
  Here's the result: an expensive phone with a crap screen, a crapped out DAC, no headphone jack and no sdcard slot. It is also trounced by the iPhone in pretty much every performance metric, and Google already said that they will only support it with updates for 2 years.
  Pathetic.
  At least it hasn't blown up... yet.
13. Re: Ric Romero, is that you? by Obfuscant · 2017-10-25 12:25 · Score: 1
  
  It's for scanning passports for Real ID checkins on international flights.
  The United app on my phone or tablet is not going to be used to scan anything, much less my passport. Don't be stupid. Neither TSA nor United need to use my phone to scan their documents, they have their own scanners. Why would they trust a device that I control to do such things in the first place?
  Sheesh.
  I actually asked about it a long time ago. It's intended for social media so I can show everyone how I am smiling during a United flight.
14. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 13:17 · Score: 0
  
  Eh, I think this is useful to point out. As others have commented, most users believe that if the "viewfinder" isn't on screen, that the camera isn't being accessed. That there is no reliable indicator of current camera access is a real problem. It's useful to bring this up, and hopefully pressure mobile OS makers to fix it. I could see something as simple as the OS forcing the viewfinder view onto the screen, with no way for the app to cover it up. Simple, done.
  It's similar to how iOS handles photo permissions. If an app needs to access a single photo, or just save an image to your photo library, the permission gives it access to your entire library. Any app that's been granted this permission could be surreptitiously uploading your entire library to their servers. This also needs fixing with finer-grained permissions. Write-only access, read-only access to specific selected photos (system selection dialog), or only in rarely needed cases, read access to the entire library.
15. Re:Ric Romero, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 22:54 · Score: 0
  
  The point is it can do it without notifying the user by LED or on-screen notification -- the camera, drivers, and hardware has been specifically designed to allow pictures and video to be taken without the user's knowledge.
  It is/was the same on MacBooks and macOS. It could even be exploited through Safari without any specific settings or priviliges, which was revealed by a security researcher who put up a public webpage to demonstrate it.
  Do you still think Apple and Gov aren't all up in your shit with your iPhone and MacBook? Think again.
16. Re: Ric Romero, is that you? by jellomizer · 2017-10-26 01:35 · Score: 1
  
  Be careful there. There are many metrics that the Pixel 2 beats the iPhone 8 in (Same CPU as the iPhone X). If you want to say the iPhone is better then the Android you pick the features which it excels in and tout them as important, and dismiss the features it isn't as good in. Or you could do it the other way too. Who knows what problems that iPhone X will have. This is the first Apple Phone with an OLED screen, so it may have the burn in problem too, there are also a bunch of other new features that may not work well in mass produced state. If you are going to get the iPhone X, I would probably recommend the Apple Care, as you may get a bunch of extra problems at first.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
17. Re: Ric Romero, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-26 07:16 · Score: 0
  
  Don't be stupid, indeed. It's just a Google search away:
  https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-i10702-k10441703-Scanning_passport_with_United_app_on_Iphone7-Air_Travel.html
  As for your "social media" nonsense--no. How exactly do you get the United app to take a selfie? Hint: there is no such functionality.
  The only way to trigger the camera API in the app is to scan a passport or other identity document for pre-clearance. It's a convenience feature, not an essential one, and it doesn't substitute for security checkpoints.
  In summary, eat shit, jackass.
No Shit by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:16 · Score: 0

Same thing with the microphone. This is news?
Huh? by Desler · 2017-10-25 08:20 · Score: 1

A security researcher was needed to know that if you give something camera access that it can use your camera to take pictures and video? Isn’t that the whole point of allowing an app access to the camera? What else did they think the permission granted?
1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:48 · Score: 0
  
  I don't know, maybe think the permission stands only when the app is active in front? Sure there are apps that could use the permission while it's in the background, but most programs don't need that. So the permission should be divided in to two permissions: when in front and when in back.
  I'm just wondering, do you know what each permission does that you give? The answer is no you don't.
2. Re:Huh? by Desler · 2017-10-25 09:50 · Score: 2
  
  While it’s the background? Huh? To quote the summary:
  
  the app can surreptitiously take pictures and videos of you as long as the app is in the foreground
People don't care by DogDude · 2017-10-25 08:21 · Score: 1

99.99% of people don't give a shit.

--
I don't respond to AC's.
1. Re:People don't care by Desler · 2017-10-25 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  Why would they? The whole point of allowing the permission is to allow apps to use your camera.
2. Re:People don't care by InvalidsYnc · 2017-10-25 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Probably more of the point of it is if that "Destiny 2 super companion app" asks you for permission to use your camera and microphone, tell it to F off, as there should be no reason for it to have access to those.
3. Re:People don't care by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:31 · Score: 0
  
  They won't until they care so much, they are ready to hang the person who "let this slip".
  Typical way they operate.
4. Re:People don't care by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:35 · Score: 0
  
  Well I for one do feel sympathy for those poor Ukranian hackers. Like when I'm sitting naked with my iPhone on the lap. Looking at my hairy schlong and ballsack is something I don't even like to see.
  So no, some of us 0.01%ers do care about humanity.
5. Re:People don't care by Obfuscant · 2017-10-25 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  tell it to F off, as there should be no reason for it to have access to those.
  And then some apps will tell you to F off, they aren't going to run. I have a Galaxy Tab, and the "Galaxy Apps" demands access to "phone" and "contacts". It has no need to know my contacts, and it isn't a phone so it doesn't need 'phone'. If I don't give it those permissions, it just closes.
  I have no idea what services "galaxy apps" would provide to me because of that. If Samsung is trying to differentiate its product by giving me wonderful free apps that do great things, then it should know it is accomplishing just the opposite.
Spying on you in every way possible by Seven+Spirals · 2017-10-25 08:28 · Score: 1

That's the business model. As Bruce Schneier says it's a "Surveillance Business Model". That's the "deal". They give you a set of crappy applications for free, you ignore the fact that they can and will spy on you the maximum degree they think they can get away with (and beyond if they think they can hide their activities from you). OF COURSE these apps are gonna take your picture without you knowing. If they thought they could hold pictures of you fucking your wife for ransom, they'd do that too. If they can convert your everyday speech to text and log your entire day's conversation to mine with AI for marketing tips or other ways to pull some kind of overseas Bitcoin blackmail, THEY WILL. If you think that last bit came from my tinfoil hat, you must have been asleep when Samsung did it with their smart TVs while they were supposedly turned off. All this spying and dishonestly is really fundamentally part of the new corporate business model. It's not a fluke, or news; it's the new normal.
Why we need physical switches standard by HalAtWork · 2017-10-25 08:30 · Score: 1

I don't need those permissions active all the time. Plus there's bugs and hacks.

--
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1. Re:Why we need physical switches standard by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 10:32 · Score: 0
  
  Which is you are able to just go into the settings and enable/disable the camera permissions on a per-app basis.
Uh... duh? by wonkey_monkey · 2017-10-25 08:31 · Score: 1

Whenever you give iPhone apps permission to access your camera, the app can surreptitiously take pictures and videos of you
Wow, really? Whoever would have guessed?

but performed and published this research

This is hardy research. I certainly hope it isn't the epitome of this secury researcher's career.

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Remember the Geek squad tech story? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:34 · Score: 0

The customer had an issue with her laptop as soon as she booted it when she got home from wherever. Well, the tech knew his stuff, and 'programmed' the thing to send video from her laptop camera so he knew to remote access her desktop, but the video was good enough to begin with. Guess he was caught, because it did appear on slashdot.
Felix Krause by 110010001000 · 2017-10-25 08:37 · Score: 1

The "researcher" is Felix Krause, who works for Google. His previous revelation was that apps could create input dialogs that look like password entry screens. He neglected to mention that Android phones have the same "flaws".
Let's stop using our smartphone by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 08:48 · Score: 0

Oh man ... I think we should just stop using our smart phones.
No shit, Sherlock? by nospam007 · 2017-10-25 08:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Whenever you give iPhone apps permission to access your camera, the app can surreptitiously take pictures and videos "
I'm flabbergasted, next you'll tell us if I give them permission to use the microphone, they can listen to us.
1. Re:No shit, Sherlock? by R3d+M3rcury · 2017-10-25 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  In their defense, one issue you might run into would be a one-time-use thing.
  For example, iTunes wants to use your camera so that it can read your iTunes card and update your balance. Which is a good thing. And when it asks if it can use your camera, it says that it only wants to do it so that it can read your iTunes card.
  But what's to say it isn't doing it for other purposes? It certainly can because I said, "Yeah, okay, iTunes can use the camera."
  Now, I don't remember if there's a "Ask Each Time" option or not. But perhaps there should be...
  As an aside, Apple aficionados, I'm not implying that Apple is doing this. It's merely an example.
QR scanning needs camera permission by tepples · 2017-10-25 09:24 · Score: 1

if that "Destiny 2 super companion app" asks you for permission to use your camera and microphone, tell it to F off, as there should be no reason for it to have access to those.
I don't know about that. Does Destiny 2 expose an API for companion apps that allows syncing a companion app to a player's account by photographing a 2D barcode displayed on the screen?
1. Re:QR scanning needs camera permission by nasch · 2017-10-28 10:56 · Score: 1
  
  If it does, the app permission dialog should clearly explain that, and then if the permission is refused the other features of the app should continue to work normally.
2. Re:QR scanning needs camera permission by tepples · 2017-10-28 12:18 · Score: 1
  
  if the permission [to photograph a barcode representing a user account] is refused the other features of the app should continue to work normally.
  What would the companion app do without being logged in? If the user refuses the means by which the user logs in, how are the "other features of the app" supposed to authenticate in order to "continue to work normally"? Or would you prefer to require players to key in a 32-digit UUID displayed on the screen?
3. Re:QR scanning needs camera permission by nasch · 2017-10-28 13:59 · Score: 1
  
  IIRC from when I used the Destiny app, display news and general information about the game.
Separate foreground and background permissions by tepples · 2017-10-25 09:27 · Score: 2

Perhaps the intent is that "foreground microphone" and "background microphone" ought to be split into separate permissions, as ought "foreground camera" and "background camera".
1. Re:Separate foreground and background permissions by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 20:30 · Score: 0
  
  The summary specifically says that it's only while the app is in the foreground. So there is no background camera permission.
2. Re:Separate foreground and background permissions by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-26 02:42 · Score: 0
  
  Yup, the app must be in the foreground, but when there it can do camara-y things without bothering to inform the user.
And get your facial pattern by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 10:01 · Score: 0

Thanks iPhone X! :)
Lots of snarky replies to this one, but ... by King_TJ · 2017-10-25 11:13 · Score: 2

I think it's still a really valid question.... Why aren't these phones designed so an indicator light on them has to be lit if the camera is in use by something? Wire that up in the hardware so it's not a light you can bypass via clever software coding.
Even if you don't care a bit about some app trying to sneakily take pictures or video while you have it running in the background, that impacts your battery life so you'd want to know about it just for that reason.
Just because I grant an app permission to use the camera doesn't mean I'm ok with it trying to mis-use the camera input for other purposes than its stated function it performs while in the foreground.
1. Re:Lots of snarky replies to this one, but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-25 23:07 · Score: 0
  
  The iPhones and MacBooks aren't designed that way, because they must be able to function as a complete recording device without the user's knowledge, IF CERTAIN PARTIES NEEDS IT TO.
  The certain parties are most likely U.S. Gov, who will send court orders via NSA to make these changes happen, and if they don't, whoever receives the order will be thrown in a federal prison for 5 years on account of "aiding the enemy" or "endangering the security of the nation".
2. Re:Lots of snarky replies to this one, but ... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-26 02:33 · Score: 0
  
  Why aren't these phones designed so an indicator light on them has to be lit if the camera is in use by something?
  Because tape exists.
Why no notification icons? by hankwang · 2017-10-25 19:25 · Score: 1

Hardware real-estate is precious. You could use a multi-color notification light, but I already have trouble remembering which color means what.
Instead, just use a notification icon. Android supports screenshotting through 3rd-party apps, but will show an icon whenever a screenshot is being taken. The same could be done for the camera and microphone. Although the microphone may be troublesome in the case of always-on "ok google" detection.

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