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Hole In The Ozone Layer Smallest In 29 Years (weather.com)

An anonymous reader quotes the Weather Channel: The hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica is the smallest it's been since 1988, NASA said. According to a press release, the hole in the Earth's ozone layer is 1.3 million square miles smaller than last year and 3.3 million square miles smaller than 2015... This year, the hole grew to 7.6 million square miles. NASA and NOAA scientists said warmer temperatures and a stormier upper atmosphere helped keep damaging chemicals chlorine and bromine from eating ozone from the layer that protects the Earth's surface from harmful ultraviolet rays... The hole that hovers over Antarctica has been slowly recovering, scientists say, due to an international ban on harmful chemicals that were previously used in refrigerants and aerosols.

The hole was its largest in 2000 and measured 11.5 million square miles. Although recovery is underway, the size of the hole remains large compared to the 1980s, when the hole was first detected, NASA noted. And while there has been significant healing of the ozone layer in recent years, some scientists say full healing is a slow process and will not occur until sometime in the 22nd century, Yale Environment 360 reports. Others expect the Antarctic ozone hole to recover back to 1980 levels around 2070, NASA said.

30 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. This shows we can handle environmental problems by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is a really good demonstration that we can handle serious environmental problems if we put in the effort, and we can do so without substantial economic impact. Yes, global warming is a more large scale problem than ozone depletion but the basic point remains. We've now essentially solved both the ozone hole problem and acid rain, through a combination of market forces, better technology, and government incentives. We can do the same for global warming. Let's actually do that. Unfortunately, over the last few years, some aspects of the right in the US have become so against helping the environment that they are blocking any serious attempt to deal with these issues, and we'll all going to suffer as a result.

    1. Re:This shows we can handle environmental problems by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We've mostly "mastered" it because industries found inexpensive replacements for pollutants and they managed to use imposing pollution standards as a way to stem competition from poorer nations that cannot match environment standards and thus can't enter markets that require industries to heed standards.

      It's not that easy this time. China is way ahead in its "green" industry efforts while your head honcho is trying to push coal. If you forced environmental standards onto industries, the US would not be among the winners this time.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:This shows we can handle environmental problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      your head honcho is trying to push coal

      Correction: Clean Coal

      Clean American coal is the future for America and America's energy supply

    3. Re:This shows we can handle environmental problems by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

      Indeed.

      This is the reason I'm still (cautiously) optimistic about humanity: scientists discovered chlorofluorcarbons were destroying the ozone layer, and you know what? Humans PHASED THEM OUT.
      Sometimes humans DO do the right thing.
      http://www.theozonehole.com/im...

      We've mostly "mastered" it because industries found inexpensive replacements for pollutants and they managed to use imposing pollution standards as a way to stem competition from poorer nations that cannot match environment standards and thus can't enter markets that require industries to heed standards.

      Citation needed. And to a credible source, please. Or, to phrase this more bluntly: you're wrong.

      The drop in production of ozone destroying CFCs started well before the Montreal protocol-- humans stopped using the ozone-destroying CFCs without being legally required to.

      It turns out, actually, that humans are very good at solving problems. Once we clearly identify a problem, there are a lot of people who are willing to work hard at finding solutions.

      It's what we do.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    4. Re:This shows we can handle environmental problems by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      No no no, you got it all wrong!
      It is a clear case that the alarmists 30 years ago had no clue at all!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  2. agw by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's why we have global warming. Shouldn't have covered it up so some of the steam can come out, keep things cooler. I don't know what NASA is doing, I think for three minutes and I come up with better ideas than all of NASA scientists. This is why Donald Trump got elected wake up.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:agw by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      That's nothing. Wait till I tell you what I read in the Voynich manuscript. The noodle is going to blow your mind. IFOs all over the place (for those people who are not yet awake, an IFO is like a UFO but I. People like you are why we got stuck with Trump). On the seventh page of the manuscript it clearly states poe's law is the best law.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  3. Thank Bush 41 by known_coward_69 · · Score: 4, Informative

    he pushed through an amendment to the clean air act in 1989 to ban the use of ozone depleting chemicals

    1. Re:Thank Bush 41 by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The parties switched ideologies in the last 15 years or so.

      A convenient but false narrative. Convenient because it allows people to rationalize their support of the party of racists and bigots.

      What has happened is that the center of politics has shifted to the right, so that the Dems are now where the Republicans were a few years ago and the Republicans are far to the right.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  4. Thanks to international government regulations by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's a good thing this happened in the 70's and 80's when conservatives were still reasonable. The montreal protocol would have never passed today. Australians and those in the southern united states would be red and blistered and hollering about "hands off my fridge" and liberal conspiracies about invisible rays.

    1. Re:Thanks to international government regulations by rmdingler · · Score: 2
      So true, although it's important to note that still reasonable applies to both sides of the aisle nowadays.

      It seems counter-intuitive that we would be moving backwards in so many ways, with the free proliferation of information currently available to everyman; yet, that's where we are, with every fringe belief able to find something on the interwebz that seems to confirm his/her preconceived notion of the way things are.

      More access to information seemingly does not promote clarity, but confusion, as the volume available obfuscates even science and uncommon sense.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    2. Re:Thanks to international government regulations by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nonsense, as usual from the far left wing. Maybe you should examine the facts instead of the rag you read that espouses those collectivist views you adore so much.

      But who cares. We are in charge now. Maybe it's now time to shut down all left wing press, thought, websites, groups, since you're so completely off the rails and unreasonable.

      Just a thought.

      While throwing out the 1st Amendment or maybe the whole Constitution.

    3. Re:Thanks to international government regulations by thrich81 · · Score: 2

      I well remember all the crying and whining about how we'd have to give up refrigeration and air conditioning when this happened. Exactly the same sentiments when the laws phasing out leaded gasoline came into force -- we were going to have to give up cars. Now those people were the real doom and gloom snowflakes -- civilization ending because we needed to make some technological changes to existing infrastructure and technology.

    4. Re:Thanks to international government regulations by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 2

      But who cares. We are in charge now. Maybe it's now time to shut down all left wing press, thought, websites, groups, since you're so completely off the rails and unreasonable.

      Perhaps you could round up undesirable groups into concentration camps. I'm sure you would like to.

    5. Re:Thanks to international government regulations by wyHunter · · Score: 2

      The left has been pretty good about throwing out the whole constitution too - not ordinary people, but leftist leaders.

  5. Note to Republicans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Montreal Protocol is an international agreement to reduce emissions of ozone-depleting gases. It was ratified in 1989 with leadership from the United States, and has been very successful at reducing the ozone hole. President Reagan and President Bush (41) both supported the Montreal Protocol. Reagan overruled members of the cabinet who opposed the agreement. The State Department under the Bush administration warned that we cannot wait on acting to prevent climate change. History should remember these Republicans favorably as accepting science and taking action to mitigate climate change. Modern Republicans should take note. The Republican Party was not always willing to deny science for the purpose of helping big business.

    1. Re:Note to Republicans by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's really crazy about this is that the older ones of us will remember Reagan well.

      If I told you in 88 that Reagan will be considered in hindsight to be a level headed, sensible, intelligent and fairly moderate Republican, you'd probably have looked at me like I had three heads.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Note to Republicans by rmdingler · · Score: 2
      Tip O'Neil, "Bedtime for Bonzo" jokes, and "I didn't vote for Nancy" bumper stickers... Bush 41 calling Reagan's trickle-down tax breaks for the wealthy "Voodoo Economics" before joining him as his running mate.

      Lest our propensity to wax nostalgic gets too far out of hand, let's not forget that during The Reagan's time in office is when the War on Drugs really ramped up and there was that Iran-Contra debacle...

      Sigh! Compared to what we have today, it does sound pretty dreamy!

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:Note to Republicans by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Things were pretty well run by Bush after that.

      No. Bush and Reagan did not like each other. Bush was not part of the White House inner circle, and he had very little influence during Reagan's presidency. In 1988, Reagan gave him a late and lukewarm endorsement as his successor, 20 minutes into a pre-recorded speech focusing mostly on other issues.

    4. Re:Note to Republicans by gtall · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And, Reagan got snookered by Tip O'Neill. Reagan would get his tax cuts and O'Neill would cut the appropriations. O'Neill never followed through and knew that his caucus didn't give a flying rat's ass what O'Neill promised Reagan, it was an empty promise.

      Reagan at least knew that cutting taxes would increase the deficit and hence wanted the appropriations cut. When that didn't happen, his administration discovered voodoo economics. The economy was fueled by deficit spending and the beginnings of the tech revolution. Also the business cycle recovered from Carter's years.

      The current lot of Republicans never learned that lesson. They somehow believe that since Kennedy cut taxes and increased tax receipts as a result, they can do the same thing. When taxes are that high (over 70% in some cases), that works. When taxes are relatively low like now, it doesn't work. They figure if they give companies and rich people more money, they'll invest in more business. What they leave out is that demand hasn't changed. Businessmen and rich people aren't stupid, they won't invest to meet non-existent demand.

      Republicans also feel nostalgia for Bill Clinton and the boom economy of the 1990s. That happened because of the tech boom and the race to fix Y2K. Once that was over, in approx. April-May of 2000, the economy started tanking.

      Believing a lie is never a recipe for success.

    5. Re:Note to Republicans by Carewolf · · Score: 2

      What's really crazy about this is that the older ones of us will remember Reagan well.

      If I told you in 88 that Reagan will be considered in hindsight to be a level headed, sensible, intelligent and fairly moderate Republican, you'd probably have looked at me like I had three heads.

      That would be an insane statement to make. You forget the word "relative to modern idiots". He was still an belligerent dumbass, with fiscal policies so dangerous they are still running the US into the ground today. (loan money and spend them to prop up the economy, and just give tax cuts and ignore the giant hole in the budget they leave, people will love you for it!)

  6. CO2 ppm - next target by millertym · · Score: 2

    Humanity could fix the CO2 global warming issue as well, faster than expected, if united in focus on changing the current status quo.

    1. Re:CO2 ppm - next target by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Humanity could fix the CO2 global warming issue as well, faster than expected, if united in focus on changing the current status quo.

      Unlikely. The ozone layer was badly affected by a few chemicals for which we found alternatives. The vast majority of our energy production comes from fossil fuels and there's more people who want a higher standard of living every day. Even with a massive increase in renewable energy, green technology etc. total emissions are going up and will likely continue to rise as a billion Indians follow China, they're now roughly where China was 25 years ago. You can get a big report here (PDF) that'll break it down in more detail, long story short bringing the rest of the world up to western standards of living is another +50-100% added to CO2 emissions. Those who want to make cuts just draw lines downwards and ignore that there are huge structural reasons for increases that need to be offset before we're even stable.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  7. Poe's Law [Re:agw] by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can't tell if you're serious or joking. I reread your post about 5 times and I just can't tell.

    Poe's law. You really can't tell sarcasm from cluelessness any more.

    http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/poes-law

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  8. Clear and present by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Before we pat ourselves on the back, we should remember that the Trump administration just appointed a man to the EPA advisory board who believes that the air in America is, "a little too clean for optimum health".

    No, I'm not joking. That's what he said. .

    https://www.independent.co.uk/...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  9. Ha - fix one, break another by DCFusor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fixing the ozone hole (freon) by replacing freon with hydrofluorcarbons was a big mistake, they are far more potent greenhouse gases. Don't pat humans on the back yet, we're not that smart. Ref: https://phys.org/news/2017-11-... Citation provided.

    --
    Why guess when you can know? Measure!
  10. Largest CFC114 source retired in 2013 by MrKaos · · Score: 2

    Until 25 years ago every can of spray and every fridge was "powered" by CFCs, since we abolished them the Ozone layer is recovering slowly.

    However the Paducah Gaseous Diffusion Plant was the largest emitter of CFC114 into the atmosphere for many years due to the miles of pipes that it used to pump the gas to enrich uranium in the form of Uranium hexafluoride or "Hex". CFC-114 was one of the gasses known to deplete the ozone layer and was regulated by the Montreal Protocol. The Nuclear Industry had an exemption to the M.P so it could use CFC114 in the enrichment process and while it was still operating it leaked over a ton of CFC114 into the atmosphere each day of those 25 or so, years. The plant was closed down in 2013 so it isn't very surprising that the hole in the ozone layer is starting to recover.

    CFC114 is the primary chemical input to enriching Nuclear fuel prior to its use in Nuclear Reactors. Several years ago I was curious about this and I used data available from the US EPA web site on licenced CFC emitters and discovered that the largest emitter there was from the Paducah Gaseous Diffusion Plant. Its a shame the EPA has had so much of their potency knobbled for political expediency of both sides because this is a great example of how it produces positive results in the long term.

    It shows humans can fix problems when we are open and honest about the data and what it means, that our systems can work when we let them.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  11. Editing? by SeaFox · · Score: 2

    ...the hole in the Earth's ozone layer is 1.3 million square miles smaller than last year and 3.3 million square miles smaller than 2015... This year, the hole grew to 7.6 million square miles.

    If the 2017 size is 1.3m sq mi smaller than 2016, how did the hole "grow" to 7.6 million sq miles?

  12. Re: This shows we can handle environmental problem by clovis · · Score: 3, Informative

    The annual ozone hole is a natural phenomenon, but historically the hole was a small fraction of the size than what we have had since the 1980's.
    https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.g...
    Compare the 1979-1982 ozone hole size and Antarctica ozone levels before 1983 to after.

    That the ozone depletion/ozone hole continued to grow after the Montreal agreement was predicted.
    The problem we faced is that the rate of production of CFCs vastly exceeded the rate of degradation of CFCs in the atmosphere so we were facing an accelerating rate of ozone depletion. The ozone hole was growing rapidly in size every year, and the global ozone levels were decreasing.
    https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/csd/...

    The problem CFCs and related compounds have a very long lifetime in the lower atmosphere, on the order of a century, and on the order of decades in the stratosphere. Once a CFC is degraded by UV and releases a free chlorine or bromine, the free Cl or Br atom can continue to catalyze ozone to O2 for a few years before the free atom binds with hydrogen and falls back down to the lower atmosphere and get washed out.

    Here's a document with graphs showing the continuing post-Montreal increase and subsequent drop-off in atmospheric concentrations.
    https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/csd/...

    Here's an executive summary of the situation in 2014.
    https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/csd/...

    Actions taken under the Montreal Protocol have led to decreases in the atmospheric abundance of controlled ozone-depleting substances (ODSs), and are enabling the return of the ozone layer toward 1980 levels.
          The sum of the measured tropospheric abundances of substances controlled under the Montreal Protocol continues to decrease. Most of the major controlled ODSs are decreasing largely as projected, and hydrochlorofluorocarbons (HCFCs) and halon-1301 are still increasing. Unknown or unreported sources of carbon tetrachloride are needed to explain its abundance.
          Measured stratospheric abundances of chlorine- and bromine-containing substances originating from the degradation of ODSs are decreasing. By 2012, combined chlorine and bromine levels (as estimated by Equivalent Effective Stratospheric Chlorine, EESC) had declined by about 10–15% from the peak values of ten to fifteen years ago. Decreases in atmospheric abundances of methyl chloroform (CH3CCl3), methyl bromide (CH3Br), and chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) contributed approximately equally to these reductions.
          Total column ozone declined over most of the globe during the 1980s and early 1990s (by about 2.5% averaged over 60S to 60N). It has remained relatively unchanged since 2000, with indications of a small increase in total column ozone in recent years, as expected. In the upper stratosphere there is a clear recent ozone increase, which climate models suggest can be explained by comparable contributions from declining ODS abundances and upper stratospheric cooling caused by carbon dioxide increases.
          The Antarctic ozone hole continues to occur each spring, as expected for the current ODS abundances. The Arctic stratosphere in winter/spring 2011 was particularly cold, which led to large ozone depletion as expected under these conditions.
          Total column ozone will recover toward the 1980 benchmark levels over most of the globe under full compliance with the Montreal Protocol. This recovery is expected to occur before midcentury in midlatitudes and the Arctic, and somewhat later for the Antarctic ozone hole.

  13. UNEP Ozone Reporting Tool by MrKaos · · Score: 2

    It turns out, actually, that humans are very good at solving problems. Once we clearly identify a problem, there are a lot of people who are willing to work hard at finding solutions.

    True that.

    The drop in production of ozone destroying CFCs started well before the Montreal protocol-- humans stopped using the ozone-destroying CFCs without being legally required to.

    Whilst not speaking to cause the UNEP ozone secretariat does report on ozone consumption per its obligations under the Montreal Protocol. It reports consumption and effect of ozone through reporting mechanisms.

    The US's consumption can be clearly seen using the Data Reporting Tool and it is in line with the consumption of the producer, The Paducah nuclear fuel enrichment facility for the years it was operating.

    I think you are right to say that industry did a good job of reducing their consumption, they did. I looked at the EPA data in 2009 and Paducah facilities consumption was five times that of the second largest consumer in the US. Consequently if you look at the UNEP data the US submitted for the years 2000-2016 you will see Paducah's consumption during operation, winding down and retirement was large enough to maintain the hole in the ozone layer.

    I would post a link to the EPA data however it is no longer available online.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.