Philippine Outsourcing Industry Braces For AI (reuters.com)

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Philippine Outsourcing Industry Braces For AI (reuters.com)

Posted by msmash on Thursday November 9, 2017 @04:00AM from the shape-of-things-to-come dept.

The outsourcing industry in the Philippines, which has dethroned India as the country with the most call centers in the world, is worried that the rise of artificial intelligence (AI) will eat into the $23 billion sector. From a report: AI-powered translators could dilute the biggest advantage the Philippines has, the wide use of English, an industry meeting was told this week. Other AI applications could take over process-driven jobs. The Philippines' business process outsourcing (BPO) industry is an economic lifeline for the Southeast Asian nation of 100 million people. It employs about 1.15 million people and, along with remittances from overseas workers, remains one of the top two earners of foreign exchange. "I don't think our excellent command of spoken English is going to really be a protection five, 10 years from now. It really will not matter," said Rajneesh Tiwary, chief delivery officer at Sutherland Global Services.

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Clearly by fluffernutter · 2017-11-09 04:04 · Score: 2

Clearly, they all need to become plumbers or electricians. I wonder how many journeyman positions are available in the Philippines right now?

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
1. Re:Clearly by Gilgaron · 2017-11-09 04:16 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Probably good job prospects, just wait for whoever did work on Duterte's house to submit a bill and once they get machine gunned down as a drug dealer then a new job opens up!
2. Re:Clearly by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 04:34 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah not a lot of sympathy here either. What globalism gives, globalism can take away. Nothing wrong or unfair about that, pick yourself up by the bootstraps and adapt.
3. Re:Clearly by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 05:21 · Score: 0
  
  Your parody is indistinguishable from the real thing.
  I've got mine, screw you. *DWI glasses*
4. Re:Clearly by retchdog · 2017-11-09 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  "keeping business running"
  that sounds pretty close to socialism.
  
  --
  "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
5. Re:Clearly by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 05:44 · Score: 0
  
  Don't they do that already with a distinctive Catholic twist? It doesn't seem to help dealing with the Islamic rebels of the south though.
6. Re:Clearly by ShanghaiBill · 2017-11-09 05:48 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Probably more jobs in the muslim terrorist industry....
  That is mostly in Mindanao. "Muslim terrorism" has been going on there since the 1500s. Arab traders reach the Philippines a few decades before the Spanish. The "muslim problem" is irrelevant to the lives of most Filipinos, and is only emphasized by the government to get more American anti-terrorism dollars.
7. Re:Clearly by ShanghaiBill · 2017-11-09 06:04 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Maybe they could implement a comprehensive, mandatory and free basic education system
  They already have that. The literacy rate in the Philippines is 96.3%, which is about the same as the rest of Southeast Asia.
  
  The amount of workers leaving the country to work elsewhere suggests there is lot to be changed and developed within the country.
  Many of those expat workers are educated: Nurses in Hong Kong, engineers in Dubai, etc.
  Some problems in the Philippines: High birthrate, corruption, dysfunctional legal system, lots of crime, high levels of inequality.
8. Re:Clearly by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 06:58 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, it's not like ISIS killed 60 Philippine soldiers in an open battle for territory
9. Re:Clearly by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 07:12 · Score: 0
  
  Given the low quality of housing in that part of the world that is actually sound advice.
10. Re:Clearly by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 07:25 · Score: 0
  
  Literacy rate is not the end-all of a basic education. The harmonizing of values is another important goal of such universal education. It would be nice to have those kids combing the garbage dumps in Philippines to do what kids should be doing, instead of ending up in gangs eventually.
11. Re:Clearly by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 07:44 · Score: 0
  
  Same song, different name. The Muslim militant faction just has new allies from the Middle East.
12. Re:Clearly by ShanghaiBill · 2017-11-09 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, it's not like ISIS killed 60 Philippine soldiers in an open battle for territory
  ... and this is nothing new. From the 1600s: Moro jihad against the Spanish invasion.
  One thing that has not changed in the last 400 years is that the conflict is in Mindanao, which is a long way from Metro Manila. The Moro conflict is irrelevant to the lives of most Filipinos.
13. Re:Clearly by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 13:39 · Score: 0
  
  The problem is in Southwestern Mindinao. Head NE to the Cebuano region and it isn't a problem.
14. Re:Clearly by mjwx · 2017-11-10 03:33 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe they could implement a comprehensive, mandatory and free basic education system
  They already have that. The literacy rate in the Philippines is 96.3%, which is about the same as the rest of Southeast Asia.
  
  The amount of workers leaving the country to work elsewhere suggests there is lot to be changed and developed within the country.
  Many of those expat workers are educated: Nurses in Hong Kong, engineers in Dubai, etc.
  Some problems in the Philippines: High birthrate, corruption, dysfunctional legal system, lots of crime, high levels of inequality.
  The problem you've got with education in the Philipines is that whilst basic education is good, it doesn't get much better than basic for most Filipinos. They can all just about read, write and do basic arithmetic but you need to be born into a rich, middle class or higher family to afford a decent education. For a girl born to a poor family in Leyte, she wont get to see much schooling beyond the lay preachers who teach them reading, writing and a whole bunch of god bollocks. This is because most villages don't have a school with a dedicated teacher. The senior male child may get sent to a school in a major town, but this will stop if money gets too tight.
  
  However even for the "well to do" poor, the odds are stacked against them because Filipino education isn't given any recognition anywhere else. In Hong Kong they used to (maybe still do) joke about the maid having a degree in nuclear physics but it's OK because she's Filipina. Corruption, nepotism and poor standards have made a Filipino education essentially worthless. Even for professions that are in high demand like nursing, a Filipino nurse has to do, at the very least, a bridging course in a western university to be hired by an Australian or UK hospital. Only the small middle class and above get to send their children to reputable international schools in the Philippines and then onto western universities.
  
  Corruption, nepotism, inequality are all rife in the Philippines. One of my favorite sayings about the PI (Philippine Islands) is that "they have an excellent legal system, but a terrible justice system". This is quite true, on paper their laws are almost as good as a western democracy, but the fact is the police and courts are so corrupt that it doesn't matter (almost any crime can be bought out of, in fact payment will be required regardless if they think you're rich).
  
  That being said, if you've got enough money to live without working, its a great place to do so.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Al is not a filipino name by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 04:09 · Score: 0

Al is a totally American/British name. Al is, like, the name of the trikepatrol dude that bangs the filipina chicks, not the chicks themselves.
Oh, boo-hoo by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 04:18 · Score: 0

How's "Globalization" working for you now, third world job-stealing economy?
1. Re:Oh, boo-hoo by jellomizer · 2017-11-09 05:02 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Globalization isn’t the problem or the solution. It is the fact that there is this race to the bottom mentality. Companies are too focused on saving money then thay are on getting more customers. So they go with cheaper services at the cost of their customers. Because they figure they can make more per customer who remains and keeps the percentage up. However this doesn’t lead to growth. Growth means more customers, more customers means better services and products. If you are in a market selling for cheap you are setting yourself up for failure because there will always be someone cheaper. If you set yourself up for quality then that is a harder market for someone to beat you on.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
It's actually kind of mindblowing... by wardrich86 · 2017-11-09 04:32 · Score: 1

The Philippines' business process outsourcing (BPO) industry is an economic lifeline for the Southeast Asian nation
Their country actually survives by giving really shitty tech support... and they don't even need to raise the bar because there's never been a push to do it. I've never understood why companies that outsourced didn't force these places to at least offer service. It's usually like talking to a brick wall, but worse.
1. Re:It's actually kind of mindblowing... by Altrag · 2017-11-09 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  Because they don't care. Support is a cost center for most companies and when 90% of your calls can be resolved by "did you try restarting it?" or "did you plug it in?" its not worth the cost of highly skilled labor (even in cheap labor countries) to handle the other 10% that have actual problems with the product.
  That's of course also why they have tiered support as well -- they only need 10% of the level 2 techs and maybe 1% of level 3 techs that they do for level 1. Unfortunately level 2 these days seems to be almost as clueless as level 1 in a lot of call centers, and level 3 is like getting an audience with the king.
2. Re:It's actually kind of mindblowing... by wardrich86 · 2017-11-09 09:45 · Score: 1
  
  Because none of them are actually specialists. There's very little training, and like their first level support, they're left with whatever documentation they're given, with no ability to gain true hands-on experience with the product(s) they're supposed to be supporting. The entire customer service industry is broken... The front lines don't get paid enough to give a shit, and they've got so much access to personal data. It's scary.
3. Re:It's actually kind of mindblowing... by rtb61 · 2017-11-09 13:32 · Score: 1
  
  Reality is of course way, way away from this months bonus generated by bullshit spreadsheets. Service and support is actually missing a 'S', in old school terms it used to all be bundled together Sales, Support and Services. Now in the bullshit psychopath executive era, spreadsheet says lower cost means more profits and nothing more. So separating out sales from service and support mean that people no longer noticed, that shit service and support results in worse sales which require a huge bullshit marketing campaign about how great the service and support is, when in reality it is shit.
  So quality services and support is in fact the cheapest sales tool you can have. The better they are, the far more likely you are to turn a customer with a problem into a salesperson for your company, old world business you fucking idiot, that does not show up on some scummy psychopath executives spreadsheet but still fucks over a corporations bottom line, losing dollars to save pennies.
  Really want to do it smart, combine sales with support and services to ensure you sales staff know their product, are not selling problems to achieve quota and know each customer with a complaint is potentially sales person for you company. But hey, greed driven stupidity and psychopaths with spreadsheets means world worst shitty service and support will not lose you customers, not one, not ever.
  I pay marginally extra for insurance because I ring and get a local person every single time who can direct me exactly who I need to speak to and can share normal healthy human social interaction during the process, especially important during complaint resolution. Going through that whole button pressing pile of shit, yeah, makes me so much angrier and so much more likely to be a ex-customer (when you call back to find why you have lost me, don't be surprised if I let you listen to music whilst pretending to put you on hold until you give up).
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Hello There! This Is Your New AI Call Center! by dryriver · 2017-11-09 04:40 · Score: 1

I can help you with any problems you may have. But first you must beat me in 3 successive games of GO! (Video ad plays: "Nvidia... The Way Its Meant To Be Played.") Welcome to the 21st Century, bitch! =)

--
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
1. Re:Hello There! This Is Your New AI Call Center! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 04:59 · Score: 0
  
  Agreed. We can play Go, but then I suggest we personally meet and play Kick Boxing first before we play Go or chess.
2. Re: Hello There! This Is Your New AI Call Center! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 06:26 · Score: 0
  
  You sure you want to fight a robot?
Philipines is a true shithole... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 04:42 · Score: 0

It has the sloth and entitlement standard to South Asia, but mixed with the rampant corruption of a Catholic country. Truly the worst of both worlds. How they manage to stay above Africa is a mystery.
1. Re:Philipines is a true shithole... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 05:14 · Score: 0
  
  I heard their president at Philippines, Duterte, was planted by Russia just like Trump. Election database was hacked before election and all details of their voters, including home address and fingerprints was leaked online. It was alleged that Russia was behind the breach.
2. Re:Philipines is a true shithole... by ShanghaiBill · 2017-11-09 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  I heard their president at Philippines, Duterte, was planted by Russia just like Trump.
  He won in a landslide by 15% over his closest rival. The result was in line with pre-election polls. There was no reason for the Russians to interfere, and no evidence that they did.
  Since his election, Duterte has pandered to the Chinese, not the Russians. He has mostly abandoned claims to territory in the South China Sea, and since the claims by the Philippines were the only claims backed by an American military alliance, that is a huge benefit to China.
3. Re: Philipines is a true shithole... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-10 00:17 · Score: 0
  
  Russia Russia russiar rushAR russiar. Hillary isn't involved in the murder of Seth Rich who leaked her dirty secrets, it was those Russians I tells ya
Will the AI be given sufficient authority? by jtara · 2017-11-09 04:54 · Score: 3, Interesting

Will the AI be given sufficient authority deal with situations that aren't in the play book?
If so, it will be a giant plus!
I've noticed the shift from India/Pakistan to the Philippines. I know right away, when they don't call me "Mr. Jonathan".
I still ask for a U.S. representative. It's worth the wait. They can usually solve problems, or at least their supervisors can. If they challenge, I tell them that I can't understand what they are saying (this is as true of most of the Philippine reps as the others) and that "I do not give out credit card details (or discuss medical insurance, or...) outside of the country. " If they want further explanation, I explain that I am uncomfortable that they are out of reach of U.S. law. Sometimes they will state well, the company they work for is. Whatever. If THEY skim my CC details, THEY cannot be prosecuted under U.S. law... Some companies (American Express) will just immediately give you an especially-cheerful U.S. rep. (I suppose some AI already makes sure it's an especially-cheerful one.)
Most recent: Got the iPhone X from ATT online. Somehow, my ATT Next contract got changed from 24 month to 30 month. (new every 2 years, instead of every one). The "beautified" new ATT website is a total disaster of usability and after "waiting in line" was only offered to pay full purchase price. Had to go wandering off through the website to find a place where I could upgrade the phone on my contract. Was not given any options... just pick your phone. So, I picked my phone, and knew immediately only after checkout (the first time I was given the monthly payment) that it was wrong (since the payment was too low).
FWIW, I've encountered some of the hapless developers (subcontinent-based...) with the thankless task of wedging one more stupid script onto the "new" ATT website in the tech forums for a popular Javascript library. I'm like, dude, there are over ONE HUNDRED mostly-obsolete scripts on this page, how do you expect anybody to help you? Start updating this crap and pare it down! How many tracking scripts do they need? (Yes, he posted a link to the ATT site on a development server!) And how many copies of fooQuery do you need on one page? Poor guy was trying, but management are idiots.
The Philippines based rep told me the only remedy was to return the phone and order a new one! (Yes, very much a First World Problem...) Was told there was no supervisor to refer to.
THIS one I handled by going to the physical ATT store, and getting loud. (Initially, was told only a customer service rep on the phone could help...) Dude said it's impossible to change the contract terms, then FINALLY asks the key question: when you you get the phone. "Friday". "Oh..."
That was followed by at least 1/2 hour of occasional tip-tapping on some Android tablet, while the guy in the store "returned" my phone, and sold me back the same phone under different contract terms. I guess he was tip-tapping at somebody in the Philippines.... He had to occasionally summon a co-worker for help.
Well, sure, if you have people breathing down your neck over "productivity", and minder at the end of the aisle, and have to raise your hand to go to the bathroom (that's even in U.S. call centers - as I've worked at a company that had a call center in the building - I wrote some code for presenting the scripts...) WWYD? Of course, you are not going to sit there for 1/2 hour and solve a problem. You are going to tell the customer it cannot be done, or give them a ridiculous option like send the phone back and order another one.
Maybe AI can figure out the rules of byzantine human-created processes like this and provide better customer service. If they can master that, they can start in on that ridiculous website refresh.
But then again, the AI will only be given so many mSec of compute time, and will probably innovate the same stupid "solution"...
1. Re:Will the AI be given sufficient authority? by mjwx · 2017-11-10 03:42 · Score: 1
  
  I've noticed the shift from India/Pakistan to the Philippines. I know right away, when they don't call me "Mr. Jonathan".
  In the Philippines, at least in Tagalog speaking areas, they default to "sir". When I'm leaving my hotel they'll say "Good evening sir Michael" which because I'm Anglo, usually leads me to explaining that they don't have to call me "sir" because I haven't been knighted yet. Usually this is lost on them because they were educated by an American system.
  
  Anyway, this is mostly because its the usage of the word "po" which means sir in tagalog, same as in Indian dialects they refer to everyone by an honorific, which is Mr by default (if you're a doctor, they would use their word for doctor) its just t"hat "sir" fits in better with western dialects.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
More knee-jerk reaction to media hype by Rick+Schumann · 2017-11-09 05:00 · Score: 1

Everyone needs to stop believing and reacting to media hype about so-called 'AI'. Seriously get a grip, you're not all going to lose your jobs.
1. Re:More knee-jerk reaction to media hype by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 05:25 · Score: 0
  
  I know I won't.
  I'm not worried for my sake.
  I realize that may be a foreign concept to you, and hard to understand.
Whatever reduces the H1B nightmare == GOOD. by Seven+Spirals · 2017-11-09 05:14 · Score: 1

Aww, poor Indonesia and India. They are feeling threatened by AI bots and US offshoring megacorps fickle lack of loyalty? Welcome to reality, bitches. If the foreign assholes and their sleazy corporate boosters are wailing, then things are looking up. The USA isn't fucking job-bank for the rest of the world, contrary to the beliefs of the no-borders crowd.
With his level of engrish I would be worried by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 06:31 · Score: 0

"I don't think our excellent command of spoken English is going to really be a protection five, 10 years from now. It really will not matter," said Rajneesh Tiwary
I can see what 3, four grammatical errors in his statement? And yes in 5 to 10 years it will be fine, going by how bad Google translate is after the already 5 years of development its had is any indication, I'd suspect it will only get worse from here on in.
1. Re:With his level of engrish I would be worried by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 12:56 · Score: 0
  
  "I don't think our excellent command of spoken English is going to really be a protection five, 10 years from now. It really will not matter," said Rajneesh Tiwary
  I can see what 3, four grammatical errors in his statement? And yes in 5 to 10 years it will be fine, going by how bad Google translate is after the already 5 years of development its had is any indication, I'd suspect it will only get worse from here on in.
  If he was speaking idiomatically (extemporaneously), like many of us type here at /., then pedantry is pointless, even for a Google translation from same. ;)
2. Re:With his level of engrish I would be worried by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 15:02 · Score: 0
  
  From the looks of it, the name Rajneesh Tiwary is an Indian name. Contact details of Sutherland Global also directs to US telephone numbers and address. Maybe he is located at US, with H1B.
AI by DaMattster · 2017-11-09 08:29 · Score: 1

AI and automation will be a big job killer for many, not just Filipinos. There is talk about having AI supplant brokers and fund managers in the financial industry. AI can make predictions and analyze data much, much faster than a human being. AI could almost render us obsolete and that is frightening. I have to agree with Steven Hawking's real dislike of AI and his dire warning that AI could be our undoing as a species.
No one knows what artificial intelligence is. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-09 09:37 · Score: 0

Artificial intelligence is not the same as an expert system.
All the "AI" talk in articles recently is really speaking to expert systems. System explicitly designed to solve a problem in a highly defined scope.
Real AI would be able to create its own internal expert systems to deal with brand new situations. The human race is no where close to this.
A ways off, I think.. by Altrag · 2017-11-09 09:39 · Score: 1

- Voice recognition works OK for simple 2 or 3 word commands, but its still kind of spotty for general conversation.
- Language translation is still a fairly large disaster, at least if Google Translate is anything to go by.
- Voice generation is still pretty spotty and robotic and drives quite fast into the uncanny valley.
Now the translation aspect may or may not be necessary for tech support (why not just build the AI in whatever language you're trying to serve?) and its by far the worst of the three points I've listed, but the other two still need a good few years of work I would say before people would accept them as commonplace and not just get frustrated.
Then again, even if "a good few years" is a decade or more away, I suppose that's still soon enough that its worth trying to preempt the problem.