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Ask Slashdot: Which Laptop Has The Best Keyboard?
Slashdot reader Rock21k is thinking of replacing an old laptop. But...
All newer laptops seem to have wide spacing between the keyboard keys, which I hate... At one time, this used to be for consumer laptops but most major companies have done it for business laptops as well... Probably over time I might get used to it, but definitely not the first choice. I understand I can use an external keyboard but that defeats the purpose of a laptop!
Do you also hate wide spacing between keyboard keys? Which brand do you find least annoying? Leave your best answers in the comments. Which laptop has the best keyboard?
All the latest Apple laptops have bad keyboards, really. Bad to use, bad engineering, lots of problems.
The last good Apple laptop keyboards are on the 2015 MacBook Pro (still available) and the MacBook Air.
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The keyboard on my 760XL just plain sucks. No idea if it's pre-*30 Series or not.
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Wide spaced keys are closer to a desktop keyboard layout.
Manufacturers consider this a feature, not a problem.
The smaller the laptop, the tighter the key spacing. If you want tight keys, you need to look at a small screen.
Most wireless keyboards have tight key spacing. You might look at those.
IBM ThinkPad 701c "butterfly" keyboard
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
For me, it's ThinkPad or nothing, just for the keyboard. I cannot stand modern laptop keyboards. I still use an X220 specifically for the keyboard, and greeted with great joy the news that there will soon be a new, classic-style ThinkPad release.
Rule 35 of the internet: "If it can be hacked, it will be". - Charles Stross
The Thinkpad 25 (25th Anniversary) uses the old style keyboard. I'm tempted to get one but some of its other specs are a bit anemic, particularly the battery.
I will agree that Apple input devices, particularly on notebooks, are deeply shitty. Not enough key travel, comically overlarge trackpads and now no function keys. Any one of those things is a deal breaker in my opinion.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
Studies made in þe olde typewriter era have shown that having a wider surface on top of the keys leads to more unintentional key presses.
The standard surface width is 1/2" or 12 mm, and with standard width (what is usually meant when talking about "key spacing") being 3/4".
I think that what Rock21k is actually referring to is what is called "island keys" or "chiclet" keys.
I don't think that whether the keys' skirts are angled or go straight down matters that much. The problems are rather that chiclet keyboard tend to have flatter surfaces but more often entirely flat, wider surfaces and less key travel than other keyboards.
MacBook "Pro"'s keyboards with its ultra-flat "butterfly" scissor mechanism is especially bad.
Also, some popular chiclet laptop keyboards (such as MS Surface "Type Cover") have very low surface friction, so fingers slip more often.
Low surface friction wouldn't have been so detrimental to keyboard feel if the keys had been dished and had more space between them.
Older keyboard keys tended to be made of plastic, such as ABS or PBT which has good surface feel even when glossy but backlit keys tend to be painted with a slippery paint layer with laser-ablated legends.
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
Agreed. Thinkpads have the best keyboard and the best positioning device (=trackpoint), by far.
This is all very interesting. I actually found myself checking this comment thread to see if the current MBP keyboards would be listed in a positive way. It took me a few days to get used to, but typing on earlier MBPs now feels really uncomfortable.
Different strokes, I guess.
Not certain if the poster meant larger keys (like desktop keyboards) or larger gaps between keys. If the former, then it's a feature to mimic desktop spacing as much as possible. If the latter, I'm not sure what he means "wide" - on a real keyboard, the tops of the keys would have even wider gaps.
In my opinion, the best keyboard on any laptop computer was the Toshiba T1200 keyboard circa 1988. Very much like the IBM Selectric / M-series buckling spring switch keyboards - in a portable form factor. I have yet to find another laptop keyboard that can match the feel and speed of typing possible with that machine. You could beat hell out of it, and it would just keep going. You can read about the T1200 laptop and see images of it here.
In 1988 I was in college, and I want to say I was one of the first, if not first person to use a laptop computer for taking notes in class on my campus (I didn't see ubiquitous laptop use in school until the 1990s). There were PC and Unix workstations and kiosks on campus - but they of course were not portable by any stretch of the imagination.
As for current machines - nothing has come close in terms of keyboard ergonomics.
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The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
From PCWorld, "The Predator 21 X features a full-height mechanical keyboard using Cherry MX brown switches. Acer isn't the first laptop maker to integrate full-height mechanical keys, of course, but it's a nice touch. The keys are individually RGB-lit, too. If you don't like the colored WASD keys, Acer includes more sedate black keys in the box." It's probably not the laptop you want, but that seems like the answer to your question in absence of additional constraints.
Insert self-referential sig here.
I second this. I hated the new MBP keyboard style. And I forced myself to get used to it since I do all of my development on OSX (now Mac OS), and with the new keyboards, the writing is on the wall. Penalty for the walled garden I suppose.
However, after using it for about a week almost exclusively, going back to the 2012 MBP I used to have is TERRIBLE! I couldnâ(TM)t believe how confounded my expectations were. I also ran through a typing test, and Iâ(TM)m faster on the new MBP vs the old one. When I returned to my office from onsite at a client, I headed strait for the nearest Apple store to pick up one of the new keyboards so it feels consistent. I donâ(TM)t know why, but the change is hated, even when itâ(TM)s significanty better, and I donâ(TM)t understand why. When I upgraded from one resolution to the next over the years, each time I felt better for it immediately. Iâ(TM)m not sure why the keyboard progression doesnâ(TM)t âoefeelâ the same way. My typing speed and accuracy is higher, my fingers are fast getting used to shortcuts on the touch-bar, and yet, I hated moving to it, and saw it as a necessary evil! Why do we get used to resolution and dimension changes easier than keyboard mechanical changes?
Gotta be those classic Thinkpads with the best keyboards
Although, I'd love to use a laptop with a built-in IBM model M buckling spring "clicky" keyboard - just to annoy everyone in the coffee shop.
Pity we'll probably never see one.
READY.
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I am FAR more productive with a ThinkPad X220 or T420 than I am with more modern laptops, because I can touch-type without ever looking at the keyboard. This is achieved by having various key sizes and spacings, which tell me exactly where on the "map" I am at any given moment. Lenovo shit the bed by switching to the 6-row keyboard with equally-spaced function keys and non-discoverable special characters, but they may be now going back to the old-and-awesome 7 row classic keyboard. The T25 is a fist step, here's hoping all their new models will have it.
Of course, if you're a donk that needs looking at his keyboard every 5-10 seconds, then you won't understand what's all the fuss about. I notice that those same donks need shit like backlit keys, because without them they are utterly lost while typing in the dark. And spend lots of time looking dimwitted.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Easy, it's muscle memory...using something every day makes you able to move on it without thinking, and that kind of training makes you faster. Also, your test with the previous keyboard does not mean the newer is better, just that you learned the new one (forgetting the old). For a good comparison you'd need to take back data of an old typing speed test taken on your last day with your old keyboard and match it against the one you just did.
Even as the trend to reduce key travel has continued the Thinkpad keyboards still feel great.
If only the keyboard had a proper apostrophe character!
Agreed. I was very skeptical of the new keyboard that they introduced with the Macbook. Then I went to the store and typed on one for a half an hour or so.. I was sold. It wasn't perfect but I really liked it.
But I continued to use my 2012 MBP keyboard and the matching aluminum desktop keyboard. Up until recently I've found them to be the best keyboards for me for all day typing (I'm a software developer).
Then I tried the 2016 MBP keyboard and it was a huge improvement over the macbook keyboard. I ended up getting one back in March, I think, and I love it. The touchbar took some getting used to but on balance I really love what it does for usability.
The escape key and function keys are mostly only useful to me in Vim and I can map the keyboard so that they always show up when I load Vim or the terminal. I do wish the escape key was in the far corner where it belongs and I *really* wish they added a taptic engine underneath it but for the most part I don't really notice the change.
Whenever I go back to an old-style Mac keyboard it's very hard for me to get used to. And god help me when I go to a more traditional long throw keyswitch keyboard. I want to smash them. Ironically the clear case Apple keyboard (the one with the white keys from ~2003) is one of the worst I've ever used.. absolutely terrible.
I've used a great many keyboards over the years (both desktop and laptop -- including an ergonomic split keyboard with buckling spring keys). The macbook pro keyboards have always led the pack for me.
Typing this on a Lenovo T420, this is the only answer. If you need something newer, get a T25.
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From my experience: you might get used to tolerating it but a bad keyboard is a bad keyboard, especially when it has a terrible layout. In such a case it will always be an annoyance to work with.
The Thinkpad 25 seems to be the only acceptable option for a programmer's keyboard right now.
For current day computers I'd give the current MacBooks a try. I've had good experiences with the new Apple keyboards, but some people don't like them at all so YMMV.
If you can get your hands on an older refurbished ThinkPad with the classic keyboard, that might be an option aswell. I just bought one of the last with the classic keyboard and don't regret it the slightest.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Extraordinary keyboard. Deep but not too deep, quiet, and consistent. Thrash away. If you are a punishing typist like me, then you may need to replace it a few times. It's a minor irritation, but the latest one has lasted well over a year.
"Give me an IBM Model M keyboard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard). . . or give me death!"
And the same old factories (and even a few old timer personnel) are still churning out buckling spring mechanical keyboard under the Unicomp brand name.
(This message was typed using one of these).
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There’s a thing where, wearing shoes which have more paddimg, actually causes the foot to hit the ground harder, because your body is trying to find something solid to hit. So ironically, more padding causes more force to travel up your leg and causes more damage than non-padded.
I find the very flat keys cause my hands to have to re-figure out what they are aiming for, but then there is a more definite point of contact. Going back to the earlier keyboards now, they feel all squidgy.
Only thing is, the tiniest spec of a grain of something, caught under a key, disables the key. I was getting a faulty enter key, until I blasted air under it.
I have a rugged Thinkpad 12" around that's still one of the most comfortable laptop keyboards i've ever used.
Of all the keyboards I've used in recent times, The Dell XPS series has the most comfortable keyboard and the most positive key engagement. As to the key spacing, it is a chicklet keyboard, in keeping with the current fashion. But that's where the similarities with most other brands end. Dell seems to have gone through quite a bit of effort to make the keyboard nice. It's the closest thing I've felt to typing on a proper keyboard.
Yes true... but some suck more than others. My W510 keyboard for example is nearly as good as a dekstop keyboard. Me eee900 after I got used to it is probably the best compact formfactor keyoard I've used. My touch bar macbook pro is bloody terrible.
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If that's what you're using I don't want one.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It was released a couple of months ago.
That is, if you want a somewhat MODERN system, with a good keyboard. Is a tad expensive, but that's life for you...
Otherwise, go for one of those second hand old computers of yore. Your best bet for a good keyboard is an old laptop.
The quest to make thinner/lighter/smaller laptops has taken it's toll on the keyboards...
Less bessel on the screen means less surface area for the Keyboard (although the move from 4:3 to 16:9 helped a lot in this department), meaning less space and misisng keys.
Thinner and lighter means smaller keys with less travel, and smaller key mechanisms with worse tactile feel.
Me? I use the laptop docked most of the time, which means I use a nice HP Keyboard salvaged from a workstation (PA-RISK ultra 5000). Which has a windows key with a diferent logo, ideal for my mac ;-)
When on the go, I try to survive with the crappy laptop chiclet keyboard.
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
For most people looking for a great keyboard, the Macbooks are a non-starter even if they can accept the OS change, because of the half-height arrow keys and lack of spacing between every 4 function keys (or lack of physical function keys on the touch bar models). For some reason this is glossed over in all the MBP reviews. Every PC laptop which dares to commit these transgressions gets dinged for it in all the reviews, but in the Mac reviews it's never mentioned.
The Thinkpads have shrunken their arrow keys slightly compared to their old keyboards. But they remain suitably large for comfortable editing, and the function keys mimic the spaces between every 4 keys like a desktop keyboard for touch typing.
Thanks for the Thinkpad 25 mention, I hadn't heard of it and now I want one. Bottom line - Chiclets suck for typing and any who say they don't aren't proficient at typing. Nothing beats a mechanical keyboard on a desktop or proper scissor switch on a laptop.
I was kinda hoping the scissor hinges would fix chiclets always missing keystrokes... haven't had a chance to try even that yet... but it sounds like they found yet more ways to make it suck. If something like the Thinkpad 25 is still around when I come due to a refresh, I'll definitely give it a look... I don't need huge performance out of this thing, just so long as it has an SSD for faster compiles, the CPU doesn't matter much. But... I'm getting on in years, so a bigger wide format screen definitely helps.
Someone had to do it.
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