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Germany Is Burning Too Much Coal (bloomberg.com)

Several readers share a report: Germany is widely seen as a world leader in the fight against climate change. Thanks to its investments in renewable power, wind and solar energy provide a third of its electricity, more than double the U.S. share. Germany's goal to lower carbon-dioxide emissions 40 percent by 2020 is significantly more ambitious than that of Europe as a whole or the U.S. After the U.S. withdrawal from the Paris climate accord, Chancellor Angela Merkel vowed even greater determination. "We can't wait for the last man on Earth to be convinced by the scientific evidence for climate change," she explained. But there's another, troubling side to the German story: The country still gets 40 percent of its energy from coal, a bigger share than most other European countries. And much of it is lignite, the dirtiest kind of coal. As a result, Germany is set to fall well short of its 2020 goal. This dependence on coal is partly a side effect of Germany's abandonment of emissions-free nuclear power and partly foot-dragging on the part of a government wary of alienating voters in German coal country. During the summer election campaign, Merkel largely avoided the subject.

23 of 451 comments (clear)

  1. fucking krauts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The emergency move away from nuclear has been incredibly short sighted. I understand not wanting to build new reactors, but shutting down running reactors, with all the capital investment involved, just doesn't make any sense. Especially when there is little risk of natural disasters in Germany.

    If people are serious about maintaining the same quality of lifestyle that we have today without burning as much coal, the current solution is Nuclear Energy. Yes it does pose many risks but so does burning coal, and the latter seems to be destroying our environment.

    1. Re: fucking krauts by atomicalgebra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nuclear energy isn't unlimited

      Neither is solar, but we can run our civilization for 10000's of years with nuclear. That makes is sustainable. If we include seawater extraction and thorium we can run our civilization for millions of years.

    2. Re: fucking krauts by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nuclear is not an option only after you've converted all matter available to you into iron. We'll want viable fusion reactors built before we run out o fissile materials that are easily mined on the surface. Something that will happen, but not likely in our lifetimes. And thankfully we've been working very hard on fusion reactor technology and we will continue to do so.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    3. Re:fucking krauts by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sorry but not even close. The nuclear FUD in Germany is well and truly a grass roots campaign led mostly by those who lived through the hysteria of Chernobyl. The world was largely comfortable with the idea of nuclear power maintaining the status quo right until the Japan incident. That started new fears of "if they can't even do it".

      No need for the coal industry to get involved. The actual protests on the ground and the driving force from the people in Germany who have no concept of risk management and just know they are surrounded by these nukular things they don't understand was incredible. Protesters number in the hundreds of thousands there and after the Fukushima incident they even managed to form a 45km long human chain.

      Never underestimate the power of ignorance combined with technical media reporting. The coal industry hasn't had to spend a dime in Germany battling nuclear, not since the 80s anyway.

    4. Re: fucking krauts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thanks asshole, you the greens and the sierra club have inadvertently killed us all by turning the public against nuclear power and forcing governments to rely on coal

    5. Re:fucking krauts by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The emergency move away from nuclear has been incredibly short sighted. I understand not wanting to build new reactors, but shutting down running reactors, with all the capital investment involved, just doesn't make any sense. Especially when there is little risk of natural disasters in Germany.

      If people are serious about maintaining the same quality of lifestyle that we have today without burning as much coal, the current solution is Nuclear Energy. Yes it does pose many risks but so does burning coal, and the latter seems to be destroying our environment.

      Nuclear energy is great up until the point the time comes to dismantle an aging nuclear plant and all the nuclear waste that goes along with it. Then the power companies duck away by buying themselves out of the equation and letting taxpayer money take over.

      Nuclear power is a really nice deal. Reap all the profits and let the taxpayer take care of the dirty work.

      And if the unthinkable happens and one of the things blows up in your face due to incalculable risks, as has happened before at least two times, well, the taxpayer will also have to step in because like Fukushima taught us, the costs of a nuclear meltdown are so immense, it will bankrupt any company.

      Whatever way you look at it, nuclear is a shady deal with corporations reaping profits while carrying none of the risks.

    6. Re:fucking krauts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Japan could ride the Fukushima disaster relatively good. Look on a map ... if something like that happens in Germany, our country will end up as "non existing anymore". Idiot!

      Bookmarks this comment: Just in case anyone ever falls for the stereotype of the Germans as a rational technologically advanced people.

  2. Sounds like a Base Load Need by DatbeDank · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That 40% sounds like a required need for base load. I doubt they will be able to eliminate it without much wailing and gnashing of teeth from their utility engineers.

    They could have accomplished their goals by keeping those nuclear plants going. Shame they let feelings get in the way of good energy policy.

    1. Re:Sounds like a Base Load Need by harperska · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That link doesn't 'disprove' the concept of peaking/base load grids. That concept is still sound and was in fact how the US grid operated at least as of 2010 when I was last personally involved in the energy industry. It just makes physics sense that it is more efficient to run your big plants at a constant rate 24/7, and bring your smaller plants on and off line as demand fluctuates throughout the day.

      What it sounds like your link is arguing is that Germany was playing games by generating more base load than they needed and then exporting the remainder, not that they didn't need base load at all. .

  3. Re:But they signed a meaningless piece of paper! by grasshoppa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not sure why you're being modded down, because you nailed it.

    For all their lofty goals, paranoia and empty gestures are all Germany has thus far achieved.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
  4. Energiewende is a failure by atomicalgebra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Germany has spent 100s of billions on renewables without much to show for it. Their electricity rates are among the highest in Europe, yet they still pollute 10x as much as France" If they spent that money on next generation nuclear their emissions would have dropped. As it currently stands nuclear power is the only viable option to mitigate climate change.

    1. Re:Energiewende is a failure by atomicalgebra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      High electric rates are a greeny GOAL.

      You are right. Increasing electricity rates in a goal of the greenies. There is a belief that high electricity rates will decrease demand. In reality it impoverishes the lower and middle classes while doing nothing to lower CO2 emissions.

    2. Re:Energiewende is a failure by atomicalgebra · · Score: 4, Informative

      France's emission of uranium is infinitely larger than Germany's.

      Not true. France emits no uranium. On the other hand Germany emits a lot of uranium and other radiative elements into the atmosphere because they burn coal.

    3. Re:Energiewende is a failure by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The energy bill is the smallest part of a household bill. My beer consumption two weeks at home is already more than my power bill. If I go three days in a pub, I likely pay more than for one month for power.

      The price of energy for an house hold is close to irrelevant.

      And: the poor would get social aid if they indeed could not pay the bill.

      Your ideas how "expensive the power in Germany" is completely misleading, as we don't need much electricity.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  5. Re:But they signed a meaningless piece of paper! by JoshuaZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sigh. "Virtue signaling" is something that has real meaning. It doesn't just means "does something that I don't like or don't sympathize with". Your sarcasm is essentially correct regarding nuclear power, and their turning off their nuke plants was a terrible idea, but that doesn't mean the people here weren't sincere.

  6. They're not burning too much coal by geschbacher79 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Correction to your headline: They're not burning too much coal, which makes it sound like they're wasting coal by burning too much. In fact, this is just the opposite. The amount of coal they're burning is the amount necessary to provide 40% of the electricity to their country. A more accurate headline would be "Despite their reputation as a leader in renewable energy, Germany is actually burning more coal than most other European countries".

    Germany is running out of reliable sources of power generation: If not coal or nuclear, then natural gas would be a good choice. But do they have the political capital to switch from one fossil fuel to another?

    1. Re:They're not burning too much coal by Luthair · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're burning too much to meet their emissions goal....

  7. Fucking Envirowackos by sycodon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    More likely the Envirowackos.

    Nuclear is expensive due to incessant lawsuits and an uncertain regulatory environment. How many other 5 year, billion dollar construction projects are subject to the rules being change on a whim?

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  8. Yup, not surprising. by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The funny thing is that many continue to rip on America and then compare to Germany and China.
    Yet, both Germany and China have high % of their electricity from coal. Germany is 45% and rising, and CHina's is around 80% (they refuse to allow external monitoring and their numbers change constantly). In fact, Germany has 45% coal, and 10% nat gas/mineral oil.
    Germany's electricity is not only more CO2 / KWh than is America's, but is much dirtier since the majority of theirs comes from Coal and NOT nat gas.
    America's electricity is about 28% coal, and 30% nat gas. BUT, America's coal continues to drop while Germany continues to build new coal plants. To be fair though, Germany's new coal is mostly about replacing old coal and nukes. By replacing their old coal plants, they are cleaning up the air, while getting more electricty.
    And while America is slowly building up renewables compared to Germany and CHina, our electricity remains much cleaner due to heavy use of nat gas as well as nuclear.
    In terms of Germany, they need a base-load system and solar/wind, even with storage, will NOT do the trick. So, if not nuclear, then what? Geo-thermal? Hydro? Nope to both.
    China continues to build out coal, but they are also building up nuclear, along with hydro, both of which are base-load powers. Germany has some HARD choices to make.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  9. That's to be expected by Stormwatch · · Score: 3, Funny

    With Merkel letting in all those Afri- oh wait, you didn't mean THAT kind of "burning coal".

  10. Re:Everyone wants to have it both ways. by atomicalgebra · · Score: 3, Informative

    Meanwhile in France they realized that they are not doing fine and plan to decrease the use of nuclear substantially.

    Someone has not been following the news. Macron backpedals on pledge to cut reliance on nuclear power.

  11. We make fun of USA for good reason by aepervius · · Score: 4, Informative

    In spite of the riff everybody is doing on germany not doing enough, they are a western country which has a high standard of living and have about half the emission per capita of CO2 than the US has... https://data.worldbank.org/ind... for those not wanting to click : per capita USA 16.5 metric ton per person, Germany 8.9 metric tons per capita. And that is in spite of all that lignite burning.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  12. Re:Only 25 years by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    25-year supply if nuclear provided all electricity on Earth -- If we continue the once-through throw most of the fuel away non-cycle. Simply adding fuel reprocessing multiplies that number by a few times. Going to breeder reactors multiplies that by several more times.

    Then there's the seawater extraction mentioned elsewhere.

    Beyond that, there's thorium. According to my CRC Handbook, thorium is "about as common as lead", and "there is probably more available energy in the earth's crust from thorium than from uranium and all fossil fuels combined."