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iOS 11 'Is Still Just Buggy as Hell' (gizmodo.com)
It is becoming increasingly apparent that iOS 11, the current generation of Apple's mobile operating system, is riddled with more issues than any previous iOS version in the recent years. Two months ago, in a review, titled, "iOS 11 Sucks", a reporter at the publication wrote: I'm using iOS 11 right now, and it makes me want to stab my eyes with a steel wire brush until I get face jam. Gizmodo today reviews iOS 11 after living with the current software version for two months: It's been two full months since Apple released iOS 11 to millions and millions of devices worldwide, and the software is still just buggy as hell. Some of the glitches are ugly or just unexpected from a company that has built a reputation for flawless software. Shame on me for always expecting perfection from an imperfect company, I guess. But there are some really bad bugs, so bad that I can't use the most basic features on my phone. They popped up, when I upgraded on release day. They're still around after two months and multiple updates to iOS. Shame on Apple for ignoring this shit. Now, let me show you my bugs. The worst one also happens to be one I encounter most frequently. Sometimes, when I get a text, I'll go to reply in the Messages app but won't be able to see the latest message because the keyboard is covering it up. I also can't scroll up to see it, because the thread is anchored to the bottom of the page. The wackiest thing is that sometimes I get the little reply box, and sometimes I don't. The only way I'm able to text like normal is to tap the back arrow to take me to all my messages and then go back into the message through the front door. [...] Other native iOS 11 apps have bugs, too. Until a recent update, my iPhone screen would become unresponsive which is a problem because touching the screen is almost the only way to use the device.
You are holding it wrong.
Table-ized A.I.
It seems like Apple got rid of the QA department... And not just for the iPhone.
I know all the cool kids are doing Agile and sprinting away, and I think that's fine for development. But one of the things I really don't think is doing companies any favors is the super-fast iterations of operating systems. I'm a Windows guy and we see this with Windows 10 a lot...features just feel unfinished even when they're part of an official release. On the Windows Server side of the house, the pace is a little slower and it shows...server operating systems need to be more stable and not have surprising feature changes.
I'm an old fuddy duddy, but I think that core things like operating systems should have a slightly slower pace of development that allows for more testing and more careful planning. I see this in iOS 11 too...I just upgraded and was very surprised how many of the built-in apps have serious design flaws and appear to have been changed just because. (The Podcast app is unusable while driving anymore because you can't have it automatically play through a list of podcasts, as an example.)
Going super-fast and doing the DevOps thing is fine, but honestly a lot of this thinking came out of startups, where the product was an app whose only client is a smartphone, and whose only customer is a consumer who is getting a free service. Failures of this can be tolerated if you can quickly patch up the back end...but an OS deployed on a machine is a different story.
gawker is trash, but the bugs they cite here are real. I've reproduced them all over my tenure with the OS.
CEO responses to this kind of release:
Steve Balmer: Throws chairs while shouting "developers developers developers!"
Tim Cook: "LOL but look how much cash we have."
Satya Nadella: "Huh? We sold a phone?" Quietly high-fives himself in the mirror.
Steve Jobs: "You're holding it wrong". 3 days later several senior product positions at Apple open up for hiring. Spouses report their loved ones missing. Police find no trace but are baffled by reports of a severe thunderstorm located exclusively over Apple headquarters just after Jobs' announcement. Perfect iOS software released a few days later.
They're not bugs, you're just holding it wrong!
There is no 7s or 7s Plus.
This shit behavior is omnipresent on my fiance's old 4S, which IIRC runs some flavor of iOS 9.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Damn non apple worshipers. A pox on them all.
I have a profound hearing loss and depend on the iPhone MFi to hear conversation through my aids during phone calls. It is a buggy mess- it will drop one or the other side (L/R) during a call, take seconds to decide how to handle to audio (between speaker and MFi) when a call comes in, and sometimes will route notification sounds through the aids. There is such a thing as inconvenience. But when your ability to hear on the iPhone through MFi is compromised, that is a huge problem.
Republican leadership = Idiocracy
Gizmodo article, "iOS 11 Is Killing Me":
https://gizmodo.com/ios-11-is-...
won't be able to see the latest message because the keyboard is covering it up
Phones used to have slide-out keyboards. This gave you a physical keyboard as large as the surface area of the phone, without covering up any of the screen real estate.
I never understood why people wanted on a tiny little 5 inch screen to cover half of it up with a keyboard, instead of using it to view the content you were trying to see.
Ooohhhh not "neatly aligning the heading with the search bar" makes you "makes me want to pop out my eyes with a rusty spoon"?!?!
The "bugs" are almost all sufficiently minor to not bother people without OCD issues.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
This isn't counting the clusterfuck that is the ugly iPhone Ecks knob and corresponding "safe area" hack.
Thousands of app authors have had to modify their code (and worse - other people's code) to work correctly with that nonsense, and the cumulative cost of all those wasted person-hours is probably in the millions.
This article (more like a blog post) sounds like a teenager ranting in the most irrational way not providing coherent evidence for their claims many of which are ambiguous. Any review that uses terminology like "sucks" or "monkey armpits" and juxtaposes Samsung vs. Apple without any real comparison of the two products sounds like an article that isn't interested in providing useful information to consumers. They either 1) want to just rant and listen to themselves talk or 2) want to get ad revenue from sensationalism or both.
Why does this trash keep getting posted to slashdot?
We'll make great pets
like a tru c0ck$ucker.
He reproduces the issues, validates their presence
and yet still supports and invests in the parent.
Still hoping for that salty treat from the tip???
It's been two full months since Apple released iOS 11 to millions and millions of devices worldwide, and the software is still just buggy as hell. Some of the glitches are ugly or just unexpected from a company that has built a reputation for flawless software. Shame on me for always expecting perfection from an imperfect company, I guess.
This perfectly defines an Apple user. You get rawdogged all the way to the bank, and you blame yourself for getting boned! If this was Windows, you'd be blaming Microsoft, if this was Unix, you'd be blaming open source, if this was the Republicans, you'd be blaming the Democrats (and vice versa), but when it comes to Apple, it's not their fault the software is buggy, it's yours for expecting Apple to deliver on their promises.
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-7
perhaps the editor in charge, is so overwhelmed with that cock down her throat, "based on the name of the author, I believe I am framing that right" #dontgetitwrongcauzthedikisdeep. /. content abilities since the DicE merger have become abyssmal. /. apologized for and or retracted with an explaination?
rife with inaccuracies, personal bias, and outright stupidy..
how many articles has
people still have 6pack's of beer why insist on stupidity?
I bet this article was built on a fuckphone what ever, which is why the content was created lAst week but published today due to a bug somewhere in the publishing system..
ASIDE FROM ALL THAT, one last thing that contributes to the flawed thinking of the community @ large, IF ITS SO BUGGY AND RIFE WITH ISSUES WHY THE FUCK IS IT CONTINUALLY SUPPORTED BY MONETARY CONTRIBUTIONS OF THOSE WHOM CONSTANTLY BUY MORE AND MORE OF THE HYPE???
I have an Android phone (my personal phone) and an iPhone 6 (work provided)
There are aspects of iOS that I think are superior to Android. But it does seem that Apple rush-botched iOS 11.
Notifications: There is no way to clear all recent notifications at once. This only becomes available after they have "aged" enough. I like to keep the notifications clean, so this really bothers me. I have to clear them one at a time. Why take away the "Clear" function from the top of the notification list?
Battery life is noticeably worse than it was with iOS 10. The first unpatched iOS 11 was just awful. Once-a-day charging was the norm, then I could not get past 5pm without having to charge the phone. Patches have since made this better, but iOS 11 still sucks battery faster than iOS 10.
The swipe-up panel is terrible. Definitely a case of changing for the sake of change.
Auto-brightness. Which genius decided to bury this setting under "General --> Accessibility --> Display Accomodations"? Why isn't it under "Display & Brightness" from the main settings page? And if you manually change brightness from the swipe-up panel, auto-brightness is disabled. Then begins the lengthy PITA that is finding the Auto-Brightness option and enabling it again
To list some that come to mind. But there's more ... At least it seems that Apple is responding and issuing iOS 11 patches fairly quickly. But, really, these things should not have been released into the wild initially.
A negative Apple story posted by msmash? It must be a day of the week that ends with 'day'.
That’s the 7 and 7 Plus. Not the 7s or 7s Plus.
I've just spent the last 5 days coordinating a trade show, messaging like mad across iMessage, Hangouts, and e-mail, both from inside the apps and from the home screen. The problems described simply do not occur on my phone. I'm not sure why, but maybe the situation is just not as bad as this reviewer describes and the problem does not afflict every phone equally.
I would say the same back to you, but you cant kill or affect that witch is allready dead.
i find it funny, how apple claims to be the best. Definitely sounds like a dead person, an individual with dependency issues, or those with mental stability issues.
they have the most money
the most creative,inventive, and smartest people behind the double doors.
And yet they all dream of a taste of their STILL DEAD BOSS
Wtf r u waiting for Ios-13/14 TO INITIALIZE THE JOBS REBOOT???
Will he truly rise like a phoenix from the ashes?
#NEVERHAPPEN
A lot of the time a device that's gone through multiple updates will be crappier than one which had the OS from the start. Presumably a device that's had multiple updates has a higher entropy in some way that's not entirely clear.
Certainly my Samsung Galaxy Android phones need a firmware reset every year or so or they become slow, run hot and crash regularly. Maybe it's the same with iOS devices too. Then again, one of the things iOS users bragged about was that their devices didn't need this sort of mollycoddling and a two year old device was just as snappy as a new one. Perhaps that's changed. Or perhaps it was never really true in the first place.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
But there is one bug that's been very annoying for my wife. Apparently none of her custom ringtones work in iOS 11. They just revert back to the system default ringtone, which is bad because she ignores calls from anybody who doesn't have a custom ringtone set. The worst part is that the ringtone files are still there and can be set and previewed in the address book, but when an actual call comes in the phone refuses to use them.
I read the internet for the articles.
But this is the entire point. Apple product are about the experience. You would never see this just a few years ago, and if you did, it was fixed quickly. This brings up questions on how Apple brings products to market. Did any of these issues get caught in testing? Were the issues classified as OK for deployment and to be fixed later? Either of these scenarios pose a major shift in the Apple thought process of their products. When paying for an expensive product, you expect a great experience. Neatly aligning the header with a search bar is the experience. Without the experience, Apple is just overpriced. For instance I love my MacPro, because of how easy and powerful the user interface is. I used one at work and at home, and could do things I could only dream of on a Windows interface. Again, the point is the experience. Heavens knows I could buy a lot more hardware and run Windows or Linux, but I wouldn't have the same experience.
The "bugs" are almost all sufficiently minor to not bother people without OCD issues.
From a brand that used to pride itself on impeccable visual design, that's actually quite sad. From Microsoft, or even most Android manufacturers, it wouldn't be such a big deal, because that level of visual perfection was never their thing and they never attracted those OCD users in the first place like Apple did.
Apple spent years cultivating the following of these people, now they're seeing what happens when you trigger them.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Righton VokBain,
here is a clear example of Apple Goodness..
So fucking overwhelmed with the taste, they will fight to the death for the absolute wrong thing.
once again referring to the finished product rolled out to the public..
Ship it!
No man your stoopid,, /. i would have to agree, I think it was mentioned somewhere in this article within the comments section allready.
Pull Steve Jobs' dead 3rd member out of your mouth..
While not a fad of Jizzmodo my self to a certain degree..
This reading is NOT BIAS or off base.. But regarding
referring back to the finished product..
This is just a software issue since it doesnâ(TM)t happen will all phones running iOS 11.
Just erase and install and move on ya big cry baby you.
The "bugs" are almost all sufficiently minor to not bother people without OCD issues.
From a brand that used to pride itself on impeccable visual design, that's actually quite sad. From Microsoft, or even most Android manufacturers, it wouldn't be such a big deal, because that level of visual perfection was never their thing and they never attracted those OCD users in the first place like Apple did.
Apple spent years cultivating the following of these people, now they're seeing what happens when you trigger them.
There's no way to be certain but if there were, I'd wager everything I could that almost all the "claimed OCD iOS users" are instead apple haters flocking to another molehill in attempts to build another fake mountain.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Very true.
Traditionally on /. there's also a link in the summary, not just the title
`Trap Crap Clickbait site for Hares. https://gizmodo.com/tag/ios-11
Ah yes, the much discussed apple persecution complex. Get help; its probably not too late.
I've upgraded 3 iphones and 2 ipads and haven't had a single issue. No bugs for me.
Or, you know, it could be literally decades of Apple marketing to perfectionists. You can't market to perfectionists, build a userbase of perfectionists, and be surprised when every flaw is pointed out when you start slipping.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
More like people who have no idea what phone they have really have no credibility when it comes to being part of this discussion.
yeah! only OCD people need to use the "i" character... there is no limit to the reality distortion field, truly.
i don't have the latest iphone so i can't atest to that. i have an iphone 4 and it works.
as a software and hardware engineer, the apple ios like anything is on again off again and has been on a winning streak since 2000..
when steve died, so did his brutal feedback on what works and what doesn't for the people and consumer. steve was in and out of apple because of brutal directness that sometimes the board did not like, but he was right, and they were usually wrong, when it came to style and engineering.
tim cook's team is probably just using the B team on the latest ios just like microsoft did and does; skip OS releases. move the A team to the next OS, and give the B team the current... oh, the C team we just pay just in case, those are the test developers... occasionally they come up with a good idea..a set of tools..
enjoy.
"... either the CEO makes bad choices, or he is unable to manage his staff."
This recent Slashdot discussion lists other indications of insufficient management at Apple: Should Apple find another CEO? One of the comments: More about recent management of Apple
Those are not bugs, they are complaints. Bugs have a testcase. Take your angry energy and spend it on writing up a reproducible testcase, and I'm sure Apple will fix it for you.
"But I shouldn't have to!"
But you do. Because ultimately it's probably caused by some third-party keyboard that got installed without your knowledge by some app that you kid downloaded when you weren't looking.
Help Apple help you.
"Hard to make ends meet with just $250 billion in the bank."
Is this a time for charity? Should each of us send Apple a dollar?
No, people love Apple. And I'm being serious.
OK, yes some people hate Apple, but in general Apple users fall into the "I Love Apple" camp. And that's Apple's problem these days. Those I Love Apple users are feeling a bit betrayed.
Used to be, you could justify the Apple Premium (and I say that as someone who has never owned or used an Apple device, except for maybe 5 minute demos). Apple produced slick, integrated systems. They would only have one answer for every problem or need, but you could be sure that one answer was a pretty damn good answer. It might not fit everyone but at least it was well designed and competently implemented.
Now. There are significant Apple apps/applications that are just not good. Multiple lines of Apple hardware simply aren't as modern or capable as their competitors (sometimes it is only specific features, but still). iOS 11 is buggy. A certain lack of user choice wasn't a serious problem when Apple was regularly delivering "the best", but now Apple frequently isn't "the best".
Apple users are used to paying top dollar to get the best, the sexiest, the stunning. Apple managed to elevate themselves as a brand to something like Louis Vuitton, or Michael Kors, or Prada. Now they don't regularly reach those heights.
The result? Apple users feel betrayed. Maybe owning Apple is a sign of getting ripped off rather than being noble and discriminating. Apple may not be a guaranteed sign of having "arrived". The anger from Apple users is a sign their self-image is under threat.
Dude mine wont charge while on. Tells me "This device is not supported" and wont let it charge. Tried new cables, power sources, cleaning the port, updating the software. It's definitely a software bug because if I turn the phone off it charges fine. Such bullshit, about to switch to android, at least there would be some more things I could try to fix the issue.
Operating system developers have a long history of making drastic changes that replace stability with bullshit. The fact that we're still seeing them rewrite iOS for every release is an outright shit show.
The true iSheep will put up with anything.
On the newest version of chrome, Version 62.0.3202.94 (Official Build) (64-bit), if you scroll down on that page to the video section the browser window goes blank, just a white screen... lol
Umm so that OSX 11 I've been using just fine since release day is buggy as hell?
Yeah sure, if ya say so.
Me things some amount of artificial drama is involved for the purposes of creating headlines.
Operation system has bugs! BUGS! Film at 11. Please click on our ads.
OCD or not, these are REAL bugs. Thank the OCD types for letting us know that is not how itâ(TM)s supposed to be.
I've been having almost all these same issues too.... how could they not known about these before they released????
better question is why can't they fix their silly messaging app. these are basic things.
If the worker slaves are getting burnt out.
11.0 was buggy. 11.1 fixed most of it. Iâ(TM)m on 11.2 beta and itâ(TM)s much improved.
People griped the same about 9.0 and 10.0. This isnâ(TM)t much different
If I recall, the earliest release of version 3 of the Macintosh Operating System back in the mid-1980s was so buggy it put your data at risk.
If memory serves, it was common knowledge to NOT use the earliest release of version 3.0 unless you absolutely had to have it to make Apple's new external hard disk work.
History buffs are invited to read
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hierarchical_File_System&oldid=808536753
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Macintosh_File_System&oldid=799801356
and their references for more details.
"OCD" does not mean what you think it does.
If you're going to be a troll, be an educated troll.
"impeccable visual design"
Have you seen the icon color scheme on Apple devices? When they released the rainbow icon colors the next day I came in to work and traded my iPhone for a Samsung.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Or, you know, one could use the modding of people who comment on stories that paint Apple badly on slashdot compared to other site like Ars Technica as a proxy.
There aren't enough OCD perfectionists in the world to make up enough people claiming "Not neatly aligning the heading with the search bar" == "Buggy as hell". However the ranks of Android zealots here that see Everest behind every molehill ...
On Slashdot, people who point out legitimate inconsistencies in stories like the "FaceTime already HACKED" story from earlier this week were downmodded into oblivion. and the people saying "This is why I'll never buy APPLE TRASH" were upmodded.
On Ars, people asking "if this is a legitimate hack, and not someone who trained FaceTime using the device password to recognise the 3D print, why don't they say so" were upmodded.
Wait a few days and it is clear that the claims of FaceTime being hacked were by people having the password. Ars doesn't lack stories calling out Apple for problems (Where is the Mac Mini renew. Why is the New MBP & iPhone X so expensive, etc), but they have avoided becoming the abode of trolls like Opportunist who get upmodded here for merely stating "I Hate Apple".
There really is only one conclusion that can be drawn and it doesn't put slashdot in a good light.
Beyond my personal disdain of people obsessing on minor details to make mountains out of molehills, were Ars to come out with a similar story where enough people were upset with the details to comment and mod the complaints up, I'd believe that there was a problem. Right now it's just the usual slashdot haters doing their thing.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
... oh wait.
Maybe Scott had a legitimate reason not to sign the letter.
Check out t him him him him users like me have abandoned Apple email on the iPhone:
https://discussions.apple.com/message/32574857?ac_cid=tw123456#32574857
And fuck these guys in the goat ass for tricking users into auto upgrading via an unlock screen. For those of you that don't know, you may get prompted to auto upgrade via a lock screen immediately after being prompted by prompt to upgrade and stating "Later" -- not realizing that there is a "Remind Me Later" at the bottom of the lock screen. If they're going to trick people into upgrading, the least they could do is provide a stable platform and not screw people over. Additionally, to trick iPhone 6 users into upgrading and then rendering their phone basically useless is monumentally shitty, not to mention an abuse of power on a mass scale.
I don't know how many times people have to keep bashing their heads against this nonsense from ANY vendor and NOT GET IT. No vendor of *commercial* or *consumer grade* software is going to ship a major new release without bugs. Even developers that are held to higher standards, e.g. software systems that could affect human life (think aircraft control systems and so on) also release bugs despite extensive test plans, external audits, high CMM levels and every other relevant quality checking standard and best practice that money can buy. It also extends into other systems, as well, from automobiles to a new Zamboni. Significant redesign means things are hopefully improved, but also open the door for new problems to crop up. You don't want to encounter these problems? Don't run out and buy the latest and greatest $new_shiny_thing when it comes out. Wait a little bit and let the bugs be found and fixed. You want the $new_shiny_thing so bad it hurts? Well, be ready to find a few problems that slipped out.
"used to"
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I think you mean FaceID, FaceTime is Apple's video chat service. It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you can't even bother to look like you know what you're talking about.
Apple's advantage used to be that these issues, no matter how small and seemingly meaningless they may be, simply did not exist. That has been less and less the case each year since Jobs died, yet Apple still markets themselves as though it is an absolute truth.
Don't you think that might be why Apple gets shit on for things like this while it takes much more serious infractions for Microsoft to get a good blasting (and they do get blasted quite often, as well -- and a different subset of people like you come out of the woodwork to point out how "Apple never gets shit on here the way Microsoft does, look at all these haters", when the reality is that both get it when deserved).
It's not the issues themselves that people are bitching about, it's that Apple presents themselves as flawless. At one time, they were close enough to get away with the claim, but they're slipping and that is no longer the case. Most of us who bother to speak on the matter are anything but haters: we see them slipping and are speaking up with hope in our hearts that they may correct course. In a way, those of us who are speaking up are bigger fanbois than those of who who defend them.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
iPhone 7, zero problems, always do a full reboot of the phone after any major update. It's not easy to do on iPhone 7, you need to hold the Lock and Volume Down buttons for 10+ seconds until the phone completely turns off, then hold the Lock button for 5+ seconds to turn it back on. Cold boot takes 1-2 minutes.
Sadly Apple who has basically committed all resources now to IOS even rolling in Mac OS team into IOS group is struggling to put out a stable release. Even after months of beta testing Apple still has to cobble together fixes to even make their products works marginally. I have been lucky with my SE being pretty stable or at least usable. But many I talk to with iPhone 6 or newer are really having some significant issues unresolved so far. I know Apple people use iPhone's I cannot believe nobody at Apple has problems with their devices. This is a company that once pride itself on perfection and its really not close these days.
I've assumed that the owners want this since they should have been fired long ago for being shitty. Seriously, I don't know how they get away with it unless it's intentional and condoned. Or else they are family.
I have an iPhone 7 and I upgrade to iOS 11 the next day of release. I have made all the upgrades except for the last one (lack of time), but since then I don't have problems. Maybe it is buggy in other phones? What's yours and your experience?
I have a small music app that seems to break virtually every even fairly minor release. The call to select a song in a play list (just assigning into the nowPlayingItem) requires the player to be in a particular state (playing, stopped, or paused), and when it is in another state, the assignment has no effect. And the specific required state seems to vary from release to release. And in some releases, the player has to have been in the state for some period of time before the assignment works.
This same crap also affects the API call that specifies how far into a song the MPMusicPlayer should play.
The MPMusicPlayer is a separate process, and it seems that interprocess synchronization is beyond Apple's programmer's abilities.
Also, in iOS 11, I've noticed that the badge in the App Store goes on, but there are no updates visible until I kill off the App Store with a swipe up.
And iOS 11's interaction with my car stereo has gotten worse. When my music app uses the AV player, a lot of the time, the phone starts up the MP player again.
Apple of course never even replies to bug reports, even those submitted by registered developers. Their arrogance is comparable to MSFT's in the 1990s.
Oddly, the summary gives a link to a two-month old critique of the fonts and style, but fails to link to the actual story being summarized.
It's here: https://gizmodo.com/ios-11-is-...
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
I mean Snow Leopard? Couldn't be an ordinary leopard, could it? With its yellow and black pigmentation that would be tantamount to admitting the actual true scientifically proven historical FACT that the Chinese and Africans invented computing as we know it and Babbage, Dickens and Mozart stole it literally at gunpoint.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The comment list is at 161..
with that said, atleast 50% of these comments are mostlikely negative. So can 80.5 voices be wrong????
Hmm I think naught..
Apple people need to revaluate them selves or religate to jobs that only require perception (true or not) and not necessarily technical ability. As is shows in the current product offering..
Places I can think of, Sony Playstation, Magic leap, EA sports,and companies located in the "presidio" Section of San Francisco. I am sure They will all cater and relate to this flawed mode of thinking to just further promote their agenda, remember its all about perception forget actual functionality. Why should we give the masses something tangible, if We can just sell them on an idea that was developed during a lunchtime conversation, with little substance to back it up..
thanks to msmash and her (********** [retracted])stellar thinking process for the click-bait material.. Hope your Stats inflate at the expense of accuracy.
best wishes..
Perhaps they don't want to admit they made a mistake hiring him?
At the bottom of the
"I'm using iOS 11 right now, and it makes me want to stab my eyes with a steel wire brush until I get face jam."
A statement like that makes me wonder about the writer's sanity and qualifications. Perhaps he is the problem.
Our family has iOS11 on one device, being cautious of new upgrades, and so far no problems but we're probably just not pushing the wire brush far enough into our orifices.
Not always see â-that pie was the shit!â(TM)
Means itâ(TM)s good.
a company that has built a reputation for flawless software
Oh come on. Nobody remembers Macos? The Macintosh bomb? Pretty much anything developed by Apple in-house? Flawless software... don't make me chuck my cookies. Reputation, yes, a reputation built by pure spin and outright lying. Flawless and Apple do not belong in the same sentence.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Yup, FaceID. Brain fart.
Oh stop with the laughably transparent straw men will you? "Apple used to be perfect", "Apple presents themselves as flawless", "Ever since Jobs died Apple has lost it's way", etc. You're not fooling anyone with the fake arguments.
There have _always_ been issues with iPhone software, from the first iPhone to every single release since then. No native apps. No flash. Not all apps are retina. The new taller screen format isn't supported by all apps. It doesn't sync with my work exchange server.
Jobs as the perfect Apple CEO? You clearly don't remember the Apple Cube...
Walk up to 100, 1000 or even 10000 iPhone owners and ask them if "Not neatly aligning the heading with the search bar" == "Buggy as hell". I doubt any will care.
Walk up to the slashdot android zealots searching for reasons to justify their choice of platform and _there_ you'll find those who _pretend_ to care.
Again, when Apple gets criticised for faults on Ars, yes there's an issue but when Apple gets blasted on slashdot, it's usually just haters hating.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
If you say so. As I type this on my 2014 MacBook Pro Retina, I look back at how OS X improved with every release prior to Lion and how it's been downhill since then. I look over at my 2011 17" MacBook Pro and contemplate whether I'd have been better off taking Apple up on their offer of extended warranty for the failed GPU, or is installing Ubuntu on it was the right choice; it does run Ubuntu quite nicely, so I think I chose correctly, but I still wonder sometimes. I look at my wife's 2012 13" MacBook Pro and 2016 5k iMac and am happy I was able to buy her the machines she wanted, rather than making her settle for less. She's on her iPhone 6s right now, having owned every model since the 3g until the 7 came out. I wonder where my iPod classic and Mini are and what music I last synched to them. I just took a break from writing this to pick up the iPad Air I use in the living room to control my Chromecast (I have an Aple TV but this is one thing Apple just never got right, so I don't use it) and change to a different show. I haven't quite neared the end of the list of Apple devices I own.
Yet here I am dissenting.
I must be one of those haters. Right?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Decades of, "My Mac NEVER crashes!!!", while the machine promptly explodes in their face, and they immediately blame it on a bad 3rd-party system extension. Don't get me started about all the problems I had with my own personal Macs, like the DVI-D ports not working with any monitor I plugged into it, no audio or CD-ROMs after an OS update (and no patch ever released to fix it), the power cable not wanting to stay in its socket because they insisted in using a proprietary cable with no friction or retention mechanism, etc. This was when Jobs was still around, BTW.
Sorry, Apple has always sucked, and Apple people have always been in denial about it.
The thing is, one can only judge who you are on the Internet from what you post & not what you claim to own.
Instead of going to Ars, reading for yourself the difference in tone/content and judging for yourself, you say "if you say so" and list a bunch of apple gear (which changes nothing).
I will climb down off of labelling you a hater though, If what you've revealed is true, you're an Apple malcontent still pissed that Apple discontinued your favorite 17" MBP. Nothing Apple has done since (& I'm not for _every_ change) can counterbalance the disappointment that they didn't judge that your preferred platform format was worth pursuing.
I could have been who you you claim to be as I almost bought a 17" but when Apple didn't refresh it & came out with the 15" rMBP instead, I bought that & still use it every day. Harder on my ageing eyes & needs dongles, but then I got glasses and found that the lighter weight & having 2 true Gb ethernet ports was very useful (still have every dongle I bought though one or two have shrink tube thermoplastic I added to protect the flaking cords).
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Yeah sure. but you'd never actually _test_ it without the 3rd party extension as that would prove that they were right & you were an idiot. Much better for your ego to hide behind "they wuz wrong"...
Yeah verily, Apple has sucked sooo bad _every_ year since the 90's you're whining about that it turned them from nearly bankrupt into the 900 billion dollar company they are today.
Still burns that they were right, huh?
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
I'll admit that I wasn't really a Mac guy until 2010, but I know plenty of people who have been their whole lives (or, at least, since the Mac came out) and I've used enough of them prior to that to be able to say with some certainty that the guy you just replied to is one of the haters you speak of. My whole point here, though, is that not all dissent is hate; mine certainly is not.
I saw the Mac as something better in 2010. That perception has faded a bit more each year since Lion came out. That's not because I hate, or even dislike, Apple; or do you think I want to know I spent $2500 on what, ultimately, ended up being my knock-around laptop? No, I want to see them turn around and get back to the level of stability, reliability, and usability they had achieved in 2010, back when the Mac I was using actually felt faster than my PC despite being built of slower stuff. Now? A Mac feels markedly slower than a PC built of similar hardware, and it's down to the amount of bloat that's been added to the OS since 2010
Apple refuses to sell me, at any price, a Mac fast enough to match my recent $4000 PC build. A native UNIX environment without giving up the ability to run industry-standard apps I need to be able to run natively, now that's worth at least another $4000 to me on the right hardware. On anything less, the performance would roughly match Bash on Windows on my recent build -- and the only time I deal with that level of performance on Windows is when I'm using Bash.
Mind you, and I repeat myself, this wasn't an issue in 2010; sure, they were still selling last year's CPUs and even older GPUs, but the OS was actually more efficient, so it really didn't matter. We didn't see Spotlight consistently using 5-10% of a CPU core despite no indexed part of the filesystem having changed in days; we didn't have powerd -- the power management service intended to increase battery life without impacting performance -- eating a while core (or two) at idle and killing both aspects of the machine it was supposed to be protecting, not to mention burning my fucking leg; and I'll be damned, but I never saw kernel_task baloon into a multi-gigabyte memory hog and slowly ramp up its CPU usage until the only way to achieve the advertised battery life at idle was to make sure you remembered to reboot weekly to fix that bullshit. I don't reboot my Windows machines weekly, and I've never had to; it wouldn't be such a big deal on my Mac if Apple didn't tout how infrequently they need to be rebooted (with the hidden disclaimer: "for updates").
Apple is a company on the decline, they're just up high enough that yo ucan't see them from the ground and neither you, nor they, have noticed yet. Dissent at this stage is an attempt at prodding them into course-correcting before they fall low enough to notice... because, at that point, they'll have picked up too much momentum to maneuver.
Many of the haters, regardless of their intent, are doing Apple and their fans a huge favor, as well; the sooner Apple stops giving them such low-hanging fruit to attack, the sooner your experience, as an Apple user, improves. Thank them.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Instead of going to Ars, reading for yourself the difference in tone/content and judging for yourself
What makes you think I haven't? It's possible that we simply disagree on this matter. In fact, that's the reality.
one or two have shrink tube thermoplastic I added to protect the flaking cords
Oh god, the flaking cords. I always forget about those unless I have my charger plugged in... They need to fix that issue, seriously; I think most of us would accept a slight change in the texture of the cord if it meant not having to replace it in less than 2 years. With 3 Mac laptops in the house, I'm replacing one every 9 months or so.
I'll say, though, the original charger that came with that 2011 MBP never flaked -- my wife managed to snag and cut it 3 separate times, though, which did ultimately shorten the life of the puck, which died silently in the middle of my workday in the middle of 2014. The battery life of that machine meant I was able to finish my workday before going out to buy a replacement, which flaked apart within 6 months. I'd probably still be using the original power supply today had my wife not shorted it out 3 times.
Those are the kind of changes I'm talking about -- subtle "this is better" changes that are actually worse in the long run; like the charger cords being wrapped in a material that feels better when new, but flaking off within a year or two.
Apple's excuse the first time is that it's caused by frequent bending. Okay, well, I was using the same power cord at home and at work (this is before I worked from home) and I was coiling that fucker up at least twice a day, so... why did it only fail right at the plug? That part never got bent as tightly as the rest of the cable.
Next up, it's caused by the oils in your skin and by being pulled on. Okay, no, not buying that excuse, as I pull it out by the metal body precisely because I was taught by my engineer father that strain reliefs are intended to protect cables from accidental pulling and bending forces, not mistreatment. Not that I'd call what's on these a "strain relief". But whatever, if that's what they want to blame it on, maybe I'm not always doing that like I think I am, I'll roll with it, even though I handle the rest of the cable much more often (when wrapping and unwrapping it) and it still only frayed at the plug.
But, then: It's caused by heat. That's the last thing apple said to me about it. Heat. Think about that! What source of heat would affect only the plug end of the charging cable? Enough that it would become brown and brittle, mind you. Well, there's wither the laptop itself (and I've never had my charging port get hot that I've noticed -- not like the bottom of the damn thing under load), an internal short in the cable, or the wire being too thin for the current it's carrying. But still, the failure is always around that plug.
I'm sorry, Apple, but your older chargers didn't do this. Maybe go back to making them out of whatever those were made of?
Oh, and if you wanted 2 gigabit ethernet ports on a 2011 MBP, you'd only need 1 dongle. Those had 2 Lightning ports and gigabit ethernet so, really, you could have 3 if you wanted. Honestly, if they added Thunderbolt pass-thru to them, you could add 18 to each machine (9 per port, accounting for overhead); 38 if the dongles support Thunderbolt 2. Which still gives the 2011 model one more than the 2012.
That's not a nit-pick to say the 2011 was better, just that your perception that the 2012 is better because you were able to give it 2 is, well, a bit silly. Just like a laptop with 38 (eh, 39) Ethernet ports would be.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Ahhhh, _intelligent_ criticism! It's almost as if it's 2007 on slashdot again...
Re: Apple absent at the high end: No argument. Some are still holding their breath waiting for Tim Cook's promises of a new modular mac but most have died of asphyxia.
My first Mac was a Mac II (the first modular mac) running A/UX. I kept it as our main computer for over a decade but eventually moved to PC's when I needed windows for work compatibility. When VMWare became sufficiently mature (& Vista induced projectile vomiting made Windows unpalatable) after bad experiences with HP, Dell & Lenovo hardware, I moved back to Apple's superior build quality.
None of my macs are seeing the issues you are with spotlight or powerd but not saying you aren't.
Why not shut spotlight down or limit it through settings>Spotlight>Search results/Privacy? If it's _that_ bad it's what I'd do. You _have_ attempted to see if a clean install (with no apps/files copied over) has the same issues? Further tests by manually adding in your files and then apps gradually? Are you sufficiently technical to use dtrace? Have you attempted to reset the SMC? Some weird problems can be SMC related.
I've never rebooted my Macs except for electrical work, updates (and a couple rare SMC issues) & don't see the most recent OS's as being less good than the tabby series. I work in IT security & have professional grade firewalls protecting my nets so staying updated is important to me. Given how you are seeing strange issues I begin to wonder if you might have a problem with stowaways.
I'd prefer it if the haters would intelligently promote their platforms. Unfortunately, too too many just keep repeating the same stupid debunked lies.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
We agree that Apple power cords, lightning/dock/usb cables and headphone cables eventually have the white plastic/rubber sheath flake.. I've moved on to cables with braided exteriors when possible and for some things like dongle cables, a shrink-wrap overload is fine but the magsafes, ah, theres the rub...
That said, all my magsafes are still functional. I have 3 anyway so I can leave one home, one at work and take one with me (and can use the home/work one if I forget my normal one at a client's site). The home magsafe rubber sheath is frayed and uses some sugru + some coloured rubber network cable sleeves to reinforce at both ends.
Now that Apple looks to be moving to USB-C for all future MacBooks, they'll be leaving the magsafe sheath issues behind. If the Apple USB-C cable isn't good enough, just get one that is. I'll regret the magsafe connecter but there's a (less elegant) magnetic cable solution for USB-C.
Never had a 2011 MBP so admittedly ignorant on thunderbolt ports on it. I'd thought that thunderbolt came in with the rMBP.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Why not shut spotlight down or limit it through settings>Spotlight>Search results/Privacy? If it's _that_ bad it's what I'd do.
Been there, done that. I don't use Apple Mail or any of the apps it wanted to index, so of course I turned those off; same for iCloud. I do use spotlight, so shutting it down entirely would not be an option.
You _have_ attempted to see if a clean install (with no apps/files copied over) has the same issues?
Well, then the 2011's GPU died, and I couldn't get it to boot into a usable state to get files off of it (I did eventually pull the drive and get at the files before wiping the drive and installing Ubuntu on it) and I ran out and bought this machine, that's how I started with this machine. I expected indexing and whatnot for a couple of days, especially given that I the first thing I did was install my IDE (fresh copy downloaded form the vendor) and clone the rather large Git repo I was working on; I also expected that to die down within a week and it did not.
I don't think you get much cleaner of an install than a freshly opened box. This has been an issue from day 1.
Further tests by manually adding in your files and then apps gradually?
Indeed, as explained above I didn't immediately pull the drive from the 2011; I installed just what was needed for my work. When I did pull the drive, a couple weeks later, I used it as an external (USB) drive for a while to get a feel for what I might actually need off that drive and was very selective in what I kept.
Are you sufficiently technical to use dtrace?
Given the nature of my work, I should hope so. Given the fact that I needed a system I could do actual work on and not a full-time maintenance job, the Mac became a secondary machine by the time I might have cared to dig that far into it.
Have you attempted to reset the SMC? Some weird problems can be SMC related.
SMC and PRAM both, for unrelated issues.
As for the powerd issue, well, I'm not the only one seeing it. In fact, a lot of people are. Likewise for the issue and kernel_task RAM and CPU usage.
Given how you are seeing strange issues I begin to wonder if you might have a problem with stowaways.
You mean malware? That thing we've been told over and over doesn't exist on Macs? I'd find it quite ironic if that were the case, given that I have a security background myself and have never had an issue with it on Windows, despite that platform's reputation. That said, I have never seen any odd processes running and rkhunter and clam both report a clean system. I ditched clam and ran WebRoot for a while but it caused its own issues -- but also reported a clean system.
If, by stowaways, you mean holdovers and cruft from a prior OS installation, unless it came that way from the factory we can rule that out right out of the gate. I haven't upgraded this machine past Yosemite, which was the current version when the machine fell out of daily use; and I had these same issues on Mavericks, which the machine shipped with. Yosemite was a clean install, as well.
I'm about to repurpose this machine, so it may see High Sierra (also as a clean install) soon. We'll see if that fixes things, but I won't hold my breath.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Do you see the issue on all of your macs or just the one?
If just the one, Ever tested to see if you have the issues without your IDE/git implementation? Ever added the IDE/Git to the others? Yeah, for you, where you _need_ them it'd suck if either one was to blame but it'd also mean that you've been looking in the wrong direction (& blaming the wrong people).
I don't use an IDE nor GIT so I'm of no use in comparing.
Yeah malware. Intelligent people know that there are much _fewer_ virii/worms/trojans on MacOS, and don't fall into the trap of believing that there aren't _any_. Not even Apple marketing has ever made the claim that _no_ Mac malware exists.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Do you see the issue on all of your macs or just the one?
Just the one. The IDE is installed on all, Git is installed on all, and neither of those run as services. For reference, I run the same IDE (and Git, for that matter) on Windows and Ubuntu and it causes no issues on those platforms either. Safe to say both can be ruled out, especially given that they didn't cause issues under Mountain Lion on the 2011. A friend of mine with the same model (minus the dGPU) has the same issues, mind you, and he's not a developer and does not run an IDE, nor Git, so that further points to an issue with this model of Mac.
Not even Apple marketing has ever made the claim that _no_ Mac malware exists.
Let's be honest, here. What, exactly, do you think the lay consumer gets from "Macs don't get PC viruses"? That might not literally be what they're saying, but they absolutely have to know that's what people are getting from it and, well, it's dangerous. It's so very dangerous, because it leads to people thinking they don't need protection and they can click on every link under the sun because they truly believe "Macs don't have those problems".
When you're marketing your product as being so simple to use that you don't have to be a computer genius to use it ("Just Works"), you have to expect that a large enough subset of your customers won't understand the difference between malware (the broader category) and a virus (a subset of malware), let alone the difference between a PC virus and a Mac virus. That means Apple's marketing is either incompetent (they don't realize that people will misunderstand the message) or malicious (they don't care that people will misunderstand the message). Which is it?
When Apple takes it on the chin over little stuff, there really and truly is a good reason for it. They've postured themselves to be an easy target through years of marketing their product as the safe solution for the average (e.g. less-knowledgeable) user, so any flaw in their system that pokes a hole in that becomes easy fodder for the haters. You see the same thing with Linux, in all honesty, but it takes a bit more to mount a legitimate attack against Microsoft because they (eventually) owned their reputation as vendors of a vulnerable platform and have been working somewhat diligently to correct course -- Windows is no longer the easy target for criticism that it once was. They still have a long road ahead (dropping mandatory telemetry and instituting a feature freeze would more or less remove the remaining targets on their collective backs), and it may well be too late for them at this point, but they're not the easy target they once were; Apple has taken that title, for now.
Remember, there was a day when bashing Microsoft was the "in" thing, and that day was not long ago.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
There's no way to be certain but if there were, I'd wager everything I could that almost all the "claimed OCD iOS users" are instead apple haters flocking to another molehill in attempts to build another fake mountain.
And then they come to /. And further amplify their Hate by "pointing out" those same posts, as ACs.
Ah yes, the much discussed apple persecution complex. Get help; its probably not too late.
As countered by the much experienced AC anti-Apple posts...
but you'd never actually _test_ it without the 3rd party extension as that would prove that they were right & you were an idiot
Well, back in those days I worked in a newspaper office, a strictly Mac-only operation, and being the office geek, one of my tasks was maintaining our Mac network. Testing extensions was a regular thing, and yes, Apple's own extensions were responsible for tons of those crashes. My favorite thing was reinstalling a system from scratch and immediately having crashing problems without installing Photoshop, Word, Quark, and so on. I recall OS8 had something like 30+ 1st-party extensions enabled by default, and most of them could be disabled to make the system more stable -- much like disabling useless services on Win95.
Incidentally, it was the brand new OS8 that caused half of our CD-ROMs to just die for no reason, and inserting an audio CD caused an instant lock-up. Apple seemed to think it was a hardware issue and offered to fix our machines at $300 a pop, which of course I refused since I knew damn well it was a software/driver issue. They did eventually fix the problem with the 8.1 "Superpatch", but it took Apple almost a full year to release it.
The audio and DVI-D problems were with my Mini, and those never got fixed or even acknowledged. I was able to "fix" the DVI-D problem myself using an 3rd-party underclocking utility. People found out the Mini GPUs were overclocked and caused the DVI-D connector to run out of spec, making it incompatible with almost all monitors on the market (except Cinema Displays, the only displays Apple apparently tested for compatibility). Using the underclocking utility was a PITA since it would only work once the system boot to a desktop, and I decided I didn't want to look at a black screen while the machine was booting, so I just used it with a spare CRT and the damn VGA dongle. As for audio, I didn't need that since I'm a graphics guy and eventually re-purposed the machine as an IRC server. By that time, I wasn't working for the newspaper anymore, and was using PCs almost exclusively, anyway. I ditched Apple entirely once it was no longer a job requirement.
Oh, and that power cable that wouldn't stay in place? It wasn't a broken or defective cable, just a piss poor proprietary design. As such, the only way to fix it was with duct tape.
But, hey, we all know haters never have real-world experience. I've only discussed the defects... don't even get me started about annoyances.
I switched over from Samsung over 2 years ago because I was sick of how buggy everything was on my carriers version of android OS. It wasnt the stock android, and I didnâ(TM)t want to pay out of pocket for the google phone at the time, so I moved over to Apple.
The reasoning was that the apps would be more tightly controlled and prevent the lagging and bug issues I was having. None of my friends with iPhones at the time had the same issues I did with my S5.
The last two years, yes there were some bugs, but none that affected the key things I use my phone for: making calls, receiving/sending texts, receiving/sending emails, and web browsing. That was pretty flawless, which is key for how much I travel.
Now Iâ(TM)m on 3 week work trip: the alarm isnâ(TM)t working and I had 2 days of late starts. I thought I slept through the 4 alarms I have set up. But turns out the alarm doesnâ(TM)t sound. Also, everything is laggy when switching between apps, getting pages to load, selections not registering, gestures not working properly, every time I go in and out of airplane mode - all my notifications go beserk (anything i havenâ(TM)t read, but removed the notification on, pops up again and it takes a few minutes to do this - these are not new notifications, thing like calendar invites , texts, emails even) and the stock keyboard doesnâ(TM)t want to cooperate. Iâ(TM)ve wanted to hurl my phone against a wall multiple times each day. The only other time Iâ(TM)ve felt this way was with my previous Samsung devices. This has not been my normal iOS experience until this release.
Being in the industry with a product that has software, it makes me wonder what the Apple beta test process is like. Most of these things should have been caught, unless they relied on public beta testers to provide the details.
I wanted to see what the next iOS was about, so i signed up to be a beta tester. The beta tester feedback app didnâ(TM)t work consistently. So I wonder if a lot of these issues were reported, but never made it to Apple because they didnâ(TM)t get the feedback app to work.
Ugh. Idk. Iâ(TM)m thinking I might go back to Samsung or get the new pixel. Yes it might be buggy, at least you can customize you environment. Iâ(TM)m torn because Iâ(TM)m hoping it will get better...but will it? Itâ(TM)s been 2 months...and my device that has beta on it isnâ(TM)t faring much better.
Wtf you reproduced text alignment "bugs"? Are you fucking serious? Yes, I actually RTFA, I don't know how that crap went to first page.
Re: Spotlight issues. Weird but your sample set is too small to draw conclusions. You also don't appear to have done any testing on a clean OS install without installing anything else. No Dtrace logs showing what Spotlight is indexing? SSD or HD?
Re: Malware.
My experience & that of the vast majority of former Windows & now Mac users is that while the threat of malware isn't zero it's sufficiently small that Apple's marketing is justifiable. That won't stop nitpickers from pointing out that there are a few example of infected macs, but the difference between reinstalling relatives PCs every three months and them being trouble free since moving to Macs is flagrant.
I think you overestimate your influence if you think that Apple is "taking it on the chin" from people trying to make mountains out of minor bug mole-hills. Apple's fortunes have indeed flagged somewhat in the Mac space but I think that's because they're not proposing what many people want. The absence of support for >16Gb LPDDR4 in Intel chipsets has meant that many people have been keeping their rMBPs (me included). No significant upgrades in the MacMini since 2012 so no upgrading it (again me included). A powerful and _modular_ Mac Pro. Hopefully 2018 will bring changes.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Snort, what you don't have any stories on how difficult it was supporting the Lisa? No apple II stories?
You don't see _any_ problems invoking 20+ year old problems that in large part predated Steve Jobs' return to Apple in claiming that Apple has _always_ sucked? Naaaahh, why bother trying to understand what brought Apple from those dark days to the company it has become when you can piss and moan like you were already 90 years old complaining how the world is not as good as it used to be.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
You also don't appear to have done any testing on a clean OS install without installing anything else.
Again, how much cleaner of an install do you get than a brand new machine?
No Dtrace logs showing what Spotlight is indexing?
No time when I have actual work to be doing. By the time I had time for that, I had money to replace the machine and put it in a secondary role where I just wouldn't care anymore.
SSD or HD?
2014 rMBP. You tell me.
My experience & that of the vast majority of former Windows & now Mac users is that while the threat of malware isn't zero it's sufficiently small that Apple's marketing is justifiable.
If it leads to Mac users blindly clicking because they believe they're invulnerable (and it does), it's hardly justifiable. It' every bit as dangerous as I said it is.
That won't stop nitpickers from pointing out that there are a few example of infected macs, but the difference between reinstalling relatives PCs every three months and them being trouble free since moving to Macs is flagrant.
Huh, funny, I'm the tech guy in my family and I can count on one hand how many systems I've had to clean malware off of in the past 2 decades on one hand. Aside from my wife and I, my mother is the only other Mac user in my family -- and only since I gifted her a MacBook 4 years ago. Did you ever stop to think, though, that more infections are detected on Windows than Mac because actual installations of antimalware applications on Macs are virtually nonexistent? You can't take detection rates on a platform where nearly everyone uses antimalware tools and a platform where almost nobody does and pretend that's a valid comparison of infection rates. It's not.
The truth is, we have absolutely no idea how many Macs are infected with this, that, or the other thing. Because nobody is looking.
Further, it's hardly a nitpick to point out that, despite the vast majority of Mac users thinking their systems are invulnerable because that's how they interpret the marketing behind them, they're just as vulnerable to the user installing trojans, adware, and all sort of other nasties as any other platform. Anything that might make the user think they don't need to take care in what they click is inexcusable.
I think you overestimate your influence if you think that Apple is "taking it on the chin" from people trying to make mountains out of minor bug mole-hills.
What makes you think I think they're taking it on the chin, or that the even should be? It should also be worth noting that the difference between a mountain and a molehill is relative; when Apple insists that the land is flat, the tallest hill you can see is, indeed, a mountain.
Hopefully 2018 will bring changes.
We can hope, that's what most of us who are speaking out are doing, but we have 5 years of solid history under Cook indicating that we should, perhaps, not hold our breath. Yes, I realize we've had Cook for 6 years; most of what came out in that first year, though, was formulated under Jobs' lead.
The first change we need to see from Apple is a change in leadership.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
What cleaner install than a new machine: My impression was that you didn't test it clean without installing any of your files/tools. Apologies if I misinterpreted. Also, without a Dtrace of the spotlight process you say is taking up so much CPU you cannot say that the problem has really been looked at.
Malware: My advice for the Windows malware refugees (like most of my family) is to practice some common sense. Streaming sites and cracked software are no-no's and for those that insist, the use of a free forticlient client allows one to avoid many risks by performing web filtering by categories (malware & new domains blocked => no obvious malware over the last 5 years). Do Mac owners believe in general that they are invulnerable? No, that's just another straw man you're setting up to knock down.
Using a mac an iron clad gives no guarantee of malware invulnerability but renders much _fewer_ problems. I haven't been called to reinstall my relative's Macs every 2-3 months the way I was with windows, so there's that.
Are there people looking for Mac Malware? Yes there are: Talos, Checkpoint, Fortinet, Stormshield, etc are actively looking for malware and don't limit their research to Windows Some also regularly re-evaluate previously submitted files/domains to see if they were date activated & will then notify everyone among their subscribers that received the files/consulted the sites to start containment/disinfection.
Re taking it on the chin: You used the expression in referring to Apple. That kind of makes people thing that you thought that when writing it.
Re Jobs the Angel/Cook the Devil: You do remember the Lisa, the Newton & the Mac Cube right? Jobs had his share of missteps.
Perhaps I came back into the Mac world at the right time as both my rMBP & my Quad-core MacMini are still sufficient to my needs (though I await a 32Gb rMBP). Cook, even with his missteps hasn't brought doom upon Apple (Mac sales have been almost monotonously up by 10% year after year under Cook) and I hope to see octa-core rMBPs + minis with more RAM before I need to update. With the Mac Pro failing to impress & the neutering of the MacMini since 2012 one hopes that Cook can learn from his mistakes. The problem with the rMBP is _Intel_, not Apple. When Intel finally releases >16Gb LPDDR4 in their chipsets I'm confident that a rMBP that fits my needs will be available.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
My advice for the Windows malware refugees (like most of my family) is to practice some common sense.
That would have been good advice for them when they were on Windows, as well.
Do Mac owners believe in general that they are invulnerable? No, that's just another straw man you're setting up to knock down.
Of course, after meeting me, most Mac users no longer believe that; and those who still do deserve whatever they get. But I do get in arguments over whether Macs have malware issues at least half the time someone tries to tell me how much more safe and secure macOS is than Windows.
Your sample size appears to be your family and Slashdot. My sampling of Mac users is different, so we 're going to have to agree to disagree on this point.
Using a mac an iron clad gives no guarantee of malware invulnerability but renders much _fewer_ problems. I haven't been called to reinstall my relative's Macs every 2-3 months the way I was with windows, so there's that.
My experience shows that, had you instilled that computing common sense into them while they were still on Windows, you wouldn't have been reinstalling their Windows machines every 2-3 months, either. As someone who uses both platforms daily (I'm typing this on the aforementioned MacBook, which I use when I'm not at my desk -- and later, after a massive plate of turkey, I'll probably sit at the powerful Windows workstation in my office and work for an hour or two), I can tell you that the same common sense keeps both of them safe.
That might not have been the case in the first year after XP came out (longer, if you insisted on doing fresh installs from a pre-SP1 CD) and I seem to recall somewhat severe issues if you used IE or went online without at least closed NAT between you and the internet before that, but Windows hasn't been the swiss cheese you imply since the end of 2002. Of course, it's not like macOS was so clean in 2002, either.
If you only consider the types of malware listed in that list, there aren't alarmingly more for Windows than there are for macOS (pre-OSX). When you adjust for target size, the Mac took a disproportionate number of hits; I mean, Apple only held 5.8% of the market in 2006, and that was after OSX had been released and they had been had been blowing up for a while. I can't find market share numbers for OS 9, but
I'd say we should compare infection rates but, again, since most people just don't run any sort of antimalware on their Macs, well... we can't.
Contracting for a company that primarily writes Mac software, we do gather those statistics and I have a large enough sample size (over 300k) to say that no, most people do not run any sort of security software on their Macs. Call it a strawman all you want, but reality disagrees with you.
Re taking it on the chin: You used the expression in referring to Apple. That kind of makes people thing that you thought that when writing it.
I had to search through posts as I did not remember having said that. Yes, I'll fully stand behind my words; it's difficult to take it on the chin if you don't stick your chin out there. When you start getting all smug (which you have to admit Apple has been since OSX came out) and keep looking up, your chin just sticks out there, ready to catch a fist or a load of -- something -- whenever someone wants to throw one your way. Microsoft used to have the same attitude, also unwarranted, and took just as much crap for it.
Re Jobs the Angel/Cook the Devil: You do remember the Lisa, the Newton & the Mac Cube right? Jobs had his share of missteps.
So 3 failures you can quote over his entire career and he's as bad as Cook, who's been destroying product lines for 6 years solid? Cook has made more missteps in 6 years than Jobs did in his entire career; yes, Jobs
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
My advice for the Windows malware refugees (like most of my family) is to practice some common sense.
That would have been good advice for them when they were on Windows, as well.
My advice is generally platform agnostic so yeah, Windows/Linux/Mac, all need some some common sense. The difficulty being what qualifies as common sense of course.
Do Mac owners believe in general that they are invulnerable? No, that's just another straw man you're setting up to knock down.
Of course, after meeting me, most Mac users no longer believe that; and those who still do deserve whatever they get. But I do get in arguments over whether Macs have malware issues at least half the time someone tries to tell me how much more safe and secure macOS is than Windows.
Doesn't change that it's a strawman. Apple doesn't claim that Macs are invulnerable, I don't claim that they are. _You_ are and then saying subsequently that they aren't. Strawman arguments prove nothing. That most malware has been developed to target Windows is a fact, not an opinion.
Your sample size appears to be your family and Slashdot. My sampling of Mac users is different, so we 're going to have to agree to disagree on this point.
You're conflating personal experience and sample size. I work in the domain of IT security and thus have a larger sample size than just family. Slashdot is irrelevant in any case.
Using a mac an iron clad gives no guarantee of malware invulnerability but renders much _fewer_ problems. I haven't been called to reinstall my relative's Macs every 2-3 months the way I was with windows, so there's that.
My experience shows that, had you instilled that computing common sense into them while they were still on Windows, you wouldn't have been reinstalling their Windows machines every 2-3 months, either. As someone who uses both platforms daily (I'm typing this on the aforementioned MacBook, which I use when I'm not at my desk -- and later, after a massive plate of turkey, I'll probably sit at the powerful Windows workstation in my office and work for an hour or two), I can tell you that the same common sense keeps both of them safe.
Well then I question your experience as most of the malware risks are clearly Windows targeted and thus Macs will generally pass through unscathed. Different OS, no Flash installed, No Java installed & use of non-MS application suites all help to make the Macs less vulnerable even when one of them ignores my advice & clicks on a "invoice.docx" sent by an unverified source. The same mistake on a windows machine will not be so benign.
That might not have been the case in the first year after XP came out (longer, if you insisted on doing fresh installs from a pre-SP1 CD) and I seem to recall somewhat severe issues if you used IE or went online without at least closed NAT between you and the internet before that, but Windows hasn't been the swiss cheese you imply since the end of 2002. Of course, it's not like MacOS was so clean in 2002, either.
Again, I'm not claiming that Macs are invulnerable, just less targeted, so less exploited. Any streaming site that bothers can find exploits for old versions on MacOS browsers. That _the_streaming_sites_ & other malware generally don't is because almost all of them just don't bother.
Using 15 year old data doesn't help your case as it is hopelessly out of date and immaterial to almost everyone anyway.
If you only consider the types of malware listed in that list, there aren't alarmingly more for Windows than there are for macOS (pre-OSX). When you adjust for target size, the Mac took a disproportionate number of hits; I mean, Apple only held 5.8% of the market in 2006, and that was
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Doesn't change that it's a strawman. Apple doesn't claim that Macs are invulnerable, I don't claim that they are.
I never claimed that you or Apple made that claim; I pointed out that many Mac users believe their Mac to be invulnerable.
_You_ are and then saying subsequently that they aren't. Strawman arguments prove nothing.
I am what? The only strawman here is your claim that I ever made any of the above claims.
That most malware has been developed to target Windows is a fact, not an opinion.
It's also one I've not argued against. What's your point?
You're conflating personal experience and sample size. I work in the domain of IT security and thus have a larger sample size than just family. Slashdot is irrelevant in any case.
You've asked all of those people if they believe Macs are invulnerable? You see, I encounter Mac users who mistakenly believe that all the time, so I know they're out there. How many people you've personally interviewed about this is your sample size, that might be why I'm conflating the two.
Well then I question your experience as most of the malware risks are clearly Windows targeted and thus Macs will generally pass through unscathed.
Maybe I instilled the common sense in them before I agreed to touch their computers and that's what kept me from having to restore their systems so often? I mean, really, not everyone has a you or a me they can call on to fix their shit; if Windows systems really needed to be restored every 2-3 months, and there are 1.25 billion of them in use today, there would be almost 28 million Windows PCs being restored every day. There's not, so I really and truly must question your experience. Likewise, you're welcome to question whatever you want, that doesn't make my words any less true.
Again, I'm not claiming that Macs are invulnerable, just less targeted, so less exploited.
Again, I'm not claiming you're claiming that. You tore down that argument I wasn't even making so easily, it's almost as though it were made of straw.
Using 15 year old data doesn't help your case as it is hopelessly out of date and immaterial to almost everyone anyway.
What 15 year old data did I use? I think we're both making the same point, here, though: what was the case 15 years ago is not relevant today. Windows hasn't been the insecure, infected within a minute of going online, mess that you make it out to be for wince 2002; yes, that's 15 years ago, but I'm referring to all of the time that has passed since then, up to and including today, which is certainly not 15 year old data.
Put another way, your point was valid 15 years ago, based on 15 year old data which, as you've said, is "immaterial to almost everyone anyway."
As most modern malware uses the Internet, supervision of what exactly is being accessed is a useful proxy. Backtracking to the malware agent once the traffic has been identified again shows that the vast majority is Windows based (exceptions made for the IP Camera & Firewall botnets that aren't Macs or Windows anyway).
For someone who supposedly works in security, you sure are and ignorant shit. And I mean that as a statement of fact based on my own observations, not as an insult.
When you say "supervision of what exactly is being accessed is a useful proxy", you clearly imply that you are monitoring for known threats. Since most known threats affect Windows (and for the good reasons on which we both agree), surely you see how confirmation bias might play a role in your perception, no? Just in case, I'll explain: if you're monitoring an IP address belonging to a C
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
To keep this post short... well... less long... I'll just touch on what you got wrong in your reply.
s/what/IMO what/ which is only as strong as your arguments which have been shown to be weaker than you think.
Doesn't change that it's a strawman. Apple doesn't claim that Macs are invulnerable, I don't claim that they are.
I never claimed that you or Apple made that claim; I pointed out that many Mac users believe their Mac to be invulnerable.
You are the only one making that argument because every one else recognises that it is overstated to the point of being a strawman. Just give it up. Nobody but you believes it or that demonstrating it is false means anything.
Splitting will be more manageable.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
You are the only one making that argument because every one else...
Everyone else being you, because nobody else is involved in this thread at this point and I highly doubt anyone is bothering to read this far down. Bravo.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
That most malware has been developed to target Windows is a fact, not an opinion.
It's also one I've not argued against. What's your point?
You've been repeatedly arguing "that Macs users think that they are invulnerable" and that that's false, then pooh-poohing the fact that Macs are less vulnerable than Windows. The minor GUI inconsistencies the TFA whines about are not as nearly as important to Mac users as this much lower susceptibility to malware. That's been the point you've repeatedly avoided recognising over the last dozen exchanges.
You're conflating personal experience and sample size. I work in the domain of IT security and thus have a larger sample size than just family. Slashdot is irrelevant in any case.
You've asked all of those people if they believe Macs are invulnerable? You see, I encounter Mac users who mistakenly believe that all the time, so I know they're out there. How many people you've personally interviewed about this is your sample size, that might be why I'm conflating the two.
Oh please... Like the people at Talos, Checkpoint, etc performing de-assembly of malware whose reports I read regularly need to be told that Macs have malware? This argument is embarrassingly puerile.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
What 15 year old data did I use?
http://lowendmac.com/2015/clas... details Mac virii dating from 1997-1998. It's not 15 years old it's _19_ year old data.
As most modern malware uses the Internet, supervision of what exactly is being accessed is a useful proxy. Backtracking to the malware agent once the traffic has been identified again shows that the vast majority is Windows based (exceptions made for the IP Camera & Firewall botnets that aren't Macs or Windows anyway).
For someone who supposedly works in security, you sure are and ignorant shit. And I mean that as a statement of fact based on my own observations, not as an insult.
Aww gee snookers has run plain out of coherent arguments & is now resorting to ad homonyms. Grow up junior.
When you say "supervision of what exactly is being accessed is a useful proxy", you clearly imply that you are monitoring for known threats. Since most known threats affect Windows (and for the good reasons on which we both agree), surely you see how confirmation bias might play a role in your perception, no? Just in case, I'll explain: if you're monitoring an IP address belonging to a C&C server for Windows malware, you probably wouldn't expect to see non-Windows machines connecting back to it. You're stating the obvious as an attempt to show that you're right, while hoping that nobody will point out that what you've just said is not relevant.
Your malware knowledge is just as dated as your Mac AV info. Talos, Checkpoint etc are not just looking for known threats. They keep track of signatures of infectable elements and regularly re-examine what has been transmitted/received and to/from whom. Thus when a 0day is used it'll pass through. However when someone analyses the malware (AV vendor, side effects of it activating anywhere that gets it noticed at any of their client's sites, etc), they can then notify every one of their other clients that saw the signature.
How much malware is found and analyzed only because it was identified by heuristic detection routines in antimalware software? You work in security, you should know this. Here's a hint: the vast majority. We'll circle back around to that, though, because it rolls right from what you said above to what I'm about to quote.
Go try and teach your grandmother how to suck an egg junior. You're clearly in no position to believe you have any hints to give.
Presence/absence of AV software is NOT a useful data point for Malware infection rates.
Bingo. That was my point. Thanks for letting me know you got it! I'm so proud of you!
Err, _you_ argued that "most people do not run any sort of security software on their Macs" as is it made a difference, not me. You're incoherent.
The truth is that you have infection rate numbers for Windows because the means to detect those infections is widely deployed; you don't have those numbers for Mac because the means to detect those infections is not widely deployed.
Accesses to known & discovered botnet adresses, modification of files on servers, analysis of baselined network traffic Data loss prevention monitors that trigger on the discovery of critical data are all discovery techniques that you didn't know of because they didn't exist 20 years ago. None of these are Mac specific oh ignorant one.
I think you overestimate your influence if you think that Apple is "taking it on the chin"
I think we simply define "taking it on the chin" differently.
I think that you (re)define it as it suits your ego, moving the goalposts as needed.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Just what product lines has Tim Cook been destroying month after month after month, hmmm?
Hmm, well, you go on to talk about their growing sales... did you stop to look at whether that growth was in dollars or units sold? Fewer units sold might imply people are less satisfied, overall.
Apple's Mac sales have been growing almost without interruption over the past 5 years in both units sold _and_ in value. Find another argument, oh ignorant one, this is yet another one where you're wrong.
Killing off the MBP 17"? Replaced by the rMBP in a lighter smaller format.
Right, more pixels in less space. Technically, yes, I can fit the more data on that smaller screen; assuming my eyes can resolve the smaller details. There's a reason some of us like 17" laptops; it's the same reason some of us like 32" monitors. There is no replacement for a larger screen if you fit in the demographic that needs a larger screen. Period.
More like the _same_ amount of visible pixels in less space as everyone who needed the WUXGA 1920x1200 resolution that the 17" had on the rMBP set the resolution to that. The quality of the Retina display meant that it was more than acceptably clear. I accepted that my eyesight was no longer up to the task and got eye glasses. You, quite visibly turned to brooding over sour grapes.
Releasing a rMBP with half the battery or twice the weight _would_ be a mistake.
Who ever did, or implied, either of those actions?
You did, every time you whined about your old 17" MBP and how it was the perfect form factor and hor "a month under Cook does make Jobs appear to have been perfect". You also avoided detailing all the "missteps" you think that Cook has been making. Come now junior, don't be shy.
It doesn't surprise me that someone who chose to buy a transportable that never actually sold that well (the 17"MBP) thinks that bigger, heavier rMBP's would be better. It doesn't make it right, especially when you see how well the most recent rMBP is selling.
Why would a Ryzen MBP be bigger and heavier? Careful with that flame, there's lots of straw around.
You're confused (no surprise there anymore). Doubling the size & weight of the battery is so that non-LP RAM >16Gb could be used, not for Ryzen (against which I had other arguments). Read it again, this time slower...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Because, for you it suffises to repeat something long enough for it to become "the truth"? Objective facts don't matter?
I assume you voted Trump.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
So what if I did? I didn't, but so what?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
You've been repeatedly arguing "that Macs users think that they are invulnerable" and that that's false
I've been repeatedly stating that I've met many a Mac user who has believed that, which is true. In your eyes, my experience simply can't be true because it differs from yours; that's indicative of a mental health condition that I'm not qualified to diagnose. You may want to go see someone who is.
The minor GUI inconsistencies the TFA whines about are not as nearly as important to Mac users as this much lower susceptibility to malware. That's been the point you've repeatedly avoided recognising over the last dozen exchanges.
Who do you think is whining about those inconsistencies? Certainly not Windows and Android users; they would never see them. Think about that for a moment.
Oh please... Like the people at Talos, Checkpoint, etc performing de-assembly of malware whose reports I read regularly need to be told that Macs have malware?
No, I'm sure they don't. I'm also sure that they can't analyze and report on what they haven't seen.
details Mac virii dating from 1997-1998. It's not 15 years old it's _19_ year old data.
Again, consider what point I was trying to make. You keep ignoring that and concentrating on the age of the data used to compare systems from that era; of course, it would be painful to you to admit that your point about the age of my data supported my point about how long ago your position on Windows vulnerability was true. My secondary point was that, back when Windows was that vulnerable, so was Mac -- and I've never said that current Macs are as vulnerable as OS9, that's a point you invented to argue against. Go read it all again after you calm down a bit.
Aww gee snookers has run plain out of coherent arguments & is now resorting to ad homonyms. Grow up junior.
No, I'm just fucking tired of you sitting here shouting "STRAWMAN! STRAWMAN!" when all you're actually tearing down yourself are your own strawmen.
Your malware knowledge is just as dated as your Mac AV info.
Again, the data was relevant to the point; the point, of course, being that something that far back is not relevant, a point which you supported in your reply.
Talos, Checkpoint etc are not just looking for known threats. They keep track of signatures of infectable elements and regularly re-examine what has been transmitted/received and to/from whom.
That's great. Macs are more prevalent in startups; startups are less likely to employ those solutions. You know both of those facts as well as I do. Your appeal to authority argument (that you've got a security background) is worthless to me as I know my own background and, well, I don't have to fall back on that as an argument. Let's just say we're not too different, you and I; at least, I'm not too different form who you claim to be. You'll see why I'm pointing that out in a moment.
Thus when a 0day is used it'll pass through.
It'll pass through what, exactly? The security solutions that aren't in place and, therefore, can't detect it? You see, someone with a security background would realize that the solutions have to be implemented to be effective.
However when someone analyses the malware (AV vendor, side effects of it activating anywhere that gets it noticed at any of their client's sites, etc), they can then notify every one of their other clients that saw the signature.
Very good, that is how it works! Now, what about all those startups, where most commercially-used Macs are found, and those home users? You know, everyone not using those solutions? There are very few Macs on the protected side of any sort of IDS (and you know
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Oh, also, it's "suffices" and "ad-hominem". Objective facts do matter, which is why I stick to the facts I know, even when you insist that the people I've met (who believe their Macs to be invulnerable) must not exist because their mere existence completely fucks your world view.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Whatever junior, when you lie to yourself and others the way you have demonstrated here, nothing you say can be trusted. And that includes your claims that spotlight has a problem on your old Mac. Your avoidance of saying what dtrace said about the fake spotlight issue can now be laid to rest as well.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Whatever junior, when you lie to yourself and others the way you have demonstrated here, nothing you say can be trusted.
So your argument has boiled down to shouting "FAKE NEWS" at the top of your lungs?
And that includes your claims that spotlight has a problem on your old Mac.
You mean the one I'm sitting in front of right now? Go back and read again; I made it clear that I still use the machine, just not as my primary.
Your avoidance of saying what dtrace said about the fake spotlight issue can now be laid to rest as well.
I haven't avoided it; dtrace hasn't said anything because it's literally not worth my time. I made that clear, as well. My hourly billables are high enough to justify not putting aside billable work during the day and I respect work-life balance (my own and that of my employees) too much to bother with it off of work hours. Sounds like someone's simply jealous that it was literally cheaper for me to put the machine in a role where the impact of its issues would be minimized and replace it than it was to lose billable hours tracking it down.
You're the one who's in denial, my friend. Every issue I stated my Mac has, I provided references to others having the same issue; you chose to ignore all of that because it doesn't fit your world view that Macs never have real problems. Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything we true Mac fans (who want to see the company put out its best work) is cosmetic.
So, while you're thinking I'm some hater who's making shit up to destroy your precious Apple, I've almost certainly got more Apple gear in my home than you do (hell, there are more iPads than people here, it's like the damned things are multiplying) and have been considering, for the past few days, putting Mac Minis on my employees' desks so they no longer have to share this MacBook Pro for testing.
I'm far from a hater, my friend. I simply want Apple to live up to their "Just Works" advertising from a few years ago the way they used to.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.