Walmart Says It's Preordered 15 of Tesla' New Semi Trucks (theverge.com)

Soon after Tesla unveiled its new electric Semi Truck and Roadster 2.0, Walmart says it has preordered 15 of the trucks. The Verge notes that the deal was "likely in the works before Tesla unveiled its new truck to the public." From the report: The pilot is planned for the U.S. and Canada. Five of the preordered vehicles will be for Walmart's U.S. business, and 10 will be for its Canadian routes, the company said. Walmart's fleet has about 6,000 trucks. "We have a long history of testing new technology -- including alternative-fuel trucks -- and we are excited to be among the first to pilot this new heavy-duty electric vehicle," the company said in a statement. "We believe we can learn how this technology performs within our supply chain, as well as how it could help us meet some of our long-term sustainability goals, such as lowering emissions." Musk said the truck would enter production in 2019. JB Hunt Transport Services, a 56-year-old company based in Arkansas, also reserved "multiple" new Tesla trucks as well.

Comments

What is the delivery time frame?

[Jzanu]

Walmart has money to burn because they don't actually buy inventory until its sold at the register/cart level. Every other business faces requirement for predictable delivery on capital equipment purchases, largely because it all must be put into use quickly to break even as an option to better than the alternatives.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[BadTuna]

How do you not buy something until after it has been sold?

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[Jzanu]

Suppliers pay Walmart for shelf space for greater retail distribution, they own items on shelves until purchased by customers then Walmart uses EDI systems to purchase from supplier and pocket revenue difference.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you not buy something until after it has been sold?

consignment.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[Anonymous Coward]

15 trucks is pathetic.

  Now let’s look. At what a real trucking company thinks.

Old Dominion Freight Line Inc (ODFL.O), the fourth-largest U.S. less-than-truckload carrier, which consolidates smaller freight loads onto a single truck, said it was not signing on.

“We met with Tesla and at this time we do not see a fit with their product and our fleet,” Dave Bates, senior vice president of operations, said in an email, without elaborating.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[Rei]

Is JB Hunt not a real trucking company?

And your link is wrong.

Also: it's not like every company making preorders ends up on Slashdot. Just to pick a couple more: both the grocery store chains Meijer and Loblaw have placed orders.

Lastly, as for the number of trucks: expecting any given operator to go out and order a thousand of a brand new type of truck for their fleet without doing a trial run first is pure idiocy. The question is what will they think after these trucks have been in their fleets for a couple months. Expect either A) a massive surge in sales that continues into an exponential growth pattern, or B) meagre sales from thereout, only by companies for which their environmental footprint outweighs costs. We probably won't know which way it's going to go until 2020. I fully expect (A), but I'm a Tesla bull and I understand that not everyone is.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[Anonymous Coward]

Two companies is pathetic.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[haruchai]

" Now let’s look. At what a real trucking company thinks"
JB Hunt is a real trucking company and they've reserved several Tesla Semis

Re: What is the delivery time frame?

[Anonymous Coward]

True if most retailers. They have enormous positive cash flow. The invest this cash and make money on it. If they buy trucks instead, they will earn less interest. Kind of makes your argument moot, imho

Re: What is the delivery time frame?

[Anonymous Coward]

idiot

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[tlhIngan]

Walmart has money to burn because they don't actually buy inventory until its sold at the register/cart level. Every other business faces requirement for predictable delivery on capital equipment purchases, largely because it all must be put into use quickly to break even as an option to better than the alternatives.

That is actually less true today than ever before. Walmart is just one of many companies who adapted to the Amazon effect by becoming real estate moguls and renting out the store shelves.

Basically a lot of stores now do consignment supply - the vendor supplies the goods to the store, and the store only pays the vendor when the good is actually sold, minus a store cut.

You might also see this termed as "Vendor Managed Inventory" - because it's the vendor who is providing the store stock. This is also coupled with contractual store rentals where companies may rent aisles of the store. This is easily seen when going to the electronics department, and looking at video games. You'll notice there are separate aisles of Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony - each of these companies has basically contracted with the store to rent a certain amount of space. The store must provide the rented space, even though it seems silly. You may see racks and racks of empty shelves - or perhaps an entire rack is filled with a single game, 1 copy deep. This is because the rack is rented, and even if there's nothing to fill it, it still belongs to the renter. Employees often shuffle items to fill the racks because empty racks are ugly. Its also why for example there was an empty rack for PS Vita stuff - Sony dictated that rack was for PS Vita, and even though the Vita is dead, the store is obligated to maintain it.

Of course, you see that say, the PC Games section in the same store is non-existent - because that's actually the store's owned rack, so that's whatever games the store deems will sell and justify that rack's presence. Unless a big PC game publisher comes and rents a rack (which does happen, in which case it's filled with that publisher's games) the store's own inventory typically pales in comparison.

You might find the stores are often willing to price match online stores in this case as well - since the vendor is paid whatever the price is minus a store cut, if the store matches the online price, the vendor is paid less.

Note this applies to the big national chain stores. Mom and Pop stores still have to buy their inventory like normal, and rarely do vendors actually request to rent some space

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[Anonymous Coward]

stupid idiot

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[bad-badtz-maru]

Walmart doesn't do this, though.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[bad-badtz-maru]

The US trucking industry is dominated by less than 10 companies.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[bad-badtz-maru]

Christ, modded to +5 and it's basically an urban legend. Just because walmart does vendor-managed inventory doesn't mean they're consigning product at the store level.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[Anonymous Coward]

stupid idiot

The preceding post was brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department

Hate Tesla

[backslashdot]

Why do so many people hate Tesla? For fucks sake they are trying you gotta give them credit for that. Better than sitting around trolling on slashdot. Anytime they do something, out come the haters hoping they fail. You guys are happy with Ford, GM, and I guess Mack trucks? A Mack truck from 1970 is hardly changed from 2017 ..ok they added a cup holder .. nobody has a problem with that?

Re:Hate Tesla

[AmiMoJo]

I have mixed feelings about Tesla.

On the one hand, the technology is cool, the cars are amazing and Musk has done more than any other individual to push electric vehicles forward. I might buy a Model X next year, in fact.

On the other hand, Tesla is selling full self driving as an option ($3000) to be delivered by firmware update at some indeterminate point in the future. They already massively exaggerated what their current Autopilot can do, their current AP2.0/2.5 hardware hasn't even reached feature parity with the old 1.0 hardware, and if you were to start a lease on a new Tesla today there is a good chance you would never actually see FSD before handing the car back.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets assume Walmart is a bad actor.. they are using some of their "bad" money to try out an electric truck. That sure makes the world more of a better place than if they spent that money on executive bonuses.

Re:Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

Hate Tesla? Or Musk? I dunno about hate. I think the fanbois who are trying to hold him us some kind of real life Tony Stark are silly. As far as I know he's just an idea man and doesn't have any real engineering creds. I don't believe he could build his way out of wet paper bag – he hires people to do that for him.

He got lucky wrt getting rich and I'm glad he's putting that money to good use.

I don't think he's winning any brownie points with the way he's dealing with labor issues at the Tesla factory.

Re:Hate Tesla

[EnsilZah]

Don't know about specific people, but they seem to be disrupting a lot of entrenched industries.

Traditional car manufacturers, car dealerships, oil and coal producers and users, automotive manufacturing unions, possible driving jobs in the future, the list goes on.
I'm sure at least some of those industries are happy to spend a few million in lobbying and astroturfing, convincing workers their jobs are at risk, riling up people who think anything having to do with 'renewable energy' is a vast liberal conspiracy to take their tax money and god-given right to breathe petroleum exhaust.

Re:Hate Tesla

[PolygamousRanchKid]

A Mack truck from 1970 is hardly changed from 2017 ..ok they added a cup holder .. nobody has a problem with that?

That's not a cup holder. That is the CD-ROM/DVD tray. You are using it wrong.

Folks hate Tesla because they are jealous that Tesla is achieving so much amazing things.

Re:Hate Tesla

[PolygamousRanchKid]

I don't believe he could build his way out of wet paper bag – he hires people to do that for him.

When Bill Clinton's press secretary Mike McCurry resigned, he commented on the Monica Lewinsky fiasco something like: "You know, sometime very intelligent people do some really dumb things."

The former US President Ronald Reagan was a bit of an idiot . . . but he was smart enough to realize that he was an idiot, and got folks like James Baker and Casper Weinberger to do all the work for him. Musk hiring top talented engineers is the best move for him.

If you want to reach the stars, try standing on the shoulders of giants.

Re:Hate Tesla

[AmiMoJo]

Did I mention that their current hardware doesn't even do basic stuff like auto rain sensing and 360 degree cameras. The Model X is an amazing car in many ways, but also lacks stuff that is standard on cars costing 1/5th as much. The promises of firmware updates that take years to come are not a substitute.

It makes me wonder how many engineers they have working on it when they can't get this basic stuff finished.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a moron.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

As a Model S owner, I have mixed feelings as well.

The car is incredible. I've driven 80k+ miles since 3/2014 and it drives as good now as on it's first day. No degredation of the battery, acceleration is still like a rocket, and the only things that broke down were a single tail light and something to do with the windshield wiper fluid (maybe the line was clogged). All of which was covered by warranty. Still on the original brake pads. Tires wear out, but so far they're covered by Michelin tire warranty.

On the other hand, they definitely need more software engineers working on the screen apps. There are easy things they should be able to add to the navigation and music apps that I've been waiting literally years for.

They said the focus on the software side is autodrive, but along the way they should at least give us some easy/visible upgrades.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to jack off giants, open your huge mouth again.

Re: Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true and fit the record, the never has been and never will be a real Tony Stark. Too many diverse field of study to matter then all. The only way anyone gets things built is by hiring expertise they need.

Re:Hate Tesla

[JaredOfEuropa]

doesn't even do basic stuff like auto rain sensing

Seriously? I remember reading somewhere that the Model 3 doesn't have that sensor either, and the windshield wiper control on/near the steering wheel only let you turn it on or off; the speed being controlled via the LCD panel. I couldn't quite believe that they'd leave out such a basic feature... That's gonna be a lot of fun on the highway.

Re:Hate Tesla

[JaredOfEuropa]

They say invention is 10% inspiration and 90% transpiration. The same goes for innovation: 10% is about the ideas themselves, 90% is about implementing them. That doesn't only require engineering, but also someone to direct those engineers, raise capital, make the right strategic decisions, spend the right amount of cash on the right stuff at the right time, hire the right guys, and build a strong executive team with similar capabilities. There's a hell of a lot more to it than luck, or being at the right place at the right time: a good entrepreneur knows what to do when luck presents itself, and there's plenty examples of those that didn't know and consequently fail.

Re:Hate Tesla

[vtcodger]

Seems to me like Tesla's truck is a perfectly reasonable vehicle. At least on paper. It's surely targeted at fleet operators like Trashmart and J B Hunt who will presumably use it on fixed routes with their own charging stations at their depots. If it works out and their bean counters decide that it saves money, they will buy more and expand their charger network. If it doesn't save money or has other serious problems such as problems in snow and ice, they won't buy any more of them.

Note that Tesla's autopilot looks to be far better suited to freeways than random surface streets. It might even work and be safe. I would think that these trucks will be used mostly on freeways so there is the possibility that eventually -- after a few tens of millions of safe miles -- they might be allowed to drop off their driver at the freeway on-ramp and pick up a new driver at the destination off ramp.

Re:Hate Tesla

[AmiMoJo]

They had a rain sensor in the V1 hardware but ditched it for V2. Their plan was to use the cameras instead but their software is really struggling to get existing features to work properly.

It's kind of a joke, isn't it? A 100k car missing really basic features because their software engineers are struggling.

Re:Hate Tesla

[dgatwood]

Did I mention that their current hardware doesn't even do basic stuff like auto rain sensing and 360 degree cameras.

That's not true. At least on the Model X, their current hardware (if you buy the self-driving upgrade) has eight cameras, providing the computer with a full 360-degree camera view. Their current software, however, doesn't expose that to the user.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Kjella]

Well it's refreshing to have a CEO that actually dares to have big, bold, idealistic visions. And by that I don't mean someone like Jobs who'd hype their current product but you'd have no idea where Apple was going 3-5 years down the road. In fact, the stretch goals are so high and so far out he doesn't run the risk of running into the Osborne effect but are more like guiding stars than any actual plan or roadmap.

I mean the marketing pamphlet for SpaceX could have read "Providing cost efficient satellite and ISS launch services through refurbished rockets" if it was run by a bean counter. Instead it's like "We want to build a BFR and colonize Mars", that's the vision. Somehow he's made it a success story to make some impossible goal and then coming up short is expected. Like now it's months of turn-around time to relaunch a "flight proven" rocket, he says lets do it in 24 hours. He's relaunched a rocket once, he says we'll make rockets that launch hundreds of times.

I think in terms of getting a team together and solve the engineering difficulties it's great. Why are we doing this, to shave a few bucks of NASA's budget? Nah. And we're not going to design something that's fundamentally unworkable for the long term goal, maybe we need a stopgap solution but we're stretching for that Formula One pit stop. Few things bring out such smug geek/nerd satisfaction as pushing the boundaries and announcing "They said it was impossible, so we did it".

For the customers though, I'd say Musk's companies are notoriously unreliable company with timelines and grand designs and promises that aren't really grounded in reality. If their current products do what you want them to do, by all means go ahead and buy it. But if you're waiting for something that's on the roadmap don't hold your breath. I got suckered into that Model 3 hype and pre-ordered... and then I started thinking WTF I'm waiting years for a car I know hardly anything about on a schedule I can't control, then I canceled. I decided I'd rather pick from the cars that are on the market when I need it.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

inb4 Musk cocksuckers Rie FUCK YEAH!

Re:Hate Tesla

[Applehu Akbar]

Musk launches real engineering creds month after month from Florida, Texas and California. And yes, people would, it seems, buy a used booster from this man.

Re: Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't Tesla need to achive a significant market share to achive those 'disruptions'?

Sure, they have won the concept war, and the bloggers, they are a-strutting. There hasn't been much delivery. And there have been shortfalls of most predictions thus far.

Re:Hate Tesla

[drinkypoo]

At least on the Model X, their current hardware (if you buy the self-driving upgrade) has eight cameras, providing the computer with a full 360-degree camera view. Their current software, however, doesn't expose that to the user.

So the hardware can do it, but the software is incapable? Sounds like the ideal car for Apple fans. There are competent developers out of work and Apple's phones suck for the same reason, Apple is hiring lames and is proud.

Re:Hate Tesla

[drinkypoo]

then I started thinking WTF I'm waiting years for a car I know hardly anything about on a schedule I can't control, then I canceled. I decided I'd rather pick from the cars that are on the market when I need it.

You decided that you needed the money back, because otherwise you'd be happy for the chance to purchase one of those cars at the given time. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend it's not an economic decision just to hate on Tesla.

Re:Hate Tesla

[serviscope_minor]

So the hardware can do it, but the software is incapable? Sounds like the ideal car for Apple fans

Or linux users.

https://xkcd.com/644/

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do so many people hate Tesla?

Teslas are expensive as hell to repair.

$10,000 for a scratch:
https://forums.tesla.com/forum...

$34,000 for a minor bump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

The Edison quote is "10% inspiration and 90% perspiration."

There are ideas like the people who figured out how to make CRISPR, and then there are ideas like "let's build electric cars and dig tunnels." One of these is not like the other.

Re:Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

Next you'll be taking credit for those too. Because you had almost as much to do with them as Musk did.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Rei]

At least they finally got around to a proper camper mode. That's another thing that had been waiting years.

How's the update for automatically moving the steering wheel out of your way when you get out working out?

Re:Hate Tesla

[Rei]

Ever priced a repair on any other nearly-6-figures car? As for your links: the first one clearly involves a dented panel replacement (hopefully no frame damage as well), not just a simple paint repair, and the second one is just the guy guessing at what's wrong with a car that he can only see through pictures. It's IMHO a bit concerning that that car has damage on both the right rear *and* the front left. What sort of accident was that car in? Some sort of highway-speed bump-spinout-hit a barrier crash? Not to high G-forces (the airbags didn't go off), so it sounds like two very confined point hits rather than a spread-out crush.

Re:Hate Tesla

[JaredOfEuropa]

Hence the distinction between invention and innovation. One of these is not like the other.

Re:Hate Tesla

[AmiMoJo]

Actually, they lack a nose mounted camera that can see the road right in front of the car. They couldn't do an overhead 360 degree view with their current hardware.

The side cameras are monochrome plus red too, so the image would be in black and white.

Even that would be preferable to nothing though. They could do side and rear view. At the moment all they have is a rear camera view.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Did I mention that their current hardware doesn't even do basic stuff like auto rain sensing and 360 degree cameras. The Model X is an amazing car in many ways, but also lacks stuff that is standard on cars costing 1/5th as much. The promises of firmware updates that take years to come are not a substitute.

It makes me wonder how many engineers they have working on it when they can't get this basic stuff finished.

You can't market "basic stuff", and people won't make YouTube videos about it. People will make reaction videos about Ludicrous Mode though (and now Plaid).

Tesla is going after a particular demographic, and that demographic doesn't care about rain sensing that much. And with prices of over US$90K, and shipping in relatively low volumes, they can't be a mass market OEM. Perhaps that will slowly change as the Model 3 ramps up production (eventually), but Tesla has also been niche until now.

At the very least they're helping to shape the conversation and show that electric (and hybrid) cars don't have to be boring / slow Priuses and such. You can treat them as a "high anchor" (found in survey design) to show what's possible even if 95% of the general public will never use those capabilities (especially acceleration).

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Folks hate Tesla because the engines don't go vroom. I'm fucking serious. They equate noise with raw power. New Ford Mustangs are so efficient they are too quiet. As a result they pipe vroom vroom noises into the cabin through the stereo. You can pull the fuse to the radio and get a quieter ride.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Octorian]

Yeah, they seem to focus on software updates that make for good press releases, but don't give a damn at stuff that would only be noticed by everyday drivers.

There are bugs in the whole media player software stack that enrage me every time I drive the car. I don't even know whose ear to yell into about them anymore, because they simply don't care. (And if you mention on forums, you get drowed out by 50 pet feature requests to the point that actual bugs get lost in the noise).

Thankfully, these are really the only actual issues I have with the car. Everything else about it is wonderful, and its kinda hard to go back to an ICE car after driving one.

Re:Hate Tesla

[magzteel]

The former US President Ronald Reagan was a bit of an idiot . . . but he was smart enough to realize that he was an idiot, and got folks like James Baker and Casper Weinberger to do all the work for him.

Pretty standard "conservatives are idiots" line.

He was so stupid that among other things he was head of Screen Actor's Guild, Governor of California, and President of the USA for two terms.

What's on your CV?

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever priced a repair on any other nearly-6-figures car?

Except a Tesla is just an over priced Kia in terms of build quality and materials.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the hate for Tesla comes from anti-American sentiment from international posters. Europeans in generally can't stand the idea of the US being the tech leader in the 21st century industry of electric vehicles, just like theUS was the leader in the auto industry for a big part of the 20th century. The phoenix rises from its own ashes, and this makes the competition very worried.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do so many people hate Tesla?

Because their fanboys make blantanty false statements like this.

A Mack truck from 1970 is hardly changed from 2017 ..ok they added a cup holder .. nobody has a problem with that?

Re: Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

...starting with spelling & grammar.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

The repair costs exceed repair costs of Rolls Royce cars. This confirms my suspicion of Tesla cars being overpriced ($3000 authorized quote for a $300 fix at a local shop).

Telsa cars are the equivalent of iPhones, 5x the price of what it should be. Hopefully, some carmaker will come up with a $20,000 EV soon.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Dog-Cow]

It would be a good idea to have your mother fuck your ass with a rusty pickax.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Musky Boy is full of shit, makes outlandish claims, and made his money rigging PayPal to work like a bank without banking regs. Try to sue them for your money some time. It's a nightmare. SpaceX is cool, but Tesla only lives on because investors and governments are using other people's money to fund their splurge. It's like when I was eating caviar at product launches in 2000. It wasn't gonna last. Bob Lutz agrees. Let's watch the fireworks!

Re:Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

"I don't even know whose ear to yell into about them anymore, because they simply don't care"
Yell at them & Elon on Twitter.

Re:Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

"He was so stupid that among other things he was head of Screen Actor's Guild, Governor of California, and President of the USA for two terms"
None of those automatically make for a highly intelligent person. Anyone who knows how to pander can do it.
Trump is a good case in point

Re:Hate Tesla

[blindseer]

ok they added a cup holder

Well, they had to put something in that space where the ashtray used to be. Getting rid of the ashtray was an improvement, no?

Actually lots has changed since the 1970 Mack truck. They got more fuel efficient, have catalytic converters, electronic controls, and many other improvements that add to safety, comfort, and economy. They still burn diesel fuel, sure, but not the same kind of diesel fuel that they ran on 40 years ago since what we have now burns cleaner. The reason we still burn diesel fuel is because that fuel is cheap, energy dense, liquid at atmospheric pressure and temperatures, and reasonably safe to handle by moderately skilled labor.

I'm fine with today's Mack trucks. They are what makes modern living possible.

Re:Hate Tesla

[blindseer]

None of those automatically make for a highly intelligent person. Anyone who knows how to pander can do it.

Knowing how to pander is itself an aspect of intelligence, and we even have a term to describe this, "social intelligence". Intelligence isn't just understanding mathematics, there are many aspects to intelligence and any kind of intelligence test worth mentioning will test many different aspects of one's intelligence. Excelling in one aspect of intelligence tends to lead to excelling in others but of course if excelling in one meant an equal grasp of the others then we would not be testing for such different aspects of intelligence.

Trump is a good case in point

I suppose he is. He was intelligent enough to manage a campaign against someone who was thought by many as impossible to defeat. He was intelligent enough to understand that it's the electoral college that counts, not the popular vote. I remember complaints of past presidents being "selected, not elected". Every POTUS was selected, not elected, that's just how it works.

Re: Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Knowing how to pander is itself an aspect of intelligence, and we even have a term to describe this, "social intelligence".

Nope. Pandering isn't related to intelligence, it is related to integrity. Any idiot can pander.

And intelligence tests do not in fact, test intelligence, they measure aspects of behavior that are linked in some ways to intelligence, but offer no substantial connection to said quality.

He was intelligent enough to manage a campaign against someone who was thought by many as impossible to defeat.

Nope and nope. Not only did almost nobody think Hillary Clinton was impossible to beat, he was not intelligent enough to manage his campaign, it was done by others, and it turns out firsthand accounts like Jefferson Sessions claim it was ill-managed and poorly done, they didn't know what they were doing at all.

In any case, nobody thought Trump was doing it, and even now, generals are having to assure the public they won't obey illegal orders from Trump and his own staff is reporting that they only show him polls to make him feel good.

That's bad.

He was intelligent enough to understand that it's the electoral college that counts, not the popular vote.

Nope. In fact, he previously fumed in outrage over it when it fit his preferred narrative of bashing Obama(factually wrong though his analysis was), and was planning to do the same in 2016, but instead having lost said vote, found himself compelled to fabricate a false story about illegal voters because he couldn't handle his massive underperformance compared to Obama or even George W. Bush.

Sorry, but the biggest loser is still Trump.

I remember complaints of past presidents being "selected, not elected". Every POTUS was selected, not elected, that's just how it works.

How it works is broken, in no less than six different ways, and that isn't even counting the false understanding by many miseducated fools that think it does something for small states.

Re: Hate Tesla

[blindseer]

Nope. Pandering isn't related to intelligence, it is related to integrity. Any idiot can pander.

Really? Then why didn't Hilary Clinton just "out pander" him? To successfully pander for votes one must be able to calculate what kind of pandering will be successful. Clinton pandered too, she just didn't do as well of a job at it. She wanted to lay many of the troubles of the nation on white Christian heterosexual males and guess what happened? Those white Christian heterosexual males came out to vote and voted for Trump. As did most anyone that fit in only one of the white, Christian, heterosexual, and male boxes.

Sorry, but the biggest loser is still Trump.

Except that he's President and you are not.

As for everything else you claimed, I'll need some sources on that or it didn't happen.

Re: Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

She wanted to lay many of the troubles of the nation on white Christian heterosexual males and guess what happened? Those white Christian heterosexual males came out to vote and voted for Trump. As did most anyone that fit in only one of the white, Christian, heterosexual, and male boxes.

That didn't work so well in the recent elections in Virginia where the candidates of the deplorables got their butts kicked by just about every diversity imaginable.
The self-described "Chief Homophobe of Virginia" who'd held his seat since 1992 lost to a transgender journalist who's the lead singer in a death metal band.

Re: Hate Tesla

[blindseer]

The self-described "Chief Homophobe of Virginia" who'd held his seat since 1992 lost to a transgender journalist who's the lead singer in a death metal band.

Was this person also named Trump? I didn't follow the race but I assume not. Is Virginia the USA? It's in the USA but it's not the totality of the USA. I fail to see how this is relevant to the social intelligence of our current POTUS.

A quick Google search tells me that Virginia has a higher proportion of non-white and non-Christian people than the totality of the USA. I didn't bother to look for their sexual preferences or their preferences for death metal music. Demographic differences quite likely played a part in the differing outcome. Also, the outcome likely differed on being that one of the choices weren't named Clinton. Maybe there were candidates named Clinton, I didn't look that up either.

Maybe this transgender journalist pandered better. Maybe he/she/ze/it/they was, perhaps, just more qualified and it had nothing to do with pandering. This may actually apply to Trump too. Perhaps voters did not want someone that was a US Senator, Secretary of State, or whatever else Hilary Clinton did or claimed to have done.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you can't repair Tesla's stuff. Seriously. Ford, GM and Mack will sell you their overpriced tools so you can repair their vehicles. And, in many cases, you can buy cheaper "knockoff" tools that will do much of the same things.

You know what you can't do? Repair a wrecked Tesla unless you work for Tesla.

You know what you can do? Repair a wrecked Ford, GM, or Mack truck in your own backyard. Yourself. Hell, you can even weld two halves of two salvage vehicles together to make one that works. That's called ownership. It's a concept that Tesla doesn't understand. It, however, *is* a concept that Open Source Evangelists understand, because there's nothing stopping you from forking source code and building whatever you want in your basement right now.

Unless what you want to fork is a Tesla.

Re: Hate Tesla

[Barsteward]

if she was a man and said all the same things, then she'd probably have trounced Trump more convincingly. There is still too much "she's a woman and should be seen and not heard" christian voters out there.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Barsteward]

absolute bollox. we're cheering him on, even more now as it will get up Trumps' nose. The only problem I've got with the car, is that they look too big on UK roads

Re:Hate Tesla

[Barsteward]

"Hell, you can even weld two halves of two salvage vehicles together to make one that works. That's called ownership. " thats sounds more like a accident waiting to happen and "rip off the customer" territory. Knowledge is the thing, if you don;t know what you are doing with ICE, you won't be able to repair it either. You might want to watch this on how to modify a Tesla https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:Hate Tesla

[drinkypoo]

The repair costs exceed repair costs of Rolls Royce cars. This confirms my suspicion of Tesla cars being overpriced ($3000 authorized quote for a $300 fix at a local shop).

A dented panel is not a $300 fix. Replacing the panel will be billed out at MSRP + labor, and it also has to be painted to match. Repairing the panel will be billed out as materials + labor, and it requires a spot repair which is both a color match and a blend, or that the full panel be sprayed. Either way you're looking at $1000+ for the job to be done correctly by someone who is competent.

You clearly have no idea what spot repairs cost.

Re: Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

" Maybe he/she/ze/it/they was, perhaps, just more qualified and it had nothing to do with pandering. This may actually apply to Trump too.
Perhaps voters did not want someone that was a US Senator, Secretary of State, or whatever else Hilary Clinton did or claimed to have done"

So they rejected Mitt Romney but elected Trump??
"Claimed to have done"??? What did Clinton "claim" that isn't the case?

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

And too small for Australia's roads.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do so many people hate Tesla?

Their obnoxious arrogance.

You guys are happy with Ford, GM, and I guess Mack trucks?

Nope, but there are plenty of others to choose from.

A Mack truck from 1970 is hardly changed from 2017 ..ok they added a cup holder .. nobody has a problem with that?

I had to look up Mack trucks. They seem to be a foreign subsidiary of Volvo. I've never seen one. Other trucks have changed a lot over time, though. A current cabin would almost seem like spaceship to someone in 1970.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Europeans in generally can't stand the idea of the US being the tech leader in the 21st century industry of electric vehicles

But then, they aren't. Far from it.

just like theUS was the leader in the auto industry for a big part of the 20th century.

What part would that have been?

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

What part would that have been?

By 1950 the US had produced more than 80% of world's motor vehicles. (cite) Did you overlook most of the 20th century, or are you being willfully ignorant?

Re:Hate Tesla

[Talderas]

Your assessment hit it right on the head. Long haul transport companies aren't looking at them because of the mileage range and what depots they may operate. If Pilot Flying J or Love's were to install chargers from which semis could charge you would see long haul route providers take a look at Tesla. My guess is that they are going to watch he success of the Tesla semi and if it looks like Tesla might provide something which can incorporate a sleeper cab then they'll probably announce plans to provide such infrastructure and in turn you'll see other semi fleet operators look to electric semis.

If the electric semis are truly $0.25 cheaper to operate per mile than diesel then the transport companies will look at it. A 30 minute charge time is doubly beneficial because it will force their drivers to take breaks while at the truck stop.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought GP was arguing the US was a technological leader, since that is what s/he implied Tesla could become. Of course the US produced many cars in the first half of the 20th century, nobody denies that. However, they also became increasingling insignificant as a car producer in the second half of the 20th century (see e.g. this page) and American car manufacturers have always been lagging technologically.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

You missed this exchange:

just like the US was the leader in the auto industry for a big part of the 20th century.

What part would that have been?

Not getting the naysayers

[nospam007]

I just don't get why everybody seems to think trucks can only be used for +1000 miles runs.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Jzanu]

Large capacity trucks require large service areas with repeating need up to capacity or smaller modes are cheaper. Distribution centers and cross-docking stations are required before trucks can be loaded for deliveries, and the path for delivery is managed carefully to coordinate with loading. Using LTL wastes space and is only effective in narrow circumstances for perishable goods, etc. Better then to use vans and cars for delivery in short trips to minimize total costs.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad reality isn't on your side and trucks are used mostly for much shorter distances than 1000 miles.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Jzanu]

Learn to read better. The economic conditions required for large tractor trailer style trucks to be the best options must be satisfied or there are cheaper options. They can be used but it is not the most efficient cost effective option, and in business controllable costs must be minimized or you will not last long.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[geekmux]

Learn to read better. The economic conditions required for large tractor trailer style trucks to be the best options must be satisfied or there are cheaper options.

Speaking of reading, the Tesla post from yesterday stated that 80% of US truck routes are 250 miles or less. That is well within the range of the Tesla solution, which was probably a justification to build the damn thing. Today, there are over 130 million trucks registered for commercial use in the US (not including personal trucks which are considered SUVs by DOT).

They can be used but it is not the most efficient cost effective option, and in business controllable costs must be minimized or you will not last long.

Mega-corps are becoming a rather dominant force in business, and those mega-corps build mega-stores. The kind of stores that justify larger truck haulers. When you provide an all-electric option with a million-mile warranty, that tends to be one hell of a justification for those "business controllable costs."

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn to read better. The economic conditions are that trucks are used for much shorter distances. Maybe all the businesses doing that are idiots(seems unlikely to me), but that is reality.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Jzanu]

God damn you fucking musk bots need updates as badly as the Russian ones. He is a piece of shot professionally and a shyster conman. However, the question was WHY which relates to modeling decisions here. Claims by producers supporting their products claimed use case aren’t worth anything.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[JaredOfEuropa]

Any trucker here able to shed light on what a typical long haul drive looks like? No sane person drives 800 miles in one go; one needs to rest every now and then, eat, etc. I imagine it's no different for truckers, in fact there's rules. EU rules say a trucker can drive at most 9 hours a day and must take 45 minutes of rest after 4.5 hours of driving (or take 2 breaks with one at least 30 minutes). That's long enough to fully recharge the truck, provided there's a supercharger station. So it seems to be that this truck will work just fine for long hauls, at least in Europe.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Without anything to back up your claims other than "because I said so" your claims are worthless too.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Jzanu]

Here pick one with math you can understand you fucking retard!

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Jzanu]

Google this Logistics decision modeling filetype:pdf site:edu

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Shorter distance means also that only one is done and truck goes to sleep/recharge or goes on to do another one? I would imagine this can make a difference.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I'm not going to look up your sources for you. Do it yourself or fuck off.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Jzanu]

Fuck you you god damn stupid son of a bitch! You demanded a source for why a field exists as it does and you don’t even know how to understand the only answer possible. You are a dumb ass!

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[drinkypoo]

The USA doesn't have mandatory rest breaks, although we do have maximum allowable hours. We also have several states larger than the vast majority of countries in Europe.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[stabiesoft]

In the US some drivers work in teams (hubby & wife) to extend driving times for time sensitive loads. If it is very critical they may even replace the team with a new team so the truck is running continuously.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Registered Coward v2]

Large capacity trucks require large service areas with repeating need up to capacity or smaller modes are cheaper. Distribution centers and cross-docking stations are required before trucks can be loaded for deliveries, and the path for delivery is managed carefully to coordinate with loading. Using LTL wastes space and is only effective in narrow circumstances for perishable goods, etc. Better then to use vans and cars for delivery in short trips to minimize total costs.

Drayage is one area they would be useful; as JB Hunt points out, especially for containers on regular routes. Charging stations can be setup at endpoints for trips beyond the trucks capacity, no idling trucks emitting pollutants while they wait for their load, and if the port has space you could even leave the trucks at the port for charging and shuttle drivers to the trucks lessening the need to build charging stations elsewhere.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[starblazer]

um, yes we do.

https://keeptruckin.com/blog/30-minute-break-rule/... JJ Keller HOS FAQ... (easier to read than the FMCSA rules)

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[hey!]

I thought the whole point that these trucks are significantly cheaper per mile to operate -- 22% less per mile, according to Tesla's predictions.

If Tesla can actually deliver (and tha'ts a big if!) on a truck that is that much cheaper to run, the economics are a straightforward NPV calculation over the projected lifetime of the truck against the purchase price. And as usual as an individual investor your investment decisions depend on a lot of other things, like cash on hand and opportunity costs.

There are some areas where a truck like this, if it doesn't cost too much more than diesel, is a no brainer. A lot of the goods that come into the port of Los Angeles are trucked to warehouses surrounding LA, and then trucked to stores throughout the area. Round trips are easily within the promised range.

There are also routes in which the promised torque will make a significant reduction in transit time, say from Sacramento to Reno - about 130 miles each way over the Sierra Mountains over Route 80, which boasts a 30 mile stretch with a 3-6% grade.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Jzanu]

The issue of truck size applies regardless of engine, that is the point the musk bots continually miss here. There are more factors involved with loading a truck and operating it on a route for effective delivery. A van is best with any engine over short distances with perishable loads so that it can run more often to reduce spoilage, etc.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

replace the team with a new team so the truck is running continuously.

it's the trailer that need to get there, you can swap out the trucks too

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Lawd you are jaded.
Loosen your cunt.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to write log software for drivers. Most of the logs I saw were 600-700 PER day. For the long haul guys. The LTL guys were typically 250-500. If the truck is not moving they are not making money. Most are paid per mile.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[drinkypoo]

Better then to use vans and cars for delivery in short trips to minimize total costs.

That may have been true before palletization, but since loads are on pallets, you need at least box trucks in the mix. You can't drive a fork lift into a van, nor can you reasonably use a pallet jack, so you can only load maximum two pallets onto it.

Re: Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the relevance of the size of political subdivisions to the rest breaks truck drivers need?

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[bad-badtz-maru]

It's 450 miles per day in the US.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[bad-badtz-maru]

Why are you intermingling the tractor with the trailer? Since you seem to be familiar with the shipping industry, you know that the tractor can pull smaller trailers such as those used for LTL. In the US, the use of LTL freight over TL has increased year over year for many years now. Some of the largest US freight carriers are primarily LTL (Fedex Freight, for example).

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[bad-badtz-maru]

The store's vendors almost always go into a distribution center first, so the size of the store doesn't really matter, and large distribution centers aren't new. The actual industry trend is towards more frequent, smaller shipments.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[bad-badtz-maru]

I'm not sure if you are US-based, but essentially all grocery distribution in the US is done with normal refrigerated tractor trailers. Even restaurants are serviced by tractor trailers, frequently with using a smaller 28' trailer. Box trucks are used only for specialty goods like produce and dairy.

Tracy Morgan says

[Anonymous Coward]

FUCK YOU walmart!

And,

Thanks for the 55 million bucks!

Re: Tracy Morgan says

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank Hillary, who was a Walmart Board Member for many years.

But who will drive them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which self respecting truck driver is going to want to drive one of these rigs?
Where's the chance to get your hands dirty, etc?

Re: But who will drive them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone who loves torque, speed and reliable brakes.

Re: But who will drive them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Reliable? It's still Tesla...

Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they're subsidized out of our wallet. Tax breaks for rich people sit poorly with the working class.

Oh, and you're lying about the trucks. Fuel economy has doubled since 1970, emissions dropped 10-fold, safety has increased amazingly, manual transmissions have been replaced with much more sophisticated automatics than in cars, but sure, go ahead and say nothing has changed.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[geekmux]

Because they're subsidized out of our wallet.

Tell me again how the Too-Big-To-Fail competition is still alive today? How quickly we forget about fucking bailouts. This excuse is growing old and tiresome. You may boycott Tesla, but are a shitload of subsidized industries which you probably continue to support every day by buying their products. Start putting your wallet where your mouth is.

Tax breaks for rich people sit poorly with the working class.

Not having "gasoline" in your budget and emissions pollution your lungs are breaks Musk is trying to deliver to you and the rest of the planet, along with breaks in your electric costs (solar), and in other tax-funded programs (NASA). By comparison, at least there seems to be a return on my "subsidized" investment.

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Tesla paid back any money they got from the govt. Letâ(TM)s ignore all the bailouts the big auto firms you are in love with got. As for tax breaks â" which they get from a couple states .. we need to wean ourselves off oil unless you like funding ISIS. Also if our auto companies fail I hope you like foreign cars.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

Because they're subsidized out of our wallet.

Tell me again how the Too-Big-To-Fail competition is still alive today? How quickly we forget about fucking bailouts. This excuse is growing old and tiresome. You may boycott Tesla, but are a shitload of subsidized industries which you probably continue to support every day by buying their products. Start putting your wallet where your mouth is.

I'm not sure what your point is. But maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet. But on the topic of subsidies, food, or really farms and farmers are subsidized up the wazoo. I don't like that either, but I don't have a lot of choice about buying food. I'm not really inclined to go back to subsistence farming to eat.

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is isn't really helpful. Maybe telling them to vote. To vote differently than they've been voting might be more useful. And probably just as futile.,

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

Tesla paid back any money they got from the govt. Letâ(TM)s ignore all the bailouts the big auto firms you are in love with got.

Also all paid back, IIRC.

we need to wean ourselves off oil unless you like funding ISIS.

In 2016, 82% of our oil imports came from non-Persian Gulf countries. Somehow buying Canadian tar sand crude doesn't feel like funding ISIS.

Also if our auto companies fail I hope you like foreign cars.

I do like foreign cars. There's nothing wrong with that. I own Toyotas. The next car I buy will probably be an Audi. When American makers start making a car I want – including quality – at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll consider them again. When I was growing up my family owned a lot of GMs, mostly Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs. My first car was an Oldsmobile. I still haven't gotten over GM's destruction of that brand.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

You tell me, are Toyota and Honda still subsidized by detroit bailouts ... oh, nevermind. Yes, there's a fucking tax break for rich people buying electric cars, but not for the working stiffs.

Give up on the hero worship. He's trying to get rich and after he was finished violating banking law to steal from us with PayPal, he went to the source in government subsidies. Visionary ... yup, visions of getting rich off the taxpayer's dime.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Visionary ... yup, visions of getting rich off the taxpayer's dime.

Wake me when you find a billionaire not pulling this shit. Or better yet, pull your head out of your ass and understand they all do this shit.

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

When Trump did it you called him smart. When Trump called himself smart during the debate for not paying any taxes, you voted for him anyway.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[perpenso]

Tell me again how the Too-Big-To-Fail competition is still alive today?

I don't think Ford needed a bailout, they had cut costs and taken out loans prior to the economic crisis. They supported the bailout legislation because they feared GM and Chrysler's failure could affect Ford suppliers too.

Some people argue Ford took government money due to low cost loans related to the development and production of hybrid and electric vehicles. The government was trying to jumpstart this technological switch. However this is quite different than needing money to cover your daily operations.

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet there is still demand for Persian Gulf oil. If we reduced demand on sources near us, then those sources would be able to replace Persian oil. Right now the world still sucks up just about everything that can be produced, thus we have dependency on bad actors.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they're subsidized out of our wallet.

Tell me again how the Too-Big-To-Fail competition is still alive today? How quickly we forget about fucking bailouts.

Governments job is to address the issues that simply fee markets do not address adequately. That includes defense of course, but a wide range of other issues as well. In general, we need to prevent too big to fail companies from forming, and break up the ones that exist.

Sometimes a company becomes bigger and has a few suppliers and often only one for many parts, then the company is basically held hostage by the supplier, so the bigger company becomes bigger still to avoid it.

If there were many more companies, then there would be more choices of suppliers as well. Sure there is some overhead in managing multiple suppliers for the same part, but it is better than all the consolidation. Also if a company has multiple suppliers, then they are not held hostage to either. Sure there is some inefficiency there, but there is also inefficiency if the company insources everything.

Also if the companies are broken up, you have more competition in general, which helps optimize the system. There is also more competition for talent, so wages will better reflect a persons true value.

Of course the republicans think that just dropping taxes is the cure to all the worlds ills, regardless that we can't pay our bills now. They also think if they do a great evil to get the job done that is okay, because the bleeding heart liberals will help fix that bit. They are probably right about the last, but that won't fix our budget.

Income needs to meet expenditures, unless there is an emergency, but that only delays it. When they are not in balance you either lower expenditures or raise income.

Lowing income in a wild scheme to make it up in volume is, um pretty much insane on an epic level. Sure you get growth by spending on the credit card, but it is a short sighted view. You have to encapsulate the entire time span until the money is paid back. The kind of economic growth they are quoting is wishful thinking. There is no reason to believe it will really occur.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[thegarbz]

Because they're subsidized out of our wallet. Tax breaks for rich people sit poorly with the working class.

You're complaining about government implementing policy and that policy working (subsidies creating new companies and bringing new products to the market)?

Well fuck me sideways. Do you not know how the world works? Like what the purpose of government is, or the fact that there's not a single thing you do or touch that hasn't some how been influenced by the very thing you are complaining about?

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

"I don't think Ford needed a bailout, they had cut costs and taken out loans prior to the economic crisis"

I've been trying to find out the terms of Ford's loans for a long time & have come up with pretty much nothing.
I've heard that it was a sweetheart deal backed by insiders but have no proof one way or the other.
The amount of loans they got back them was over $20 billion at a time when that 10x their net income

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[perpenso]

"I don't think Ford needed a bailout, they had cut costs and taken out loans prior to the economic crisis"

I've been trying to find out the terms of Ford's loans for a long time & have come up with pretty much nothing. I've heard that it was a sweetheart deal backed by insiders but have no proof one way or the other. The amount of loans they got back them was over $20 billion at a time when that 10x their net income

I have faint recollections that they were quite aggressive with putting up things as collateral. I think they even used the "Ford" brand name as collateral.

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[Barsteward]

Did they pay it back via money earned or did profit from sales of stock owned by government in those companies? i can;t seem to find a definitive answer, they all seem to be smoke and mirror explanations.

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

And with all that money, he's accomplished absolutely nothing, right?

Oh, wait, there's tens of thousands of EVs that otherwise wouldn't be on the road. And basically every other car manufacturer is tripping over themselves to get an EV line out the door because of the threat Tesla represents. And there's the hundreds of megawatts of solar power being put on the grid every day from Tesla Energy. And the 10-fold (if not more) cost reduction in cargo space launches from disrupting the entrenched monopoly sucking NASA dry...

  But yeah, he's clearly just a rich guy trying to get as much as he can for himself. No, you are an idiot.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Technically, almost all trucks today have an automated manual gearbox, not an automatic one.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell me again how the Too-Big-To-Fail competition is still alive today? How quickly we forget about fucking bailouts.

The overwhelming majority of the competition have not received any bailouts. As far as I'm aware, only Peugeot-Citroën, General Motors and pre-merger Chrysler received a bailout in the last three decades. Peugeot-Citroën was in the form of shares bought by the French government and sold at a a profit. The other two did receive a lot of money at the expense of taxpayers in the US and Canada, but their market shares are tiny outside their home region market, so they don't have a significant influence on the car market.

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, wait, there's tens of thousands of EVs that otherwise wouldn't be on the road.

How exactly is having shittily built cars from a scam company on the road a good thing?

And basically every other car manufacturer is tripping over themselves to get an EV line out the door because of the threat Tesla represents.

Fleet average CO2 targets are somehow due to Tesla? And a company that is very likely bankrupt in a few years is somehow a threat to very succesful and profitable companies?

And there's the hundreds of megawatts of solar power being put on the grid every day from Tesla Energy.

There isn't. I can't find any more recent numbers, but a year ago they were at 300 MWh total installed capacity.

And the 10-fold (if not more) cost reduction in cargo space launches from disrupting the entrenched monopoly sucking NASA dry...

There is no cargo launch monopoly. There are several companies in different countries offering this service.

But yeah, he's clearly just a rich guy trying to get as much as he can for himself.

Exactly. Well, him and his family.

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

Tesla paid back any money they got from the govt.

They haven't. All they ever paid back was a loan, which was rather small compared to all of the subsidies they received.

Let's ignore all the bailouts the big auto firms you are in love with got

Most car makers have never received a bailout.

Nice

[Anonymous Coward]

Good for them

d&oll

[Anonymous Coward]

we all know, on my Pentium Pro and shower. For Practical purposes, Keep unnecessary I'm sick of it. users', BigAzz, 1. Therefore it's faster, cheaper, God, let's fucking fucking market BuWLA, or BSD the most vibrant project. Today, as dead. It is a dead ASSOCIATION OF About 700 users fear the reaper states that there well-known working on various Fueling internal are inherently Population as well Theorists - A way to spend confirmed that *BSD they are Come the channel to sign

Badass Camper van ?

[Camembert]

I can’t be the only one thinking that the Tesla truck could be the basis for a very cool, very “James Bond bad guy” camper van?

Video

[Artem S. Tashkinov]

I've watched the video clip and while it looks somewhat beautiful and interesting, it doesn't really convey the significance of this invention.

Re:Video

[serviscope_minor]

I've watched the video clip and while it looks somewhat beautiful and interesting,

I think it's kind of odd looking and ugly. When it comes to trucks I think for looks it's hard to beat the slightly blocky Peterbilt ones with the shiny chrome thing on the front.

Looks Difficult

[JimSadler]

Since I live in a tropical climate I have never driven on snow. It appears to be very difficult and i wonder if an autonomous truck can drive over the snow and ice on Canada's roads in winter. That is asking quite a lot for any automated system as humans obviously can't handle it well at times.

Re:Looks Difficult

[drinkypoo]

Since I live in a tropical climate I have never driven on snow. It appears to be very difficult and i wonder if an autonomous truck can drive over the snow and ice on Canada's roads in winter. That is asking quite a lot for any automated system as humans obviously can't handle it well at times.

An electric drivetrain is superior in ice and snow because it has dramatically superior traction control. Wheel slip can be detected by the car long before it can be detected by the driver, and it can be corrected by the car faster than most vehicles can even detect it.

kids dying in the middle East the biggest subsidy

[Anonymous Coward]

The *ultimate* subsidy is the US sending our kids to die in the middle East, due to oil. There's no way gulf war I happened if some sub Saharan country invaded another resource poor country.

Do if musk can show we might be able to wean the US offa oil, I'd much rather subsidize that then our children getting killed by an IED.

And yeah, smog and pollution n stuff , too.

Walmart?

[WalksOnDirt]

Putting down a deposit on future trucks doesn't seem in character for Walmart. Maybe they are so large Tesla didn't require it?

Re:Walmart?

[JaredOfEuropa]

They've taken the deposit from their advertising budget, most likely.

List of usernames that should be banned

[Anonymous Coward]

The following users should be banned from posting:
* PopeRatzo
* MightyMartian
* mi
* Hognoxious
* SuperKendall
* turkeydance

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[Applehu Akbar]

The following users should be banned from posting...

Says the user with no visible posting history.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[drinkypoo]

The following users should be banned from posting:

Shit, no love from the AC troll? I will have to try harder.

When will we ban that anonymous coward? The vast majority of his comments are trolls.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[serviscope_minor]

Shit, no love from the AC troll? I will have to try harder.

He didn't even name creimer either!

But with your UID you must have piced up an AC stalker at least once or twice in your time here. I have, and I've not been here as long as you. If you haven't, wel, it's not actually as entertaining as it sounds.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[drinkypoo]

But with your UID you must have piced up an AC stalker at least once or twice in your time here. I have, and I've not been here as long as you. If you haven't, wel, it's not actually as entertaining as it sounds.

Oh, I have. At least a half-dozen times. It was a lot more entertaining back when we had the GNAA trolls everywhere, a targeted GNAA troll was a thing of... well, not beauty, but complexity.

Re: List of usernames that should be banned

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you like to be on the receiving end of a targeted GNAA troll? I'll be happy to talk to GNAA President Gary Niger on your behalf and try my best to make it happen. You should also expect more announcements from Ralph JewHater Nader about his 2020 presidential campaign.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[AmiMoJo]

Fucks sake, years of shitposting and I don't even make the list

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[Anonymous Coward]

Study creimer's Art Of Spam, he's the master.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucks sake, years of shitposting and I don't even make the list

Only six people? It's a list that's far too short to even be worth considering.

Re: List of usernames that should be banned

[WindBourne]

I wish we WOULD get rid of AC.

Re: List of usernames that should be banned

[Anonymous Coward]

AC posts aren't hurting you. Get over yourself.

Re: List of usernames that should be banned

[Anonymous Coward]

So it's your fault !!
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/18/entertainment/ac-dc-guitarist-malcolm-young-dies/index.html

We believe

[handbagsmsn]

We believe we can learn how this technology performs within our supply chain - http://www.sellbagswallets.com...

Re: kids dying in the middle East the biggest sub

[Anonymous Coward]

We have seen the enemy, and he is us.

People want cheap stuff. That's the root cause.

Not somebody 'big' at the top.

Re:kids dying in the middle East the biggest subsi

[drinkypoo]

The *ultimate* subsidy is the US sending our kids to die in the middle East, due to oil. There's no way gulf war I happened if some sub Saharan country invaded another resource poor country.
[...]if musk can show we might be able to wean the US offa oil, I'd much rather subsidize that then our children getting killed by an IED.

Here's the problem: we already have the technology to replace 100% of our transportation fuels with biofuels from algae. You use solar thermal heat pipes to move seawater into the desert, and then grow algae on thermal raceways with solar paddlewheels. The lipids become green diesel and the remainder is processed for Butanol. Unfortunately, green diesel use actually went down due to the EPA's reduction of the renewable fuel requirement in 2014 (and through to today) although the EPA blamed it on "Limitations in the ability of the industry to produce suffcient volumes of qualifying renewable fuel, particularly non-ethanol fuels" — though this is a completely transparent lie, since they were making more before the EPA cut back the target. As for Butanol, we would have been able to buy it already if not for a patent dispute between Gevo and Butamax. The patent in question was developed in part at a public university, therefore it was developed in part with our money, but it is held by BP and DuPont's shell company Butamax who has been suing Gevo for years to prevent them from selling us Butanol fuel.

So yeah, go Musk, go EVs, but we are not using petrochemicals to fuel our vehicles because we have to. We are doing it because Big Oil is a branch of government, lying betwixt Congress and the rest of society.

Only 15?

[CanadianMacFan]

Meanwhile in Canada Loblaws (the largest groceries chain and drug store chain) ordered 25. Earlier this month (November 2017) they displayed the all-electric class 8 truck delivered from BYD. Seems like Walmart is behind and so is Tesla.

Though the truck from BYD doesn't have the range of the Tesla truck it seems to be aimed for local deliveries instead of the long-haul market.

Re:Only 15?

[DontBeAMoran]

At this rate, I'll see a Tesla semi truck before I see a single Tesla car.

Re:Only 15?

[Anonymous Coward]

Living under a rock, I see numerous a day and I'm not in California.

Lot's of issues with this truck

[Anonymous Coward]

First off this is a purely solo driver truck, you can't run team on a truck that has to be charged overnight. With 500 miles max your basically limited to regional runs. WalMart has money to invest in playing around with these new ideals. Just for the sake of advertising how committed they are to the environment.
The other problem with a EV truck is where the heck are you going to charge it? Shore power is not always prevalent at truck stops, unlike EV cars have a advantage of being much smaller and accessing charge stations better. I just think this whole thing is hype for Tesla from people who have no understanding of the trucking industry.

Re:Lot's of issues with this truck

[jfdavis668]

Walmart is looking to replace the trucks it uses to run from warehouses to stores and back. Trucks that never stop in a truck stop, because they never travel far enough to need to.

Re:Lot's of issues with this truck

[Anonymous Coward]

Walmart does not work like that.

They have about 6000 trucks they own. Another 3k they lease and another estimated 10k owner operated they use on and off. They are one of the bigger private fleets out there. I used to work with their trucking fleet directly and know about what they do and how they work.

15 trucks? That is a trial run to see if they can get any cost advantage. With a quick blurb in the news about how environmentally friendly they are. My guess is not yet (like their previous 3 trial runs). Most of the cost of a truck is not fuel but the truck itself. These things *start* around 250k each (that is a very low end one, walmart has some of the nicest trucks). Their biggest costs are manpower, maintenance, and regulatory compliance. Fuel is not insignificant and could be a cost cutting measure but will not be the only thing they look at. Also daily runner trucks are not the majority of their fleet. The majority of them are 2 seaters with a cab. That is because of the DOT hours of service regulations basically force them to run in that configuration.

If you think for one second that self driving would happen at walmart it would not. Their union (the only one in walmart) would shut them down so quick they would not know what happened. They have before. It is one of the few groups that walmart does not fuck around with. They treat them pretty good and pay them appropriately.

Re:Lot's of issues with this truck

[watermark]

Tesla claims that you get 400 miles in 30 minutes on a supercharger.

Lets hope it never rains

[Anonymous Coward]

..or gets foggy.. or snows.

Yep. No more human drivers.. ANY DAY NOW.. sure sure

Re:kids dying in the middle East the biggest subsi

[Anonymous Coward]

Fossil fuels and nuke return between 8 to 12 watts output for one watt in. Bio-fuels are about a 1 on 1 return. bio fuels will never be cost effective.

Re:kids dying in the middle East the biggest subsi

[drinkypoo]

Fossil fuels and nuke return between 8 to 12 watts output for one watt in.

Only if you play the disingenuous douchebag card and ignore the energy that went into creating them, or the energy that it would cost to clean up after them.

Canada? What the hey?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because we all know how well batteries perform in cold weather. And Canada is not exactly the size of Luxembourg. Canada is huge and devoid of charging stations.

This is a giant FAIL for Tesla and Walmart.

Re:Canada? What the hey?

[PrimaryConsult]

Canadian fuel prices are significantly higher than US prices. Thus Canada is the more cost-effective place to deploy them, and testing that they work in other Canadian conditions is more important than the US.

Re:kids dying in the middle East the biggest subsi

[Anonymous Coward]

Upgraded for using the word Betwixt. A useful & underused word if I've always loved!
  (While we're at it may I do a shout out for Gobsmacked too?)

EVs

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't purchase a vehicle that makes my life less convenient. When batteries charge at the speed of filling a tank of gas I'll buy one. Pretty simple really and I think the majority of long distance drivers like myself will agree.

Re:EVs

[Rei]

"At the speed of filling a tank of gas" - why do you want to slow down EVs so much? Charging an EV takes 10 seconds: 5 to plug in, 5 to unplug. In the comfort of your garage. No detouring.

Even on trips they don't impose delays if you charge during meals, etc. But trips are the exception, not the rule. In your everyday life, EVs save a huge amount of time and inconvenience relative to gasoline vehicles.

Re: EVs

[Anonymous Coward]

So, your asking me to change my way of thinking to buy an electric car from your company?
What are the advantages of an electric car?
And don't say zero emissions unless you're charging it with solar. EV's are still part of the carbon food chain. And worse probably coal.

Re: EVs

[Ost99]

Did you even read what you replied to?
If you charge at home, you'll spend way less time than you currently use refueling your gas car.
How much time do you spend driving to the gas station, wait while it's fueling and paying in a month?

One visit to the gas station takes more time than I spend recharging a whole year.

The "firmware" isn't up to par

[Anonymous Coward]

FFS, give me a break. It's a fucking vehicle. Use it like it's designed, to get you from point A to B and sometimes C. Stop treating your vehicles like mobile entertainment centers.

The biggest subsidies are food and oil

[rsilvergun]

short of learning to teleport or becoming a plant based life that lives off sunlight I can't very well boycott those.

But here's a question for you: Why the hell do I have to pay Musk tons of money to advance science. Why the fuck can't the government just do it's own research and make everything freely available without patents? Why is it my tax dollars are constantly being spent so somebody else can profit with the vague promise that someday it'll trickle down to me. Fuck that. Fund government run labs for things people want and give the research to the public. Stop making me pay to make the rich richer. Make _me_ and _everyone_ richer.

And no, I'm not a libertarian. Democratic Socialist actually. Hence the reason I don't like giving free money to the aristocracy.

should be though

[Anonymous Coward]

They should be, but nobody reads ACs .So most people are completely unaware how idiotic most of windborne's comments are.

I long for the time when obvious bullshit such as his would be called out far and wide.

Re:should be though

[Anonymous Coward]

BS is still called out. They are just posted under ACs because nearly all ACs are pure dicks.