Walmart Says It's Preordered 15 of Tesla' New Semi Trucks (theverge.com)

Soon after Tesla unveiled its new electric Semi Truck and Roadster 2.0, Walmart says it has preordered 15 of the trucks. The Verge notes that the deal was "likely in the works before Tesla unveiled its new truck to the public." From the report: The pilot is planned for the U.S. and Canada. Five of the preordered vehicles will be for Walmart's U.S. business, and 10 will be for its Canadian routes, the company said. Walmart's fleet has about 6,000 trucks. "We have a long history of testing new technology -- including alternative-fuel trucks -- and we are excited to be among the first to pilot this new heavy-duty electric vehicle," the company said in a statement. "We believe we can learn how this technology performs within our supply chain, as well as how it could help us meet some of our long-term sustainability goals, such as lowering emissions." Musk said the truck would enter production in 2019. JB Hunt Transport Services, a 56-year-old company based in Arkansas, also reserved "multiple" new Tesla trucks as well.

Comments

What is the delivery time frame?

[Jzanu]

Walmart has money to burn because they don't actually buy inventory until its sold at the register/cart level. Every other business faces requirement for predictable delivery on capital equipment purchases, largely because it all must be put into use quickly to break even as an option to better than the alternatives.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[BadTuna]

How do you not buy something until after it has been sold?

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[Jzanu]

Suppliers pay Walmart for shelf space for greater retail distribution, they own items on shelves until purchased by customers then Walmart uses EDI systems to purchase from supplier and pocket revenue difference.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[Rei]

Is JB Hunt not a real trucking company?

And your link is wrong.

Also: it's not like every company making preorders ends up on Slashdot. Just to pick a couple more: both the grocery store chains Meijer and Loblaw have placed orders.

Lastly, as for the number of trucks: expecting any given operator to go out and order a thousand of a brand new type of truck for their fleet without doing a trial run first is pure idiocy. The question is what will they think after these trucks have been in their fleets for a couple months. Expect either A) a massive surge in sales that continues into an exponential growth pattern, or B) meagre sales from thereout, only by companies for which their environmental footprint outweighs costs. We probably won't know which way it's going to go until 2020. I fully expect (A), but I'm a Tesla bull and I understand that not everyone is.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[haruchai]

" Now let’s look. At what a real trucking company thinks"
JB Hunt is a real trucking company and they've reserved several Tesla Semis

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[tlhIngan]

Walmart has money to burn because they don't actually buy inventory until its sold at the register/cart level. Every other business faces requirement for predictable delivery on capital equipment purchases, largely because it all must be put into use quickly to break even as an option to better than the alternatives.

That is actually less true today than ever before. Walmart is just one of many companies who adapted to the Amazon effect by becoming real estate moguls and renting out the store shelves.

Basically a lot of stores now do consignment supply - the vendor supplies the goods to the store, and the store only pays the vendor when the good is actually sold, minus a store cut.

You might also see this termed as "Vendor Managed Inventory" - because it's the vendor who is providing the store stock. This is also coupled with contractual store rentals where companies may rent aisles of the store. This is easily seen when going to the electronics department, and looking at video games. You'll notice there are separate aisles of Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony - each of these companies has basically contracted with the store to rent a certain amount of space. The store must provide the rented space, even though it seems silly. You may see racks and racks of empty shelves - or perhaps an entire rack is filled with a single game, 1 copy deep. This is because the rack is rented, and even if there's nothing to fill it, it still belongs to the renter. Employees often shuffle items to fill the racks because empty racks are ugly. Its also why for example there was an empty rack for PS Vita stuff - Sony dictated that rack was for PS Vita, and even though the Vita is dead, the store is obligated to maintain it.

Of course, you see that say, the PC Games section in the same store is non-existent - because that's actually the store's owned rack, so that's whatever games the store deems will sell and justify that rack's presence. Unless a big PC game publisher comes and rents a rack (which does happen, in which case it's filled with that publisher's games) the store's own inventory typically pales in comparison.

You might find the stores are often willing to price match online stores in this case as well - since the vendor is paid whatever the price is minus a store cut, if the store matches the online price, the vendor is paid less.

Note this applies to the big national chain stores. Mom and Pop stores still have to buy their inventory like normal, and rarely do vendors actually request to rent some space

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[bad-badtz-maru]

Walmart doesn't do this, though.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[bad-badtz-maru]

The US trucking industry is dominated by less than 10 companies.

Re:What is the delivery time frame?

[bad-badtz-maru]

Christ, modded to +5 and it's basically an urban legend. Just because walmart does vendor-managed inventory doesn't mean they're consigning product at the store level.

Hate Tesla

[backslashdot]

Why do so many people hate Tesla? For fucks sake they are trying you gotta give them credit for that. Better than sitting around trolling on slashdot. Anytime they do something, out come the haters hoping they fail. You guys are happy with Ford, GM, and I guess Mack trucks? A Mack truck from 1970 is hardly changed from 2017 ..ok they added a cup holder .. nobody has a problem with that?

Re:Hate Tesla

[AmiMoJo]

I have mixed feelings about Tesla.

On the one hand, the technology is cool, the cars are amazing and Musk has done more than any other individual to push electric vehicles forward. I might buy a Model X next year, in fact.

On the other hand, Tesla is selling full self driving as an option ($3000) to be delivered by firmware update at some indeterminate point in the future. They already massively exaggerated what their current Autopilot can do, their current AP2.0/2.5 hardware hasn't even reached feature parity with the old 1.0 hardware, and if you were to start a lease on a new Tesla today there is a good chance you would never actually see FSD before handing the car back.

Re:Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

Hate Tesla? Or Musk? I dunno about hate. I think the fanbois who are trying to hold him us some kind of real life Tony Stark are silly. As far as I know he's just an idea man and doesn't have any real engineering creds. I don't believe he could build his way out of wet paper bag – he hires people to do that for him.

He got lucky wrt getting rich and I'm glad he's putting that money to good use.

I don't think he's winning any brownie points with the way he's dealing with labor issues at the Tesla factory.

Re:Hate Tesla

[EnsilZah]

Don't know about specific people, but they seem to be disrupting a lot of entrenched industries.

Traditional car manufacturers, car dealerships, oil and coal producers and users, automotive manufacturing unions, possible driving jobs in the future, the list goes on.
I'm sure at least some of those industries are happy to spend a few million in lobbying and astroturfing, convincing workers their jobs are at risk, riling up people who think anything having to do with 'renewable energy' is a vast liberal conspiracy to take their tax money and god-given right to breathe petroleum exhaust.

Re:Hate Tesla

[PolygamousRanchKid]

A Mack truck from 1970 is hardly changed from 2017 ..ok they added a cup holder .. nobody has a problem with that?

That's not a cup holder. That is the CD-ROM/DVD tray. You are using it wrong.

Folks hate Tesla because they are jealous that Tesla is achieving so much amazing things.

Re:Hate Tesla

[PolygamousRanchKid]

I don't believe he could build his way out of wet paper bag – he hires people to do that for him.

When Bill Clinton's press secretary Mike McCurry resigned, he commented on the Monica Lewinsky fiasco something like: "You know, sometime very intelligent people do some really dumb things."

The former US President Ronald Reagan was a bit of an idiot . . . but he was smart enough to realize that he was an idiot, and got folks like James Baker and Casper Weinberger to do all the work for him. Musk hiring top talented engineers is the best move for him.

If you want to reach the stars, try standing on the shoulders of giants.

Re:Hate Tesla

[AmiMoJo]

Did I mention that their current hardware doesn't even do basic stuff like auto rain sensing and 360 degree cameras. The Model X is an amazing car in many ways, but also lacks stuff that is standard on cars costing 1/5th as much. The promises of firmware updates that take years to come are not a substitute.

It makes me wonder how many engineers they have working on it when they can't get this basic stuff finished.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Anonymous Coward]

As a Model S owner, I have mixed feelings as well.

The car is incredible. I've driven 80k+ miles since 3/2014 and it drives as good now as on it's first day. No degredation of the battery, acceleration is still like a rocket, and the only things that broke down were a single tail light and something to do with the windshield wiper fluid (maybe the line was clogged). All of which was covered by warranty. Still on the original brake pads. Tires wear out, but so far they're covered by Michelin tire warranty.

On the other hand, they definitely need more software engineers working on the screen apps. There are easy things they should be able to add to the navigation and music apps that I've been waiting literally years for.

They said the focus on the software side is autodrive, but along the way they should at least give us some easy/visible upgrades.

Re:Hate Tesla

[JaredOfEuropa]

doesn't even do basic stuff like auto rain sensing

Seriously? I remember reading somewhere that the Model 3 doesn't have that sensor either, and the windshield wiper control on/near the steering wheel only let you turn it on or off; the speed being controlled via the LCD panel. I couldn't quite believe that they'd leave out such a basic feature... That's gonna be a lot of fun on the highway.

Re:Hate Tesla

[JaredOfEuropa]

They say invention is 10% inspiration and 90% transpiration. The same goes for innovation: 10% is about the ideas themselves, 90% is about implementing them. That doesn't only require engineering, but also someone to direct those engineers, raise capital, make the right strategic decisions, spend the right amount of cash on the right stuff at the right time, hire the right guys, and build a strong executive team with similar capabilities. There's a hell of a lot more to it than luck, or being at the right place at the right time: a good entrepreneur knows what to do when luck presents itself, and there's plenty examples of those that didn't know and consequently fail.

Re:Hate Tesla

[vtcodger]

Seems to me like Tesla's truck is a perfectly reasonable vehicle. At least on paper. It's surely targeted at fleet operators like Trashmart and J B Hunt who will presumably use it on fixed routes with their own charging stations at their depots. If it works out and their bean counters decide that it saves money, they will buy more and expand their charger network. If it doesn't save money or has other serious problems such as problems in snow and ice, they won't buy any more of them.

Note that Tesla's autopilot looks to be far better suited to freeways than random surface streets. It might even work and be safe. I would think that these trucks will be used mostly on freeways so there is the possibility that eventually -- after a few tens of millions of safe miles -- they might be allowed to drop off their driver at the freeway on-ramp and pick up a new driver at the destination off ramp.

Re:Hate Tesla

[AmiMoJo]

They had a rain sensor in the V1 hardware but ditched it for V2. Their plan was to use the cameras instead but their software is really struggling to get existing features to work properly.

It's kind of a joke, isn't it? A 100k car missing really basic features because their software engineers are struggling.

Re:Hate Tesla

[dgatwood]

Did I mention that their current hardware doesn't even do basic stuff like auto rain sensing and 360 degree cameras.

That's not true. At least on the Model X, their current hardware (if you buy the self-driving upgrade) has eight cameras, providing the computer with a full 360-degree camera view. Their current software, however, doesn't expose that to the user.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Kjella]

Well it's refreshing to have a CEO that actually dares to have big, bold, idealistic visions. And by that I don't mean someone like Jobs who'd hype their current product but you'd have no idea where Apple was going 3-5 years down the road. In fact, the stretch goals are so high and so far out he doesn't run the risk of running into the Osborne effect but are more like guiding stars than any actual plan or roadmap.

I mean the marketing pamphlet for SpaceX could have read "Providing cost efficient satellite and ISS launch services through refurbished rockets" if it was run by a bean counter. Instead it's like "We want to build a BFR and colonize Mars", that's the vision. Somehow he's made it a success story to make some impossible goal and then coming up short is expected. Like now it's months of turn-around time to relaunch a "flight proven" rocket, he says lets do it in 24 hours. He's relaunched a rocket once, he says we'll make rockets that launch hundreds of times.

I think in terms of getting a team together and solve the engineering difficulties it's great. Why are we doing this, to shave a few bucks of NASA's budget? Nah. And we're not going to design something that's fundamentally unworkable for the long term goal, maybe we need a stopgap solution but we're stretching for that Formula One pit stop. Few things bring out such smug geek/nerd satisfaction as pushing the boundaries and announcing "They said it was impossible, so we did it".

For the customers though, I'd say Musk's companies are notoriously unreliable company with timelines and grand designs and promises that aren't really grounded in reality. If their current products do what you want them to do, by all means go ahead and buy it. But if you're waiting for something that's on the roadmap don't hold your breath. I got suckered into that Model 3 hype and pre-ordered... and then I started thinking WTF I'm waiting years for a car I know hardly anything about on a schedule I can't control, then I canceled. I decided I'd rather pick from the cars that are on the market when I need it.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Applehu Akbar]

Musk launches real engineering creds month after month from Florida, Texas and California. And yes, people would, it seems, buy a used booster from this man.

Re:Hate Tesla

[drinkypoo]

At least on the Model X, their current hardware (if you buy the self-driving upgrade) has eight cameras, providing the computer with a full 360-degree camera view. Their current software, however, doesn't expose that to the user.

So the hardware can do it, but the software is incapable? Sounds like the ideal car for Apple fans. There are competent developers out of work and Apple's phones suck for the same reason, Apple is hiring lames and is proud.

Re:Hate Tesla

[drinkypoo]

then I started thinking WTF I'm waiting years for a car I know hardly anything about on a schedule I can't control, then I canceled. I decided I'd rather pick from the cars that are on the market when I need it.

You decided that you needed the money back, because otherwise you'd be happy for the chance to purchase one of those cars at the given time. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend it's not an economic decision just to hate on Tesla.

Re:Hate Tesla

[serviscope_minor]

So the hardware can do it, but the software is incapable? Sounds like the ideal car for Apple fans

Or linux users.

https://xkcd.com/644/

Re:Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

The Edison quote is "10% inspiration and 90% perspiration."

There are ideas like the people who figured out how to make CRISPR, and then there are ideas like "let's build electric cars and dig tunnels." One of these is not like the other.

Re:Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

Next you'll be taking credit for those too. Because you had almost as much to do with them as Musk did.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Rei]

At least they finally got around to a proper camper mode. That's another thing that had been waiting years.

How's the update for automatically moving the steering wheel out of your way when you get out working out?

Re:Hate Tesla

[Rei]

Ever priced a repair on any other nearly-6-figures car? As for your links: the first one clearly involves a dented panel replacement (hopefully no frame damage as well), not just a simple paint repair, and the second one is just the guy guessing at what's wrong with a car that he can only see through pictures. It's IMHO a bit concerning that that car has damage on both the right rear *and* the front left. What sort of accident was that car in? Some sort of highway-speed bump-spinout-hit a barrier crash? Not to high G-forces (the airbags didn't go off), so it sounds like two very confined point hits rather than a spread-out crush.

Re:Hate Tesla

[JaredOfEuropa]

Hence the distinction between invention and innovation. One of these is not like the other.

Re:Hate Tesla

[AmiMoJo]

Actually, they lack a nose mounted camera that can see the road right in front of the car. They couldn't do an overhead 360 degree view with their current hardware.

The side cameras are monochrome plus red too, so the image would be in black and white.

Even that would be preferable to nothing though. They could do side and rear view. At the moment all they have is a rear camera view.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Octorian]

Yeah, they seem to focus on software updates that make for good press releases, but don't give a damn at stuff that would only be noticed by everyday drivers.

There are bugs in the whole media player software stack that enrage me every time I drive the car. I don't even know whose ear to yell into about them anymore, because they simply don't care. (And if you mention on forums, you get drowed out by 50 pet feature requests to the point that actual bugs get lost in the noise).

Thankfully, these are really the only actual issues I have with the car. Everything else about it is wonderful, and its kinda hard to go back to an ICE car after driving one.

Re:Hate Tesla

[magzteel]

The former US President Ronald Reagan was a bit of an idiot . . . but he was smart enough to realize that he was an idiot, and got folks like James Baker and Casper Weinberger to do all the work for him.

Pretty standard "conservatives are idiots" line.

He was so stupid that among other things he was head of Screen Actor's Guild, Governor of California, and President of the USA for two terms.

What's on your CV?

Re:Hate Tesla

[Dog-Cow]

It would be a good idea to have your mother fuck your ass with a rusty pickax.

Re:Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

"I don't even know whose ear to yell into about them anymore, because they simply don't care"
Yell at them & Elon on Twitter.

Re:Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

"He was so stupid that among other things he was head of Screen Actor's Guild, Governor of California, and President of the USA for two terms"
None of those automatically make for a highly intelligent person. Anyone who knows how to pander can do it.
Trump is a good case in point

Re:Hate Tesla

[blindseer]

ok they added a cup holder

Well, they had to put something in that space where the ashtray used to be. Getting rid of the ashtray was an improvement, no?

Actually lots has changed since the 1970 Mack truck. They got more fuel efficient, have catalytic converters, electronic controls, and many other improvements that add to safety, comfort, and economy. They still burn diesel fuel, sure, but not the same kind of diesel fuel that they ran on 40 years ago since what we have now burns cleaner. The reason we still burn diesel fuel is because that fuel is cheap, energy dense, liquid at atmospheric pressure and temperatures, and reasonably safe to handle by moderately skilled labor.

I'm fine with today's Mack trucks. They are what makes modern living possible.

Re:Hate Tesla

[blindseer]

None of those automatically make for a highly intelligent person. Anyone who knows how to pander can do it.

Knowing how to pander is itself an aspect of intelligence, and we even have a term to describe this, "social intelligence". Intelligence isn't just understanding mathematics, there are many aspects to intelligence and any kind of intelligence test worth mentioning will test many different aspects of one's intelligence. Excelling in one aspect of intelligence tends to lead to excelling in others but of course if excelling in one meant an equal grasp of the others then we would not be testing for such different aspects of intelligence.

Trump is a good case in point

I suppose he is. He was intelligent enough to manage a campaign against someone who was thought by many as impossible to defeat. He was intelligent enough to understand that it's the electoral college that counts, not the popular vote. I remember complaints of past presidents being "selected, not elected". Every POTUS was selected, not elected, that's just how it works.

Re: Hate Tesla

[blindseer]

Nope. Pandering isn't related to intelligence, it is related to integrity. Any idiot can pander.

Really? Then why didn't Hilary Clinton just "out pander" him? To successfully pander for votes one must be able to calculate what kind of pandering will be successful. Clinton pandered too, she just didn't do as well of a job at it. She wanted to lay many of the troubles of the nation on white Christian heterosexual males and guess what happened? Those white Christian heterosexual males came out to vote and voted for Trump. As did most anyone that fit in only one of the white, Christian, heterosexual, and male boxes.

Sorry, but the biggest loser is still Trump.

Except that he's President and you are not.

As for everything else you claimed, I'll need some sources on that or it didn't happen.

Re: Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

She wanted to lay many of the troubles of the nation on white Christian heterosexual males and guess what happened? Those white Christian heterosexual males came out to vote and voted for Trump. As did most anyone that fit in only one of the white, Christian, heterosexual, and male boxes.

That didn't work so well in the recent elections in Virginia where the candidates of the deplorables got their butts kicked by just about every diversity imaginable.
The self-described "Chief Homophobe of Virginia" who'd held his seat since 1992 lost to a transgender journalist who's the lead singer in a death metal band.

Re: Hate Tesla

[blindseer]

The self-described "Chief Homophobe of Virginia" who'd held his seat since 1992 lost to a transgender journalist who's the lead singer in a death metal band.

Was this person also named Trump? I didn't follow the race but I assume not. Is Virginia the USA? It's in the USA but it's not the totality of the USA. I fail to see how this is relevant to the social intelligence of our current POTUS.

A quick Google search tells me that Virginia has a higher proportion of non-white and non-Christian people than the totality of the USA. I didn't bother to look for their sexual preferences or their preferences for death metal music. Demographic differences quite likely played a part in the differing outcome. Also, the outcome likely differed on being that one of the choices weren't named Clinton. Maybe there were candidates named Clinton, I didn't look that up either.

Maybe this transgender journalist pandered better. Maybe he/she/ze/it/they was, perhaps, just more qualified and it had nothing to do with pandering. This may actually apply to Trump too. Perhaps voters did not want someone that was a US Senator, Secretary of State, or whatever else Hilary Clinton did or claimed to have done.

Re: Hate Tesla

[Barsteward]

if she was a man and said all the same things, then she'd probably have trounced Trump more convincingly. There is still too much "she's a woman and should be seen and not heard" christian voters out there.

Re:Hate Tesla

[Barsteward]

absolute bollox. we're cheering him on, even more now as it will get up Trumps' nose. The only problem I've got with the car, is that they look too big on UK roads

Re:Hate Tesla

[Barsteward]

"Hell, you can even weld two halves of two salvage vehicles together to make one that works. That's called ownership. " thats sounds more like a accident waiting to happen and "rip off the customer" territory. Knowledge is the thing, if you don;t know what you are doing with ICE, you won't be able to repair it either. You might want to watch this on how to modify a Tesla https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:Hate Tesla

[drinkypoo]

The repair costs exceed repair costs of Rolls Royce cars. This confirms my suspicion of Tesla cars being overpriced ($3000 authorized quote for a $300 fix at a local shop).

A dented panel is not a $300 fix. Replacing the panel will be billed out at MSRP + labor, and it also has to be painted to match. Repairing the panel will be billed out as materials + labor, and it requires a spot repair which is both a color match and a blend, or that the full panel be sprayed. Either way you're looking at $1000+ for the job to be done correctly by someone who is competent.

You clearly have no idea what spot repairs cost.

Re: Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

" Maybe he/she/ze/it/they was, perhaps, just more qualified and it had nothing to do with pandering. This may actually apply to Trump too.
Perhaps voters did not want someone that was a US Senator, Secretary of State, or whatever else Hilary Clinton did or claimed to have done"

So they rejected Mitt Romney but elected Trump??
"Claimed to have done"??? What did Clinton "claim" that isn't the case?

Re:Hate Tesla

[Talderas]

Your assessment hit it right on the head. Long haul transport companies aren't looking at them because of the mileage range and what depots they may operate. If Pilot Flying J or Love's were to install chargers from which semis could charge you would see long haul route providers take a look at Tesla. My guess is that they are going to watch he success of the Tesla semi and if it looks like Tesla might provide something which can incorporate a sleeper cab then they'll probably announce plans to provide such infrastructure and in turn you'll see other semi fleet operators look to electric semis.

If the electric semis are truly $0.25 cheaper to operate per mile than diesel then the transport companies will look at it. A 30 minute charge time is doubly beneficial because it will force their drivers to take breaks while at the truck stop.

Not getting the naysayers

[nospam007]

I just don't get why everybody seems to think trucks can only be used for +1000 miles runs.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Jzanu]

Large capacity trucks require large service areas with repeating need up to capacity or smaller modes are cheaper. Distribution centers and cross-docking stations are required before trucks can be loaded for deliveries, and the path for delivery is managed carefully to coordinate with loading. Using LTL wastes space and is only effective in narrow circumstances for perishable goods, etc. Better then to use vans and cars for delivery in short trips to minimize total costs.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad reality isn't on your side and trucks are used mostly for much shorter distances than 1000 miles.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[geekmux]

Learn to read better. The economic conditions required for large tractor trailer style trucks to be the best options must be satisfied or there are cheaper options.

Speaking of reading, the Tesla post from yesterday stated that 80% of US truck routes are 250 miles or less. That is well within the range of the Tesla solution, which was probably a justification to build the damn thing. Today, there are over 130 million trucks registered for commercial use in the US (not including personal trucks which are considered SUVs by DOT).

They can be used but it is not the most efficient cost effective option, and in business controllable costs must be minimized or you will not last long.

Mega-corps are becoming a rather dominant force in business, and those mega-corps build mega-stores. The kind of stores that justify larger truck haulers. When you provide an all-electric option with a million-mile warranty, that tends to be one hell of a justification for those "business controllable costs."

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[JaredOfEuropa]

Any trucker here able to shed light on what a typical long haul drive looks like? No sane person drives 800 miles in one go; one needs to rest every now and then, eat, etc. I imagine it's no different for truckers, in fact there's rules. EU rules say a trucker can drive at most 9 hours a day and must take 45 minutes of rest after 4.5 hours of driving (or take 2 breaks with one at least 30 minutes). That's long enough to fully recharge the truck, provided there's a supercharger station. So it seems to be that this truck will work just fine for long hauls, at least in Europe.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Without anything to back up your claims other than "because I said so" your claims are worthless too.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Shorter distance means also that only one is done and truck goes to sleep/recharge or goes on to do another one? I would imagine this can make a difference.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[drinkypoo]

The USA doesn't have mandatory rest breaks, although we do have maximum allowable hours. We also have several states larger than the vast majority of countries in Europe.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[stabiesoft]

In the US some drivers work in teams (hubby & wife) to extend driving times for time sensitive loads. If it is very critical they may even replace the team with a new team so the truck is running continuously.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Registered Coward v2]

Large capacity trucks require large service areas with repeating need up to capacity or smaller modes are cheaper. Distribution centers and cross-docking stations are required before trucks can be loaded for deliveries, and the path for delivery is managed carefully to coordinate with loading. Using LTL wastes space and is only effective in narrow circumstances for perishable goods, etc. Better then to use vans and cars for delivery in short trips to minimize total costs.

Drayage is one area they would be useful; as JB Hunt points out, especially for containers on regular routes. Charging stations can be setup at endpoints for trips beyond the trucks capacity, no idling trucks emitting pollutants while they wait for their load, and if the port has space you could even leave the trucks at the port for charging and shuttle drivers to the trucks lessening the need to build charging stations elsewhere.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[starblazer]

um, yes we do.

https://keeptruckin.com/blog/30-minute-break-rule/... JJ Keller HOS FAQ... (easier to read than the FMCSA rules)

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[hey!]

I thought the whole point that these trucks are significantly cheaper per mile to operate -- 22% less per mile, according to Tesla's predictions.

If Tesla can actually deliver (and tha'ts a big if!) on a truck that is that much cheaper to run, the economics are a straightforward NPV calculation over the projected lifetime of the truck against the purchase price. And as usual as an individual investor your investment decisions depend on a lot of other things, like cash on hand and opportunity costs.

There are some areas where a truck like this, if it doesn't cost too much more than diesel, is a no brainer. A lot of the goods that come into the port of Los Angeles are trucked to warehouses surrounding LA, and then trucked to stores throughout the area. Round trips are easily within the promised range.

There are also routes in which the promised torque will make a significant reduction in transit time, say from Sacramento to Reno - about 130 miles each way over the Sierra Mountains over Route 80, which boasts a 30 mile stretch with a 3-6% grade.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[Jzanu]

The issue of truck size applies regardless of engine, that is the point the musk bots continually miss here. There are more factors involved with loading a truck and operating it on a route for effective delivery. A van is best with any engine over short distances with perishable loads so that it can run more often to reduce spoilage, etc.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[drinkypoo]

Better then to use vans and cars for delivery in short trips to minimize total costs.

That may have been true before palletization, but since loads are on pallets, you need at least box trucks in the mix. You can't drive a fork lift into a van, nor can you reasonably use a pallet jack, so you can only load maximum two pallets onto it.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[bad-badtz-maru]

It's 450 miles per day in the US.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[bad-badtz-maru]

Why are you intermingling the tractor with the trailer? Since you seem to be familiar with the shipping industry, you know that the tractor can pull smaller trailers such as those used for LTL. In the US, the use of LTL freight over TL has increased year over year for many years now. Some of the largest US freight carriers are primarily LTL (Fedex Freight, for example).

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[bad-badtz-maru]

The store's vendors almost always go into a distribution center first, so the size of the store doesn't really matter, and large distribution centers aren't new. The actual industry trend is towards more frequent, smaller shipments.

Re:Not getting the naysayers

[bad-badtz-maru]

I'm not sure if you are US-based, but essentially all grocery distribution in the US is done with normal refrigerated tractor trailers. Even restaurants are serviced by tractor trailers, frequently with using a smaller 28' trailer. Box trucks are used only for specialty goods like produce and dairy.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[geekmux]

Because they're subsidized out of our wallet.

Tell me again how the Too-Big-To-Fail competition is still alive today? How quickly we forget about fucking bailouts. This excuse is growing old and tiresome. You may boycott Tesla, but are a shitload of subsidized industries which you probably continue to support every day by buying their products. Start putting your wallet where your mouth is.

Tax breaks for rich people sit poorly with the working class.

Not having "gasoline" in your budget and emissions pollution your lungs are breaks Musk is trying to deliver to you and the rest of the planet, along with breaks in your electric costs (solar), and in other tax-funded programs (NASA). By comparison, at least there seems to be a return on my "subsidized" investment.

Badass Camper van ?

[Camembert]

I can’t be the only one thinking that the Tesla truck could be the basis for a very cool, very “James Bond bad guy” camper van?

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

Because they're subsidized out of our wallet.

Tell me again how the Too-Big-To-Fail competition is still alive today? How quickly we forget about fucking bailouts. This excuse is growing old and tiresome. You may boycott Tesla, but are a shitload of subsidized industries which you probably continue to support every day by buying their products. Start putting your wallet where your mouth is.

I'm not sure what your point is. But maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet. But on the topic of subsidies, food, or really farms and farmers are subsidized up the wazoo. I don't like that either, but I don't have a lot of choice about buying food. I'm not really inclined to go back to subsistence farming to eat.

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is isn't really helpful. Maybe telling them to vote. To vote differently than they've been voting might be more useful. And probably just as futile.,

Video

[Artem S. Tashkinov]

I've watched the video clip and while it looks somewhat beautiful and interesting, it doesn't really convey the significance of this invention.

Re:Video

[serviscope_minor]

I've watched the video clip and while it looks somewhat beautiful and interesting,

I think it's kind of odd looking and ugly. When it comes to trucks I think for looks it's hard to beat the slightly blocky Peterbilt ones with the shiny chrome thing on the front.

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[darthsilun]

Tesla paid back any money they got from the govt. Letâ(TM)s ignore all the bailouts the big auto firms you are in love with got.

Also all paid back, IIRC.

we need to wean ourselves off oil unless you like funding ISIS.

In 2016, 82% of our oil imports came from non-Persian Gulf countries. Somehow buying Canadian tar sand crude doesn't feel like funding ISIS.

Also if our auto companies fail I hope you like foreign cars.

I do like foreign cars. There's nothing wrong with that. I own Toyotas. The next car I buy will probably be an Audi. When American makers start making a car I want – including quality – at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll consider them again. When I was growing up my family owned a lot of GMs, mostly Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs. My first car was an Oldsmobile. I still haven't gotten over GM's destruction of that brand.

Re: But who will drive them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone who loves torque, speed and reliable brakes.

Looks Difficult

[JimSadler]

Since I live in a tropical climate I have never driven on snow. It appears to be very difficult and i wonder if an autonomous truck can drive over the snow and ice on Canada's roads in winter. That is asking quite a lot for any automated system as humans obviously can't handle it well at times.

Re:Looks Difficult

[drinkypoo]

Since I live in a tropical climate I have never driven on snow. It appears to be very difficult and i wonder if an autonomous truck can drive over the snow and ice on Canada's roads in winter. That is asking quite a lot for any automated system as humans obviously can't handle it well at times.

An electric drivetrain is superior in ice and snow because it has dramatically superior traction control. Wheel slip can be detected by the car long before it can be detected by the driver, and it can be corrected by the car faster than most vehicles can even detect it.

kids dying in the middle East the biggest subsidy

[Anonymous Coward]

The *ultimate* subsidy is the US sending our kids to die in the middle East, due to oil. There's no way gulf war I happened if some sub Saharan country invaded another resource poor country.

Do if musk can show we might be able to wean the US offa oil, I'd much rather subsidize that then our children getting killed by an IED.

And yeah, smog and pollution n stuff , too.

Walmart?

[WalksOnDirt]

Putting down a deposit on future trucks doesn't seem in character for Walmart. Maybe they are so large Tesla didn't require it?

Re:Walmart?

[JaredOfEuropa]

They've taken the deposit from their advertising budget, most likely.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[Applehu Akbar]

The following users should be banned from posting...

Says the user with no visible posting history.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[drinkypoo]

The following users should be banned from posting:

Shit, no love from the AC troll? I will have to try harder.

When will we ban that anonymous coward? The vast majority of his comments are trolls.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[serviscope_minor]

Shit, no love from the AC troll? I will have to try harder.

He didn't even name creimer either!

But with your UID you must have piced up an AC stalker at least once or twice in your time here. I have, and I've not been here as long as you. If you haven't, wel, it's not actually as entertaining as it sounds.

Re:kids dying in the middle East the biggest subsi

[drinkypoo]

The *ultimate* subsidy is the US sending our kids to die in the middle East, due to oil. There's no way gulf war I happened if some sub Saharan country invaded another resource poor country.
[...]if musk can show we might be able to wean the US offa oil, I'd much rather subsidize that then our children getting killed by an IED.

Here's the problem: we already have the technology to replace 100% of our transportation fuels with biofuels from algae. You use solar thermal heat pipes to move seawater into the desert, and then grow algae on thermal raceways with solar paddlewheels. The lipids become green diesel and the remainder is processed for Butanol. Unfortunately, green diesel use actually went down due to the EPA's reduction of the renewable fuel requirement in 2014 (and through to today) although the EPA blamed it on "Limitations in the ability of the industry to produce suffcient volumes of qualifying renewable fuel, particularly non-ethanol fuels" — though this is a completely transparent lie, since they were making more before the EPA cut back the target. As for Butanol, we would have been able to buy it already if not for a patent dispute between Gevo and Butamax. The patent in question was developed in part at a public university, therefore it was developed in part with our money, but it is held by BP and DuPont's shell company Butamax who has been suing Gevo for years to prevent them from selling us Butanol fuel.

So yeah, go Musk, go EVs, but we are not using petrochemicals to fuel our vehicles because we have to. We are doing it because Big Oil is a branch of government, lying betwixt Congress and the rest of society.

Only 15?

[CanadianMacFan]

Meanwhile in Canada Loblaws (the largest groceries chain and drug store chain) ordered 25. Earlier this month (November 2017) they displayed the all-electric class 8 truck delivered from BYD. Seems like Walmart is behind and so is Tesla.

Though the truck from BYD doesn't have the range of the Tesla truck it seems to be aimed for local deliveries instead of the long-haul market.

Re:Only 15?

[DontBeAMoran]

At this rate, I'll see a Tesla semi truck before I see a single Tesla car.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[drinkypoo]

But with your UID you must have piced up an AC stalker at least once or twice in your time here. I have, and I've not been here as long as you. If you haven't, wel, it's not actually as entertaining as it sounds.

Oh, I have. At least a half-dozen times. It was a lot more entertaining back when we had the GNAA trolls everywhere, a targeted GNAA troll was a thing of... well, not beauty, but complexity.

Re:List of usernames that should be banned

[AmiMoJo]

Fucks sake, years of shitposting and I don't even make the list

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[perpenso]

Tell me again how the Too-Big-To-Fail competition is still alive today?

I don't think Ford needed a bailout, they had cut costs and taken out loans prior to the economic crisis. They supported the bailout legislation because they feared GM and Chrysler's failure could affect Ford suppliers too.

Some people argue Ford took government money due to low cost loans related to the development and production of hybrid and electric vehicles. The government was trying to jumpstart this technological switch. However this is quite different than needing money to cover your daily operations.

Re:Lot's of issues with this truck

[jfdavis668]

Walmart is looking to replace the trucks it uses to run from warehouses to stores and back. Trucks that never stop in a truck stop, because they never travel far enough to need to.

Re:EVs

[Rei]

"At the speed of filling a tank of gas" - why do you want to slow down EVs so much? Charging an EV takes 10 seconds: 5 to plug in, 5 to unplug. In the comfort of your garage. No detouring.

Even on trips they don't impose delays if you charge during meals, etc. But trips are the exception, not the rule. In your everyday life, EVs save a huge amount of time and inconvenience relative to gasoline vehicles.

Re:Lot's of issues with this truck

[watermark]

Tesla claims that you get 400 miles in 30 minutes on a supercharger.

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[thegarbz]

Because they're subsidized out of our wallet. Tax breaks for rich people sit poorly with the working class.

You're complaining about government implementing policy and that policy working (subsidies creating new companies and bringing new products to the market)?

Well fuck me sideways. Do you not know how the world works? Like what the purpose of government is, or the fact that there's not a single thing you do or touch that hasn't some how been influenced by the very thing you are complaining about?

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[haruchai]

"I don't think Ford needed a bailout, they had cut costs and taken out loans prior to the economic crisis"

I've been trying to find out the terms of Ford's loans for a long time & have come up with pretty much nothing.
I've heard that it was a sweetheart deal backed by insiders but have no proof one way or the other.
The amount of loans they got back them was over $20 billion at a time when that 10x their net income

Re:Why Hate Tesla

[perpenso]

"I don't think Ford needed a bailout, they had cut costs and taken out loans prior to the economic crisis"

I've been trying to find out the terms of Ford's loans for a long time & have come up with pretty much nothing. I've heard that it was a sweetheart deal backed by insiders but have no proof one way or the other. The amount of loans they got back them was over $20 billion at a time when that 10x their net income

I have faint recollections that they were quite aggressive with putting up things as collateral. I think they even used the "Ford" brand name as collateral.

Re: EVs

[Ost99]

Did you even read what you replied to?
If you charge at home, you'll spend way less time than you currently use refueling your gas car.
How much time do you spend driving to the gas station, wait while it's fueling and paying in a month?

One visit to the gas station takes more time than I spend recharging a whole year.

The biggest subsidies are food and oil

[rsilvergun]

short of learning to teleport or becoming a plant based life that lives off sunlight I can't very well boycott those.

But here's a question for you: Why the hell do I have to pay Musk tons of money to advance science. Why the fuck can't the government just do it's own research and make everything freely available without patents? Why is it my tax dollars are constantly being spent so somebody else can profit with the vague promise that someday it'll trickle down to me. Fuck that. Fund government run labs for things people want and give the research to the public. Stop making me pay to make the rich richer. Make _me_ and _everyone_ richer.

And no, I'm not a libertarian. Democratic Socialist actually. Hence the reason I don't like giving free money to the aristocracy.

Re:Canada? What the hey?

[PrimaryConsult]

Canadian fuel prices are significantly higher than US prices. Thus Canada is the more cost-effective place to deploy them, and testing that they work in other Canadian conditions is more important than the US.

Re: List of usernames that should be banned

[WindBourne]

I wish we WOULD get rid of AC.

Re: Why Hate Tesla

[Barsteward]

Did they pay it back via money earned or did profit from sales of stock owned by government in those companies? i can;t seem to find a definitive answer, they all seem to be smoke and mirror explanations.