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Cringely: Amazon Is Starting To Act Like 'Bad Microsoft' (cringely.com)

An anonymous reader quotes Cringely.com: My last column was about the recent tipping point signifying that cloud computing is guaranteed to replace personal computing over the next three years. This column is about the slugfest to determine what company's public cloud is most likely to prevail. I reckon it is Amazon's and I'll go further to claim that Amazon will shortly be the new Microsoft. What I mean by The New Microsoft is that Amazon is starting to act a lot like the old Microsoft of the 1990s. You remember -- the Bad Microsoft...

Tech companies behave this way because most employees are young and haven't worked anywhere else and because the behavior reflects the character of the founder. If the boss tells you to beat up customers and partners and it's your first job out of college, then you beat up customers and partners because that's the only world you know. At Microsoft this approach was driven by Bill Gates's belief that dominance could be lost in a single product cycle leaving no room for playing nice. At Amazon, Jeff Bezos is a believer in moving fast, making quick decisions and never looking back. The market has long rewarded this audacity so Amazon will continue to play hard until -- like Microsoft in the 90s -- they are punished for it.

Cringely points out most startups are already usings AWS -- and so are all 17 US intelligence agencies ("taking 350,000 PCs out of places like the CIA.")

Bonus link: 17 years ago Cringely answered questions from Slashdot readers.

24 of 96 comments (clear)

  1. Bad Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft is still as bad as they have ever been, they've just donned a new dress and decided to be a bit smarter about it. Amazon otoh, might become "worse Microsoft".

    1. Re:Bad Microsoft? by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Informative

      Any major company is getting worse and worse these days, the world is really going the Max Headroom way.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Bad Microsoft? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Microsoft is still as bad as they have ever been

      Microsoft was bad because they abused their dominance. Today, more people run Android than Windows, and Microsoft's dominance is fading. They may still be evil at heart, but they have less leverage to cause harm.

      Comparing Amazon to the old Microsoft is silly. Cloud services are not like OSes and office suites. If Amazon fails to provide good service at a fair price, their customers can go elsewhere without much trouble.

    3. Re:Bad Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      rubbish, AWS is a massive proprietary lock in since the mainframe. You can't take your Lamda function with you, you are re-writing your application. You spend north of a million a month with AWS and they aren't going to help you, they have you by the short and curlies, good luck getting off it.

    4. Re:Bad Microsoft? by DaHat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If Amazon fails to provide good service at a fair price, their customers can go elsewhere without much trouble.

      Can... but at what cost? Back in the days of Microsoft's dominance, companies could pick up and leave Windows... porting all of their software to *some random platform*, and paying oodles to their vendors to do the same.

      How likely is that?

      The dirty little secret of many cloud services is they are sticky... deliberately so.

      You could port the custom _____ system your company made targeting AWS to Azure or something else... however unless the system was architected deliberately from the beginning with the idea of portability (which most cloud services are not).

      Even if the platform is easy to re-target, the underlying data may not be.

      I've been involved in projects where it was known up front that once customers have a few petabytes in one particular cloud, they were less incentivized to move.

    5. Re:Bad Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      rubbish, AWS is a massive proprietary lock in since the mainframe. You can't take your Lamda function with you, you are re-writing your application. You spend north of a million a month with AWS and they aren't going to help you, they have you by the short and curlies, good luck getting off it.

      This is largely right. The irony is that the technologies behind this have been developed 100% by FOSS developers, however they just lead to their users being completely controlled by Amazon. Similar things happen with PostgreSQL. At small scale it's easy to migrate in and out of Amazon. At large scale you will find that RedShift will often be the solution that's selected and moving back to a PostgreSQL solution will get to be really difficult. There is no chance Amazon will every contribute back their changes.

      It's a perfect example of the risks of using unprotected licenses like the GPLv2 which don't make cloud services share their code. Since seeing this I always choose the AGPL or AGPLv3.

    6. Re:Bad Microsoft? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Microsoft is still as bad as they have ever been

      Microsoft was bad because they abused their dominance.

      No, Microsoft was harmful because they abused their dominance. We will never know why they went so bad so quickly, unless it is the influence of Bill Gates himself as is usually presumed.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Bad Microsoft? by DaHat · · Score: 2

      Great... if you targeted Kubernetes on day one. Oh you didn't? Because your software was built and working more than three years ago? or because you didn't take those things into consideration so early on? Darn.

      It's still not impossible... just good luck to you.

      This comic often comes to mind in such cases: https://dzone.com/articles/ent...

      I've been part of a team which ported a legacy system, originally running on a single machine, then a cluster at a co-location site, to finally fully being in AWS... it was an amazing amount of work. Had it been known what platform options would exist years in the future... choices would have been different, though at the time they were focused on building a viable product, and not making sure they could hop infrastructure to infrastructure as the winds changed.

  2. Hey Cringely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    All of the Five (Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook) are busy acting like the '90s Microsoft. That's because that's how the big money is made, right? Big money means big earnings, lots of customers and press coverage, big salaries, more head count (or keeping the count you have), fancy offices and fancy perks, well-attended conferences with plentiful speaking slots for your stars.

    All of their competitors (with the exception of Red Hat, and maybe a couple others I can't think of at the moment) would be doing the same, if they could.

  3. Terrible summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Cloud computing isn't replacing personal computing. That's idiocy. Sure, some people will make more use of cloud apps, but personal computing is still alive and well.

    The summary also doesn't provide any details about how Amazon is actually behaving in a harmful manner. It's not at all clear to me that Amazon is actually behaving badly, or that they're more evil than, say, Microsoft Azure.

    Write a better summary. This one is garbage.

    1. Re:Terrible summary by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      The key difference is that this terminal is now not a source of lock in. If you have a web app, the odds are that the client side of it will run on a Windows PC, a Surface tablet, an iPad, Android tablet, or Chromebook without any issues. Porting the server side to a different cloud provider is harder, which is why this is the thing that matters for business now.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  4. Not like Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work at Amazon at AWS. One of our main principles is customer obsession - we try REALLY hard not to break any customers' workflows. Sometimes it means supporting awkward API features misconceived more than 10 years ago.

    For big customers we also try to bend over backwards to accommodate them. "Pain to deal'? Hardly. There's a reason why CIA has chosen Amazon over IBM.

    1. Re:Not like Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I work at Amazon at AWS. One of our main principles is customer obsession - we try REALLY hard not to break any customers' workflows. Sometimes it means supporting awkward API features misconceived more than 10 years ago."

      You literally just described Microsoft, right after saying "Not like Microsoft".

    2. Re:Not like Microsoft by mnemotronic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I work at Amazon at AWS. One of our main principles is customer obsession - we try REALLY hard not to break any customers' workflows. Sometimes it means supporting awkward API features misconceived more than 10 years ago. For big customers we also try to bend over backwards to accommodate them. "Pain to deal'? Hardly. There's a reason why CIA has chosen Amazon over IBM.

      Supporting legacy is a pain but helps with customer retention which, in turn, makes the sales guys happy and adds to the bottom line. It can have unintended consequences as "old API think" can interfere with "the new way of doing things". In an attempt to support old and new, a product can become contorted, like someone with a bad knee who can't afford a replacement or doesn't want surgery. They learn to walk funny to relieve the knee pain and, as a result, develop hip, spine and neck problems.

      Any input on this paragraph from the article:

      Tech companies behave this way because most employees are young and haven’t worked anywhere else and because the behavior reflects the character of the ounder. If the boss tells you to beat up customers and partners and it’s your first job out of college, then you beat up customers and partners because that’s the only world you know.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    3. Re:Not like Microsoft by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I work at Amazon at AWS. One of our main principles is customer obsession - we try REALLY hard not to break any customers' workflows. Sometimes it means supporting awkward API features misconceived more than 10 years ago.

      So, exactly like Microsoft in the mid '90s then? Remember Windows 95, which would detect SimCity binaries and defer returning memory to the OS when running them so that a use-after-free bug that worked fine in DOS didn't crash in Windows 95? Or any of the other few hundred hacks that they had? Or the security nightmare of Windows XP that came from relaxing the Windows NT security policies to avoid breaking code written for Windows 95? I'd be hard pressed to think of a company that's invested more than Microsoft in avoiding breaking third-party code. None of this was for altruistic reasons - legacy Win16 and then Win32 applications were what kept people buying Windows. Break them, and porting them or rewriting them to work on new Windows suddenly becomes a thing that businesses evaluate alongside porting them to another OS (or turning them into web apps).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  5. Compulsory Lord Acton quotation by Archtech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men, with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption it is the other way against holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it".

    - Lord Acton (Letter to Bishop Creighton, 1887)

    Lord Acton was one of the good guys. He corresponded briefly with General Robert E. Lee, so I suppose any statues to him must be torn down. Nevertheless, he enunciated one of the great and eternal truths about politics.

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  6. Article is mostly content free by Kohath · · Score: 2

    He says AWS is a pain to deal with. He doesn’t offer a single example or link or comparison to back that up. The whole thing is XYZ commentator says XYZ new company reminds him of XYZ old company. Ok, thanks for that, but I can't really use that information because it isn't really information at all.

  7. Re:lol at the link to the old cringely interview by Reverend+Green · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yet here you are....

  8. Hah! by Halster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is THE most weak premise for an article I've seen in a long time. Calling it clickbait is too good.

    In the 90's Microsoft was dominant because it was the main platform for OSes on devices, because it had tie-ins with it's other products, because device makers had nowhere else to go, and because although it's software was not the greatest it was where all the development was happening.

    Google is the new Microsoft, not Amazon.

    --

    "How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
    1. Re:Hah! by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      Google and Amazon are fighting over who will be the next Microsoft. Maybe they both will: there's no limit to jerkhood.

    2. Re:Hah! by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 2

      Microsoft's 90s domination was mainly because of the way they first rode on IBM's coattails and then when the time was right screwed them over by taking the side of all the companies who made clones. The problem however wasn't that they were dominant, but the ways in which they tried to ensure the continuation of that domination and spread it to other markets.

      Rather than just making better products than their competitors, a foreign concept for a company whose first big success was buying a CP/M ripoff and modifying it for IBM's needs because IBM didn't want to pay per-machine royalties to the company who made CP/M, they instead focused on trying to hamper their competitors. This involves changing things simply to cause incompatibilities with other companies' products, purposefully causing applications like Word Perfect and the GEM desktop (from the same company that made CP/M) that competed with their applications to crash for no reason, refusing to support common standards and trying to lock markets to their OS by being a loss leader in them (IE+ActiveX anyone?).

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
  9. Oh you innocent kid! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, and if Windows failed to provide a good service, customers could have gone elsewhere without much trouble.
    There was macOS, there was OS/2, there was Linux, and probably more, depending on the time we're talking about.

    Yet they didn't!

    People could also use use some of the many other social networks. But they use Facebook.

    That is the point here. People always imply the idealistic magical "free market". But in reality, every for-profit corporation is working their asses off to prevent the market from being free. If necessary via having their lobbyists be the politicians, so that when they do evil, they can have everyone blame the one instance that, if healthy, is the instance of the people: The government.

  10. CIA approved by boudie2 · · Score: 2

    "If it's good enough for the CIA it's good enough for you." Now if that doesn't close the deal nothing will.

  11. Don't bet on it by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "cloud computing is guaranteed to replace personal computing over the next three years"

    First: I don't trust the cloud. Until the CEO's are held accountable for data breaches ( eg jail time ) then I will not be trusting my day to day data with any cloud provider.

    Second: The US of A is going to have to make some serious improvements in broadband ( I would say at least 100Mbps symmetrical with no data caps ) before this can even become something more than wishful thinking.

    Third: My local system will continue to work just fine offline. ISP goes down, or has some crazy troubles, I can still get work done. Not so well if everything I need is online somewhere. I deal with this already on a smaller scale via the VPN I use to connect to the corporate network. My ISP goes stupid, I may as well drive into the office or bust out the smartphone and fire up a tether. Otherwise, no work gets done.

    The mega-ISP's certainly aren't going to go along with this without being forced so the whole idea of " replacing desktop computing with a cloud based one " is laughable given the current environment.