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Russia Wants To Launch Backup DNS System By August 1, 2018 (bleepingcomputer.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report from BleepingComputer: The Russian government plans to build its own "independent internet infrastructure" that will be used by BRICS member states -- Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. The plan was part of the topic list at the October meeting of the Russian Security Council, and President Vladimir Putin approved the initiative with a completion deadline of August 1, 2018, according to Russian news agency RT. The Russian Security Council has today formally asked the country's government to start the building of a backup global DNS system that Russia and fellow BRICS member states could use. The Russian Security Council cited the "increased capabilities of western nations to conduct offensive operations in the informational space." Russia, China, and many other countries have criticized the U.S. for hoarding control over the domain naming system (DNS), a position they claim has allowed the U.S. to intercept and tap global internet traffic. The U.S. has relinquished control over the DNS system last year.
I don't know if this can be stopped but it should be.
A backup makes it sound like it is a plan in case of failure. This sounds a bit like they are looking for an alternate DNS if they disapprove of something the US (or other countries) has done. From the article "In addition, the backup DNS system also allows these states to isolate websites and services that other countries could not access."
Sent from my TARDIS
"We are here to make sure you see every very good double plus good Sputnik and Russia Today story! We show environmental themed BS to get viewers, while slipping in all necessary anti-western propoganda, well news...."
I trust Russia and China more than than the US. Anything to get the US out of the internet is fine by me.
Please let this be the stupidest comment I read today.
With Google controlled by Alphabet and the Britain / PornHub alliance I see this backup DNS as a promising hope for the Internet.
An example that comes to mind is "gray market" areas such as PirateBay... how would a Russian DNS system respond to requests to block them?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
Might work for nationalist interests, but clearly against the goals of global commmunication. Also, clearly obtuse to bring BRICS into it as you lack common language and national objectives for some kind of unified system. Seems more like cover for saying Russia is effectively disconnecting from the internet.
This will just enable them to poison and sabotage the western DNS system while remaining largely unaffected themselves
You must be one of those people that believe good fences make good neighbors. We are all one humanity, one human population. Until we begin to focus more on uniting versus dividing the planetâ(TM)s population, our earth society will stop progressing and begin to regress. People rarely accomplish anything of significance without the cooperation and help of others. United we stand, divided we fall applies to the world.
Are only useful if people point their requests to them.
Just ask your comcast or spectrum servers.
It could be worse, the UN could be taking over the root servers, followed by 14 years of meetings to decide which DNS Council member would have complete control.
>clearly against the goals of global communication
Not necessarily. We have all sorts of devices and OSes talking to each other over the Internet. There's nothing about having control over your regional infrastructure that automatically precludes connecting to the world. In fact, I'd say it's just as likely to prevent other political entities from interfering with your connectivity.
> Seems more like cover for saying Russia is effectively disconnecting from the internet.
More like a cover for Russia having the capability to filter or disconnect international Internet traffic. It would be economically counter-productive to entirely cut themselves off, and the rich folks who runs things don't like things that cost them even small portions of their wealth.
It's about control.
It seems to be the answer to everything these days
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
While the Internet's a beautiful thing overall, the fact that - more or less - it operates at the whim of the USA is not a great feature for anyone but the USA.
Every nation should have its own DNS infrastructure, total control over wired connections that cross their borders, and dedicated state heavily-encrypted VPN tunnels to allied states (especially whenever the connections are accessible to American subs).
Sure, those are the same things you'd expect from a totalitarian regime trying to control the flow of information to aide in oppressing their own population, but they're ALSO what you should expect of a nation acting in the best interests of its population.
Which outcome is more likely? A benevolent use of the alternate internet or an eventual splintering of internet access at borders drawn in the dirt?
It's very easy to criticize the imperfect system we have in place now, but worldwide connectivity is one giant, current benefit.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
While each country should invest on keeping their infrastructure up to date, and ready to operate without any particular point of failure. However there is a need to push freedom. To push this idea of freedom we also need to push the idea of a cultural bravery to accept that free information is inherently very dangerous.
Just like gun rights. Guns are dangerous, laws to limit gun use will make the country safer, however it will be at a cost of freedom. The same thing is about free speech, in many ways it is much more dangerous then guns, however its risk also can lead to great rewards.
When we say the Land of the Free and the home of the brave. It means we need both freedom and bravery to prosper. Freedom without bravery will lead us down a path of taking the safest options. Which will whittle down our freedoms.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Well now.
I don't read AC
Probably ignore them. Requests to block DNS requests of certain websites are stupid solutions to a problem that isn't that big.
Because this is the only one ?
KREMVAX was an april'f ool joke but in Soviet Union there was an UUCP-like networking system.
So, if my browser looked up each page in both DNS systems, and showed a warning in case of a mismatch, that would give me a higher certainty that the source is not being intercepted at the DNS level, right?
There is a Russian proposal to have an alternative DNS as a backup. This would be done under control of the BRICKS nations. So it would not be controlled by Russia alone but by Brazil, India, China,Korea,South Africa and Russia. Almost all of the BRICKS initiatives I have seen focus on economic issues not on purely security or military interests. Given the very different interests of the BRICKS nations this makes sense. To be effective this alternative would have to interconnect with the current system as seamlessly as possible. One this may never happen. Two we do not know what it will be like if it does happen. Building a more robust Internet is in everyones interest.
While the Internet's a beautiful thing overall, the fact that - more or less - it operates at the whim of the USA is not a great feature for anyone but the USA.
While the US isn't perfect (as a Canadian neighbour I can see this first-hand), there aren't very many countries that would be 'better' at running things. Especially went it comes to things like free speech, where the First Amendment has been generally interpreted broadly.
Every nation should have its own DNS infrastructure, total control over wired connections that cross their borders, and dedicated state heavily-encrypted VPN tunnels to allied states (especially whenever the connections are accessible to American subs).
What "DNS infrastructure" do you really need though? The root zone file is fairly well-distributed, for an organization point of view:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_name_server
You got Verisign, ISC (makers of BIND), RIPE, ICANN, etc. running things all over the place.
Of course you have corporate entities running things like .com, but if you want to be "domestically protected", run things under your own ccTLD. For example, Canada's .ca is run by a non-profit corporation that is based in-country.
Between some in-country root servers at various IXPs, and and in-coutry ccTLD, that certainly helps in the self-sufficiency department.
The main issue in Canada (IMHO) is that a lot of our cross-continental links go into the US (for distance / cost reasons). Of course Canada is part of Five Eyes, so things aren't that with our "allies", but it is non-ideal.
Maybe they are forking it for a better web, how do you know ?
I think EU should have forked the DNS a long time ago too.
We could share/synchro our DNS entries with US (or RUS, CHINA ones) as long as we agree with those entries.
If Icann start to allow registering unwanted extensions then we reserve the rights not to route them.
I want to know what problem they are hoping to solve. Anyone can stand up their own DNS infrastructure. All you need is two static IP addresses and (preferrably) two computers. Just load your choice of operating system and Unbound and NSD. If the Russians are hoping to control politically objectionable material, DNS is the wrong way to go about it. If they're concerned about being denied access to the DNS system, there are easy ways to get around that too. It seems to me that Vladimir Putin does not really understand how the internet works.
Every bit of that was hypocritical bull. It's an open secret that Russia has been conducting their own offensive operations for years now, and they have been getting away with it specifically because the US can't "intercept and tap global internet traffic" as the Russians claim.
But their excuses for segmenting off their own corner of the internet aren't really meant for us, anyway; they're directed inward. In fact, this entire maneuver is almost certainly directly linked to Russia's desire (and that of their allies) to more thoroughly block access at will to large swaths of the internet, for their own populace. Don't like the latest anti-Russian sentiment on Slashdot or on Facebook, because it comes to close to exposing the truth? No problem -- just block it! When they start implementing their real agenda, they'll likely position it as an "anti-porn" initiative or some such thing, but make no mistake; this is all about controlling the information that reaches the people that matter the most... the ones who might one day rise up against the Orwellian control being exerted by their government.
Information control only works for so long, before little bits of the truth leak through the cracks.
Don't go here https://slashdot.org/~WindBour...
Oh yeah I'd LOVE to plug my national internet into Russian spyware systems.
The BRICS have long been discussing how to counter US monopoly positions in a variety of fields. If you want, you could say this is a reaction to the US forcing sanctions on Iran by leveraging US dominance of international banking
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And when you say 'uniting' you mean 'giving some of your stuff up to meeeee.'
This seems pretty off topic because DNS has nothing to do with RT's press credentials, but if you're relying on RT for your news you won't get the complete picture and you absolutely will get a pro russia bias. They omit quotes that don't favor Russia's interest.
Also, here in the US we don't generally say investigating something is dangerous to the press' safety.
If you're American, I say you're a fool. There is a reason independents aren't buying this. If you're Russian... well go figure. Fortunately, most of us see the BS.
I don't have links handy. They are burried in my reddit history. My sources for these are a CNN interview with a russian lawyer where the lawyer claimed that looking into the issue was dangerous, even for him, and an RT article on the US oil sanctions which trump is not enforcing.
This isn't to ensure functioning DNS in the face of US malfeasance. There are already multiple DNS services independent of US meddling (like OpenNIC). They want an infrastructure that they can control.
So much BS from fellow /.'s
It's not about creating a local backup for the Internet.
It's not about offensive operations.
It's about control and control only. Putin does everything to clamp down on the freedom of speech. First VPN, now this. You have to be living under the rock not to see that the opposition is being thrashed and stifled. Russia is perhaps the richest country in the world yet at the same time the average monthly salary outside of Moscow is below $600 (!) a month, where medical care is limping along and most doctors (over >90%) don't give a damn about your well being and hospitals lack the equipment to treat and diagnose you. Science, education and culture are all empty shells of what they used to be in the USSR. Over 70% of the young who live in Moscow dream of leaving the country for good. I could talk for hours about how everything, except monopolies, the elite and their deep pockets, is fucked up beyond repair in Russia. A country run by organized mafia, with Putin (commonly called Putler) as its godfather. // Artem S. Tashkinov
Perhaps I'm being a bit paranoid, but to me this suggests they're creating a backup NOT because of the USA's control over DNS, but as a backup for if they were to attack the existing DNS infrastructure. Current DNS providers should take this news as a reason to further invest in hardening their systems, and possibly pushing for bug bounties to bring vulnerabilities to light. Especially in the wake of various NSA / CIA toolkits getting exposed, there could be existing vulnerabilities known to government agencies that are unknown to internet infrastructure providers.
One part of the comment which is not stupid is that US control of the internet only benefits the US but not the other 96% of the earth's population. (Some moronic idiot once replied with a [citation needed]. Clue: google for US population. Google for world population. Divide.)
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
If Russia does launch alternate DNS servers, will they use re-usable boosters?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Yes, being able to cruise your gunboats into any port in the world is a definite benefit. To those who own big gunboats. It would be a pity if incompatibilities were introduced so that, say, Google can not operate with impunity in any of the areas where no government body has oversight over them.
World connectivity has to do with numbered IP datagrams, however they might be de-referenced.
"Why" should a Russian DNS system respond to requests to block them?
Being Russian I am sure it will be home to every hacker and ner do well on the internet. I trust them even less than I do Google, Apple and Microsoft.
Corporatism != Free Market
DNS looks up YOU!
So if I'm visiting Russia, and the DNS redirects me to a malicious version of a site I "trust", how will I know? Even if its https, the malicious site could be using a different cert authority, which says that the certificate is legit.
This is just propaganda for idiots.
The main use of DNS is to resolve URLs to IP addresses, ex. www.google.com is at 54.32.87.65. Your DNS server either has the address cached or it asks another DNS server upstream if it has the address. This repeats until it gets to a top level server (.com, .org, being Top Level Domains). Anywhere along that route, a DNS server can be programmed to return whatever IP address it feels like. So if Russia wants to hijack DNS, all it has to do is put itself into that chain. And since the top level servers are well known and they own the wires used to send DNS messages, they can re-route all traffic to top level servers to their own servers. I would be surprised if they don't have this capability already.
Announcing that they are going to do this overtly is just plain stupid.
Just to highlight my actual point - Russia is the aggressor. They aren't being picked on.
There is a solution that is fully within Russia's power to enact. Stop being an aggressor.
Interesting. So with two DNS systems, I can easily look up the DNS of a site in two independent sources, and actually corroborate it? That's fantastic! If both the USA and Russia agree, I can be way more sure.
Maybe we should have a third, like Australia, or Argentina, so we can have a 2 vs 1 determination? Hell, call it DNS-5 and store it parity-distributed like RAID-5 and be beautiful.
That's more or less what this sounds like. To borrow from a meme: This kills the Internet. Everyone here in the U.S. worries about the loss of Net Neutrality regulations allowing American ISPs to create 'walled gardens'? Well, that's Amateur Night compared to what'll happen to the Internet worldwide if a bunch of countries start literally forking it like this.
You mean, like North Korea? For that's, in essence, what you are describing.
The CAPABILITY to be North Korea. Or perhaps simply not to be at the mercy of another nation when it comes to your Internet infrastructure.
Are you equally upset that other nations have their own militaries?
Both are Crony Capitalist states obsessed with control.
If somebody wants to be like NK, more power to them.
If they want to live in a repressive regime run by the rich and "hand me down kings", then so be it.
Wait... we talking bout NK or the US? I'm confused.
DNS cannot be used to block access. Anyone can visit websites by IP addresses or use a hosts file to resolve "blocked" domain names. Means and laws to block websites have been in place in Russia for a long time, but they are applied sparingly, because a court order is required and all blocks are public. "Fake news" filtering announced by Google and Facebook is much bigger blow to freedom of speech because of its lack of pulbicity or legal scrutiny.
1. Let the BRICS states have their own government-controlled internet.
2. Let the rest of the world have the current internet.
3. Do not allow the two systems to be connected.
See how that works out for the BRICS.
This problem has been brewing since certain governments started limiting internet access. It might be a good time to bring it to a head.
South Africa is heading for a future where Stalin is hailed as a saint, because such a low percentage of the Soviet population was killed during his reign of terror.
Dictate terms. They love that.
All states are obsessed with control.
Every regime wants to stay in control of their population.
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.