Slashdot Mirror
State Board Concedes It Violated Free Speech Rights of Oregon Man Fined For Writing 'I Am An Engineer' (oregonlive.com)
According to Oregon Live, "A state panel violated a Beaverton man's free speech rights by claiming he had unlawfully used the title 'engineer' and by fining him when he repeatedly challenged Oregon's traffic-signal timing before local media and policymakers, Oregon's attorney general has ruled." From the report: Oregon's Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying unconstitutionally applied state law governing engineering practice to Mats Jarlstrom when he exercised his free speech about traffic lights and described himself as an engineer since he was doing so "in a noncommercial'' setting and not soliciting professional business, the state Department of Justice has conceded. "We have admitted to violating Mr. Jarlstrom's rights,'' said Christina L. Beatty-Walters, senior assistant attorney general, in federal court Monday. The state's regulation of Jarlstrom under engineering practice law "was not narrowly tailored to any compelling state interests,'' she wrote in court papers. The state has pledged the board will not pursue the Beaverton man any further when he's not acting in a commercial or professional manner, and on Monday urged a federal judge to dismiss the case. The state also sent a $500 check to Jarlstrom in August, reimbursing him for the state fine.
Jarlstrom and his lawyers argued that's not good enough. They contend Jarlstrom isn't alone in getting snared by the state board's aggressive and "overbroad'' interpretation of state law. They contend others have been investigated improperly and want the court to look broader at the state law and its administrative rules and declare them unconstitutional. In the alternative, the state law should be restricted to only regulating engineering communications that are made as part of paid employment or a contractual agreement.
Jarlstrom and his lawyers argued that's not good enough. They contend Jarlstrom isn't alone in getting snared by the state board's aggressive and "overbroad'' interpretation of state law. They contend others have been investigated improperly and want the court to look broader at the state law and its administrative rules and declare them unconstitutional. In the alternative, the state law should be restricted to only regulating engineering communications that are made as part of paid employment or a contractual agreement.
STUDY: Satellites Show No Acceleration In Global Warming For 23 Years
Global warming has not accelerated temperature rise in the bulk atmosphere in more than two decades, according to a new study funded by the Department of Energy.
University of Alabama-Huntsville climate scientists John Christy and Richard McNider found that by removing the climate effects of volcanic eruptions early on in the satellite temperature record it showed virtually no change in the rate of warming since the early 1990s.
"We indicated 23 years ago â" in our 1994 Nature article â" that climate models had the atmosphereâ(TM)s sensitivity to CO2 much too high," Christy said in a statement. "This recent paper bolsters that conclusion."
Christy and McNider found the rate of warming has been 0.096 degrees Celsius per decade after "the removal of volcanic cooling in the early part of the record,â"which "is essentially the same value we determined in 1994 ⦠using only 15 years of data."
Whodathunkit
No global warming to speak of for 23 years
Hmmmm
- snruter rotsac
It's awesome.
Maybe this guy won his case, but it's pretty damn clear now that he is not an engineer.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Ok, so who's getting fired?
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Why did they go to such lengths over traffic lights? This seems to have been a rather sore spot for them.
The man was an engineer simply not registered in that state and was not attempting to drum up business but rather had given them a formula to replace the mathematical formula first developed in 1959 which only allowed for either stop or ticket when the yellow light was lit up treating it like a red light.
I would take a guess (which is worth nothing) that they knew about this issue probably for decades and continued with the flawed scenario doing a calculation of cost of fixing the problem vs cost of being sued for the problem (sort of like the fight club car recall formula). /*For those interested in the fight club car recall formula*/
Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Hello Your site is very good! I like it!!. It is very helpful site. Thank you so much Please Check My Website :- http://www.divit.co.in/persona...
Call Me Booking :- +91-9953272937 {24*7 Available} Escorts Services
To all those on Slashdot who defended the Oregon Board of Examiners (and there were a few of you that did), this would be a very good time for you to sit down and have this here warm cup of STFU.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Can anyone provide an argument for why or why not this man is or is not an engineer? This is crucial to understanding the story but it's not being presented clearly.
My karma was manually wiped by site staff https://slashdot.org/~slshdtisctrldbysjws 18 mod up, 10 mod down = bad karma
They did. The laws are designed to protect against someone who is unqualified from claiming to offer engineering as a service or offer their work as certified licensed work.
The person down at the local subway can call himself a "sandwich engineer" if they so choose, but as soon as they start claiming they can design structures, power grids, etc for someone, they're in trouble.
As an example, my good friend couldn't even put "engineering" in the title of his side business because he wasn't going to offer true engineering as a service. He is a licensed P.E. in three states..
Neat about the free speech and all, but we're all wondering first and foremost, how did it turn out with the traffic lights?
Considering the fine against him was essentially a SLAPP action, and Oregon has anti-SLAPP legislation, Mr. Jarlstrom should make the argument that an additional fine/restitution against the State Board should be applied in this case. Even if the specific legislation exempts the government, it could be argued by analogy.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
I wonder if the handful of morons who keep crying about how I'm such a liar and can never admit when I'm wrong will own up to the fact that I was right about this when it first came up a few months back. You know, with the facts and honest opinion I posted.
In other words, will the idiots stop spreading lies and admit they were wrong? You know, the things they insist I can't do, despite the frequency with which I back up my posts with actual references, come back to post corrections when I learn new information, and thank those who point me in the right direction when I'm wrong.
Will they? Huh? Will they be able to admit they were wrong?
Yes, I know this is off topic and I'm prepared to face the downmods. I just had to call out UnknowingFool, Zero__Kelvin, zifn4b, and the rest of that crew. If I'm expected to admit when I'm wrong (and I do when it happens), I expect the same from them and, well, after the dicking they've been giving me for the past few months, I deserve to gloat once.
In your face, assholes.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
So no real harm done. NEXT!
Do it before anyone can counter and then it's done already! Yeeeehaaaaw! Ride them little girls! Yeeeeehaaaaq!
"Prepositions and conjunctions are silent you moron" she spat back, rocking slowing up and down on the balls of her Christian Louboutin stiletto heels. "And it's pronounced OSBEELS. Like what I'm about to stick up yer OS if you give me any more B.". She paused to study me for any hint her threat had taken hold. I wasn't giving nothing away. She continued slowly "Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying. We say who's got what and", smiling seductively, "how to measure it."
It was starting to come back to me now. Jarlstromburg, something Swedish like that. Wheat farmer. Refugee from that deep-freeze known as Minnesota. He had moved to Beaverton and taken up running red lights, playing with stopwatches and tweeting traffic patterns. To OSBEELS. Yea, that's it. Claimed he was an engineer. Everyone knew the real story. He had the hots for that agency dame. What was her moniker? Jenaire? Jenson? Jender? I went through a mental list. "Jenn" I whispered to myself.
"Whadda want? I'm still here". She was still there, tapping her toe impatiently and looking like she needed an answer to a question that hadn't been asked. "Jenn Gilbert" I said slowly, recalling the name from the badge she had tucked back into her Parfum bra. Underwire model, judging by the package. "Senior Inspector Jenn Gilbert" she corrected me, eyes narrowing to sans-serif. "And kicker of other people's asses" she added with a smile that can only come from someone that loves their work a little too much. She produced a slender Turkish cigarette out of nowhere and, voice softening considerably, looked at me and asked "Light me up, big boy?". I took it as sign we were about to talk business, and maybe other things, like what's a classy dame like you doing with a Saint Laurent alligator handbag, where was her driver, and did my breath still smell like plankton? I fished a trigger-operated MAP gas torch from my pocket and fired up her smoke. "My, you don't mess around do you" she sighed. "I like a man like that" and blew a perfect smoke ring toward my silk Thai stick tree. "My plants don't smoke" I cautioned her "but my underware does". I had to acknowledge the effect she was having on me. That seemed to relax her even more. She peeled off her tight Von Furstenberg blazer like a snake shedding it's skin, but with considerably less vomiting and flopping around. Her movement hypnotized me. By the time I came to she was seated on the leather exam table in the corner of my office. "You practicing without a license?" she asked, moving the leg stirrups out of the way. "Maybe we can do each other a favor" she breathed in a voice that would harden melted butter.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
Mats Jarlstrom may have won the case, but from now on will be known as "that lying bastard who claims expertise he doesn't have"
Thank God he did not demand edgier, or more emotionally complex Star Wars -story lines from Disney while claiming to be Mickey Mouse. Disney would have revoked his citizenship and thrown him to Guantanamo, by the power of Trump's Make Disney Great Again executive order.
Nous Sommes Tous Ingenieur(s).
Although on second thought. Maybe not,
Did your RTFA? Did you see his photograph? Caption: "I'm an engineer, not a doctor, damnit!" http://image.oregonlive.com/ho...
Sometimes I'm glad I don't have mod points.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
The AMA doesn't try to own the word 'Doctor'.
Instead they claim 'Medical Doctor'.
It is crazy for the PE board to think they can own the word 'Engineer'.
They got their hand slapped and backed off the fine on this one case saying it was ok because he wasn't getting paid.
They clearly have not gotten the message yet.
There are plenty of other folks with the right to call themselves Engineers. (Those with degrees, and driving trains, and just for fun.)
The PE board needs to get over themselves and pick a more specific term to claim as their own.
'Professional Engineer' seems more reasonable.
'Certifiable Engineer' might be more close to the truth.
Many years ago I started a small software "engineering" shop with about a half dozen "engineers" (we used to call them that a lot more back then). Naturally, I thought it was a good idea to have "engineering" in the name of the company.
This was fine for quite a while as we never advertised and we certainly would never have even dreamed of passing ourselves off as some kind of structural or electrical engineering company. Then one day I added another phone line to the office and the local telephone company (without my knowledge) put a "free" yellow pages "ad" in their listing for the company...
The Association of Professional Engineers called me... They were good about it, but quite firm that I was absolutely not to do business under that name anymore unless I wanted to be sued out of existence. I changed the name at my inconvenience and expense. For good measure, I also changed my phone numbers.
I honestly had no idea that there was a group of people (with a lot of lawyers) who had a claim over a word in the English language. I still think it's wrong.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
In the land of the Free(TM), everyone is an engineer!
The folks who change the TP and light bulbs in my office are the "building engineers".
the folks who shovel the driveway in the winter are landscape engineers.
the folks who take out the trash are sanitation engineers.
the folks who drive me in a cab are transportation engineers.
even the code monkeys who bang out java crapplets are software engineers.
Where will it stop?
Why have any sort of monopoly over a title.
Just Call Me Your Royal Highness Dr.Admiral Anne Nonymous Esquire Ph.D, M.D, DMD, PDQ, QED.
"They contend others have been investigated improperly and want the court to look broader at the state law and its administrative rules and declare them unconstitutional. In the alternative, the state law should be restricted to only regulating engineering communications that are made as part of paid employment or a contractual agreement." Good luck! After all, this is Oregonistan you're talking about.
Why doesn't California go after all the web app developers who call themselves engineers but don't have an engineering degree? The title has been bastardized by the likes of Facebook and Google.
If calling yourself an Engineer is a free speech right, then I'm every cool, qualified title on earth.
I'm glad the pendulum is swinging the other way towards freer labor markets and less occupational licensing, since study after study shows all it does is hurt those worst off in society who have a valuable skill they can use to earn money, but don't have the money to pay for the license to legally use that skill. Also these licenses mean that we as consumers pay more for the services, be it barbers, plumbers, nurses, doctors, etc.
I don't care how well you did on some state-issued exam which may or may not be relevant to your job. All I care about is 'can you do the job i'm paying you for' and I determine that the same way most consumers do, Relying on the 'reputation market' of repeat business, branding, word-of-mouth, and review sites like yelp
Every time some idiot government employee/politician creates a law or regulation that the courts find to be in violation of our Constitution, the court should order them to pay (from their personal money, not state money) for 10 hours of legal training in what the Constitution lets them do and not do.
And those hours should double if they do it again, and double again if they do it a third time (40 hours), until they stop doing it.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
And my now expert diagnosis is that y'all are idiots