Google Wants Progressive Web Apps To Replace Chrome Apps (androidpolice.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Android Police: The Chrome Web Store originally launched in 2010, and serves a hub for installing apps, extensions, and themes packaged for Chrome. Over a year ago, Google announced that it would phase out Chrome apps on Windows, Mac, and Linux in 2018. Today, the company sent out an email to developers with additional information, as well as news about future Progressive Web App support. The existing schedule is mostly still in place -- Chrome apps on the Web Store will no longer be discoverable for Mac, Windows, and Linux users. In fact, if you visit the store right now on anything but a Chromebook, the Apps page is gone. Google originally planned to remove app support on all platforms (except Chrome OS) entirely by Q1 2018, but Google has decided to transition to Progressive Web Apps:

"The Chrome team is now working to enable Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) to be installed on the desktop. Once this functionality ships (roughly targeting mid-2018), users will be able to install web apps to the desktop and launch them via icons and shortcuts; similar to the way that Chrome Apps can be installed today. In order to enable a more seamless transition from Chrome Apps to the web, Chrome will not fully remove support for Chrome Apps on Windows, Mac or Linux until after Desktop PWA installability becomes available in 2018. Timelines are still rough, but this will be a number of months later than the originally planned deprecation timeline of 'early 2018.' We also recognize that Desktop PWAs will not replace all Chrome App capabilities. We have been investigating ways to simplify the transition for developers that depend on exclusive Chrome App APIs, and will continue to focus on this -- in particular the Sockets, HID and Serial APIs."

Comments

Jesus Christ

[FunkSoulBrother]

Jesus Christ just compile the damn code for each plaform so I can run it locally!

Re:Jesus Christ

[n329619]

Jesus Christ just compile the damn code for each plaform so I can run it locally!

Why would you want anything google locally? It's not like you can use google offline anyway.

Re:Jesus Christ

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the point. Artificially tying apps that should be able to function locally to Google's online services is stupid. It's the reason Chromebooks and web apps will never catch on.

Nobody should have to have an active internet connection just to write documents, edit pictures, listen to music or watch movies.

Re:Jesus Christ

[Wootery]

Something something sufficiently smart JIT compiler.

Re:Jesus Christ

[lucasnate1]

Will never catch on

What if they become the only option?

Re:Jesus Christ

[tepples]

What if [web applications] become the only option?

As long as single-board Real Computers such as Raspberry Pi continue to exist, how will things like Chrome OS become "the only option"?

Re:Jesus Christ

[tepples]

just compile the damn code for each plaform

That might work for large companies, which can afford sufficient instances of all six major platforms on which to test compiled executables as well as the recurring fees for a presence on iOS and Windows app stores. It might not work quite as well for amateurs or small companies, which cannot.

Re:Jesus Christ

[datavirtue]

Yawn. Web apps suck, as proven by the hundreds of attempts over the last few years to make it fun to develop web apps. Cross-platform, natively compiled mobile apps are the future. The HTML-based web is for reading and looking at pretty pictures. You can already deploy Xamarin.Forms apps to Android, iOS, Windows, MacOS, and Tizen...and probably others. If a new platform comes along you just import the project into your solution and hit build. Screw lock-in, and screw document-hack browser-based web apps.

Re:Jesus Christ

[datavirtue]

The element of trust around the security of the apps is worth the trade-offs. When most developers support every platform the heavy-handed ones will eventually die or wane influence (Apple). Oddly enough, the Linux desktop is being left out of the cross-platform innovation velocity.

Re: Jesus Christ

[Anonymous Coward]

Then code your own solution

Re:Jesus Christ

[DCFusor]

Right now they do function locally, my chromebook does editing, cooking timer, calculator and a host of other minor things, including VNC to other machines on my LAN - all without internet. It's what makes the thing useful to me (and all those apps also work on my more-capable machines too, for a unified UE). Saying chromebooks will never catch on is kinda missing the fact that they already have for education and some other uses where sysadmining is too much hassle - it's nice they don't need it. Some people immediately "break" any other type of machine, it's hard to ruin a chromebook...and easy to reset to working status.
.
If they remove the ability to work offline, it will seriously reduce the usefulness of these things...and I'll just put linux on mine instead.

Re:Jesus Christ

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus Christ just compile the damn code for each plaform so I can run it locally!

Indeed.

The major problem with "web apps" is that so far, I have yet to see a single one that doesn't suck donkey balls compared to a good local program.

I suspect there is a reason for that.

Re:Jesus Christ

[TheFakeTimCook]

Right now they do function locally, my chromebook does editing, cooking timer, calculator and a host of other minor things, including VNC to other machines on my LAN - all without internet. It's what makes the thing useful to me (and all those apps also work on my more-capable machines too, for a unified UE). Saying chromebooks will never catch on is kinda missing the fact that they already have for education and some other uses where sysadmining is too much hassle - it's nice they don't need it. Some people immediately "break" any other type of machine, it's hard to ruin a chromebook...and easy to reset to working status.
.

If they remove the ability to work offline, it will seriously reduce the usefulness of these things...and I'll just put linux on mine instead.

Just buy a Mac and you won't need a SysAdmin either.

Only Windows and Linux require such arcane meatsack-appliances to work in a corporate environment.

Re:Jesus Christ

[TheFakeTimCook]

just compile the damn code for each plaform

That might work for large companies, which can afford sufficient instances of all six major platforms on which to test compiled executables as well as the recurring fees for a presence on iOS and Windows app stores. It might not work quite as well for amateurs or small companies, which cannot.

iOS hasn't really needed this since iOS 8. Either use XCode or Cydia Reflector, and you can install any Apps you want, sans App Store.

Re:Jesus Christ

[tepples]

use XCode

For one thing, this is a Mac exclusive. For another, it requires the developer to have ported the application to iOS in the first place. Or since when has there become a way to take an Android or UWP application and recompile it for iOS with no changes?

Re:Jesus Christ

[Anonymous Coward]

So the UWP app just magically ported itself to Android and didn’t need recompilig? Yeah, that’s bullshit.

Re:Jesus Christ

[tepples]

Exactly. If someone wants to reach users of all three mobile platforms (Android, iOS, and Windows 10 S) or users of all three desktop platforms (Windows desktop, macOS, and GNU/Linux), he'd have to write an application three times as a native application. Or he could write it once as a web application.

Re:Jesus Christ

[Anonymous Coward]

Progressive Web Apps can work offline.
That's why it's an "App", not a "Page".

Seriously - actually look into it.

Re:Jesus Christ

[TheFakeTimCook]

use XCode

For one thing, this is a Mac exclusive. For another, it requires the developer to have ported the application to iOS in the first place. Or since when has there become a way to take an Android or UWP application and recompile it for iOS with no changes?

My post was rep,ting to a post that alluded to the fact that the App had already been recompiled/ported to iOS, and that the only barrier at that point was having to deal with the iOS App Store for a corporate App.

And although XCode is necessary to develop/compile for an iOS target, Cydia's "Impactor" will allow the loading of already-compiled ".ipa" files, and has versions that run not only on macOS, but also Windows (and possibly Linux?). That neatly sidesteps your other non-argument.

Re:Jesus Christ

[xeoron]

Chromebooks are very popular with kids, older adults, etc for just working. You don't need a active connection to use Google Apps. Turn on Offline mode and you are all set. Or fire up Crouton, and run various Linux flavors side-by-side ChromeOS. Plus, some Chromebooks run Android Apps, which offers up so much more one can do on a Chromebook for the masses.

Re:Jesus Christ

[Anonymous Coward]

Chrome OS doesn't even have a single percentage of the market. It's insignificant.

I've also never seen anyone with a Chromebook, ever. Everyone has Windows computers, Macs or the odd Linux computer.

WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[UnknownSoldier]

And how are they different from normal web apps?

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Z80a]

They ask you for your preferred pronouns before running and have fonts adapted for reading with problem glasses.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

According to developers.google.com, among other things they "Load instantly and never show the downasaur, even in uncertain network conditions."

I couldn't make this stuff up.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

>> They ask you for your preferred pronouns
I heard they also have extensive privilege checks.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, they frequently zone out or commit suicide. They also steal your credit card numbers and make unauthorized charges.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess Progressive Web Apps can't do ping or traceroute then.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Hal_Porter]

https://medium.com/@adactio/wh...

Reliable - Load instantly and never show the downasaur, even in uncertain network conditions

Jeremy Keith
A web developer and author living and working in Brighton, England.

Why does that not surprise me? Brighton is basically the hipster capital of the UK.

Likewise, Progressive Web Apps consist of:

1. HTTPS,
2. A service worker, and
3. A Web App Manifest

It seems like cache some html pages. They have an Javascript worker thread, and the thread queries the remote server. If there's no connection to the server you get the cached html page with the old data rather than that irritating T Rex jumping cactuses game that you'd otherwise get in Chrome Mobile.

I suppose it's progress of a sort - Google have finally realised that not everyone has a internet connection all the time. Then again that's rather obvious - even in somewhere like NYC you lose your network connection on the subway between stops so an application which needs a connection all the time to run is unusable. Also it's a lot easier to find developers who can do Javascript and HTML than it is ones who can do Java.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

They silently install and download if you use them enough.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[93 Escort Wagon]

... even in somewhere like NYC you lose your network connection on the subway between stops so an application which needs a connection all the time to run is unusable.

I agree the oft-held Silicon Valley belief that everyone has fast internet everywhere is ridiculous; but this particular situation can be solved by your transit authority - the technology exists to extend cellular signals into subways. In the (much smaller) Seattle system, we've had cell coverage from all major carriers for about a year. I can only speak to my experience on T-Mobile in the tunnels; but it has been very reliable.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[AmiMoJo]

They are web sites that are installable and can run like native apps.

They are an interesting idea because they bring mobile app style sandboxing and permissions to desktop apps. Since the app it basically HTML, CSS and Javascript there are very mature sandboxes available to run them in, and in fact you have a choice of sandbox from your favourite browser vendor, opening up the possibility of extreme levels of control and in-app ad-blocking.

There are limits to what these apps can do, so they are mostly suited to highly networked stuff like cloud services, advanced web site interfaces like the Twitter and Facebook apps on mobile, messenger clients etc.

Microsoft are in trouble because these compete with their failed Metro apps on Windows, and make Windows itself kind of irrelevant because now the browser is the OS and the cloud is the disk. Obviously /.ers are not going to be happy with that.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Hal_Porter]

It's true in Stockholm too - they installed 'leaky feeders'

Mind you if you look at the article it says "An alternative to using leaky feeder in underground railways is to use Distributed Antenna System (DAS). A DAS system was deployed in some New York City Subway stations by Transit Wireless to provide WiFi and mobile phone and data coverage for customers."

Actually in NYC if you're in the station the Transit Wireless usually works. It's if you're on the train in tunnel between stations it doesn't. Also, irritatingly, Transit Wireless does a captive portal scheme so you need to click 'Connect' on the captive portal page to get a signal. That's slow enough that you often can't do it before the train leaves the station.

I.e. once you're on the train, you only get small bursts of internet connectivity.

Of course most subway providers find it hard enough to provide trains reliably, let alone Wifi or 3G signals in tunnels.

Even in Taipei, which has an excellent, cheap, clean and reliable subway service you're not going to get much of a mobile signal on the train.

And it's not like there's any competition in subway providers in any city.

And of course if you head out of the city, you're probably not going to get much more than GPRS data rates because you're miles from the nearest cell tower.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Alumoi]

So, business as usual, huh?

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Aaaand can be turned off at a whim leaving you high and dry.

At least with genuine installable apps, if the company turns its servers off because "oh we're not supporting it anymore", you aren't going to be completely f*cked.

This is why PWA should be treated like a disease and avoided.

Think of it like DRM, when you have bought a load of stuff, and then the company goes bump or simply stops supporting it's auth servers. All those nice things you bought suddenly no longer work and you would need to replace them. Nice for the company, but not so nice to shit on the customer.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[TheRaven64]

Brighton is basically the hipster capital of the UK.

When did that happen? I thought Brighton was still a wasteland pining for the days before Brits could afford international travel when it was a major holiday destination.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[TheRaven64]

As I understand it, they're basically web apps that support offline use. HTML5 supports local storage and so it's possible to write apps that run in a browser but still work when the web site is down. They also adopt a bunch of ideas from Java Web Start (remember that?) where they'll quickly download the code required to get the core UI working and then download the rest on demand. If the network isn't present, then some features may not work (or may not work if you don't use them the first time when you're connected), but in theory you shouldn't lose any data. Unlike Google's office suite, where if they install an update on the server while you're offline then when you reconnect you'll get a nice dialog telling you that you'll lose all data when you hit okay, with no other buttons.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's become a major student town, and having a large student population tends to shift the demographics in that direction.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Hal_Porter]

Loads of London hipsters moved there and gentrified the place.

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/...

Now it's Shoreditch by Sea.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[schleimkeim]

downasaur

That's the perfect mascot for a company that seems to have down syndrome.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[AlejandroTejadaC]

On first sight, I though this was a joke. It's not a joke, it's for real... https://developers.google.com/...

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[zmooc]

So what apps do you use that do not rely on a central server anyway because the primary goal of such apps is to do stuff together with others (chat, social network, managing data) or to offer computationally intensive features (voice recognition, route planning with many realtime variables etc.). It all requires a central server anyway.

Nevertheless, where we can, we should avoid such centrally managed services in favor of distributed alternatives. So the problem is not progressive web apps per se, it's centralized monopolisation of stuff that could and should have been distributed. However, once stuff has become distributed, the problem you describe goes away too. So, dependence on 3rd parties is not a reason to avoid progressive webapps. It is, however, a reason to avoid centrally managed services. But that requires alternatives, which are mostly non-existens...

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

So what apps do you use that do not rely on a central server anyway because the primary goal of such apps is to do stuff together with others (chat, social network, managing data) or to offer computationally intensive features (voice recognition, route planning with many realtime variables etc.). It all requires a central server anyway

Err, no it doesn't. Half a seconds thought and I've come up with a multitude of things which do not need a central server for anything. How ever did you come up with such a stupid statement?

So, without further ado, that'll be Excel for your accounts, Word for your CV, and any other number of *many* apps out there that do not /need/ a central server to do local work. Writing a book? Doesn't need a central server. Playing a local game? Those don't 'need' central servers and certainly worked before the internets.

A great many /creative/ things do /not/ need to plugged into the f*cking internet to get stuff done.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[mattr]

I'm working on an enterprise project where ability to do a lot offline is a major part of the functionality, for example think about service reps traveling far from reliable wifi. It's a thing.
Meanwhile I'd just be happy if I could read slashdot on my Kindle Paperwhite without suffering insanity..

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

And how are they different from normal web apps?

They are more regressive, and generally suck ass, and have to have forced monetization of you, and installs themselves on your computer behind your back.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this any different than Java Web Start applications that were available as far back as 2001?

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they don't require a server at all, then all of the code is installed onto your device like any other kind of app.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[jbengt]

Microsoft are in trouble because these compete with their failed Metro apps on Windows, and make Windows itself kind of irrelevant because now the browser is the OS and the cloud is the disk.

So Microsoft's 1990s paranoia about Netscape's attempt to make the browser the OS is finally proving true?

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

These ones have a very liberal view on the world.....

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft are in trouble because these compete with their failed Metro apps on Windows

As you said, Metro is a failure. Microsoft gave up on their phone. Web apps are not relevant on the desktop. Microsoft are not in trouble except insofar as they were trying to cash in on online services.

There's so much excited talk about web apps, about how great sandboxing is. It's getting twisted into something it can never be: software for PCs. The marketing teams are not trying to phase in web apps so much as they're trying to phase out productivity devices. If a chromebook serves your purposes then web apps make sense. If you actually want to do work in addition to online shopping then you probably use a PC and web apps are not relevant. If you use a PC and you're excited about web apps then you've been suckered.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[AmiMoJo]

Indeed, they were only out by a couple of decades but the threat was real. Javascript was just the start of it.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[tepples]

even in somewhere like NYC you lose your network connection on the subway between stops so an application which needs a connection all the time to run is unusable

this particular situation can be solved by your transit authority - the technology exists to extend cellular signals into subways

Though that alleviates the coverage problem, it doesn't alleviate the cost to users of having to subscribe to two ISPs: one at home and one cellular.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[tepples]

So what apps do you use that do not rely on a central server anyway because the primary goal of such apps is to do stuff together with others (chat, social network, managing data)

I regularly use FamiTracker, Python, cc65, and FCEUX Debugger in my work. These are locally installed applications. We also use various collaboration platforms, but each of them can be replaced with an equivalent: forums with forums, mail servers with mail servers, IRC servers with IRC servers, and Git servers with Git servers.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

From Soho down to Brighton, Pete must've played them all.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Wdomburg]

In other words, the world is going the way of WebOS in spite of WebOS going the way of the Dodo.

One could argue this will be a boon for Microsoft in the mobile space since it lets customers break out of the Chrome / ChromeOS / Android ecosystem.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[datavirtue]

" Also it's a lot easier to find developers who can do Javascript and HTML than it is ones who can do Java."

We have had this paradigm for about ten years now and it hasn't yielded any mind blowing innovation other than an extremely fragmented array of JavaScript frameworks. Who can seriously entertain the thought of a JS framework gaining acceptance for more than six months? I think it would be best if we started pushing these people away from application development. The ship has sailed.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[datavirtue]

"mobile app style sandboxing and permissions to desktop apps."
Just build a mobile app.

"There are limits to what these apps can do"
Again, just build a mobile app.

"Microsoft are in trouble because these compete with their failed Metro apps on Windows"
False. They (Google) are trying to compete with mobile apps in general--weird. Cross-platform development on Xamarin Forms using open-source frameworks has completely killed this argument. Xamarin builds the same app for Windows, Mac, iOS, and Android with hardly any platform specific code to speak of. You can go through the app stores or you can ship the apps to users and let them install manually.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing I know about Brighton is a rumble is happening there. Tonight.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[datavirtue]

"The marketing teams are not trying to phase in web apps so much as they're trying to phase out productivity devices."
Agreed. There is a lack of understanding pervading the industry right now. For years it was web-apps frenzy. It never felt quite right to developers but we went along with it. Cross-platform native development of mobile apps has just matured. We are standing at the starting point where web apps become...not the future.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just build a mobile app.

We're sorry, the following App is not compatible with your OS/Version

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Fahrvergnuugen]

The miniquad (drone) community relies on these apps to configure the flight controller software.

What makes them special when compared to a regular Web App is that these Chrome apps have access to the computer's USB/Serial interface so they can talk to the drone's flight controller.

For the small dev teams of these apps, Chrome is great because they only have to write one GUI to support all major platforms. Google achieved what Java was trying to achieve as far as run anywhere - the difference is Chrome apps don't suck.

There are also flight control black box readers that read log files in and overlay the data with flight video footage so you can diagnose tuning issues (though this could theoretically be done by uploading black box log data to a web app).

Check out Cleanflight, Betaflight, Raceflight, KissFC, Betaflight Blackbox Reader.

Re: WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

We're sorry, the 3 of 14 app stores you had to submit your app to have rejected your submission, good thing your corporate users are ok waiting a few more months.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Hal_Porter]

I don't like JavaScript and HTML as application platforms, or really the sort of people who use them.

But if you spend some time in NYC you can't swing a medieval spiked mace without hitting one of them.

Right now I'd probably go for Xamarin and C# for a cross platform app, mainly because I don't like any of these JS frameworks and I don't have time to write code twice. I can see that neither Xamarin nor C# are ideal though.

Or skip the app and deploy a mobile website, which is what Google are pushing here.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[UnknownSoldier]

WOW. You're right (https://developers.google.com/web/progressive-web-apps). (Emphasis added.)

Progressive Web Apps are user experiences that have the reach of the web, and are:

Reliable - Load instantly and never show the downasaur, even in uncertain network conditions.
Fast - Respond quickly to user interactions with silky smooth animations and no janky scrolling.
Engaging - Feel like a natural app on the device, with an immersive user experience.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[UnknownSoldier]

Thanks to everyone who pointed out Google's developer pages:

* https://developers.google.com/... (developers.google.com/web/progressive-web-apps/)

Their I/O 2017 talk is online:

* Progressive Web Apps: Great Experiences Everywhere (Google I/O '17)

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, many transit authorities are getting wireless coverage, but that costs money that the authority already is usually in short supply of, and needs to run the buses/trains. Fares *never* pay the full cost of operation. Still, in some markets, wifi on the buses and trains is a necessary feature to get significant ridership.

Alternative some have used is selling concessions, in which case, like at an airport or hotel, you get slow, ad-supported (ad-packed) wifi, and/or the need to register and pay something - is that an improvement, or even acceptable from annoyance and privacy standpoints?

The typical behavior of current web apps on all platforms is to revert to a viewer mode when not connected. Fine if you're viewing; not so good if you're editing. IMO that's a serious failing of Chromebook and low-end 2-in-1 tablets that depend on constant connection for many features. LibreOffice and OpenOffice are both the Right Price and work completely locally in a reasonable amount of storage and RAM, but are not yet fully functional (not sure if OO ever will be) in Android. All signs are that it's Coming Soon, but as with all open source projects Soon has a variable aspect to it.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

O365: must be connected for full functionality.
Office Mobile: must be connected to be any more than a viewer.
Google Docs: must be connected to do pretty much anything.
Adobe Suite: must be connected to do pretty much anything, and must be rented on a monthly payment.
ESRI GIS Suite and many others: must be connected at least to a license server, which may be the vendor's or in some cases within a company's intranet. Nearly all major software that doesn't actually run on a server must connect for license validation EVERY TIME IT'S USED.

Outside of open-source software like LibreOffice, it's hard to find something these days that doesn't at least call home (for authorization to run if not actual code, not just to check for updates) whenever it's used. The whole "app" concept requires access to a server, which is where all but the user interface and some minimal functionality typically resides. Essentially, apps are a bunch of special-purpose web browsers dedicated to one task and one server, rather than something called up using a general-purpose piece of software like Firefox or Chrome. I'm not happy with the clutter that results in my computer; it's a phone thing, really. But it kind of goes against the "browser as the o/s" principle others mention - if everything requires an app, then there's no need for the browser itself other than, perhaps, providing the underlying libraries for the apps (gee, that sounds like MS with IE in past Windows versions...). Walled gardens...many small ones rather than one big one.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[AvitarX]

In NYC it seems to depend on the carrier and the tunnel, but the tunnels definitely aren't all pure dead space from what I can tell in my travels.

I forget the lines now, but I had decent coverage on a couple N/S between Penn and City Hall (I rode 135, ACE, or NQZ depending on my mood and the weather).

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Metro is a failure because MS kept everything too close to home, and they work only in Windows 8-10. "Work" is a relative term: I have a tablet where certain Metro apps (hello Mail) frequently crash the Intel display driver. It's unique (so far) to that device - works OK in a laptop and desktop. But still ... something is not right, as Miss Clavell used to say.

The Good Thing about Google's setup is that it's potentially if not actually cross-platform, not tied to one o/s. That's probably good from a developer standpoint; as with the Java hype, you can build once and run everywhere. To make that real, though, Google should open source the platform. Otherwise, it's another proprietary thing that can be taken away at any time, and Google unfortunately has a reputation for just vanishing things that it's no longer interested in with very little notice. Java, for all its faults and lack of open-sourcing, has at least been maintained and has remained generally available for nearly 2 decades - what's your wager on Google maintaining one of its web app systems for more than a year or 2?

If the browser (or at least its underlying libraries, for app use) is the new o/s, it needs to be maintained like an o/s, with some degree of stability and a lot of attention to backward compatibility. I don't see Google doing that, and their practices have forced the frequent-updates-ignore-compatibility meme on the others.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[AvitarX]

Which city is your last paragraph about?

I have TMobile, not the best coverage, and they have coverage at 4g for at least a 30 Mike radius, and 3g for quite a distance.

I haven't really seen a gprs signal for a few years (3g or dead, no gprs).

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[AvitarX]

Your comment about some systems needing access to get riders seems right on the nose.

A city like NYC where the majority of transit is via subway doesn't need wireless access. The culture accepts you'll be in a dead one when traveling.

A city where a large percentage of the transit is above ground (car or light rail) will need to have coverage for the short underground segments, or nobody will ride them.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[JDShewey]

How are they different?!?! They are progressive you prehistoric luddite.

Re: WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought all Seattle had was dial up and isdn?

Re: WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sideloading? Not every app needs to be for sale.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[93 Escort Wagon]

Seattle's transit tunnel system is using a DAS to provide cellular coverage. We also have an older city-run wifi network at the tunnel stations, which does the same irritating thing you mentioned - it uses a captive portal, and have the time you have to reauthenticate at each station (or did, back before I could just rely on my cellular network).

Right now part of the tunnel system is shared between light rail and busses, but the busses will be vacating by the end of 2018. Hopefully when that happens the county will shut down its wifi network, since they aren't the ones running the trains.

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[walllaby]

Progressive Web Apps are not a replacement for native applications. They are exactly what they claim to be: web apps. If you design your web app by the strictures of PWAs and don't mess with actually declaring it a PWA, well then...you're just left with a nice, fast, regular web app. If your web app requires an internet connection to work (think Twitter, Yelp, etc) then how is this any more draconian than just adding a shortcut to your home screen?

PWA's make a lot of sense when you think about the current state of app development. As a customer, why should I spend twice the amount of money to have an Android app and an iOS app developed when I could just have it written once in JS/CSS/HTML, use PhoneGap/Cordova to wrap it and package it into the App Stores? In fact, why should I mess with the app stores at all when I can just write a PWA? Do you know how much of a pain in the ass it is to prepare and get an app through the approval process?

People are using the mobile web for more an more things every day. Long live the PWA, I say. (Just not for everything!)

Re:WTF is Progressive Web Apps?

[Agripa]

And how are they different from normal web apps?

They are even slower.

WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't post that. Has my account been compromised by Russian trolls?

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't post that. Has my account been compromised by Russian trolls?

Probably, but the Russian trolls have been compromised by Microsoft trolls and that's why they posted this. (sadly, I am actually beginning to believe this; What if Trump is under the control of Putin but Putin is under the control of a bunch of US Oligarchs ... suddenly a whole load of the stuff that Russia does against it's own interest which just happens to support the stuff that the US does against its own interest makes complete sense).

If you don't like a Google API

[Anonymous Coward]

Just wait a week, and it will be replaced with a new one.

Re:If you don't like a Google API

[Hal_Porter]

Yup, Google seem to be going the way Microsoft did once they got too much market share.

As much as despise Apple's overpriced, locked in ecosystem debugging on it is a joy. Breakpoints work for example. On Google's more open ecosystem as someone put it 'Nothing works, everything keeps changing and no one knows why'.

Chromebook's not selling?

[Anonymous Coward]

In related news.....

You still can't get an Android tablet larger than 12 inches, Android.... the most popular OS running on the most devices..... still flips tablets into portrait if you run an app that says "please run me in portrait". It still has no official way to close an app, it still reloads an activity as the official way to handle different screen layouts.... oh FFS.

It's a joke OS.

Designed to run little applets on small memory phones, now it runs on fast octacore hardware with super high res screens, 4gb minimum of memory and an OS that CAN'T EVEN HANDLE RESIZING WINDOWS PROPERLY, it's still unsuitable for porting major apps that Linux runs, simply because Android has these shortcomings that never get addressed.

Instead we get a Chromebook that can run Android applets very badly and they're not selling.

Re:Chromebook's not selling?

[sheramil]

In related news.....

You still can't get an Android tablet larger than 12 inches...

(Measures Galaxy Tab A)

Hey, what's 50cm divided by 2.54?

Twelve inches is enough for most people.

Re:Chromebook's not selling?

[Anonymous Coward]

Galaxy Tab A is a 10.1 inch tablet. Did you mean the Galaxy View? The 18 inch entertainment screen that runs only a HD screen on a low power processor with no stylus support?

Take a look at this:
http://tabletmonkeys.com/new-tablets/

But hey, I'm sure sticking Chrome OS wrapper around Android will fix that.... this is what everyone wanted right? A bunch of new limits, a device that works better with a mouse than fingers/stylus, and has a permanently attacked keyboard forcing the screen to be landscape. But now we can run Chrome OS apps, well Progressive Web Apps or something, I don't know, but everyone wanted that right? That's why they're flying out of shops with big cues to buy these new Chromebooks.

Re:Chromebook's not selling?

[schleimkeim]

It still has no official way to close an app

My guess is that you didn't even bother to check that.

Re:Chromebook's not selling?

[Anonymous Coward]

You guess? Why guess? Do you not know?

In Windows, an app exits when the user selects Exit. In Android there is no exit. App developers have unofficially adopted back back back (till your at the top level) then back again to exit. Some games put an "exit' menu on the top screen, so back back back, then select exit on those.

Other users do 'home' then pull up the most-recent screen, then 'close all' to close the apps running. Google have sort of half adopted that by adding the 'close all', except the MRU list is also used in their multi window as the main way to open another app in another pane. i.e. it's used both as an MRU in that context and a 'running apps' in the 'exit' context. i.e. it's a total fooking mess designed for when Android was intended to run one app at a time in a single stack of nested apps.

So no official way to exit an app, officially you're supposed to leave them running till Android decides to close them. i.e. too soon or too late.

A 'close immediately' exception list on some devices, turns a false negative, failure to close, into an always false positive, close no matter what.
A 'do not close' exception list turns a false positive, accidental close into an always false negative, close never.

But guess away, or you could read the Google page telling you when your app is more at risk of being unloaded, and explain to the client why you sort of can't guarantee the app can continue running. Perhaps try the Foreground notification for a service.... that worked for version 5& 6, but is not reliable in 7.1 which aggressively closes memory hog apps.... i.e. the more complex an app the more likely it is to be killed and the longer it would take to restore it.

What a piece of fooking shit, Android on tablet sucks, and Google are too full of themselves to admit how awful it is.

Re:Chromebook's not selling?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's almost like it was built for ease of use because that's what the majority of people care about, rather than the spregy edge case users wanting to computer janitor every interaction of their pocket computer.

Re:Chromebook's not selling?

[Anonymous Coward]

Twelve inches is enough for most people.

I'm usually told it's too much and to please take it out.

This is why I don't use develop using Google tech

[Anonymous Coward]

So if you made a Chrome app, Google now made your work useless. And what next year? Will they phase out web apps for the new flavor of the year? Google tech doesn't stick and can be abandoned by Google at any moment. I can't build on that.

How would this work for adblock plus?

[Anonymous Coward]

When I think 'web app' I think about a website really that just performs app like actions.

For instance a website that has sliders to let you do HSLA color picking. It goes beyond that really, you can pretty much re-create any desktop app as a website.

So how would that gel with something like a browser add-on which works on the fundamentals of the browser itself like adblock plus or ad block element hider?

Re:How would this work for adblock plus?

[Anonymous Coward]

re-read article, realized my mistake, 4am I can be fuzzy headed, argh

Fantastic!

[Gravis Zero]

I can't wait to transition to PWAs so that one day they can tell me it will stop functioning at the end of the month and all my related data will be deleted. This is much better than the garbage applications that keep working even when you are offline. Honestly, how do they expect to spy on my entire life without internet connectivity?! ;)

Re:Fantastic!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait to transition to PWAs so that one day they can tell me it will stop functioning at the end of the month and all my related data will be deleted. This is much better than the garbage applications that keep working even when you are offline. Honestly, how do they expect to spy on my entire life without internet connectivity?! ;)

Tell you? "Will stop functioning"? You expect advanced notice? Such luxury! When our PWAs stop working you'll know when it's already happened, and we like it that way!

Re:Fantastic!

[Anonymous Coward]

You could say that about any site on the internet.

Re:Fantastic!

[sgrover]

I've looked into PWAs some, but am no expert (yet). From what I see, they have very little to do with Google per se. Your web app declares a service worker. That worker retrieves some pre-cached data to "install" the app (stuff like icons, fonts, etc.). Then as you use your app you can have the service worker cache the retrieved data locally for offline use. Nowhere in that process have I seen "Thou shalt use Google's version of PWAs". It just so happens that the best documentation for PWAs comes from Google postings and Google is trying to control the flow. If I build my app to use a third party resource that can be turned off, that's a bad choice by me, IMO. But adopting the PWA structure does not tightly tie me to any particular vendor. It is a Javascript technique for structuring an app - much like using CSS for styling instead of putting your color/font/positioning markup directly in the HTML. At least that's my take on it thus far.

Re:Fantastic!

[Gravis Zero]

All PWAs rely on retrieving online data and always have an internet connection. The race to the bottom is fast.

Re:Fantastic!

[sgrover]

This statement is not fully accurate. PWAs are meant to address the issue of an application that works fine when connected, but also should continue working when the online connection disappears. By caching the retrieved data and using that, the application can continue to run fine except where new data is needed. A non-PWA approach would just give the standard 404 or service not available error when you try to access the new data. The PWA approach allows that situation to be anticipated and an appropriate error or message given - within the look/feel of the application. So, claiming "All PWAs rely on retrieving online data and always have an internet connection" is not quite right. PWAs work best when the online connection is available, but can degrade gracefully when that is not the case. (If the developers choose to handle the service not available situation - but now it is a choice, not a default)

Re:Fantastic!

[Anonymous Coward]

No they don't, they are installed with an internet connection but then they don't necessarily need any network connections.

Re:Fantastic!

[jon3k]

I had the same position about music. I NEVER thought people would be willing to give up actually having files on a disk that they control, but streaming services have crushed mp3 downloads. So I just assume we've kind of embraced this ephemeral culture and expect we won't see hardly any resistance to progressive web apps, siloed centralized data and no true control over what is created.

Re:This is why I don't use develop using Google te

[bickerdyke]

There is a 99.9% chance that your "web app" was either nothing more than a glorified bookmark that registered an icon in your start menu and did nothing more than redirecting to a regular website. If you actually used javascript running locally, local storage, or other webapp features, that was basically only thenew fancy HTML5 stuff to begin with and that won't go away either, You mostly have to do a boilerplate update.

Re:This is why I don't use develop using Google te

[Anonymous Coward]

You know I just ported a big application to Android 7.1.

It's so flakey now, I cannot guarantee that the background service will continue to run. It gets killed every so often when the OS decides to run Bixby or similar. I have to block the reload of the gui on rotation of the device because a leak in Samsungs stylus in the text edit field makes it run out of bitmap memory (I thought Google would fix this heap by now, but no, it seems not). So I literally have to move existing controls around the screen myself, changing their layout so they are not unloaded and reloaded.

I have to keep the data in a holding service, because Android kills activities and reloads them seemingly at random. Hundreds of megabytes of preprocessed data I am supposed to save in a bundle of "key = graphView, value = 102.23,123.45..,,..." key pairs, then reload when you flip back to the application, then magically stitch the gui and data together in an instant.

I have a module that Art won't compile because its too big.... at 12000 lines, it runs as interpreted code. Seriously it won't compile a class of 12000 lines.

It's so much work keeping up with Google's fucking incompetent shit.

They changed from Eclipse to Intellij development platform..... completely different file layout, unsupported version plugins, and a whole different set of bugs! This one crashes when debugging if it gets confused about breakpoints. This bug has been there for 2 years.

Each change they make is done in a way designed to break the maximum number of applications for the minimum gain. Can you imagine developing a corporate app, where you can't even ensure it will continue to run? Or that it won't be unloaded to reduce the ram footprint.... even if there's plenty of free ram?

Chrome OS was always a noddy OS designed to run webapps, so I have little sympathy for people who developed for that platform. I had hopes that Android would mature into a full OS, instead it's becoming more like Chrome with each change. It's good enough to run a control panel and a todo list and an SMS/messenger app, not much else.

what about....

[Anonymous Coward]

Googles own Remote Desktop and Chronic Recovery tool?

Apps apps? Apps!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apps the apps? What the apps? Apps the apps and the apps will apps so apps you!

Accessing local files ?

[Anonymous Coward]

How to securly access local files (or do privilegied actions) ?
You can probably run a local server that allow access through API but then how do you make sure this is your web app that call the local server ?

Thank god I didnt waste time developing for that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah well, at least I didn't waste my time developing for a short-lifetime 'product'

I'll make sure that I'll avoid it's replacement too. Developing anything for a platform that's going to be dead in a few years is a complete waste of effort for the most part.

I [filter error hack]

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't give a fuck what Google wants.

Re: This is why I don't use develop using Google t

[Anonymous Coward]

That is why Google can't be trusted for the enterprise, they can't stick to anything...

Chrome "APPS"

[mnt]

Chrome "APPS" are just that: Not real apps. More like normal Websites.

Chrome Apps: useless.

AMP: useless.

"progressive" apps: useless.

Googles own fault for coming up with such crap.

Re:Chrome "APPS"

[ColaMan]

I have a Chrome photo editing app called "Polarr" - when I run it under Chrome on linux, it spawns a new window and then looks and behaves very much like its Windows and Android variants.

So it tells me that developers can do some pretty nice things with the technology, but the quickest way to do anything with it (read: monetize) is to just package up some web 2.0 and call it a day.

Progressive?

[Anonymous Coward]

So now the apps will all be socialist? And they will be "progressively" totalitarian like the "democrat" party?

Re:This is why I don't use develop using Google te

[johanw]

Psst, did you know about the targetSdkVersion setting in build.gradle? So you can keep using the OS quirks you like?

java... javascript whats the diff?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, in this case, java IS logically equivalent to javascript, despite what snarky coders commentary

Let me expand here on the issue

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a user, editing a document.

The lifecycle of the document app is... I create it, it is work in progress, maybe I view webpages, check emails and so on while working on it, but it is still there, until I am done, I save it, exit, I am finished with it.

The corresponding lifecycle of the Android Activity for that is: The user creates it, starts editing it, when they switch away this activity will be closed, it needs to try to save all your work, and when you flip back to it, it should attempt to recreate the GUI exactly as the user left it, so the user isn't confused. This closing and attempted restoring will happen many times (even twice during a screen-on due to a lazy bug fix) and looks to the user like the app crashed, but no, it was the OS's normal behavior, killing work in progress is normal for Android. When the user selects Save, they are supposed to leave the activity there in the stack of apps, lingering long after it was finished with. At some point in the future a system app will pop up saying "background idle app put to sleep...." at which point the activity will finally disappear.
Lifecycle of apps needs to be fixed, activities are visual representation of one instance of user editing data and needs to stay in memory until user finishes with that data. If the user isn't finished with it, it shouldn't be unloaded, unloaded is just crashing in a fancy way.

Then there's the layout problem. In the Android model, apps are activities, they are unloaded on rotate or density changes or mode changes or screen off, or switch to other app, and reloaded and set the new layout appropriate to the new configurations. Fantasyland. Really big apps have lots of data powering that GUI, they are not crappy checklists, that layout is a tiny change compared to trying to stick a complex state filled workflow to a gui that keeps getting closed. Each view represents some window onto that complex data. Each view closed is a window that needs rebuilding.

Instead Activities must stay in memory, views must stay in existence, you need a "Activity.reLayout(newLayoutResource, optionalRootId, optionalTransitionAnimator, ...)" to tell the OS to relayout according to the portrait or landscape or whatever layout change is happening. Keep the views, keep the data, relayout just the layout on a layout change FFS.

Don't tell me its for efficiency, if you don't process redraws and user interfaces for a hidden view, they are just things in memory, you waste far more power storing and reconstructing these from your bundles than leaving them till the user finishes with the activity. That claim is just sophistry to defend a bad choice.

Orientation, how many times does it need to be said, that a portrait app is a portrait APP not a portrait DEVICE. Stop rotating tablets into portrait to run phone apps FFS. The orientation of the tablet is the way the user holds it, not the way the app wishes the user would hold it. The app fits the user the user doesn't fit to the app.

Material design man, you have a control panel, I select items, I read top to bottom, and in a modal dialog you've put the accept/cancel buttons at the top, not the bottom. But I still read top to bottom, so the last thing I do is look at the bottom of the screen. It's not even modal, I can switch away and never be aware those buttons existed till I notice the control panel didn't work. Stop it with the arbitrary stylistic crap, your 'pure' Android devices don't sell, pure 'clean' Android is awful. Go look in the bathwater you threw out and recover that baby.

Windows has this legacy windowing system, it works with a mouse and barely usable with a trackpad and is awful with fingers and pretty lousy with stylus when drags are involved. Why copy the awful bits with Chrome OS/Android? Management is in neutral and Android is just rolling along down the hill? Why?

Re:Let me expand here on the issue

[datavirtue]

"Really big apps have lots of data powering that GUI, they are not crappy checklists"

I think the platform, as they usually do, has outgrown the inventor. These mobile platforms were devised as consumer devices by companies that like to use one button or make all of their revenue off a single form field on a blank web page.

Where is Firefox's replacement of XULRunner?

[kriston]

OK, then, now that Chrome is doing the desktop web application more seriously, where is Firefox's replacement of the defunct XULRunner that did essentially the same thing?

Re:Where is Firefox's replacement of XULRunner?

[Anonymous Coward]

XULRunner would probably still be there if they used gladeXML file format (xml that describes Linux GTK apps) instead of creating their own.

Progressive Web Apps

[identity_pi]

I Think progressive web apps are really good. It is really good for chrome apps. Our team in https://www.identitypi.com/ uses chrome apps a lot. especially as extensions. It is good to hear progress.

Re:Progressive Web Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

LOLSPAMMER your certificate expired in 2015. You might want to check that.

Well done for clearly demonstrating that PWA's should be avoided like a disease that's dependent on others configuring their servers correctly. Once the server doesn't work, then users are f*cked.

Re: Progressive Web Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL. Your company doesn't build shit. You put up an affiliate landing page that links to a real website that does all the actual work. You developed nothing. You have 0 extensions and 0 apps. You are a poser. Guarantee you it's Creimer.

Re:Progressive Web Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Except your website (identitypi.com) uses an expired security certificate from 2015, and you are an advertising bot.

Congratulations on qualifying why PWA's shouldn't be used, ever. You can't trust the idiot in control of the server.

How the fuck will I run it offline?

[Anonymous Coward]

Scrape the site and host it on apache? Wtf

Re:How the fuck will I run it offline?

[sgrover]

font, icons, and layout are usually common to all the app pages and can be cached. Now the data retrieved to populate the layout elements can be analyzed and also cached locally if/when needed. Now the web app works fine when offline (just like loading an html file in the browser directly) - except where data needs to be pulled or pushed to an online resource. Pushing the data can be queued, so that side of things can also be handled offline. Getting new data is the one thing the app can't really work around - but it CAN show an appropriate in-app error/warning message that this can't be done right now. Whereas a typical web page/app would just give the default "service not available" error from the browser/os. The heavy lifting is handled by a JS service worker. So a news reader type application could update it's news articles when a connection is available, and then the app could display those articles if the online connection exists or not. Or a time tracking app could collect entries in a queue and then push them to the server when the online connection is restored.

Internet matchmaking for LAN games

[tepples]

Playing a local game? Those don't 'need' central servers and certainly worked before the internets.

Except nowadays, commercial video games need the Internet for matchmaking even if you're playing on the LAN.
<cough>StarCraft II</cough>

Re:Internet matchmaking for LAN games

[Anonymous Coward]

I stand by my original commend I'm afraid.

Games do NEED to use the internet. You want to use an internet game then fine, but it's not *REQUIRED* for a game to use the internet. There are tens of thousands of games out there that do not use the internet, or require the use of it and work perfectly fine without it

Re:Internet matchmaking for LAN games

[JohnFen]

Except nowadays, commercial video games need the Internet

Technically, they don't need the internet. They just force you to connect to their server because they want that sweet, sweet data.

This evil trend of requiring games to be online when there's no good reason for it is what pushed me out of the gaming world.

Re:Internet matchmaking for LAN games

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree about "forced online" with no technical reason for it other than lockin and monetizing, but FYI, there are still many good games being made that haven't gone down that road of idiocy. I support those with my purchase dollars.

(Unfortunately, most people seem to support the forced-online shit and then complain about it later).

Point is, it doesn't have to push you out of the gaming world, only of that particular part of the gaming world that's gone full stupid.

Re:Internet matchmaking for LAN games

[JohnFen]

This is true, but it's a pain to determine which is which. And there are so many older games that are new to me, I'm pretty happy sticking with those.

isn't this Electron?

[smithcl8]

And isn't this something they should be able to do pretty readily?

Delphi X lets you do just that... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Delphi X lets you do just that for all "major platforms" https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/ & so does C++ for that matter!

* Better performance by FAR too!

APK

P.S.=> Totally w/ you on that note FunkSoulBrother... apk

Re:Delphi X lets you do just that... apk

[tepples]

Why does the Delphi store show "Add to Cart" without a price?

Go for it.

[JohnFen]

I don't use Chrome apps, and I won't use "progressive web apps", either.

Datavirtue this *MAY* interest you... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Datavirtue this *MAY* interest you https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=11444449&cid=55687783/ as far as Linux is concerned especially!

APK

P.S.=> Delphi X "does it all" for the major platforms out there & in 32/64-bit... apk

Re:Thank god I didnt waste time developing for tha

[Anonymous Coward]

html will be dead in a few years ? I Don't think so.

Re:This is why I don't use develop using Google te

[datavirtue]

No way these web apps are going to last. Just thinking about developing one makes my skin crawl.

Re:This is why I don't use develop using Google te

[datavirtue]

Take a look at Xamarin Forms. It abstracts away a lot of those problems to someone else and lets you focus on developing an app. ...and your app works on other platfroms without much fuss.

Re:Thank god I didnt waste time developing for tha

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, and I wasn't arguing that. But 'PWA's hopefully will die. There have been many attempts, and they're all shit and ultimately had little take up. This attempt will be no different.

Almost full circle?

[Anonymous Coward]

So it's an application running in a kind of sandbox that does hardware abstraction.
Doesn't Java does the same already?

slashot breeds idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

while you're at it, why not tell us about why you think anyone cares

Re:slashot breeds idiots

[JohnFen]

I think that you care because you went to the effort to reply to my comment.

Re:slashot breeds idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that you care because you went to the effort to reply to my comment.

I take the time to scrape dog shit from my shoes, too, so I think you are dog shit.

What is the difference

[DarkRookie]

What is the difference between this and a local HTML file. I am very confused on the difference.

Re:What is the difference

[sgrover]

The concept is similar. The difference is that a PWA is intended to be just another web application, but can continue to function when the online connection fails. It does this by caching application elements, using queues to send data back to the server (the queues can be processed when the connection is restored), and gracefully telling the user that a connection is not possible without breaking the look/feel of the application. Yes there are some things the app can't do when disconnected, but that is just a planned state now, rather than the default "I have no choice how to handle that" state. Because the manifest file defines what is needed to get started, your web app can now run locally without the UI of the browser. (i.e. empty window with only your web content). To the user it appears as a local application. To you, you have a single code base that runs on all mobile platforms looking like native apps, and the desktop in the traditional sense. So responsive with steroids. What data your application needs cached, or even if caching is a good thing is up to you as the developer. Not all applications will fit the PWA concept nicely, but I believe most do with a little thinking.

Would you prefer "Join our mailing list"?

[tepples]

If you repeatedly ran into screens like the following, would you find it still "worth the trade-offs"?

GNU/Linux: Buy Now
Windows desktop: Buy Now
Android: Buy Now on Google Play Store
Your preferred platform: Join our mailing list to be notified when the crowdfunding campaign begins

Ask them... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Can't debug it here (& you're SMARTER than that). May be their site OR your end!

* Object Pascal's ALMOST all C++ is (iirc, only 'multiple inheritance' lacking & is that actually applied in the REAL world?) & easier.

Replaced MSVC++ & VB as my favs via VBPJ 1997 Oct issue "Inside the VB5 Compiler" (VB5 given a 'watered-down' MSVC++ 5.0 compiler minus loop unrolling but did better vs. interpreted code via runtime VBRUN*.DLL & MSVC++ has some runtime interpreting going on (forms)) WINNING 4/6 tests & MOST IMPORTANT in what EVERY PROGRAM DOES (by double in MATH & STRINGS work).

Does SINGLE TRUE .exe VCL statically compiled 1 piece .exe files (I love it).

APK

P.S.=> 'Starter' edition = FREE (enough to do apps like APK Hosts File Engine 10++ 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/ (only in 32-bit mode though)... apk

Re:Ask them... apk

[tepples]

Using a different browser at a different location, I see prices. But neither Starter nor Professional appears to support X11/Linux. Only Enterprise (roughly $3000 per seat) does.

Like hearing about the cancellation of a TV series

[rbrander]

...that I never watched.

Glad you worked it out (knew you could)

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & FreePascal & it's Lazarus IDE do the job on most all the platforms Delphi does - Especially Linux (almost a PERFECT doppleganger of Delphi & code compatibility is VERY good from what I've heard tell of it)

* I use X4 build (not X10) - does the job for my "favorite pet project" & you KNOW what THAT is & I actually don't intend to port it to other platforms (I could though OR let others do so, but I've been THREATED by trolls here they would create an EFast Google Chrome malicious copy IF I "openSORES'd" it).

APK

P.S.=> Yes, the price of admission's high (I can't afford it now but I could when I was still working FULL time as a professional dev, but I retired (much higher bills now in this point in my life is why & I already have what I need to "get the job done" on my hobbies (which ARE for the good of others for a TRUE "absolute good"))... apk

Re: I HATE NIGGERS

[Anonymous Coward]

It is ok to be white. It is not ok to be a racist shithead or a xenophobic asshole. Enjoy your day good sir.

I want a web where...

[mnt]

google does not spy on your life AND internet is free and uncensored, everywhere.

this would free us from the need of another google "invention" that goes down the drain in one or two years.

Power of PWA

[SanaAbraham]

Try accessing Flipkart.com or Zomato.com. It feels like you have opened the app, though it’s not the app that you have installed on your phone, it’s just a PWA. Few attractive features of PWA are 1) Responsive- Compatible with any device (desktop, mobile, tablet, including the ones yet to come). 2) Progressive- Work for all users irrespective of their browser choice. 3) Connectivity-Work Offline or on poor networks. 4) Up-to-date- the service worker update process ensures current, with offline Quoted from this article: https://codeburst.io/pwa-vs-am... A Native App is developed specifically for a particular mobile device, customized for the operating system and other device configuration, and installed directly to the device, usually through app stores. A crucial consideration, to be taken upfront, is whether to opt for native apps or web apps https://www.fingent.com/blog/n...