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Russia-Linked Accounts Were Active on Facebook Ahead of Brexit (ft.com)

The Russia-linked troll farm that used Facebook to target Americans during last year's election was also active in the UK ahead of the Brexit vote (Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; alternative source), the social media company has admitted. From a report: In a letter to the Electoral Commission, Facebook said accounts associated with the Internet Research Agency spent $0.97 for three ads in the days before the EU referendum. These ads appeared on approximately 200 news feeds in the UK before the country voted to leave the EU last year. For months the social media company has sidestepped questions from MPs and journalists about Russian interference through its platform in the UK. The concerns were fuelled by revelations this summer that Facebook had been weaponised by Russian entities before the election of US President Donald Trump. France and Germany have said their elections were also targeted. "We strongly support the Commission's efforts to regulate and enforce political campaign finance rules in the United Kingdom, and we take the Commission's request very seriously," Facebook said in the letter.

128 of 254 comments (clear)

  1. 75p's worth by rapiddescent · · Score: 2

    That's about the same value as a can of coke has been spent on pre-brexit facebook ads. Either, the spend was much better hidden (see how the vote leave campaign channelled GBP625,000 through a 23yr old student) or brexit was not endorsed or funded by the Russians and simply fuelled by the stupid.

    1. Re:75p's worth by Chrisq · · Score: 2

      simply fuelled by the stupid.

      We certainly have enough of those in the UK.

    2. Re:75p's worth by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The ads were only a small part of the problem, the main one was fake accounts. Russians pretending to be ordinary British people.

      It's a very powerful technique, more so than obvious ads. That's why it's banned, companies aren't allowed to do it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re: 75p's worth by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      The Electoral Commision has concluded that Russian influence had very little effect so if you know differently I'd get in touch with them urgently. I think you're overestimating the power of social media to influence the over 60s.

      I don't think Putin had much to do with it though. Brexit to me is a purely British fuck up driven by xenophobia, a hankering for the days of Empire (while forgetting how truly terrible the days of Empire were for most of the people of this country and the rest of the countries we invaded) and a relentless campaign of lies by large sections of the British press. The Remain campaign were also pretty useless with Project Fear instead of trying to talk up all the advantages of being in the EU.

    4. Re: 75p's worth by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      I haven't (yet!) read that book.

      But... Isn't it pretty much standard for governments to try to socially destabilize their geopolitical rivals? Are there governments that *don't* do that?

    5. Re: 75p's worth by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Brexit to me is a purely British fuck up driven by xenophobia

      Uh no. It's driven more by things like mass rape gangs in multiple cities by "asians" where the councils lean on the police to do nothing, because both groups are afraid of being labeled as "racist" if they arrest them. Or the pre-teen girl who was charged under hate crime laws for calling her rapist a bad name, but her rapist wasn't charged. Or muslims running amok with "sharia zones" and the police doing nothing. It's driven far more by unhindered and unrestricted migration and people being driven out of their old towns and cities by enclaves of migrants.

      In short, it was driven by people who like their country and want their country to remain their country. Not a country where it's nothing but one enclave to another and you're likely going to be beat up for walking hand-in-hand with a person of the same sex.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    6. Re: 75p's worth by wickedwitchofwest · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, all the media, the politicians and intellectuals wanted to stay in. It was only the stupid that wanted to come out. So the fact that people objected to a non-elected, bureaucratic elite in a foreign country ruling them, even though the same elite haven't managed to get their accounts passed in years, beacause millions are lost with no paper trail to say where it went. The same bozos now want us to give them 39 billion without anything in return. So despite that, you think those that voted to come out are stupid?

    7. Re: 75p's worth by wickedwitchofwest · · Score: 1

      Oh right, just blame the elderly for having worked, bought houses, paid taxes and saved. The post war generation wasn't provided with enough schools, universities, and now we are the baddies. In 1946 the Government was told to invest Ni money to provide for the pensions of this generation, but they wasted it on wars on behalf of US, and now it's all our fault, right, you must be right, because our truthful government told you so, you prat!

    8. Re: 75p's worth by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      What will leaving the EU do to change the disinterest of the UK authorities in the fate of poor people? Jimmy Savile abused more children on his own than these rape gangs and no one gave a shit about that either. That's not going to change just because it'll be harder for Polish people to come here.

    9. Re: 75p's worth by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Actually it's voting for Thatcher and Brexit that mainly did it, along with kicking the ladder away on your way up with the introduction of student loans and protecting your housing assets.

      A boomer told me that the environmental damage done by pollution had been "worth it". For his generation perhaps, not for us lot who have to live with it and clean that shit up.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  2. "200 news feeds"! by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Only 200 news feeds, that's less then the average shot of a kitten falling off a sofa or a half-decent restaurant meal. Really if that's all they managed they aren't very good hackers, the effect would have been almost non-existent.

    1. Re:"200 news feeds"! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Note that the article (or maybe the source, Facebook) refuses to mention anything about the content of the ads. This is very similar to the "Russia-linked Facebook ads influencing the 2016 election" whose details were hidden for as long as the media could manage.
      Eventually, it came out that those ads were supporting Black Lives Matter and Hillary.
      The silence from the BBC and Facebook is a pretty strong indicator that the paltry advertising attempt was in support of the remain vote.

    2. Re:"200 news feeds"! by maybe111 · · Score: 2

      because they want to back off of brexit, they need to find as many reasons as possible

    3. Re:"200 news feeds"! by Ferretman · · Score: 1

      Eventually, it came out that those ads were supporting Black Lives Matter and Hillary.

      Good point indeed....

      Ferret

      --
      Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
    4. Re:"200 news feeds"! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      So far the vast majority of identified Russian fake accounts have been leave supporters. It makes sense, Russia's goal is to weaken and destabilize it's enemies and that's exactly what has happened. Remaining would have been much less beneficial to them.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. You guys are all nuts by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Everyone who thinks Facebook has the power to persuade people of ANYTHING are insane. When has it ever changed YOUR mind? It's the ultimate echo/thunderdome chamber where everyone only agrees with each other or causes pain, no actual change takes place there...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re: You guys are all nuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      so like slashdot

    2. Re: You guys are all nuts by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Life is like a long useless meeting. Nothing gets done and nobodies opinion gets changed.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re: You guys are all nuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      so like slashdot

      Slashdot changed my opinion that Linux users were all a nice set of logically-thinking geeks.

    4. Re:You guys are all nuts by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      When has it ever changed YOUR mind?

      . . . if Facebook can control your mind . . . would they let you know about it . . . ?

      Maybe you're just a brain in a Facebook vat somewhere . . .

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    5. Re:You guys are all nuts by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter if it's making people more caustic (which it is), what it is NOT doing is changing how people vote at all, which is what is claimed by pointing out Russia was somehow "on Facebook" for Brexit and the US Election.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    6. Re:You guys are all nuts by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      It probably won't change anyone's political orientation, but that's not the point. Almost all political campaigning focuses on two points:

      1. Re-enforce your base's opinions and get them motivated to actually take action.
      2. Depress your opponent's supporters.

      Facebook is a giant network of echo chambers. It's ripe for exploiting, taking the above model of political campaigning and ramping it up exponentially.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    7. Re: You guys are all nuts by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Systemd did that for me.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:You guys are all nuts by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      what it is NOT doing is changing how people vote at all

      That is a grotesquely ignorant view. You do not need to change political opinions to affect the democratic process.

      First of all, I agree that a typical Facebook post will not change a person's beliefs. Most opinions are too deeply ingrained to be overturned by a single argument---no matter how well-formulated.

      However, agitation can affect voter turnout. If you systematically provoke one side and demoralize the other, you can cause a change in the distribution of votes without changing the underlying voter preferences.

      Obviously, you could offer the argument that choosing not to vote is an entirely separate decision. But if that is the case, then why do both parties in the US run "get out the vote" campaigns? Because voter engagement and turnout are as important as their actual political preferences, if not more so.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
  4. Re: Moscow Donald is going to prison for TREASON by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The new norm: When the election result doesn't suit the powers that be, blame the Russians.

    What, the US and UK didnt think the same political manipulation that they use to keep poor countries poor would ever hey used on them?

    Fuck em both.

  5. Up next on slashdot by the_skywise · · Score: 2

    Russia-linked accounts were active on facebook before global warming.

  6. 97 cents worth of ads??? by Nova+Express · · Score: 4, Insightful

    97 cents??? You're doing an entire Slashdot post about 97 cents worth of ads????

    More than $140 million was donated to the Clinton Foundation by Uranium One board members and associates, but no, let's focus on 97 cents worth of ads.

    The left's newfound Russia Derangement Syndrome is beyond parody.

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

    1. Re:97 cents worth of ads??? by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      It is outrageous and so are most /. posts about it.
      There still is some antidote being published though.
      Today: https://consortiumnews.com/201...

    2. Re:97 cents worth of ads??? by slshdtisctrldbysjws · · Score: 1

      The left's newfound Russia Derangement Syndrome is beyond parody.

      Indeed it is. A joke that is taken too seriously is a lie. A lie taken too seriously is a crime. This is a crime. We must all start standing up against it.

      --
      My karma was manually wiped by site staff https://slashdot.org/~slshdtisctrldbysjws 18 mod up, 10 mod down = bad karma
    3. Re:97 cents worth of ads??? by Ksevio · · Score: 2

      The Uranium One conspiracy has been thoroughly debunked by now, but the Russian interference is ongoing and still relevant. Clinton isn't even a public figure these days, but Trump is president (in part due to Russian interference).

      The right's newfound Russia Defending Syndrome is beyond parody.

    4. Re:97 cents worth of ads??? by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      The deal 100% existed, no one disputes that. Obviously you didn't click the link to see the Fox News video explaining what went down.

  7. Who stands to win? by h8sg8s · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Who stands to win by the Balkanization of the World's most stable organizations? When the EU, NATO, the USA and other large/multi-national organizations fall, Russia, still smarting from the fall of the USSR, can rise in prominence. Putin already tried putting Humpty back together, tearing down everyone else is a parallel strategy.

    --
    Organization? You must be joking..
    1. Re:Who stands to win? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Russia today has an economy the size of Australia...bunch of geldings reminiscing about their balls. The biggest threat they present is their technicians or engineers getting jobs in nations that are actual threats.

      A less American centric NATO isn't a benefit to Russia. Rather the opposite. Russia's direct neighbors are LESS likely to tolerate their bullshit than America is.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Who stands to win? by Freischutz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Russia today has an economy the size of Australia...bunch of geldings reminiscing about their balls. The biggest threat they present is their technicians or engineers getting jobs in nations that are actual threats.

      A less American centric NATO isn't a benefit to Russia. Rather the opposite. Russia's direct neighbors are LESS likely to tolerate their bullshit than America is.

      And here I was thinking that he biggest threat Russia poses consists of ~7000 nuclear warheads.

    3. Re:Who stands to win? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Nothing about that has changed. MAD remains in force. They aren't going to use them. At this point, it's not a practical geopolitical force.

      Unless they get so broke they start selling nukes for vodka money.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:Who stands to win? by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      That is their biggest threat, and it's serious. I still don't know whether you were thinking though. They also have a small economy and it is relevant. They're not some miracle power which is going to conquer Europe and take over the US.

    5. Re:Who stands to win? by h8sg8s · · Score: 1

      No, but "encouraging" the tribalization of all the other powers has the same effect.

      --
      Organization? You must be joking..
    6. Re:Who stands to win? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is just a long overdue karma payback. Before the Balkans fell to the Turkish hordes in the 1400s there were two countries there only - Byzantium and Bulgaria in the south, east and central balkans. Back then both Byzantium and Bulgaria were empires. Bulgaria back then covered a significant portion of what is present day Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, and was bordered by Black, Aegean and Adriatic seas. It was powerful enough to force the Hungarians to relocate form their northeast border to their northwest border and to have Byzantium periodically pay reparations.
      When Russia fought the Ottoman empire in the late 1800s, the powers to be - France, England, Austria, did not allow Bulgaria to be restored into original borders. Instead Macedonia, Albania were seeded, Romania and Austria and Turkey were given a lot of territory on the balkans that was never ethnically occupied by those countries, Serbia which resulted from a local Bulgarian vassal warlord who managed to hold out a small territory. Even at the beginning of the invasion Genoans and Venicians (present day Italy) ferried over the turks between Asia and balkans, for a "protection" from invading the Italian peninsula. As far as I am concerned all affected and nato members are from countries who were either actively creating and complicit to the separation of the balkans and turning neighbors and neighbors. Their karma called back.

      On the other hand, Scottish and Catalan accounts were also active on Facebook in the weeks before Brexit, in the weeks after Brexit and any other week since Facebook existed for that matter. Accounts from Andorra were also active, as well as accounts from Norway, and any other random country in the world in that same broken logic that the title alludes to.

      Even American-linked accounts were active on Facebook ahead of Brexit. What does that say - exactly nothing!

    7. Re:Who stands to win? by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      What, another one of those miracles?

    8. Re:Who stands to win? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Thing is, although Russia benefits from Brexit (due to it greatly damaging and weakening the EU) so does the UK.

      So any Russian involvement is mostly irrelevant anyway.

    9. Re:Who stands to win? by Alypius · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind Lord Islay's maxim about the purpose of NATO: "Keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down."

    10. Re:Who stands to win? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      When the Germanys were reunited, all of Europe was discussing what to call the 'new Germany'. Except Germany, they were discussing what to call France (Western Greater Germany) and Poland (Eastern Greater Germany).

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    11. Re:Who stands to win? by Alypius · · Score: 1

      Ismay, not Islay. Stupid Scotch. *hic*

    12. Re: Who stands to win? by Alypius · · Score: 1

      I'm interested to know at which point you consider history to be irrelevant.

  8. Re:Jesus, give it up by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

    I know it's en vogue to blame Russia for all things non-liberal but this shit is getting ridiculous. Russia hacked the Election, Russia hacked Brexit, Russia killed your puppy, Russia forced Harvey Weinstein to jerk off in front of women, Russia made my wife cheat on me...

    Fuck off all of you.

    Yeah, but this is the problem of money in politics. A country like Russia has vast money to pour into a campaign like this, and there's no way average people can come up with a dollar to combat this insidious advertising campaign.

    Seriously, though, someone's getting this upset over less than a dollar? The left is beyond parody at this point.

  9. Point Up by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    EXACTLY like Slashdot, but with better Emoji support and no UID digits to tell you who to respect.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  10. The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I voted for BREXIT. Here's why

    Outside the EU with a Canada type deal the UK would have control over

    1) Immigration. Inside the EU we have to accept free movement of EU citizens. Not just to come to work, which I have no problem with, but also to claim benefits which I have a large problem with. And, more subtly, being inside the EU means we have to sign up to the ECHR. Article 8 of that makes it almost impossible to deport criminal, non EU aliens. Also if the UK is in the EU, it cannot refuse EU migrants and immigration is unpopular it instead clamps down on non EU ones. I've got a lot of friends in non EU countries who have tried and failed to get UK work permits because of this, despite the fact that they'd get a job and pay taxes if they moved to the UK. Many EU migrants end up in low pay jobs and are not net taxpayers because they depend on Working Families Tax Credit, Housing Benefit and so on. I.e. the EU is a source of cheap labour but that labour is subsidised by the taxpayer.

    2) Trade. Inside the EU we need to have tariffs on non EU imports. Outside the EU we don't - we could sign free trade agreements with the US for example, which is our largest export customer. There's the Commonwealth, Asia and so on. Trade with the EU is important, but it is declining in importance. Also even without a Canada type deal we have a trade deficit with the EU. I.e. we buy more than we sell. So if tariffs are imposed on trade both ways we can use the tariffs we collect to pay our exporters tariffs.

    3) Internal regulations. If you trade with another country, your exporters need to comply with their regulations on goods they export. Unfortunately the EU goes much farther than that - the EU wants to be a state and to regulate even intra country trade. Outside the EU that wouldn't happen.

    4) Democracy. Democracy works if you vote for a government, that government makes policy and then you vote again. In the EU that process is broken because there are things you can vote for - controls on immigration for example - which the EU will block. In the run up to BREXIT Cameron asked for a delay between new immigrants arriving from the EU and being able to claim benefits but was slapped down. Meanwhile Merkel unilaterally admitted 'Syrian refugees' who turned out to be mostly not Syrian and not refugees. Since Germany controls the EU, the EU didn't bat an eyelid. In fact the EU is still trying to impose a quota system on EU countries to accept their 'fair share' of the migrants Merkel invited into Germany.

    5) Defence. The EU wants an army and to be a state. The UK has traditionally seen NATO as being the security organisation, and the EEC and then EU as being about trade. Leaving the EU with a Canada type agreement keeps tariffs off trade but removes us from getting sucked into the EU's aspirations at statehood. Even a WTO deal isn't too bad for the reasons mentioned in 2)

    6) Money. The UK makes a net contribution of £10billion per year. Outside the EU we'll probably have to pay a divorce fee of around £40billion or so. However after that we'll only contribute to programs which are in the national interest. Norway is not an EU member but is a single market member and makes per capita contributions of around 1/7 what the UK does.

    Of course the Remoaners want you to think it's all a Russian plot. Nope. There was a referendum and you guys lost.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    1. Re:The case for BREXIT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Europe is 55% of the UK exports, Asia is 22% and NA is 18%.
      Europe is 61% of the UK imports, Asia is 22% and NA is 12%.
      Data : https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/
      Norway pays about 2/3 the single-market contribution per capita than the UK (£140 in Norway, £220 in the UK).

    2. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2

      Why can immigrants even claim benefits?
      Can't you tie that to being a UK national?

      Not inside the EU.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

      In February the Commission started a furious row with Westminster after claiming that Cameron's plan to ban foreign migrants from receiving benefits unless they earn a minimum of £149 a week are illegal.
      The Commission threatened to take the British Government to court after claiming it was illegal to define a "worker" according to the amount he or she earns is not compatible with EU law.
      A source close to Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary hit back: "We're absolutely confident the changes are legal as well as right."

      Inside the EU it's illegal to treat the citizens of other EU countries differently than you treat your own citizens.

      Of course if the UK leaves the EU that ceases to be an issue. The Canada EU free trade deal doesn't force either party to accept citizens of the other coming to claim benefits.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    3. Re:The case for BREXIT by lazarus · · Score: 1

      I enjoy your posts.

      As long as you don't weaponize space...

      I agree completely with your stand on Brexit, although I am not in the EU and so am an outside observer. My overall feeling of what was happening in the EU was that it was (is) a bureaucratic nightmare where everything had to be brought down to the "weakest link" in the union. The problem with humans and any of their constructs are that people will always do as little as possible, or get away with as much as they can (to paraphrase Plato). So if the EU makes it possible for one of their members or the constituents of those member states to "coast along" then they will do it.

      The UK will be fine. We invented trade agreements for these purposes.

      --
      I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
    4. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Norway pays about 2/3 the single-market contribution per capita than the UK (£140 in Norway, £220 in the UK).

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

      Nor is membership of the EEA without costs, she points out. Through it, Norway contributes €340 million a year to the EU - despite neither being a member, nor having any voting rights. Were the UK to leave the EU, its annual contribution through the EEA might fall to just €2 billion from the net contribution of €11.6 billion it makes at present.

      http://researchbriefings.files...

      EEA countries also make annual financial contributions to the EU in return for access to its single market. Over the period 2009 to 2014, Norway is providing almost €1.8 billion through the EEA and Norway grants to efforts to reduce social and economic disparities within the EEA (The UK's estimated net annual contribution to the EU budget was £8.1 billion in 2011 and £6.9 billion in 2012) The EEA and Norway grants were negotiated in parallel with the negotiations on improved market access for seafood, which is an area where the EEA Agreement does not provide for full market access.

      I.e. Norway's contributions are substantially less than they would make as a full EU member.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    5. Re:The case for BREXIT by magzteel · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but your rationale means nothing to the "People who voted for Brexit didn't know what they were doing" crowd.

    6. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I enjoy your posts.

      As long as you don't weaponize space...

      Thanks. I'm not in the position to weaponize space personally, though I can see the arguments for the US doing so.

      My overall feeling of what was happening in the EU was that it was (is) a bureaucratic nightmare where everything had to be brought down to the "weakest link" in the union. The problem with humans and any of their constructs are that people will always do as little as possible, or get away with as much as they can (to paraphrase Plato). So if the EU makes it possible for one of their members or the constituents of those member states to "coast along" then they will do it.

      Another cancerous thing about the EU was that it wanted to have one set of rules across the whole region. The problem is the way countries apply the rules varies wildly. Essentially the EU benefits countries with a weak rule of law because they will simply ignore inconvenient rules. Same with ones which are politically powerful. So France and Germany ignored the Eurozone 3% deficit rules and no one dared challenge them. Then Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain did it in a much more openly fraudulent way - Greece for example hired Goldman Sachs to cook the books for them and hide the extent of their deficit - and when knowledge of that became public it almost brought down the Euro. Even now Greece might default and leave the Euro.

      Meanwhile in countries like the UK - which whatever its faults has a fairly strong rule of law - the rules hit people hard because there's no institutional ability to ignore the inconvenient ones.

      I.e. it gives the more corrupt an advantage over the less corrupt. In the long run this will cause corruption to spread.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    7. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      If you have a referendum and millions of people vote, it's fair to assume that most of them are doing so based on arguments that I would personally consider very unconvincing. On both sides.

      To me it came down to the 'What's the chance of the EU refusing us a trade agreement? What do we do then?". The answers being "Not very high" and "We use the tariffs we collect on imports to pay the tariffs of exporters".

      Once you see that then obviously it's better to have sovereignty and the chance to set rules on immigration, trade and defence through normal democratic means rather the EU's Byzantine system where we nominate a Commissioner, all the Commissioners collude and get lobbied, the EU Parliament mostly rubber stamps it and the end result in a law which we have to implement even if it is incredibly unpopular. Which a lot of EU laws are in the UK.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    8. Re:The case for BREXIT by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I voted for BREXIT.

      Out of interest, what did you think would happen with the Irish border?

      And, more subtly, being inside the EU means we have to sign up to the ECHR. Article 8 of that makes it almost impossible to deport criminal, non EU aliens.

      Brexit has little ot do with that. ECHR is a separte thing and exiting the EU won't take us out of the ECHR. Also, Article 8, the right to a privacy?

      And third, it's false. We can and do deport people all the time.

      2) Trade. Inside the EU we need to have tariffs on non EU imports.

      Half truth: We need to have tarriffs on non EU imports for which tarriff free trade has not been agreed. Not all non EU imports have tarriffs.

      Outside the EU we don't - we could sign free trade agreements with the US for example, which is our largest export customer.

      False, the EU is our largest single export market. Second that will likely involve having weaker regulations on product safety, e.g . cars.

      We vote for the EU MEPs and the council are drawn from our elected MPs.

      Claiming it's not a democracy because the people you voted for did something you don't like is facile.

      . In fact the EU is still trying to impose a quota system on EU countries to accept their 'fair share' of the migrants Merkel invited into Germany.

      The EU is not, Germany is. And it never happened, so you voted BREXIT for something that never happened?

      5) Defence. The EU wants an army and to be a state.

      Some people proposed it, it went a bit forward then it stopped. What you're intentionally ignoring is that the UK like many others would have a veto on such a thing, so it would never go forward unless our government said OK.

      contributions of around 1/7 what the UK does.

      False.

      https://fullfact.org/europe/no...

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    9. Re:The case for BREXIT by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Out of interest, what did you think would happen with the Irish border?

      I figured it'd remain open, including free movement of (Irish) people, and customs provided at source and/or destination not at the border.

      ECHR is a separte thing and exiting the EU won't take us out of the ECHR.

      He maybe meant the ECJ. I'm keen that we no longer come under ECJ but also very keen that we remain within the European Convention on Human Rights as guided by ECHR.

      The EU is not, Germany is. And it never happened

      Nonetheless, we already have a full country. Being unable to prevent further immigration while Germany is wide fucking open to all and sundry would only lead to further pressure on housing, public services, wages, etc.

      Some people proposed it, it went a bit forward then it stopped.

      Stopped? No. https://www.express.co.uk/news...

      I look forward to the great war of 2032 in which the USA, Britain and Russian ally (again) against European hegemony by the Germans (with France this time).

    10. Re:The case for BREXIT by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      He maybe meant the ECJ.

      Great so he voted not knowing which institution was which.

      I'm keen that we no longer come under ECJ

      So, not keen on a trade deal with out largest export market then?

      Nonetheless, we already have a full country. Being unable to prevent further immigration while Germany is wide fucking open to all and sundry would only lead to further pressure on housing, public services, wages, etc.

      FFS we have no obligation to take in non EU citizens who have emigrated to Germany.

      Stopped? No. https://www.express.co.uk/news...

      That article is a pile of doublespeak.

      We already have tons of joint defense agreements and that has nothing to do with an EU army. And what part of the "the UK had the veto" do you not understand?

      I look forward to the great war of 2032 in which the USA, Britain and Russian ally (again) against European hegemony by the Germans (with France this time).

      Great, another delusional Brexiteer. Is there any other sort?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    11. Re:The case for BREXIT by Cederic · · Score: 1

      So, not keen on a trade deal with out largest export market then?

      We do not need the ECJ to rule on British law and governance to trade with Europe. Stop fucking pretending otherwise.

      That article is a pile of doublespeak.

      Well, it is The Express after all. But feel free to hunt out one of the others. Shit, you'll be telling me next that the EU's goal isn't a big European superstate.

      Great, another delusional Brexiteer. Is there any other sort?

      The cynical type with a dark sense of humour - something you're clearly lacking.

    12. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Out of interest, what did you think would happen with the Irish border?

      Pretty much what is happening - the UK and the EU will do a deal.

      Brexit has little ot do with that. ECHR is a separte thing and exiting the EU won't take us out of the ECHR. Also, Article 8, the right to a privacy?

      Right to family life, inter alia.

      102 foreign criminals and illegal immigrants we can't deport - More than 100 foreign criminals and illegal immigrants have beaten deportation under controversial "right to family life" laws in the past year.

      Inside the EU the EU will no doubt argue that ECHR membership is a condition of EU membership

      http://researchbriefings.parli...
      "Opinions differ as to whether a Member State can withdraw from the European Convention and remain in the EU, given that the EU Treaties specifically refer to the human rights guarantees in the Council of Europe instrument."

      In the PDF file the EU Commission claimed

      "Respect for fundamental rights as guaranteed by the European Convention on Human Rights is an explicit obligation for the Union under Article 6(2) [now Article 6(3)] of the Treaty on European Union, and the Court of Justice has held that the Convention is of especial importance for determining the fundamental rights that must be respected by the Member States as general principles of law when they act within the scope of Union law. The rights secured by the Convention are among the rights guaranteed by the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. In the negotiations for the accession of new Union members, respect for the Convention and the case-law of the European Court of Human Rights is treated as part of the Union acquis. Any Member State deciding to withdraw from the Convention and therefore no longer bound to comply with it or to respect its enforcement procedures could, in certain circumstances, raise concern as regards the effective protection of fundamental rights by its authorities. Such a situation, which the Commission hopes will remain purely hypothetical, would need to be examined under Articles 6 and 7 of the Treaty on European Union."

      Article 7 is about suspending countries from the EU

      http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/w...

      "Where a determination under paragraph 2 has been made, the Council, acting by a qualified majority, may decide to suspend certain of the rights deriving from the application of the Treaties to the Member State in question, including the voting rights of the representative of the government of that Member State in the Council."

      I.e, the EU Commission is making a clear threat it might suspend UK voting rights, such as they are given we're the state most often in minority, if the UK leaves the ECHR but stays in the EU.

      False, the EU is our largest single export market. Second that will likely involve having weaker regulations on product safety, e.g . cars.

      http://www.worldstopexports.co...

      US is the top country. The EU is not a country, even though it wants to be one. And, like I say I don't expect the EU to impose tariffs on UK exports. And even if they did we've got a trade deficit and using the tariffs we collect on imports to pay the tariffs of exporters is not against WTO rules.

      I.e. we could get lower tariffs on exports to non EU countries with most likely no net tariffs on exports to EU ones.

      If we have the power to sign our o

      --
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    13. Re:The case for BREXIT by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Pretty much what is happening - the UK and the EU will do a deal.

      Oh you're one of those "brexit means brexit" morons. Saying "we will do a deal" is basically saying "something will happen".

      No shit!

      I didn't ask you *if* you thought something would happen I asked you what you thought WHAT would happen.

      However you're a Brexiter. That means you didn't think about what would happen then and you seem incapable of doing so now.

      Be specific because it's only the specifics that matter.

      102 foreign criminals and illegal immigrants we can't deport

      Ah I see you've changed your tune from "almost impossible deport criminals" to "there are a small number of people we can'r deport", without breaking stride.

      That is exactly the kind of duplicitious I have learned to expect from Brexiteers.

      US is the top country.

      Irrelevant. The EU bargains as a whole as does the US. In terms of export markets, the EU is the largest. It takes a perticular kind of perverse stupidity to pretend it's otherwise. But, I'd expect nothing less.

      If we have the power to sign our own trade deals with for example the US regulations become something we negotiate.

      Given how the entire world will know we're desperate for trade deals I'm sure that will go reaaaaallly well.

      "The "real battle" over relocating migrants is just the beginning,

      IOW it hasn't happened but you votes as if it had. Well done!

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    14. Re:The case for BREXIT by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      I don't live there but I certainly don't blame you for voting for it, I think it was the right decision.
      I got a British passport through my parents, although considering what has hapenned to the place in the last 40 years since they left it? I kind of feel like the passport I have is mostly worthless.

    15. Re:The case for BREXIT by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      We do not need the ECJ to rule on British law and governance to trade with Europe. Stop fucking pretending otherwise.

      we need whatever the EU will agree to. If they don't agree there is no deal and stop fucking pretending otherwise.

      Well, it is The Express after all.

      You posted it knowing it was doublespeak.

      But feel free to hunt out one of the others.

      I'm not going to scour the internet to back up your lies, thanks. You have to do the work if you want to have any credibility.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    16. Re:The case for BREXIT by Falconhell · · Score: 4, Informative

      So, when the traffic is jammed from the chunnel to Machester waiting for customs, hows that going to work out for you.
      There is no way the EU will allow the UK to stay in the Union without the EUCJ.
      You brexiters really are a fairly dim bunch.
      As an expat watching from outside the whole area, its depressing to see the UK shoot itself in the foot with a whole rack of shotguns.
      The whole case for Brexit was based on lies, the list goes on, but lets start with 350 million pounds a week for the NHS.
      Any deal the UK gets will be either devastatingly punative, or situation same as before, with the same problems, but now you will have no say at all in Europe.
      Heres a question for you, when a deal is made, do you support a referendum be held to vote on accepting it?
      Im betting you dont, as you know that having realised their mistake on not voting in the first place, the voters would reject this dribbling idiocy, that will reduce the UK to third world status.
      You say the EU is not a country, ignoring the fact that when it comes to trade, they are all under the same laws, effectively acting as one country, sorry that doesnt suit your nutty narrative, or are you just a liar like most of the Brexshitters?
      We saw the writing on the wall in 1970 and got the hell out of a country that has now exported its best and brightest, and is left with its worst and dumbest, just like you.
      Hal, heading for the cliff edge, foot firmly jammed on the throttle, crying "there is no cliff"
      Sad.

    17. Re:The case for BREXIT by Cederic · · Score: 1

      we need whatever the EU will agree to. If they don't agree there is no deal and stop fucking pretending otherwise.

      You're acting as if 'no deal' is a bad thing.

      It's a fucking marvellous thing. That shouldn't stop us looking to do better, but I'd much rather have no deal than a shit deal.

    18. Re:The case for BREXIT by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      You're acting as if 'no deal' is a bad thing.

      Yes. Everyone with half a brain realises it.

      It's a fucking marvellous thing. That shouldn't stop us looking to do better, but I'd much rather have no deal than a shit deal.

      Well that's pretty stupid. You ought to rather have no deal than something worse. Refusing to take something better than no deal out of self-defeating spite is precisely the kind of stupidity I'd expect from a Brexiter.

      And what, precisely do you think will happen with the Irish border with no deal?

      Spoiler alert: you're a Brexiter so you never actually thought about, well anything!

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    19. Re:The case for BREXIT by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Yes. Everyone with half a brain realises it.

      Well that's pretty stupid. You ought to rather have no deal than something worse.

      Tell me, do you even realise you're contradicting yourself?

      Refusing to take something better than no deal out of self-defeating spite is precisely the kind of stupidity I'd expect from a Brexiter.

      That reflects on your own ability to judge people and understand them than it does on the people you're failing so miserably to understand.

      Shit, I even made it easy for you and explicitly stated that we shouldn't avoid making a deal that's better than not having one.

      And what, precisely do you think will happen with the Irish border with no deal?

      Frankly exactly the fucking same as will happen with a deal. Free movement of Irish people, no barriers at the border.

    20. Re:The case for BREXIT by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Tell me, do you even realise you're contradicting yourself?

      u wot m8?

      We'll likely get a shit deal, but make no mistake: even a shit deal will be better for us than no deal.

      You on the other hand would pick the worse path just out of spite. The EU aren't stupid: they will offer us something better than no deal, but it won't be very good.

      That reflects on your own ability to judge people and understand them than it does on the people you're failing so miserably to understand.

      Every Brexiter I've spoken to has been a fool. Maybe I simply haven't spoken to the right ones, but of the ones I've spoken to I understand just fine.

      Frankly exactly the fucking same as will happen with a deal. Free movement of Irish people, no barriers at the border.

      And of goods and services?

      It's like you haven't got a clue what a border even is!

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    21. Re:The case for BREXIT by Cederic · · Score: 1

      You on the other hand would

      Please, stop embarrassing yourself. You've demonstrated repeatedly that you haven't a hope of predicting what I would do.

      Every Brexiter I've spoken to has been a fool.

      Hmm. What's the common denominator here. Wait, maybe we should look at this another way.

      It's like you haven't got a clue what a border even is!

      If by that you mean that I don't have a closed mind about what a border must look like, then you're correct. A border between two countries can manifest in multiple forms, including being completely wide fucking open.

      Tell me, how many customs officials do you see when you get out of a rubber dinghy on Brighton Beach? Because that's our fucking border with France, Holland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and sixteen other nearby countries.

      Reply if you like but I wont be reading it. You literally aren't worth my time.

    22. Re:The case for BREXIT by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      1. We could have had immigration controls on EU citizens. Other countries did, limiting numbers for the first few years, and it worked. The Labour government chose not to.

      Similarly, EU migrants can't claim benefits right away and can be asked to leave if they are unemployed for a few months. We choose not to enforce the latter at all.

      Now that EU citizens are leaving, we don't have enough doctors and nurses. Will Brexiteers volunteer to wait for British staff so that the rest of us don't have to wait longer?

      2. You propose paying companies like Nissan to offset the tariff costs. Aside from being state aid that even under WTO rules is problematic, it means that every company that exports can forever demand compensation.

      Also, did you hear Honda's statement to the Brexit committee? 30 minutes of stock, hundreds of trucks from the EU with parts every day. Border controls will be a huge problem and the government hasn't even started to build new truck parks or recruit the tens of thousands of staff they need.

      3. These regulations have been good for us. Do you really want to work longer in worse conditions too? In any case, if we drop them, trade becomes harder. It's called a non-tariff barrier.

      4. As demonstrated by our own parliament in the last year, the EU is much more democratic and is actively reforming and improving, unlike us.

      6. As we will find when we leave, our "net contribution" actually gets us a lot more back in terms of trade and joint cost savings. For example, we will have to run our own medicine approval agency, at our expense.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    23. Re:The case for BREXIT by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Tell me, how many customs officials do you see when you get out of a rubber dinghy on Brighton Beach? Because that's our fucking border with France, Holland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and sixteen other nearby countries.

      Are you simple?

      Even fucking North Korea has unguarded breaches and one border is covered in mines.

      You've also apparently been ignoring the news that the border with Ireland has been a major sticking point. the only way of passing it was to promise regulatory compliance throughout the UK to Ireland which means the EU.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    24. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Oh you're one of those "brexit means brexit" morons. Saying "we will do a deal" is basically saying "something will happen".

      Calling people morons didn't work out too well for you before the referendum. What makes you think it will work now?

      Ah I see you've changed your tune from "almost impossible deport criminals" to "there are a small number of people we can'r deport", without breaking stride.

      Article 8 means you can't deport foreign criminals if they've lived with someone, or claimed to live with someone for two years or more even if they aren't married provided they claim to have had sex. That's absurd.

      https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/...

      Where a person makes representations after the commencement of enforcement action, on the basis of a common law or same sex relationship, the normal course will be to proceed to enforcement action unless it is clear that the couple had lived together for 2 years or more before enforcement action commenced and that the parties are not involved in a consanguineous relationship with one another.

      As even 'ukhumanrightsblog' points out "there are undoubtedly some difficult issues to be approached in relation to the European Court of Human Rights' somewhat expansive interpretation of Article 8".

      t was heartening to hear the Home Secretary read out Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights in full during her speech. More politicians should go back to the source to explain what the law means. And there are undoubtedly some difficult issues to be approached in relation to the European Court of Human Rights' somewhat expansive interpretation of Article 8.

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    25. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      So, when the traffic is jammed from the chunnel to Machester waiting for customs, hows that going to work out for you.

      The UK doesn't want tariffs. And if the EU imposes them and the UK retaliates they'd have exactly the same problems we have. Spoilers : They're bluffing and they won't actually go through with it.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    26. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Funny thing is people like him arguing like that probably swung the referendum vote for BREXIT.

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    27. Re:The case for BREXIT by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Oh, yet another brexshit deusion, who has the biggest market by far again, oh yeh, the EU. They will male it hurt bad.
      The UK tarrifs wuld be an ant trying to bite an elephant. Bluffing? Crickey, even for a brexshitter you are dumb as a bowling ball.
      Lols at the AC, im not that smart, didnt go to uni, just not stupid enough to believe the likes the excerable BoJo and Farage.
      Enjoy your life in a third world shithole.

    28. Re:The case for BREXIT by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Yeh, brexshitters hate the truth and reality. Ive met smarter mice.

    29. Re:The case for BREXIT by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Another delusional brexshit lie, they are not bluffing, they have all the power, you are a small part of their market, and they a large part of yours. The stupidity of the likes of you never ceases to amaze, its going to be fun watching the slide to third world shithole status.
      Youre there already in the cricket, now the rest can catch up.

    30. Re:The case for BREXIT by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Awww, did I trigger AC snowflake. Didnt go to uni, not super smart, just not brexshit dumb as a bowling ball smart.

    31. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1
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    32. Re:The case for BREXIT by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      World Bank report here

      http://documents.worldbank.org...

      This paper analyzes the short-term fallout of trade in goods from Brexit, through potential changes in the trade policies of its main trading partners. We construct the Overall Trade Restrictiveness Index (OTRI) of the UKÃs major trading partners.2 Our analysis shows that in the absence of any trade agreement between the UK and the EU post-Brexit, facing the EU's Most Favored Nation (MFN) tariffs could cause the UK's export of goods to the EU to drop by 2 percent. The impact is not larger because the higher tariffs are placed on the less elastic products that the UK exports, while the lower tariffs are placed on the more elastic products that the UK exports

      See also Ruth Lea on the likelihood of a deal and the fact that trading under WTO rules isn't all that bad in the absence of one

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/...

      The prospects for a bespoke deal are, therefore, reasonably positive. But, if there is no bespoke agreement, then the default position would be that the UK, a member of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), would trade under WTO rules. The UK would, for example, face the EU Common External Tariff as EU exporters would face the tariffs adopted by the UK. There is, however, convincing evidence that trade can thrive under this regime, given favourable commercial circumstances. Preferential trade deals may oil the wheels of international commerce, but their importance should be kept in perspective. If the commercial circumstances are adverse, trade will not thrive, irrespective of special trade agreements.

      ...

      In the absence of any agreement with the EU, imports from the EU will raise £12.9bn for the Treasury in duties, whilst UK exporters will face £5.2bn in total in tariffs on their exports to the EU.
      WTO rules on subsidies provide sufficient flexibility for the Government to implement "horizontal" programmes to mitigate the impact of tariffs. Such programmes are economy-wide measures which are not specific to any identifiable industry, and are not tied in principle or in practice to compensating for the exact cost of tariffs on exports.

      I.e. as much as you wish for the UK to be devastated because Brits had the temerity to want to have self government, it's very unlikely to happen.

      I.e. it turns out independence isn't as expensive as people like you claimed it would be. Make no mistake though, even if it were I'd still support it.

      --
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    33. Re:The case for BREXIT by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Youre cherry picked quotes ignore the vast number of economists that predict a disasterous result for the UK.
      Mumbo jumbo about self rule is simply laughable, it seems the likely result will be taxation without representation, unless you are happy with Northern Ireland becoming mired in violence once again.
      However, brexshitters have little connection with reality, so Im guessing your right wing wet dream will continue.
      A last question, are you willing for a final decision to go to another public vote, or do you like most brexshitters, live in fear of losing now the outright lies of your side are revealed?

    34. Re:The case for BREXIT by Falconhell · · Score: 1
  11. Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Brannon · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      lol this guy is quoting snopes as if it was still credible

    2. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Informative

      That snopes article is full of so many inaccuracies that even World Weekly News wouldn't publish it. It also doesn't detract from the parent posters point that U1 dumped large sums of money to the Clinton's. Or that large parts of that uranium are now MIA, right off the fucking grid. Figure that one out, because it sure entered Canada and managed to get out of the country but nobody knows where it went. There's an on-going investigation here in Canada because it should have been something that was picked up by the ports.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You might want to read the big fat correction at the bottom of your own link:

      On 17 October 2017, The Hill reported obtaining evidence that Vadim Mikerin, a Russian official who oversaw the American operations of the Russian nuclear agency Rosatom, was being investigated for corruption by multiple U.S. agencies while the Uranium One deal was up for approval — information that apparently was not shared with U.S. officials involved in approving the transaction. The Hill also reported receiving documents and eyewitness testimony “indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow”

    4. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm on your side, but the article you linked to is trash. All little 'gotcha' and get-out-of-jail-free trick bullshit. As a lefty I feel that Clinton is part of the problem. This article reinforced that belief. And that 'progressive' media has a garbage problem just like the idiots at fox. Show some fucking backbone y'all.

      Wait, isn't this a tech site?

    5. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Informative

      This covers some of it. There's a bunch of other crap relating to it you can find on thehill who've done a good job documenting it. Also includes FOIA'd documents(via judicialwatch) from during the Obama era showing that the previous administration along with the state dept., knew something was afoot and ignored it, or were so inept they simply let it happen.

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      Om, nomnomnom...
    6. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Ferretman · · Score: 1

      Um, Snopes is just about the least credible "source" imaginable. Think of it as Breitbart but on crack.....

      Ferret

      --
      Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
    7. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Could be worse. He could have quoted his own blog created to push his own agenda as a source...

    8. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Um, Snopes is just about the least credible

      Source for that claim?

      "source"

      Ah, I see why you're confused: Snopes is not a source. Hope that helps.

      Think of it as Breitbart but on crack.....

      Snopes has a comments section that's at least an order of magnitude worse than Breitbart's? I'm pretty sure you'd have to invent a new physics model to make that a reality.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    9. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Binestar · · Score: 2

      I like how you quoted everything in that big fat correction except the last sentence. Since it appears your computer can't handle a full paragraph worth of copy/paste, I'll paste it here for you:

      "In any case, none of these revelations prove that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton participated in a quid pro quo agreement to accept payment for approval of the Uranium One deal."

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
    10. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      Snopes is no longer to be fully trusted as they once were unfortunately, their reputation is now tarnished with some (deliberate) inaccuracies for the sake of political correctness.

    11. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      The didn't "prove" that Clinton is guilty of graft, because Bill had a meeting with Loretta.

      That last statement is not a "fact". It is an opinionated red-herring.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    12. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Binestar · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but if "In any case, none of these revelations prove that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton participated in a quid pro quo agreement to accept payment for approval of the Uranium One deal." is not a statement of fact, then show me where it was proven that those revelations showed Clinton participated in a quid pro quo.

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
    13. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Who cares about that ancient history? Trump supported a PAEDOPHILE! And what about all the women he sexually harassed? Or that terrible Xmas video his wife made?!

      See, we can do what-about-ism too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My favorite is the "False" on the story about Clinton getting off the pedophile as a lawyer, and later laughing about it.
      It's apparently false because:

      1) She didn't get him off completely, he got a probation
      2) She was just a lawyer, not the judge
      3) She didn't blame the girl or destroy the evidence, she merely "represented the client"
      4) She didn't laugh about it later, she "chuckled"

      That's some epic fact checking right there...

    15. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Ancient history huh? Guess that's why democrats got down on their hands and knees and defended bill clinton right? Oh and bill and hillary also went to epstine's private pedophile island nearly 50 times before he was arrested.

      See, this shows just how ignorant of the world you really are. Maybe you should watch less TV, and pay more attention to the absolute shit-show going on in the UK, like people being arrested for mean tweets.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    16. Re:Or maybe you're a lying piece of garbage? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Nope, I'm making a point. If you can't figure out why the democrats turned around, but are suddenly all over this you're simply ignorant of politics in general. Then again, shall we really go down the "what-about-ism" which shows that you really don't want to deal with issues that exist and were swept under the rug, that you did "what-about-ism" in the first place when you started screeching "TRUMP" oh boy, anything to deflect for the democrats huh? Maybe less john oliver for you?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  12. Not really a problem. by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Uh, the article says that they located Russians buying three ads totaling about a dollar.
    That's not really a problem.

    also, logically, Russians meddling in a British elections would not be treason-- treason would have to be by citizens of the same country.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re: Not really a problem. by Bruha · · Score: 1

      You really believe the amount. Seems absurdly low.

    2. Re:Not really a problem. by hey! · · Score: 1

      Uh, the article says that they located Russians buying three ads totaling about a dollar.

      Because that's all they would have done. They'd have bought just those three ads then they'd have said to themselves, "Job done!". That's how government foreign agencies roll: they're all about individual initiative, not doing things in large, centralized, and bureaucratic ways.

      All kidding aside, finding that first piece of evidence of an intelligence agency psy-ops effort is like seeing that first cockroach in your kitchen. Sure you step on it, but you don't assume you've got them all; you always assume there's more. Likewise once you've seen evidence that a government with substantial intelligence capabilities has done *anything* to covertly sway an election, you've got to assume they've at least made a credible effort.

      Now it's possible that this is purely a social media operation, consisting of media buys and troll farms and the like -- but even so they must have done more than buy three ads. And we can't assume that doesn't extend to recruiting and directing local stooges, because *that's* how they roll, at least traditionally. Us too, for that matter. But even if we think it's OK for us to meddle in foreign elections, that doesn't make the the people on our payroll over there loyal to their country.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  13. Re:Anyone looking into the AL election? by Freischutz · · Score: 1

    I can't help but wonder whether these Russian fake news accounts were online and active trying to get Roy Moore elected in the special senate race. Trump would have likely requested Putin to try to tip this one too in his favor.

    No, Putin has re-allocated all his election rigging assets to the nor important task of rigging the upcoming Russian presidential elections.

  14. Can we please stop pretending by nagora · · Score: 4, Insightful
    That Russia is the only country that does this, or that the CIA and MI6 don't have people working away doing the same thing? It's a bit pathetic.

    Darling: So you see, Blackadder, Field Marshal Haig is most anxious to eliminate all these German spies.

    Melchett: Filthy Hun weasels fighting their dirty underhand war!

    Darling: And, fortunately, one of *our* spies--

    Melchett: Splendid fellows, brave heroes, risking life and limb for Blighty!

    --
    "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
    1. Re:Can we please stop pretending by dbrueck · · Score: 1

      Amen! (great quote, BTW)

      The hysteria plus the hypocrisy really is pathetic. Seeing the US in such a tizzy... the Russians are probably like, "that was the best 60 rubles we ever spent!"

    2. Re:Can we please stop pretending by superwiz · · Score: 1

      Except it's not clear who is "us" and who is "them" here. The only thing that Russia has been realistically accused of was exposing criminal behavior by the operatives of the Criminal Democratic Party. I don't see why we should be anything but thankful that they did it if they did. But whoever exposed the Criminal Democratic Party deserves a medal.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  15. CIA linked accounts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How many CIA linked accounts were active on Facebook?
    How many CIA linked accounts are still active on Facebook?

    1. Re:CIA linked accounts by superwiz · · Score: 1

      CIA employees have every right to express opinions about US elections. BBC, however, is funded by the British government. NY TImes' largest shareholder is a Mexican national with close ties to the Mexican government.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    2. Re:CIA linked accounts by najajomo · · Score: 1

      "CIA employees have every right to express opinions about US elections"

      What about the CIA/MI5 inspired dossier that targeted a serving US president in an attempted coup.

    3. Re:CIA linked accounts by superwiz · · Score: 1

      The fact that a British intelligence officer's help was enlisted in swaying a US election seems like a clear admission of everything that the Russian would-be conspiracy is supposed to have done. It's enlisting of foreign agents to sway US elections.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  16. The wouldn't matter at all by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    1. Re-enforce your base's opinions and get them motivated to actually take action.

    That would be great but the only thing Facebook excels at is de-motivation.

    2. Depress your opponent's supporters.

    Which Facebook does not really manage to do At All.

    If everyone is in an echo chamber, then it's impossible to depress anyone. But on the flip side, you get all so beguiled by the echo chamber you do not need to do anything so if anything it makes it less likely you will take real action... Facebook is a tool for pacification, not for riling people to action.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:The wouldn't matter at all by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      That would be great but the only thing Facebook excels at is de-motivation.

      Uh, read (2)

      Which Facebook does not really manage to do At All.

      Wait, you just said... did you read what you literally said one sentence before that?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  17. Re:The 9/11 attack cost something like $250k by magzteel · · Score: 1

    and look at the massive impact it had. $125k ads goes a long way with conspiracy-minded right-wingers who will share and re-tweet without a second thought to its truthiness.

    Of course left wingers only share and re-tweet factual stuff. Right.....

  18. Re:Have to admire Russia/china by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Fox is downplaying Russia's and CHina's impact on the west esp where it concerns Trump/GOP.
    As such, it means that you are way wrong.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  19. Re:Anyone looking into the AL election? by KiloByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah right, Chechnya voted 99.8% for his party with 99.7% turnout, not long after Putin waged two wars against them. Think about how many votes Lincoln would get in the South the next election had he survived the assassination.

    You're used to vote fraud meaning a few tens of invalid votes. On the other had, Russia didn't have a remotely fair election anywhere in its history: not by the tsars, not during the revolution, not by the soviets, a close shave by Yeltsin, then fully back to normal by Putin. Same in puppet countries they conquered (most recent example in Crimea).

    “I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.” -- Joseph Stalin

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  20. Were? Are. by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Seriously, can't you see them when they pop up, they're not even that good at creating profiles and they don't even understand how humans link to each other in the real world. Fake posts liked by other fake profiles and commented on, but they repeat the exact same posts in a specific cycle, and the same comments.

    If you can't detect that, get out of security, because you've failed.

    And you're off by a factor of 1000, by the way. There are more.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  21. What is our budget comrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    $0.97
    Excellent!! Proceed with operation Brexitfix!
    Mwuhaahaaahaaahaaaa!

    1. Re:What is our budget comrade? by Alypius · · Score: 1

      "$.97? Eh, here's five more bucks. Go do it and bring back popcorn."

  22. Definition by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Uh, read (2)

    Demotivation is DISTINCT from depression. And you are ignoring the de-motivation happens in the echo chamber, NOT for opponents.

    Wait, you just said... did you read what you literally said one sentence before that?

    Can you please read what I wrote instead of what you think I wrote?

    TRANSMISSION END

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Definition by jbengt · · Score: 1

      I believe that it's you who has misinterpreted the intent of the phrase "depress your opponent's supporters".

  23. in other news by superwiz · · Score: 1

    BBC was actively opinionating on US elections. BBC is not registered as a foreign agent. BBC is funded by the British government. Great Britain is not part of the US nor is it a US territory. This is open foreign interference in US elections which has been happening for close to 100 years.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  24. Re: Moscow Donald is going to prison for TREASON by Alypius · · Score: 2

    You clearly failed civics class. Go back and read up on how impeachment and the line of succession works.

  25. Is this real? by cazzazullu · · Score: 1

    Even the summary reads like an onion story. Is this a joke, parody, or do the editors truly want to share this news on this website with this audience? Some probably russian-related actors bought three ads for the amount of ONE dollar..? This is background noise. You can probably find even more adds of Pakistani people trying to influence the elections in Portugal

    --
    int main(void) {while(1) fork(); return 0;}
  26. So sick of this Russia bullshit by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

    What does Occams razor say?
    Was there a huge coordinated group of people, effortlessly injecting fake news, creating stores, posting comments across the entire internet in an attempt to sway massive elections involving millions of people, many of which wouldn't even use a fucking computer.

    OR

    Did people just vote what they thought best?

    The far left have gone off the bloody deep end. Don't tell me, it's *.white *.males fault some how?

  27. Re: Anyone looking into the AL election? by Shotgun · · Score: 1

    Look at the map, and you'll see that most of 'Bama is sparsely populated farmland. Look at the politics, and you have a candidate for the majority party being accused of child molestation. The minority party tends to do better is special elections, because the base for that party feels under siege. In this election, the minority party would be especially up in arms, in a special election which tends to have a VERY small turnout.

    I wouldn't expect fraud to be needed for Jones to win.

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  28. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  29. Russia spent less than a dollar on Facebook .. by najajomo · · Score: 1

    "If Theresa May is certain Russia is ‘meddling’ in British democracy she obviously knows some seriously cheap advertisers. It just emerged Russia spent 73p ($0.97) on ads to influence the Brexit referendum. How much influence can you buy for 73p?"

    "Well, for a start, probably not a lot because the Facebook ads were about migration and the wider European context – and not Brexit. And then there’s the fact less than £1 was spent." link

  30. Re: Jesus, give it up by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

    Vladimir Putin dropped his trousers and took a shit on my front lawn! There are witnesses!

  31. Re:Nothing to see here. by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

    ok ivan