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Norway Becomes First Country To Switch Off FM Radio (thelocal.no)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Local Norway: Norway on Wednesday completed its transition to digital radio, becoming the first country in the world to shut down national broadcasts of its FM radio network despite some grumblings. As scheduled, the country's most northern regions and the Svalbard archipelago in the Arctic switched to Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) in the late morning, said Digitalradio Norge (DRN) which groups Norway's public and commercial radio. The transition, which began on January 11th, allows for better sound quality, a greater number of channels and more functions, all at a cost eight times lower than FM radio, according to authorities. The move has however been met with some criticism linked to technical incidents and claims that there is not sufficient DAB coverage across the country. In addition, radio users have complained about the cost of having to buy new receivers or adapters, usually priced around 100 to 200 euros. Currently, fewer than half of motorists (49 percent) are able to listen to DAB in their cars, according to DRN figures. According to a study cited by local media, the share of Norwegians who listen to the radio on a daily basis has dropped by 10 percent in one year, and public broadcaster NRK has lost 21 percent of its audience.

34 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. Patent? by harrkev · · Score: 3, Funny

    Do they use the same patent-laden system as here in the US, or is there a chance to use an open decoder?

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    1. Re:Patent? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      Hmm...do we have DAB in the US?

      This is actually pretty much the first I've heard of this...

      Intentional pun?

      Well, even in Norway, where they do have it . . . it seems that a lot of folks will not hear it either. Too bad that a lot of cars won't get traffic reports any more.

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    2. Re:Patent? by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Informative

      The US standard is HD Radio, which is a proprietary system (not merely patent encumbered, it's controlled by one company and uses things like a custom audio codec that's similar to, but not identical to, AAC-HE) and it remains a mystery as to why the FCC blessed it, as it was opposed by most of the industry and, like I said, is proprietary.

      It is not the same as either of the European standards (they have one for FM, and one for AM). The system has one advantage over Europe's DAB for FM system, in that each station can transmit an analog signal and two or more digital channels over the same frequency. The first digital channel is always a digital version of the analog channel, while the others are alternative audio stations.

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    3. Re:Patent? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hmm...do we have DAB in the US?

      This is actually pretty much the first I've heard of this...

      Intentional pun?

      Well, even in Norway, where they do have it . . . it seems that a lot of folks will not hear it either. Too bad that a lot of cars won't get traffic reports any more.

      Digital radio suffers a big drawback. Unlsee the received signal is pretty much perfect, you are greeted with very high fidelity silence. It's called the Digital cliff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      An analog FM signal slowly fades over distance. A digital radio signal is fine one moment, than nothing, and the nothing happens at a much closer range. As well, there is no advantage bandwidth wise.

      Unfortunately, as soon as most people hear "digital something", they immediately assume it is better. Not always. So Norway has switched to a radio system with less coverage.

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    4. Re:Patent? by Strider- · · Score: 2

      Your crystal set radio also doesn't work with FM broadcast either, only AM.

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    5. Re:Patent? by caseih · · Score: 3, Informative

      Dunno about you, but I find XM radio audio quality to be terrible. Sounds like 48 kbit MP3s. Talk channels are even worse.

    6. Re:Patent? by schnell · · Score: 2

      Remember that this, like almost everything else in life, is a case of trade-offs and "some win, some lose." You may be on one side or the other but some use cases/users will benefit and others won't. It's almost never purely black and white - if you think about both sides of the story.

      Short version: more than half a century ago, interested organizations - ranging from the military to railroad networks to local police/fire to nascent TV/radio broadcasters - were all given broad swathes of spectrum. This was is low frequency bands because that has a great signal propagation over long distances or through buildings, and because it was all (except for TV) narrowband - there wasn't much more to send than voice.

      Everything was of course analog rather than digital, which means that a weaker signal just gets fuzzier and fuzzier until it goes out. It worked well for everybody - the people in areas far from a broadcasting tower just got fuzzier radio or needed to get a roof antenna for their TV.

      Flash forward to thirty years ago, though, and digital shows up. Digital makes vasty more efficient use of spectrum than traditional analog signals. You could, for example, take one patch of VHF (in US terms) signal channels and instead of lots of people watching one TV channel over analog TV, thousands of people in one LTE cell site area watching a thousand different shows over Netflix. And a thousand different people watching a different thousand shows in the next cell tower over.

      But a digital signal is on/off, so those with a receiver outside a certain area are out of luck. So we have winners and losers. Those getting signals from cellular/TV/radio towers inside a certain area get more service. Those further away get less.

      If you assume that there are more people getting more/better service from more digital towers, then this is a win. If you look at the edge cases, it's a loss. It's purely a situation of "where you sit is where you stand."

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    7. Re:Patent? by cats-paw · · Score: 2

      Digital radio suffers a big drawback. Unlsee the received signal is pretty much perfect, you are greeted with very high fidelity silence. It's called the Digital cliff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      well not exactly. the BER rate degrades smoothly with signal level which degrades smoothly with distance. The problem is that if you lose enough bits you get nothing, whereas with FM you just get more static. also it doesn't have to be "pretty much perfect", whatever that means, that's why there's something called error correction.

      An analog FM signal slowly fades over distance. A digital radio signal is fine one moment, than nothing, and the nothing happens at a much closer range. As well, there is no advantage bandwidth wise.

      the fading is due to loss of signal strength at distance. there is no "FM fades slowly over distance", the signal, regardless of analog or digital, fades slowly over distance as 1/r^2.

      it's only a really shitty radio where "nothing happens at a much closer range.". generally that's impossible. at much closer range the signal strength goes up, BER goes down and life is good. So i'd really like to see a system that does that without it being the result of a shit radio that can't do automatic gain control properly, because that sounds exactly like a shit radio with a bad AGC implementation.

      You've made broad generalizations that absolutely aren't true in practice. There are definitely advantages to digital radio implementations.

      However if you are going to compare a digital to analog radio you absolutely have to get into the details of the radio implementation and what kind of performance you are expecting.

      --
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    8. Re:Patent? by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 2

      We don't have DAB in the US. We have HD Radio instead, which is a completely different system.

      DAB and its successor DAB+ replace the analog signal with a digital one. Much like digital TV, the DAB broadcast can carry multiple channels of audio. DAB uses the not-very-good MP2 codec; DAB+ replaces it with HE-AAC. The standard for the transmission stream is published by ETSI.

      HD Radio augments the analog signal with digital subchannels. They are broadcast in pedestals on both sides of the analog carrier (they look like noise on a spectrum display), and those pedestals can wipe out reception of stations on adjacent channels. (That's only rarely an issue on FM, but it's a much bigger deal on AM radio which also has a version of HD Radio.) HD Radio uses a non-standard proprietary codec and the format of the transmission stream is also proprietary. Because only part of the channel is used for digital data, an HD Radio channel carries fewer digital subchannels than DAB+ does.

      There are two reasons that probably drove the FCC's approval of HD Radio. One is that it coexists with analog broadcasts rather than eliminating them. The other is a bias in favor of locally developed technology, something that also informed the choice of ATSC television rather than DVB-T.

  2. Sounds Rough by Thelasko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some car audio systems are extremely integrated into the vehicle. They may be stuck with a nonfunctional radio for years.

    I know people who are still complaining about the digital TV transition here in the US, because they used to be able to get a weak signal with analog, and now they get nothing. Sounds like Norway is having the same problem.

    They should have transitioned this over ten years like digital TV in the US.

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    1. Re:Sounds Rough by Kjella · · Score: 2

      They should have transitioned this over ten years like digital TV in the US.

      Actually it was more like 22 years:

      The DAB standard was initiated as a European research project in the 1980s.[1] The Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK) launched the first DAB channel in the world on 1 June 1995 (NRK Klassisk)

      Long story short, they bet on the wrong horse because with 3G/LTE/5G data transmission you can listen to anything. Most people are unsatisfied with DAB, it's a broadcast solution for a unicast present and future. And the actual broadcast needs like emergency transmissions etc. were better covered by FM. It's the radio companies pushing through a transition that is now unneeded because they've got huge sunk costs that would otherwise be worthless. And quite a few customers have been suckered in too. They play it out like we're the first of many but I'm guessing we just went down a dead end.

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    2. Re: Sounds Rough by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Informative

      I still don't know why cars need their own cellular service rather than just tethering off the phone that nearly everyone has inside the car.

      A cellphone inside the car body has only a fraction of the receive sensitivity of a system with a proper antenna mounted outside the vehicle. Transmit suffers likewise. So the answer as to why is "way better performance."

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  3. This is political, not technical by Viol8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DAB has worse battery life than FM, a shorter reception range for the same TX power, and often (depending on bit rate and codec) poorer audio quality. No one was asking for it, its purely politicians grandstanding and looking like they have their finger on the pulse of technology. Also the FM band being 30Mhz wide - less bandwidth than a modern ethernet cable - isn absoltely not use for modern data comms so it can't even be sold off for that to raise money.

    I suspect all that will happen is legal broadcasters lose listeners hand over fist especially in car, and pirate radio takes over the FM band.

  4. You can take my FM receiver . . . by frankenheinz · · Score: 2

    . . . when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. (Sansui 3000A tuned to KCRW)

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    1. Re:You can take my FM receiver . . . by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Funny

      . . . when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

      (Sansui 3000A tuned to KCRW)

      No one is trying to take your receiver. It's the transmitters that are changing. You're welcome to keep your receiver that no longer receives anything.

      --
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    2. Re:You can take my FM receiver . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

      You're welcome to keep your receiver that no longer receives anything.

      Well, if your beloved KCRW goes dark . . . just buy an FM transmitter, and produce the program yourself:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Since you would be the DJ, you can then even call yourself up on the radio telephone number, and have a heated debate with yourself.

      Oh, and every few months or so, hold a pledge drive, and beg folks for money in exchange for some radio station hats.

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  5. I hardly listen to FM anymore by jlowery · · Score: 2

    but that's because of Spotify and online news feeds. I expect because of that, the U.S. has seen a comparable drop in FM listeners.

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  6. What was broken about FM radio? by cybersquid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Remember the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

    1. Re:What was broken about FM radio? by should_be_linear · · Score: 3, Informative

      It is wasteful. You can replace 1 FM station with 13 DAB+ stations. Anyway, I would encourage switching to full 4G internet coverage everywhere, which enables infinite TV and radio capacity, among other things.

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    2. Re:What was broken about FM radio? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

      Yeah sure great idea! Then we can all pay, pay, PAY for everything, all the time, or receive NOTHING! Screw that. Radio is FREE, that's the whole point of it. Knock it off with this 'streaming' crap already, don't you see it's a trap?

    3. Re:What was broken about FM radio? by MountainLogic · · Score: 2

      As others have stated, simple FM has amazing range and noise resistance due to all the redundant information. The redundancy in various DAB type signals, even with all of DAB noise correction, is minuscule compared to old FM. Denmark is a small flat county, but where I live near Seattle the mountains, hills and distance between stations often kills even simple FM. When you destroy the bandwidth like they did for digital TV and range do to a fraction of what it was with analog. - My experience anyway.

    4. Re:What was broken about FM radio? by amorsen · · Score: 2

      DAB is transmitted at a higher frequency than FM, so it has worse ground-following properties. For hilly areas, go low-power DRM in the old AM band. That will provide FM-like quality with AM-like propagation. Or go DRM+ on the FM band.

      FM does not have particularly amazing range and noise resistance. Something as simple as reflections makes it cut out regularly. The primary reason it works so well is that it is being blasted out at 150kW from 250m tall towers, whereas the competing digital signals generally get stuck with 25kW on a 50m tall tower.

      That said, radio is legacy and needs to be treated like that, not infested with useless "upgrades".

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  7. Re:Good first step by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's a good thing you stopped writing because you where only a dozen sentences away from asking for the end of the universe.

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  8. AM to FM to DAB? by foxalopex · · Score: 2

    It's interesting but with every advance in broadcast radio technology it has required a massive jump in radio equipment. AM could for example be received in an unpowered crystal radio set with virtually no components! (Yes it could run off radio waves like magic!) FM required significantly more parts and I imagine DAB requires a much more advanced digital receiver. Frankly I don't see the advantage of doing this, it's not like most cars have super high quality sound systems with all the road noise. I think this is probably just a bad idea in most areas.

    1. Re:AM to FM to DAB? by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh now come on, it's easy to make a digital radio receiver out of a naturally semiconducting crystal, three paper clips, a speaker, some copper wire, and a Raspberry Pi.

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    2. Re:AM to FM to DAB? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      For each advancement in everything humans have done complexity has increased. If it were achievable with zero complexity then we likely would have achieved that stage earlier in our development.

      If you want to get very historical, AM wasn't simple. What was simple was spark gap transmitter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... It worked very well over very long distances and needed only the most crudest of equipment to work. The problem is it wasn't very selective and was incredibly noisy across a very wide spectrum.

      Which brings me to a nice segway:

      Frankly I don't see the advantage of doing this

      Quality is just a small part of why the transition happened. A large part is spectral efficiency. You can now cram >10 DAB+ stations in the same space as a single FM station. Spectrum is a very valuable resource and across many industries efficient use of the spectrum has been a very critical requirement. It's the same reason why many governments issued an order for 25kHz land-mobile licencees to switch to 12.5kHz or to switch to digital and return part of their allocation. The move to DAB+ and turning off the FM transmitters was in large part to claim back some spectrum to be used for other purposes.

  9. The range of digital is pretty awful by TomR+teh+Pirate · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Living in the San Francisco Bay Area, I can tell you that there is a plethora of digital FM stations that my car stereo simply cannot receive. Their FM counterparts come in just fine. A lot of listeners are likely to find that listening dead zones are going to increase significantly.

  10. this kills me by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    It used to be that America was the leader on tech and pushed open source and effective solutions. DAB is absolutely the RIGHT way to do that.
    Then we have America. We picked not only a closed architecture, but one that sux.

    Keep up the good work Europe.

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    1. Re:this kills me by amorsen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      DAB is a horrible standard. DAB+ is not so bad, except it is useless for local radio stations.

      There are two sensible digital radio standards. DVB-T2 (because the transmitters already exist for TV, so the first 50 or so radio channels are practically free) and DRM+ (Digital Radio Mondiale).

      DAB+ is almost as good as DVB-T2, but DVB-T2 was out years before. It makes zero sense to switch TO DAB+, it is legacy before it gets implemented.

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  11. Better quality? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    allows for better sound quality

    By better sound quality, do they mean the signal isn't compressed six ways to Tuesday so music sounds tinny, weak and as if it's coming through a wire a raccoon is chewing on?

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  12. The summary is borderline criminally incorrect by Misagon · · Score: 5, Informative

    DAB radio does not provide more channels and better quality.
    It provides the option between more channels or better quality: pick one!

    And we all know what gets picked every time.

    --
    "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
  13. That's just nonsense by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Informative

    FM is already to intermittent and noisy to be of any use at the point where DAB+ becomes silent.

    That's flat-out nonsense.

    You can have a perfectly steady FM signal at low levels with a constant noise level - and a pretty low one at that if you keep the stereo decoding off - at ranges where digital signals are flat-out gone due to high error rates. And it's not just range - multipath will eat digital signals for lunch (that's reflections off buildings, etc.)

    So how do I know? I write SDR software. I deal with this stuff directly, meaning, I write the demodulators and the rest of the signal processing chain. I get better performance than any FM tuner you ever heard of; so I know the range tradeoff for digital is severe. I have RF recordings of many examples. They can be played back, (re—)demodulated, and A:b comparisons made at the drop of a hat. There's no doubt about it: FM analog is superior for use other than local. Likewise the atrocity that is AM digital, IBOC. Quite aside from blowing out two AM channels besides the one the station is actually on, it suffers from the same range and decode fragility that FM digital does.

    These are really bad ideas: for services like this, new bands should be allocated rather than shitting all over the existing ones.

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  14. Re:Norway and cars by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 2

    This is pretty true. I've been to many small places in Norway... and once the population hits about two thousand, there seems to be mass transit via buses but not to the way off places. To be fair though, I've seen bus stops outside of most farms I've driven past. There is a pretty complete taxi system in Norway... even in the somewhat tiny places, but they're absolutely stupidly expensive. There is always a taxi when you need one, but most taxi drivers can sit for an hour or more waiting for a fare... and they make sure to charge you appropriately for that.