China Blocks Foreign Companies From Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars (thedrive.com)

The Chinese government is blocking foreign companies from mapping its roads in great detail, according to a Financial Times (paywalled) report. The restrictions, which reportedly do not apply to Chinese firms, are being instituted in the name of national security. China is concerned about spying. From a report: China has restricted the recording of geographic information for more than a decade because it believes giving other countries access to that information constitutes a security risk. Geographic surveys can't be performed without permission from the government, and many digital cameras don't record GPS coordinates for geotagging, as they do in other countries, according to Fortune.

Comments

Then the cars aren't truly self-driving

[b0s0z0ku]

If a car needs a detailed map to drive itself, instead of responding to visual cues like signs, curb position, road markings, then it's not truly "self driving." Self-driving cars should be able to follow maps of the level of detail given by (say) Google Maps -- they should be able to operate with GPS info and knowing how roads are "networked."

Re:Then the cars aren't truly self-driving

[K. S. Kyosuke]

they should be able to operate with GPS info and knowing how roads are "networked."

Just like human drivers without maps and any knowledge of the neighborhood, right? Very efficient!

Re:Then the cars aren't truly self-driving

[Tablizer]

If a car needs a detailed map to drive itself, instead of responding to visual cues like signs, curb position, road markings, then it's not truly "self driving."

The more clues it has, the better. This applies to humans also.

But the bigger issue here is unfair competition: local firms get extra info that foreign firms don't. Being we have a huge trade gap, partly because of this kind of favoritism, I hope the Trump administration makes an issue out of it and threatens sanctions.

This is the kind of thing voters hoped Trump would focus on, instead of Twitter fights with athletes. He used to always rail against China's trade practices. Let's hope the Good Trump comes out instead of the Distracted Trump.

Re:Then the cars aren't truly self-driving

[vux984]

"If a car needs a detailed map to drive itself, instead of responding to visual cues like signs, curb position, road markings, then it's not truly "self driving."

What it if it doesn't 'need', what if it just 'benefits from' it?

I mean, are you personally better at driving on streets that you know? You know which lights are stupid, the road with really bad potholes, you know about the blind driveway on the corner of X, you know that there's a school at Z where kids are often playing. You know there's always a lineup that backs out onto the road from the starbucks at Q between 7am and 9am, and that the construction at F is makes left turns hard, etc. You know every driveway, twist, turn, and ramp, and elevation change, where its safe to pass, where its safe to pull over, where to get gas, where to park.

Are you really just as comfortable looking at an out of date map for a city you've never been to?

You don't need the extra information, but it sure helps.

Re:Then the cars aren't truly self-driving

[WindBourne]

trump can not, nor will, make an issue out of this.
So far, trump has shown more favortism towards china and russia than either W or O. Hell, he PROMISED to stop China's dumping and once his kids got their IP from china, he turned china into his best friends, while they are laughing at what a traitor Trump is.

But, CHina will crack down further in a short bit and prevent any western car maker from having self-driving vehicles in CHina. They really are a danger esp. since CHina is in a cold war with the west.

Re:Then the cars aren't truly self-driving

[kaatochacha]

The original article is on China not letting anyone other than themselves use maps of their roads.
You morphed it into a diatribe on how much you hate America.
It sounds as if you are the one with a problem. Do restaurant menus remind you how much you hate America?
Does looking at a tree remind you of your awesome dislike of the USA?
I would imagine, at parties, you're the annoying "Avoid that guy, all he does is bitch about America" guy, standing alone in the corner, fuming.

Re: Then the cars aren't truly self-driving

[Midnight Thunder]

I am many things, but certainly not a Trump voter, but I am starting to feel some tit-for-tat is necessary. If the Chinese block access to foreign firms or increase levies, while their companies get free reign both at home and internationally, then something is wrong.

A policy should be instated indicating that if a foreign nation provides unfair access, then the same should be coming. At the same time if we already do create unfair barriers, then we should accept that is fair game another country will to do so for the same products.

If you want access to an open market, then you need to be playing by the same rules or risk getting penalised in the same way.

Re:Then the cars aren't truly self-driving

[Tablizer]

So, you'd be OK with a Chinese company doing detailed mapping of US military bases?

No, but IF the US gov't says military-related roads are off-limits to commercial mapping systems, then they should be off-limits to ALL commercial mapping systems, regardless of country of owners or headquarters.

policy is "America First" and is entirely built on American exceptionalism and local firms getting a leg up.

Every other country favors local firms. The US should either follow suit or crack down on such practices with tariffs etc. Some economists say "free trade" is beneficial even if one side cheats. I have to disagree, for one it contributes to bubbles because one kind of asset builds up under lopsided trade. Plus, it can create risk during military conflicts:

I'm not sure Americans fully appreciate the extent to which China already owns much of your economy. So good luck with those sanctions.

That's just why we have to balance things out. Nobody wants another country to have them by the economic balls. Thanks for making my point for me.

I think all countries should make sure trade is reasonably balanced. That advice is not about an East-vs-West battle.

Shades of Stalin

[mykepredko]

Reading this reminded me of Stalin ordered that the Soviet Union never published accurate maps of the country for fear of spying/invasion/bombing. This went on until the USSR's break up.

Not surprisingly, Stalin ordered the creation of very detailed maps of the rest of the world to aid in spying/invasion/bombing: https://www.wired.com/2015/07/...

Re:google maps does not even line up right in chin

[dwheeler]

China indeed forces geographic data to be "off" a little bit compared to the rest of the world. For more information, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... in particularly the discussion on the GCJ-02 datum (colloquially Mars Coordinates).

smart on CHina's part

[WindBourne]

China is very much in a cold war with the west (and is winning). The ability to map the streets and then have a self-driving car with multiple cameras,move around, means that these vehicles can be used for weapons,but also for spying on what is happening.
As such, I fully expect china to block ANY self-driving western company car from China. Likewise, the west would be very wise to follow their steps on this.After all, China is just as likely to use their manufactured buses and vehicles as weapons and spy devices as well.

Camera's can't see the roads anyway due to smog

[JoeyRox]

Take a left at the smog-obscured road, then continue for 3 miles, veering right of the smog-obscured fork.