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Tesla Is Prohibiting Commercial Drivers From Using Its Supercharger Stations (theverge.com)
Tesla has issued a new policy called Supercharger Fair Use, which prohibits new commercial drivers from using the red-and-white charging ports. The reason behind this new policy is to help alleviate congestion and improve the experience for others who rely on the Supercharging services. The Verge reports: Tesla says that the stations are intended for drivers who don't have ready options for charging at home or at work, and that when they're not used for this purpose, "it negatively impacts the availability of Supercharging services for others." Thus, the new policy says that for vehicles purchased after December 15th, drivers who plan to use their vehicles as a taxi, for ridesharing, commercial delivery or transportation, governmental purposes, or other commercial ventures won't be permitted to use the free stations. The company tracks usage and driver behavior, and if they find that someone isn't complying with the policy, they might be asked to stop, and simply limit or block one's vehicle from the stations in certain instances. The policy went into effect on Friday, December 15th, 2017. A Tesla spokesperson said that the company does "encourage the use of Teslas for commercial purposes," and that they will work with drivers to find other places to charge their vehicles. The policy carve out an exception, saying that some stations might be excluded, depending on local circumstances.
What about my Uber business? I don't have a charger at home guys but I got to Uber to eat!
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
The more I read about how Tesla treats their customers and the cars the "sell" to them, it really looks like you lose nearly all privacy and that the car you spent a ton of money on is never, ever truly yours.
Electric, self-driving cars, are where the future is headed, however, all of this tracking will make me never purchase Tesla or any other car that tracks this much data. They have no right to know I stopped by "dildos r us" right before I went to visit my friend in prison.
This is a tell about the future of automobile transport:
The company tracks usage and driver behavior, and if they find that someone isn't complying with the policy, they might be asked to stop, and simply limit or block one's vehicle from the stations in certain instances.
Just as privacy was destroyed in personal communication, so to shall it be for transportation. I own a 1996 Chevy. I do not have to tell Chevy where I drive, nor do they get a say in where I go. They cannot block my car from certain destinations even if they wanted to.
We are on the cusp of a world where companies track everyone's driving. Arguably telecom companies already do that, but it's rapidly expanding in car companies, with GM Onstar, the Tesla system above, etc. Not only that, they will grant themselves veto power over your use of your automobile. Violate the Terms of Service? No more driving for you.
The ownership era is drawing to a close in every area, from phones, to cars, to appliances, to (legally owned) entertainment media.
Toyota is switching back to batteries. that should tell you something.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
First, you can do whatever you want with what you buy, but you didn't buy a supercharger. You can decide when you have the right to fill up on your own charger or use someone else's charger according to their rules.
Second, you didn't RTFA because it said for vehicles purchased after December 15th, the new rules shall apply. Meaning that no one that already purchased a Tesla is having the rules changed after the purchase.
Finally, the rule makes a lot of sense to me. If superchargers are getting contested and if a significant fraction are used by a small percentage of users, it's reasonable to makes rules to ensure they are more readily available.
A bit over the top... TFA says NEW commercial drivers. So, if you become an Uber driver after this policy is in place, you have no-one to blame. In any case, people should never have had the expectation that Tesla would subsidize the fuel costs for their Uber business indefinitely. As usual in 'modern society', a small subset of users, intent on pushing the absolute limit of any arrangement, screws things up for everyone else. Complain to those Tesla drivers, not to the company that provided a pretty cool ownership perk and trusted people not to abuse it.
I think that Tesla the manufacturer's point is that commercial users should set up their own infrastructure, or should contract as a business expense for someone else's commercial infrastructure. It harms the totality of the electric car market by letting one fairly small segment of the market monopolize the recharging stations.
If I interpret this right, this is not the same as Chevron stating that one could not fuel-up because Tesla is giving the electric power to the customer, not charging them for it. If Chevron gave away fuel but wanted to charge commercial users would that be different?
Around here there are the normal gas stations for regular drivers, and there are perhaps one to two special gas stations for commercial accounts in a 50 sq mile area. These commercial fuel stations don't have convenience stores, don't have attendants, don't even have credit card readers. One has to have an existing account to get fuel, and enter credentials at the pump to activate it. This sort of setup would make sense for commercial electric users too, where they don't charge their cars at their residences or at their places of business.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Toyota is staying with hydrogen according to the most recent article I could find on the matter (April 2017).
Maybe you are thinking of Daimler? Although you should really read the whole article I linked to, in order to understand what Daimler is saying.
I can see some short term support going to all electric cars because of Tesla worrying other car makers. But long term physical reality dictates the end game, and all car makers know it.
There will always be all-electric cars mind you, they just will not be in the majority.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
When is the last time you saw a big rig pull up to your local Chevron to fill up its gas tank? They are merely trying to separate commercial fleets from non-commercial fleets. Just like with normal ICE taxis, big rigs, construction, etc.
I think that Tesla the manufacturer's point is that commercial users should set up their own infrastructure
In fact, that's apparently one of the reasons why they opened up their patents. So that companies could build these things in their parking lots etc.
Ezekiel 23:20
They are not stopping anyone from charging the cars, they are just stopping them from 'abusing' (as defined by them) particular charging stations. If you left your car parked in front of the diesel pump for half an hour after filling the tank, the gas station would be within their rights to say 'you cannot fill up here anymore'
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
It is not "hard" to make hydrogen. Hydrogen is made from natural gas. The problems is that natural gas is a better fuel for cars than hydrogen in almost every aspect. It is readily available, you don't have to have super high pressure to get decent energy density, natural gas engines are cheaper to make... Reforming natural gas into hydrogen releases the carbon in natural gas into the atmosphere anyway, so there is no potential reduction in green house gasses. What possible advantage does hydrogen offer?
I think that Tesla the manufacturer's point is that commercial users should set up their own infrastructure
I agree that's a salient point, however consider its from the consumer side - you buy a Tesla with the promise you can use the supercharger stations.
Let's say I just like to drive around a lot for fun. Suddenly the Tesla system profiles me as making a lot of daily trips and suddenly I'm put in the Tesla charging jail, and cannot use the stations anymore! That is a pretty nerve-wracking concept to me, after all what if there's a Google-Docs like slip-up and suddenly for no reason at all the software classifies most drivers as being off-limits from the charging stations? For all of us working in software we know that is not an impossible scenario.
Around here there are the normal gas stations for regular drivers, and there are perhaps one to two special gas stations for commercial accounts in a 50 sq mile area.
Yes but the thing is there ARE NO commercial charging stations so you are cutting them off cold with no other options, which again goes against the promise a car buyer understood.
It's not link commercial drivers cannot use the normal gas stations if a commercial one is too far away. Normal gas stations don't give a rip who buys the gas. So Tesla has reversed the model of availability and now they look very much like commercial stations where only select cars can make use of the services - not all of the cars that they make. And again there's the very un-gas station like concept that any car may be denied service at any time because of choices a remote server makes.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Tesla says that the stations are intended for drivers who don't have ready options for charging at home or at work, and that when they're not used for this purpose, "it negatively impacts the availability of Supercharging services for others." Thus, the new policy says that for vehicles purchased after December 15th, drivers who plan to use their vehicles as a taxi, for ridesharing, commercial delivery or transportation, governmental purposes, or other commercial ventures won't be permitted to use the free stations.
If there's anyone who needs fast-charging stations I'd expect it to be the commercial drivers. A typical commuter can easily recharge at home or work after they parked. But a commercial driver can have 8+ hours of sustained use during the day. Unless they can swap cars part way they're going to have to re-charge during the work day. And the time spent re-charging is directly counted in their pay.
If commercial drivers are swamping the fast-charging stations it's because they desperately need them for their Teslas to be a viable option.
I stole this Sig
The reasoning behind this move, which if you think about it was inevitable, is the reason why I still think all cars being put electric is infeasible. You simply CANNOT have enough fast chargers around to reasonably accommodate everyone who needs to fuel up in a day.
Uh, why not?
still support electric cars mind you; it's just that in the end most electric cars will be hydrogen fuel cell based, where you can fuel up in a reasonable timeframe just like cars today.
So, instead of just installing new electric devices onto the existing power grid, you think that society should create an entirely new distribution network for hydrogen? That would easily take significantly more time and money that it would to simply install more chargers.
I don't respond to AC's.
There is also an issue where people don't move their cars after charging
I always assumed that pretty shortly the Tesla cars will simply move themselves out of the way when charged... not even joking, as supercharger throughput is going to be an issue sooner rather than later.
I can also see someone going to a restaurant, the car driving over when a space is free, then driving back to collect the occupants when done, that way you don't need a lot of extra parking around the supercharger station itself.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've read through the commentary so far. Sheesh, people, did Tesla kill your father or something?
Tesla has offered unlimited use of the Superchargers to most of their customers. They initially offered it to everyone, then they announced a change ahead of time (and not retroactive). Then they decided to make their deal more generous, and just to make sure the more-generous deal applied to everyone they announced a one-time retroactive change to give unlimited Supercharger use to all Model S and Model X customers as of that date.
Unlimited use of the Supercharger goes with the car, so every car that ever had it still has it. Buy a used Tesla that has unlimited Supercharger use, you get that benefit. This hasn't changed.
Now they announced their "Supercharger Fair Use" policy that commercial users will no longer be permitted unlimited free use of the Superchargers... and that's only on new sales of Tesla cars, so anyone who has already been running a business and using the Superchargers is still being allowed to continue doing it.
What if you want to buy a Tesla in 2018 and use it for a business? You still can, just install a Tesla wall connector and you can charge the car from empty to full in less time than it takes you to get a good night's sleep. (If you have a 240 Volt circuit with enough Watts you can charge a Tesla at one-quarter the speed of a Supercharger... at your home or business!)
What if you want to operate a whole fleet of Teslas as a taxi service or something? Tesla will sell you a private Supercharger station you can set up. Rumor has it a two-station Supercharger costs about $60K, and rumor has it that Tesla might give it free with a bulk purchase of 10 cars:
https://electrek.co/2016/10/03/tesla-to-deliver-its-largest-privately-owned-supercharger-station-to-a-taxi-fleet-in-montreal/
To those of you wailing that Tesla can control who uses their Supercharger stations: yeah, they can, but so far they haven't abused this in any way; and they can't stop you (and don't want to stop you) from setting up your own charging solution.
It's true that gas stations don't control who can get gas there. But they don't give the gas for free to anyone... they charge money which is why they don't care who gets it. Also, gas stations are pretty well built-out everywhere, while Tesla is frantically building new Supercharger stations; IMHO Tesla is looking after their ordinary customers by trying to keep a few users from disproportionately using the Superchargers.
And note that all Telsas can use all the other charging stations for all the other cars, with an adapter. If you are so worried about the Supercharger, get a CHAdeMO adapter; this will charge a Tesla about half as fast as a Supercharger station, which is still pretty darn fast.
If you read all the above and you still think Tesla is doing something wrong here, I'm really curious as to just what it might be. Maybe you think Tesla should promise to just give free unlimited power forever to everyone without limit? That doesn't seem very reasonable to me.
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Are they expensive to install? YES THEY ARE.
That's also ignoring the cost of getting wiring TO each spot, and the huge additional burden of ongoing maintenance all of the wiring and chargers entail.
So what's the hold-up? I'd say it's the complete lack of demand.
There are already areas with high Tesla ownership running into issues. There's plenty of demand in places, but why would there be a rush to build out expensive support that no-one will be paying for?
Unlike your fantasies, I have resources to back up what I am saying, not to mention simple common sense for anyone that spends ten minutes on the thought experiment of what it means to wire every spot (or even just most spots) in a parking lot.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Do they forbid the use of Tesla chargers to mine bitcoins, just like some people abuse subsided electricity in Venezuela?
The rules don't apply retroactively, only to new purchases. Nobody had the rug pulled out from under them.
Anyone else get a little creeped out at the implications of Tesla "tracking usage and driver behavior" and controlling what you can do with the car accordingly? It has the feel of a software license or website's Terms Of Service. What other future behavior might they decide to prohibit? "Oh, look, you exceeded the speed limit twelve times. Reckless behavior voids your warranty."
They aren't doing this to existing users. They're grandfathered in, much like how I'm grandfathered in to free charging for the life of my vehicle. It's only for NEW vehicles. It's their network, not yours. You're free to charge wherever you like. If a driver wants free electricity when driving for Uber or Lyft, then Uber or Lyft should pay for it, not Tesla. Tesla should not have to subsidize it.
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