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Tesla Big Battery Outsmarts Lumbering Coal Units After Loy Yang Trips (reneweconomy.com.au)
The Tesla big battery is having a crucial impact on Australia's electricity market, far beyond the South Australia grid where it was expected to time shift a small amount of wind energy and provide network services and emergency back-up in case of a major problem. From a report: Last Thursday, one of the biggest coal units in Australia, Loy Yang A 3, tripped without warning at 1.59am, with the sudden loss of 560MW and causing a slump in frequency on the network. What happened next has stunned electricity industry insiders and given food for thought over the near to medium term future of the grid, such was the rapid response of the Tesla big battery to an event that happened nearly 1,000km away. Even before the Loy Yang A unit had finished tripping, the 100MW/129MWh had responded, injecting 7.3MW into the network to help arrest a slump in frequency that had fallen below 49.80Hertz.
First;
It's almost 2018. I would have expected a space-based solar array to take over. You know, like Solaren promised us by 2016.
Oh well, time to leave the space fantasies 50 years in the past where they belong and look at present reality.
For the benefit of Americans reading: the nominal AC frequency in Australia is 50Hz, not 60Hz.
The resiliency of the power grid would be vastly improved if we put a battery pack (the size of a normal intermodal container) at each substation. These could act like your home UPS, fixing blackouts of a few minutes, when they occur. This also would make the grid much more able to use wind and solar sources, without so much need for standby diesel systems currently in place.
He was right about everything he said. That doesn't excuse his actions, but everything he has predicted has and is coming to pass.
You don't like the internet of things?
I wanted to post the whole manifesto, but I got the "lameness filter". That's like calling Emerson lame. Whatever. Here is a link so you can read it at your leisure:
https://partners.nytimes.com/l...
When is Musk going to stop making big promises and then following through?
He sure is a bad politician.
Trying to remember why it wouldn't have worked. Because it might steal their market share? Yeah pretty sure that was their reason they didn't think it would.
I'm not sure how this is suppose to be amazing considering most computer folks at home who care about their systems use a UPS. I can see how not having a UPS and losing power at a key point might be a small disaster. Probably the only amazing part is that there are few systems that approach this size and scope but aside from that nothing new.
If a power source goes offline, wouldn't you see a slump in voltage? Why the decrease in frequency?
We had some fridge sized batteries to keep things up until the diesel generator kicked in. Two different jobs, fast response vs.prolonged heavy usage.
This program was made possible by a grant from the Ultra-Humanite, and viewers like you.
The coal plant that failed was producing close to 600MW. The max output from the graph in the article showed the battery system inject less than 10MW max into the grid. Who pickup up the other 500+ MW? The other coal plant that came online within 6 secs. Basically all the batteries did was reduce the size of the brownout.
580 - 7 = ?
Then you should chew your food better, or if you prepared it, you should grind the corn before putting into the food, as a courtesy to your guests.
Corn kernels are made of cellulose, and the human body can't digest cellulose. That's why when you eat whole corn, it comes out in your doodie.
Most corn in the US is also GMO (Genetically Modified Organism), and intellectual property of (c) Monstanto Corporation (tm)(R), the creators of Agent Orange which have injured our US service members.
UPS, that's not a UPS,
THIS is a UPS!
hehe
L'Idiot
Basically it's only a big deal to those who don't understand power systems design especially as it applies to industry and enterprise customers.
Most of the generators are of the asynchronous type (or induction type). This type or generatior produces no energy when the rotor runs at exactly the grid frequency. Not until the rotor of the generator spins faster than the grid, it produces energy to the net.
The difference between the rotor frequency and the net frequency is called slip, and is usually a few percent. For typical slips, the produced power is proportional to the slip.
So, if the load increases (or the generating power decreases), the (average) slip must increase for the (remaining) generators, and since the generators cannot run any faster, the only possible reaction is for the network frequency to drop.
Similarly, if you have an asynchronous motor and start to load it, its will spin slower (increase its slip) to provide more power.
The synchronous electric machines do not operate according to this principle. They always run with the same frequency as the grid (and compensate by increasing or decrasing the current production or consumption). If a synchronous motor is loaded too hard, it will finally break out of the synchronicity and stop working.
560 > 7.3.
Who cares if it beat the other large plant at responding by a few seconds. They "arrested" the slump about as well as tossing a bucket of water on a forest fire. It was another large plant that actually fixed the slump. The Gladstone coal generator in Queensland.
Look at how they try to overplay the impact with the 2nd output chart. The scale for the coal plant is 0-600MW. The Tesla pant is 0-9MW. Compare them on the same scale and the tesla plant would barely be a bump on that chart.
The UPS in my home can respond quicker in then giant mechanical 600MW power pant. Doesn't mean it's any good at propping up a power grid.
I also really doubt anyone in the industry is "stunned" a small solid state battery plant could respond quicker then a massive turbine that needs to wind up to adjust its output.
If the Tesla plant respond in some unexpected or surprising way then there is a problem.
The Tesla technology is amazing but this story is ridiculous.
I have to return some videotapes...
it was expected to time shift a small amount of wind energy and provide network services and emergency back-up in case of a major problem.
They had a major problem, and it did what it was supposed to do. How and why does this stun people?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
The narrative and conclusions are a big dodgy. Everybody knew beforehand that batteries can jump in immediately to supply power. And the batteries did not stop a complete collapse, electrical networks are thoroughly analyzed and simulated and braced against major consequences if any one unit trips out. Major outages are quite rare over the decades, and all done without a single battery. Gas turbines can come on-line within 60 seconds and other interconnected plants often have enough reserve capacity to tide over small outages. Batteries are welcome as an immediate source, but they are still awfully expensive and awfully small in GWH.
Outsmarts Lumbering Coal Units???? Tell me what you really think there. Geez. BIAS.
The drop in frequency itself isn't the big problem, it's a gauge, an indicator.
The frequency tells you how fast the generators are turning. They are automatically throttled to try to spin at the right speed to produce 50Hz. If they aren't producing 50Hz, that means they are full wide open throttle and still can't keep up. It means they can't produce enough power.
Worst case, they could probably do rolling blackouts to keep the grid stable at the cost of disconnecting some unlucky customers.
We are all going to die /s
Luckily these batteries are amazeeng and they saved us
This performance is nothing special and really doesn't warrant a press release
...disconnecting the load of185,000 homes had nothing to do with restoring the frequency. It was all thanks to the magic of Elon.
All glory to the Hypno-Musk!
Seriously guys, this is already done, what's the point ?
http://www.ulyces.co/wp-conten...
aaaaaaa
I'm perfectly happy that Tesla's tech works, but this article is just low-grade and aimed at emotions.
Who was "outsmarted" here? Power plants have no emotions. Why would anyone be "stunned" by a giant UPS working? This post is phrased just like bad click-through ads ("One weird trick", "X hates you knowing about..."). ./ deserves better articles.
There are many generating plants that support frequency response. The value of frequency response support is already recognized in some markets. Eventually the available ramp rate will become a component of the market price of frequency response. The ability to program static inverter power supplies to have a response that acts like high inertia generation with very fast throttle response+ is significant.
Here are some systems to compare.
Dinorwig Power Station Wales Hydro pumped storage
0 MW to 1800 MW load can be achieved in approximately 16 seconds
The starting loading capability is often quite different than the advertised ramp rate for gas turbines. Gas turbine ramp rates of 35 to 50 MW/min are achievable only after the unit has reached self-sustaining speed. The fastest loading gas turbine models produce 30% load delivery after 7 minutes and take nearly 30 minutes to reach full output under hot start conditions. Wärtsilä 34SG combustion engines have true quick start capability – an effective ramp rate of 50% per minute, reaching full load within 2 minutes. For a 200 MW plant, this equates to 100 MW/min.
Electrolysis is grossly inefficient for storage.
Instead, we pump water up a hill. Then let it flow down again later. There is a smallish plant near Brisbane that has been operating for decades. And there are plans to build something massive in the Snowies. And possibly a sea water driven one in SA.
Pumped Hydro is far more efficient for storing large quantities of power than batteries. But the max output is limited to the hydro generators. Li Ion batteries can produce huge power for a short time, thus good for grid stabilization.
That said, the price of Li Ion is falling, and may eventually compete with pumped hydro.
The other storage system is molten salt. There is another plant planed for SA that will do that, and thus be able to supply solar electricity at night.
Incidentally, the 7MW reported by the article is probably nonsense, that is too little to have much effect on anything, and the batteries can produce 100MW.
No expert is even mildly surprised that technology worked as expected. Seriously, what is it with the demented stories?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Yes and no. The narratives are based on who bought something for what. In this case it was one state buying the battery to fix it's own grid stability issues, and inadvertently their system kicked in to protect the grid when a plant tripped on the far side of the next state over despite not actually being contracted to do so.
Clark Griswold strikes again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2I-_tIDV-4