Coinbase Adds Support For Bitcoin Cash [Update: Disabled]

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Coinbase Adds Support For Bitcoin Cash [Update: Disabled]

Posted by BeauHD on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @08:10PM from the come-and-get-it dept.

Popular digital exchange Coinbase has announced support for Bitcoin Cash. "Bitcoin Cash was created by a fork on August 1st, 2017," a blog post reads. "All customers who held a Bitcoin balance on Coinbase at the time of the fork will now see an equal balance of Bitcoin Cash available in their Coinbase account. Your Bitcoin Cash balance will reflect your Bitcoin balance at the time of the Bitcoin Cash Fork, which occurred at 13:20 UTC, August 1, 2017."

The recent announcement has disrupted the markets. Bitcoin has dropped 12 percent, with the other two cryptocurrencies supported via Coinbase not faring too well either.

Update: Coinbase said Tuesday evening users wouldn't be able to buy and sell bitcoin cash four hours after it said trading of the cryptocurrency would be enabled on its platforms. Chief executive Brian Armstrong said the company is looking into whether employees tried to profit from advanced knowledge of the news.

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Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:04 · Score: -1

Coincidence does not imply causation.
Coinbase adding support for BCC had dick to do with the coincident market movements in digital currency.. Coinbase is not even an exchange...
1. Re:Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:14 · Score: 0
  
  Coinbase is an exchange lol. They own GDAX. and yes, them adding BCH had everything to do with the price move
2. Re: Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:19 · Score: -1
  
  Cryptocurrencies are a massive Ponzi scheme. The last ones in will lose all their money. Exchanges like Coinbase should be shut down by the feds.
3. Re:Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:22 · Score: 0
  
  Coinbase is not GDAX. GDAX is an exchange, Coinbase is not.
  Many cryptos that are NOT in coinbase are also moving very much higher right now. Coinbase has nothing to do with it.
4. Re:Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:32 · Score: 0
  
  Coinbase is an exchange, unless you have some interesting definition of exchange. You can exchange fiat for BTC, BCH, ETH, and LTC
5. Re:Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:32 · Score: 0
  
  Which ones are moving higher? Yeah some might be but you're being silly if you think coinbase has nothing to do with this.
6. Re: Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:33 · Score: 0
  
  Found the guy who is pissed he didn't get in early enough
7. Re: Hahaha no... by j-turkey · 2017-12-19 14:13 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Cryptocurrencies are a massive Ponzi scheme. The last ones in will lose all their money. Exchanges like Coinbase should be shut down by the feds.
  It sounds like you do not understand what a Ponzi scheme is. Read up, my friend. It may be a bubble, but it's not a Ponzi scheme by any definition that I've ever heard of.
  
  --
  
  -Turkey
8. Re: Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 14:15 · Score: 1
  
  No, the issue is first that it's an investment rather than a functional currency. Processing times are too long and the transaction fees are large even relative to credit cards. The investment only gains value as long as people keep buying into it. Once people stop buying in, the value of cryptocurrencies will rapidly go to zero. The overall value of all Bitcoins right now (assuming 17 million coins and a value of $19,000) is around $323 billion. That's the value of some very large businesses. However, those businesses have real value through brands, intellectual property, and profits. Nothing of the sort exists for cryptocurrencies.
9. Re: Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 14:21 · Score: 0
  
  Technically, it probably isn't a Ponzi scheme. There are many similarities, though. I'm not the only person who has commented on this. For example: http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/364306-bitcoin-is-a-ponzi-scheme-and-it-will-collapse-like-one
10. Re:Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 14:56 · Score: 0
  
  You cannot perform like-kind exchanges on Coinbase, period. You can only buy and sell for fiat, which triggers a tax event.
11. Re: Hahaha no... by j-turkey · 2017-12-19 15:21 · Score: 2
  
  Makes sense, and you are certainly not the first person to make the comparison. Sure, if people stop believing in the currency and try to sell all at once, its value will collapse. That goes for any currency. In this case, the main difference between a cryptocurrency and a fiat currency is that the latter has the backing of a government. However, a fiat currency can still drop to near zero value as well. I read a good quote about this a few years ago - "a real Ponzi scheme takes fraud; bitcoin, by contrast, seems more like a collective delusion."
  
  --
  
  -Turkey
12. Re:Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 15:27 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, it's still an exchange though
13. Re: Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 15:51 · Score: 0
  
  That's a contributor article. Anyone can go on there and write one lol.
14. Re: Hahaha no... by aliquis · 2017-12-19 16:37 · Score: 1
  
  Even "professionals" commenting market moves dream them up.
  But yeah. This one seem retarded.
15. Re: Hahaha no... by Mr307 · 2017-12-19 19:20 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Its some hybrid of a ponzi/pyramid/mlm scam.
  The only feature that supposedly guarantees value is the scarcity and, and thats just a joke since there are over 4000 types of 'coins' now, and I would bet that number is growing daily now.
  Many people have pointed out that its already looking like some kind of 'investment' vehicle which is a near perfect reversal from what its claimed to want to do. Others have pointed out that as the perceived value rises more people will hold their coins rather than use them since its both too costly to use and if the belief is that the 'value' will continue to rise then its very difficult to reliably buy or sell anything with it since you dont know its value minute to minute or day to day.
  And I wish Slashdot would stop posting stories about this scam, if the underlying tech is interesting in some other field then great, but its not for currency.
16. Re: Hahaha no... by Rei · 2017-12-19 20:27 · Score: 1
  
  Speaking of that, note the update:
  
  Update: Coinbase said Tuesday evening users wouldn't be able to buy and sell bitcoin cash four hours after it said trading of the cryptocurrency would be enabled on its platforms. Chief executive Brian Armstrong said the company is looking into whether employees tried to profit from advanced knowledge of the news.
  Seriously, is it even possible for there to be any new event related to cryptocurrencies without them turning into some sort of scam, hack, insider trading, or other such event? Seriously...
  
  --
  "This wallpaper is killing me. One of us has got to go." -- Oscar Wilde on his deathbed
17. Re: Hahaha no... by Rei · 2017-12-19 20:30 · Score: 1
  
  And on that front, it's kept up its growth by moving from the most hardcore crypto-anarcho-capitalists into general libertarians and geeks into the general, computer-illiterate / non-ideologically-driven public who only has a vague idea what bitcoin is, but they're buying it because it's going up in value.
  Eventually you run out of suckers. Those who correctly predicted or lucked into a big wave of suckers behind them, and then get out, end up with said suckers money. That's how these things work.
  
  --
  "This wallpaper is killing me. One of us has got to go." -- Oscar Wilde on his deathbed
18. Re: Hahaha no... by Lanthanide · 2017-12-19 21:56 · Score: 1
  
  There are about 1,300 coins, not 4000.
  There are lots of ICOs / tokens on Ethereum, though.
19. Re: Hahaha no... by Megol · 2017-12-19 22:45 · Score: 1
  
  No it's not a Ponzi game - but it is a type of pyramid game. Intentionally? Perhaps not. Still is.
20. Re:Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 23:05 · Score: 0
  
  Double full stop.. Double full stop.. Look at me,, I''m being different..
21. Re: Hahaha no... by Opportunist · 2017-12-19 23:47 · Score: 1
  
  It's not a pyramid scheme. No sir. Our model is the trapezoid!
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
22. Re: Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 00:47 · Score: 0
  
  no there are over 7000 different coins, and probably increasing daily since it's trivial to make another one, as the code is public.
23. Re: Hahaha no... by religionofpeas · 2017-12-20 01:53 · Score: 2
  
  > there are over 4000 types of 'coins' now, and I would bet that number is growing daily now.
  There are also over 4000 types of 'painting', but the Mona Lisa is still worth millions. It's easy to create a coin, but it's very hard to create one with value.
24. Re:Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 03:36 · Score: 0
  
  Also hate to burst your bubble, but a coin for coin trade is also taxable per new IRS guidelines
25. Re: Hahaha no... by shaitand · 2017-12-20 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  "Technically, it probably isn't a Ponzi scheme. There are many similarities, though."
  
  Not really, simply because early investors get rewarded doesn't make it anymore of a Ponzi scheme than Microsoft.
26. Re: Hahaha no... by shaitand · 2017-12-20 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  And it can collapse. Bitcoin has been going through a bubble and collapse cycle for over 10 years, it never collapses to below the rate at the beginning of the cycle and the subsequent cycle will go higher. This is only a problem if you are looking to get rich quick on the current phase of the cycle. This can and should continue until there is no longer a large enough new influx of investment to cause a "bubble", at some point the price is high enough that the adjustments due to speculation at the moment are noise compared to the boulder that is the price of bitcoin.
  
  As for how high that price should be... just like most things we speculate on, the only relationship between the speculative price and the underlying thing being speculated on is psychological. Stock prices don't relate to the profitability of the underlying company except in the sense that people speculating choose to link them... a stock doesn't always move in proportion to the actual performance of the underlying company, all you can really count on is that people will generally sell if they think the company is doing poorly and buy if they think it is doing well and others agreeing makes them right whether they are actually right or not.
  
  In reality, the force that often drives the speculative value of something be it MSFT or BTC is the amount of unrealized profit and loss. The higher the price goes, the more temptation there is to realize those profits, unrealized losses on the other hand are the bedrock of a commodity, these are people who value the asset at a price higher than the current speculative price and aren't about to sell if they can help it. As the price goes up the unrealized losses first negate then become unrealized profit... so long as profit is occasionally realized all will be well because whoever buys the asset is neutral and invested at the current price but with less commitment.
  
  So as you can see, the actual number doesn't really matter and doesn't need to relate to the underlying economy at all, all that really matters at any moment is unrealized profit, loss, and neutrality where the weight of that unrealized profit and loss reflect commitment. There is a huge amount of unrealized profit because bitcoin swung up so hard but if bitcoin swings down hard there will be a huge amount of unrealized loss as a consequence, this is the invisible inverse bubble and when it "pops" the bubble will be another big swing up.
27. Re: Hahaha no... by shaitand · 2017-12-20 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  Like any speculative market because that is what we are really talking about, not Bitcoin itself, the value really rests in the realized profit. Any value Bitcoin has had before it can have again because the "new investment" had to exist to bring it there before. All realized profit on Bitcoin represents incentive to invest again, if you made money on it before you believe there is money to make again and so are likely to reinvest. If there is a huge amount of unrealized profit there will eventually be realization of that profit and that will create a huge amount of unrealized loss causing people to cling to their BTC... the people who realized that profit will invest again. At no point does everyone go broke or the value of BTC become zero.
28. Re: Hahaha no... by Mr307 · 2017-12-20 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  Well thats a silly comparison, at the very least 1 of the things is actually a thing, the other is probably a semi random looking hexadecimal string, I can get lots of those near instantly, are they intrinsically valuable and nice to look at as a painting?
29. Re: Hahaha no... by Mr307 · 2017-12-20 07:53 · Score: 1
  
  Normally speculation is actually done on real life things, not imaginary 'stuff'. If you speculated on Tulip bulbs back when or other things today, you may actually have received a bulb or whatever in the end.
  It could be argued that it would be better to speculate on custom built serialized super special rubber duckies, because at the end you may actually get some of them in a box rather than nothing.
  Then just think about all the fun you could have in the bath tub?!
30. Re: Hahaha no... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 10:54 · Score: 0
  
  oh hey look, another /. poster who doesn't know the difference among ponzi, pyramid, mlm, and bubbles!
  color me surprised /s
31. Re: Hahaha no... by shaitand · 2017-12-20 20:18 · Score: 1
  
  "Normally speculation is actually done on real life things, not imaginary 'stuff'."
  
  Wrong, speculation is done on some sort of virtual/logical thing we pretend is connected to a real life thing and in some cases like certain commodities you refer to there is some level of connection. For the most part though the biggest connection is the pretending, so that when something happens to the underlying thing we perceive is as being negative we sell and when something good happens we buy and we could all do that with the communally agreed upon AT&T banana just as easily as a stock certificate issued by AT&T. The actual numbers are pretty much entirely imaginary stuff, like you said, the guy who has the biggest impact on the price of a tulip bulb (if we traded commodities on tulip bulbs) and potentially gets stuck with it in the end doesn't actually want any tulip bulbs just to legally rip off people who are trading them legitimately.
  
  But speculation is done on corporations, mortgages, bonds, currencies... all of these are purely logical and intangible things that are no more "real" than a Bitcoin. They've just existed longer than any of us and started on pen and paper so we think of them as real life things... go ahead, bronze me up a mortgage and set it on my shelf and I'll admit I'm mistaken... not some document signed by parties describing and defining a mortgage, the actual real life tangible thing that document describes that is a mortgage.
FUCK ALL REPUBLICANS (INCLUDING VOTERS) by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:04 · Score: -1

The Senate is voting this evening on a tax reform bill designed to screw over the poor and middle class. Republicans are busy increasing the debt and harming most Americans, so they can help their wealthy donors. Fuck all of you who voted for these bastards.
1. Re:FUCK ALL REPUBLICANS (INCLUDING VOTERS) by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 15:13 · Score: -1
  
  As a member of the middle class, my taxes are going to be reduced.
  Sorry you can't afford your $3m two bedroom house in California anymore though, I guess. Not really sorry.
2. Re:FUCK ALL REPUBLICANS (INCLUDING VOTERS) by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 17:14 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  The government is handing the American people a credit card with a high interest rate. Some of our taxes will go down until 2025. Then they will go back up. In the meantime we will be adding over a trillion dollars to our national debt. Money which will need to be paid back plus interest in the future via taxes. It's short term gains for long term pain.
  captcha: looted
3. Re:FUCK ALL REPUBLICANS (INCLUDING VOTERS) by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 00:51 · Score: 0
  
  i'm going to give your ass a pumping
  pump pump pump pump
16000, 8500, and 750 at the same time? by RhettLivingston · 2017-12-19 13:45 · Score: 4, Interesting

Coinbase is looking really weird today. Many times I've noticed the various offerings at odd numbers on an individual basis like $15,999.99 (bitcoin), $8499.98 (bitcoin cash), and $749.99 (ethereum). Just a few moments ago, I saw this kind of number, as if there is some effect causing them to trade at around two significant digits, on all three simultaneously. I don't know what to make of this but can't imagine it being random chance. Does anyone have some technical insight here?
For those with their bets spread, this is an awesome day! It hurts not one bit for bitcoin to go down a bit if the net effect is positive. The total value of bitcoin and bitcoin cash for those who've held onto theirs since August is now at $24500!
1. Re:16000, 8500, and 750 at the same time? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 14:02 · Score: 1
  
  People set the ask prices. People know other people are fairly stupid and think numbers like 15,999.99 sound a lot smaller than $16,000. Once the numbers are that big, I would be surprised to see prices that didn't end in 99 or 95.
  Captcha: defraud
2. Re:16000, 8500, and 750 at the same time? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 14:39 · Score: 0
  
  I think they messed up the pricing on BCH off the start, it's now sitting $3,200. Looks like GDAX halted trading on that too.
3. Re:16000, 8500, and 750 at the same time? by Zocalo · 2017-12-19 21:07 · Score: 1
  
  It think it's more likely people are doing this to try and get ahead of the queue for any sell orders compared to people who went for a round number like $16,000. Given the latency in the BTC system and potential for profit-taking and accompanying price falls at each major dollar amount milestone that could make quite a difference in your bottom line when it all shakes out - especially if it results in a sell instead of being left holding the bag and praying for a recovery after a major price correction.
  
  All assuming that the exchange doesn't crash and your trade goes through at all, of course.
  
  --
  UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
4. Re:16000, 8500, and 750 at the same time? by Megol · 2017-12-19 22:50 · Score: 1
  
  Stupidity have nothing to do with it but yes it works. Even a person that see that obvious and intentional reduction and knows that there is (virtually) no actual reduction in price still feels more compelled to buy.
  Human thinking is strange and marketing have been using the quirks of it for a long time.
... and immediately crashes by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 13:52 · Score: 1

I have about 10 BCH in there right now and it's currently priced at 8500, and I can't sell any of it because trading is completely dead.
Way to go, morons... hey let's add BCH when we're already being crushed under the load of the Bitcoin boom...
What could possibly go wrong?
More like from the who-gives-a-shit department by SlaveToTheGrind · 2017-12-19 13:57 · Score: 1

<eom>
1. Re:More like from the who-gives-a-shit department by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 18:48 · Score: 0
  
  Hurts?
It is both by SuperKendall · 2017-12-19 15:04 · Score: 2, Informative

it's an investment rather than a functional currency
How is it not functionally a currency if I can buy things with it?
If people stop buying BTC it will not matter because there will always be some level of trade where people are buying things with BTC and thus exchanging BTC for real value. Again, a functional currency.
The reason it works is because people the world over back it, not just a single nation - which is why the valuation you noted is still quite low.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 15:52 · Score: 1
  
  Functionally it is a currency. However with its fees it is unrealistic to use as one for small every day purchases
  Go buy a $1 candy bar with an equivalent amount of BTC, and it will probably cost you an equivalent to $20-30 in fees to transfer that $1 equivalent BTC to someone else's wallet.
  You could realistically use it as a currency for large transactions like buying a car directly in BTC if you can find someone selling a car that will take BTC instead of USD.
  I just moved over 5k USD equivalent BTC from an offline wallet into coinbase tonight and it cost about $40ish in fees.
  The problem with BTC as an everyday currency is the fees aren't tied to the transaction amount, The fees are tied to the size of the transaction in bytes, so there isn't a huge difference in the fees to move $1 USD and $5K USD in equivalent BTC
2. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 16:05 · Score: 0
  
  Therefore, dogecoin for free:
  http://freedoge.co.in/?r=15138...
  while away your time, accumulate dogecoin, exchange for eth, btc, z, whatever....profit!
3. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 17:21 · Score: 0
  
  http://freedoge.co.in/?r=2445
  My ref number is lower than yours.
4. Re:It is both by Dog-Cow · 2017-12-19 21:09 · Score: 1
  
  You can find people who need potatoes that will take some in exchange for whatever. That doesn't make potatoes a functional currency.
5. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 21:25 · Score: 0
  
  How is it not functionally a currency if I can buy things with it?
  I can't use it to buy gas, pay my rent, pay for food at the grocery store or a restaurant, or buy things off amazon.
  It is not functional as a currency
  However, as long as people think they can make millions by investing in it, then others can sell it to make millions.
6. Re:It is both by war4peace · 2017-12-19 21:50 · Score: 1
  
  My landlord knows I work in IT and offered to take my rent in bitcoin. I told him I don't own any.
  Amazon doesn't accept bitcoin but many other online stores do. Coinmap will help you: https://coinmap.org/welcome/
  
  --
  ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
7. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 22:13 · Score: 1
  
  How is it not functionally a currency if I can buy things with it?
  Well, you can buy things with it only in theory. In practice:
  -You don't want to buy things with it as the transaction fees are astronomical (the other day I was quoted 50% as recommended standard fee for the transaction to go through in several hours), and the price goes up daily.
  -If fees were controlled and price was somewhat stabilized so it made sense to buy things with it, well, then you still couldn't do it if many other people tried purchases as well. At 4-5 transactions/sec globally it is not a serious transaction system.
8. Re:It is both by thegarbz · 2017-12-19 22:33 · Score: 1
  
  How is it not functionally a currency if I can buy things with it?
  Is that sarcasm?
  There's precisely two things that I can purchase with bitcoins: Sweet and Fuck All. Most attempts at using bitcoin as a currency as either been in one of the following forms:
  a) Silly marketing: e.g. Porche
  b) A failure: e.g. Steam
  c) Illegal stuff: e.g. About the only things that people are still using bitcoin as currency for.
9. Re:It is both by Kiuas · 2017-12-19 23:44 · Score: 2
  
  How is it not functionally a currency if I can buy things with it?
  You missed the point he was making.
  A currency =! a functional currency. The Venezuelan bolivar is functionally a currency, but because of the hyperinflation that has made it worthless it's not a functional currency and the people have by and large transitioned away from it and are operating using other currencies, mainly the dollar.
  Bitcoin is certainly in a similar situation but for different reasons (not inflation). The amount of actual vendors (outside the dark/grey market(s) in Tor which constitute the majority of BCs current usage) is so tiny that it's de facto impossible to buy nearly anything with BC in the real world. It's a currency still, but because of the low amount of practical uses, the highly unstable value and the insanely slow transaction speed (and cost), it's a very very dysfunctional one.
  I couldn't buy a carton of milk with BC from a store even if I wanted to, and even if I could there's no benefit for me in doing so as compared to using regular cash.
  
  If people stop buying BTC it will not matter because there will always be some level of trade where people are buying things with BTC
  This is massively incorrect for 2 reasons. Firstly, If people stop buying BC that means BC will lose its market value which means there's no reason for anyone to accept BC as a payment. If no-one's buying or selling bitcoin, there's no reason why anyone will accept it as payment for actual goods because there's no guarantee whatsoever that you will be able to get anything with the coins you receive as payment. Imagine if I wanted to buy your car with BC. Say your car's worth around 15 000 $. Okay, with current BC market price that means I could, if you agree, pay you about 1 bitcoin for it and it'd be a solid deal for both of us. However, in 10 years if no-one's exchanging BC for real world currencies you'd certainly not agree to the trade with just 1 BC. Would you agree to it at 100 BC? 1000? How do you measure the amount of coins you'd need for the trade to be fair? You can't. For any trade to be feasible, you have to have a market value measurable in other currencies, because without it just saying. "I will pay you N bitcoins for your car" is a meaningless statement that doesn't convey how much value is actually being transferred to the seller.
  Secondly and more importantly, if no-one's buying or selling BC the mining infrastructure will collapse making BC transactions impossible. Running the mining operation is insanely energy intensive and only gets more intensive with time as the calculations required to maintain the blockchain get increasingly complex. Right now people are doing this because the value of the coins they receive as payment for mining are worth several times more than the electricity/hardware costs to run the operation. If the market collapses or BC price drops significantly, the mining will become unprofitable, ie. running the mining will cost you more than you get out of it as a reward*. The moment this happens there's no economic incentive for anyone to be running BC mining, which will make any transactions impossible,
  *=This is already actually the case with home PC mining. Running the mining on standard machines will currently cost you way more than you get out of it because of the increased complexity, which is why the entire mining industry is now de facto centralized to the hands of large commercial operators mostly in Asia.
  
  --
  "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
10. Re:It is both by Opportunist · 2017-12-19 23:45 · Score: 1
  
  This is basically the problem, you can't use it on small transactions because the fees are prohibitively high, and using it on large transactions requires someone willing to sell you something with a meaningful price tag for bitcoins.
  I mean, would you sell your house for bitcoins? We've already belittled and ridiculed people who mortgaged theirs to buy BCs...
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
11. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 01:47 · Score: 0
  
  Bitcoin is useless for payment purposes. The one thing that you can do with Bitcoin that you can do with nothing else is securely transfer value in large amounts across the internet without a central authority (like a bank). I'll let you figure out yourself who needs that.
12. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 01:50 · Score: 0
  
  One would think that the Hotbed of Left Wing Entrepreneurism, the SF East Bay, people would be swarming to take one's Bitcoins. Coinmap would make that thinking quite mistaken. There are a couple of Trick-Cyclists, somebody who puts Linux boxes together, and a Car Importer who can't sell their Cars in California. Oh, and a couple of Tattoo Parlors and Vaping suppliers. That is about it.
  There are about 2.5 Million people in the SF East Bay, and maybe a dozen of them want Bitcoins.
  I love the smell of Bitcoin burning in the morning. It smells like... victory.
13. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 02:11 · Score: 0
  
  24 hour average transaction fee prices[1]:
  BTC: $94.23/KB
  BCH: $0.44/KB
  an average transaction is about 600 bytes
  If your complaint is fees, then you should try Bitcoin Cash. High fees on BTC is why BCH is doing so well.
  1. https://fork.lol/
14. Re:It is both by omnichad · 2017-12-20 02:15 · Score: 1
  
  You should get that in writing and make sure the rent rate is not based on the BTC to USD conversion rate. You might get by paying 20 cents a month in rent under a legal contract once it crashes.
15. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 02:23 · Score: 0
  
  I'll be selling my BCH off. With all the scummy stuff I have been hearing about the folks behind BCH.
  Based on what I was seeing on gdax last night when they 1st enabled BCH, A lot of people are prepared to dump it as soon as they can. The sell orders were piling up, however none of them could be completed since it wasn't fully enabled.
16. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 02:37 · Score: 0
  
  Not having it locked to the BTC to USD conversion would be the dumbest thing possible. BTC could go either way, but based off the last several months performance, it is still on it way up. If you lock it to just a specific BTC amount, your rent that is $1k equivalent today might be $10k equivalent a few months from now..
17. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-20 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  Someone who sold their house for BTCs a few weeks ago would have effectively gotten 4x the asking price.
  
  What I don't understand is why all these updates were called "Bitcoin Cash" or something similar like they are some kind of new coin, they are just updates to Bitcoin, the result is "Bitcoin" with a slight version number increase not Bitcoin Cash or segwitz or whatever. EVERY update to Bitcoin is a "fork" in the past we haven't given them new names.
18. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-20 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  Nobody "needs money" like they need potatoes, they instead know they can get what they need or want or get something closer to it by buying something with that money, that is what makes it a functional currency. Whether or not they buy some other kind of money is irrelevant. If I want to buy something from Russia either the guy I'm buying from is going to immediately buy Rubles or my transaction processor is going to do so on my behalf (like Coinbase does for merchants). The same is true for a Russian buying from me.
  
  That doesn't mean either isn't a real functional currency. I would however agree that the transaction fees have become a bit of a bug in the base Bitcoin. I anticipated $10,000 Bitcoin and that the fees would be inappropriate at that point, the developers apparently did not.
19. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-20 04:35 · Score: 1
  
  Can you use some form of fiat for those things because you can buy fiat with Bitcoin. I can't pay my rent in Italy with my USD royalty checks either but I can buy euros with USD.
20. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-20 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  You do know Bitcoin has been in a cycle of bubbling up high and then crashing down... but not to where it started... then a gap and then repeat with the bubble/crash/gap length proportionally larger for over ten years right? It is almost like the entire thing was built on math and is extremely predictable with an algorithm. If $20k was the peak we'll probably see Bitcoin "crash" to about $6-8k then stabilize around $10. This will then be followed by a gap of around 5yrs during which time investors will gradually gain enough confidence that Bitcoin isn't actually going anywhere and it will slowly increase. At some point that growth will hit critical mass, people will determine the previous round of sell off wasn't appropriate and realize there is now even less Bitcoin floating around. We'll then see new record bitcoin prices.
21. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-20 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  "At 4-5 transactions/sec globally it is not a serious transaction system."
  
  That is ridiculous. Bitcoin is definitely not limited to 4-5 transactions/sec. All the miners out there are processing transactions in parallel, the delays don't come from the transaction processing rate but from the process that is used to determine when to call a block of transactions "done" and attach it to the blockchain.
22. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-20 04:55 · Score: 1
  
  You do know a currency conversion doesn't negate a purchase right? If my dollars get converted to rubles to buy your caviar my dollars still worked to buy the caviar. Similarly if my BTC gets converted to rubles to buy your caviar my dollars still worked to buy the caviar.
  
  You can buy everything you can buy with a fiat currency with bitcoin because you can buy all the fiat currencies with bitcoin. Best of all there is little to no chance of having your bitcoin stolen by customs when you travel internationally.
23. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-20 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  "Secondly and more importantly, if no-one's buying or selling BC the mining infrastructure will collapse making BC transactions impossible. Running the mining operation is insanely energy intensive and only gets more intensive with time as the calculations required to maintain the blockchain get increasingly complex."
  
  You aren't following all this through. The more miners who quit mining, the less complex the calculations required to unlock a block become. The complexity is almost entirely artificial and scaled by an algorithm to the amounting of mining power on the network. If bitcoin goes down, fewer people will mine, making mining yield a higher return in BTC for those who are left. Maybe you don't think it will work out but the system was definitely devised by some people with their mathematical proofs in order and has been working perfectly bubble or crash for over a decade.
  
  "Firstly, If people stop buying BC that means BC will lose its market value which means there's no reason for anyone to accept BC as a payment."
  
  Market value is not binary. There is no point in talking about any outcome should EVERYONE stop buying BC or BC losing its ENTIRE market value because those are impossible outcomes. Bitcoin can drop, Bitcoin could become less liquid but bitcoin is never going to zero.
  
  I admit I don't quite know how this Bitcoin Cash thing changes the equation. Every change to Bitcoin is a fork... nobody has ever called the result something besides "Bitcoin" before. Just like any transaction submitted for the blockchain, if the majority of people accepted the update and used it that fork became "Bitcoin." So if we are pretending "Bitcoin Cash" isn't just another proposed updated for "Bitcoin" but rather something distinct I'm not sure how that impacts things. Traditionally, if most of us think the new update is superior the others have no choice but to follow and "Bitcoin Cash" would simply be another name for "Bitcoin."
24. Re:It is both by omnichad · 2017-12-20 05:37 · Score: 1
  
  Not if the contract still allowed the same flat dollar rate. The tenant would be able to choose the best-performing currency to pay in.
25. Re:It is both by war4peace · 2017-12-20 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  Nah, he only wanted to pay him X BTC every month, where X is the amount of BTC the rent is worth at that moment. So in terms of Euro (which my rent is due to be paid in) there would be no difference anyway.
  
  --
  ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
26. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 08:15 · Score: 0
  
  Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash are two different things.
  Bitcoin Cash is a fork off the Bitcoin software. Just like how you can fork open source software.
  Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash currently are both running and are totally separate from each other.
  When they forked the Bitcoin Cash software, they also forked the Bitcoin block chain to go along with it. So in essence everyone who owned some Bitcoin before the fork also owns an equal amount of Bitcoin Cash. You can move/spend do whatever with either crypto currency and the transactions are independent
  So basically in the end the folks behind Bitcoin Cash made money appear out of thin air.
27. Re:It is both by F.Ultra · 2017-12-20 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Because with the previous forks the new version was the new Bitcoin and the old was defunct but with Bitcoin Cash you have a fork that lives in parallel with ordinary Bitcoin so they are two different entities more like say US Dollars and Canadian Dollars.
28. Re:It is both by F.Ultra · 2017-12-20 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  potatoes where a functional currency long before we invented fiat currencies (and for a longer time period as well).
29. Re:It is both by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 08:27 · Score: 0
  
  I bought a set of lenses for my phone ($10) on overstock.com a couple of weeks ago. There was a $3 (in btc) fee to move that bitcoin to their wallet. So what are you talking from, experience, or your ass?
30. Re:It is both by thegarbz · 2017-12-20 20:59 · Score: 1
  
  If my dollars get converted to rubles to buy your caviar my dollars still worked to buy the caviar.
  
  If I don't do that currency conversion for you then by defacto you're not buying anything with your currency.
31. Re:It is both by thegarbz · 2017-12-20 21:00 · Score: 1
  
  errr yeah don't talk and post at the same time: by definition, not by defacto. lol
32. Re:It is both by torkus · 2017-12-21 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  Not ridiculous. Not untrue.
  You have no idea how the bitcoin blockchain works it seems.
  First, each block is limited in size and each transaction takes a portion of that. Therefore, there are a finite amount of transactions per block. Blocks don't come when they're 'full' but instead when they're mined (i.e. someone finds the next hash) which happens at a fairly stable cadence.
  And...when you combine the rate of blocks with the number of transactions that will fit into them. 4-5 transactions/sec is what the blockchain supports/allows/does.
  For some further education ... miners don't 'process transactions' much less do it in parallel. They look for the next hash and, when found, publish the next block that includes some of the pending transactions, but not all of them.
  
  --
  You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
33. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-21 04:53 · Score: 1
  
  "First, each block is limited in size..."
  
  No, it isn't, that is an implementation limitation put in place initially to prevent spamming and DDOS not a limitation of Bitcoin. Bitcoin Cash is not a new coin, it is just an update, the same as past updates, that raises this implementation limit the result of doing so isn't something else it is still just Bitcoin.
  
  "Blocks don't come when they're 'full' but instead when they're mined"
  
  Yes, the guessing of the hash and verification by other miners is the process that causes the delay.
  
  "For some further education ... miners don't 'process transactions' much less do it in parallel."
  
  Your education seems to be lacking. Miners do in fact process transactions. Finding the next hash requires doing so, you can't do one without doing the other.
34. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-21 04:57 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, if I can't buy Rubles with my currency then by definition I can't buy anything with my currency. Since I can do so readily with either Bitcoin or Dollars and will continue to be able to do so for the foreseeable future whether the rates change on the speculative market or not that is a hypothetical without much attachment to reality.
35. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-21 05:02 · Score: 1
  
  A fork always lives in parallel with the old fork. Consensus causes us to converge on one or the other. There is nothing about the block size update in Bitcoin Cash to suggest any reason to stay with the outdated version of Bitcoin.
36. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-21 05:23 · Score: 1
  
  "We've already belittled and ridiculed people who mortgaged theirs to buy BCs..."
  
  And as it turns out the people who did so are the ones who deserve the ridicule. The people who mortgaged their house to buy BTC have paid off their mortgage and upgraded to a beachside mansion at this point.
  
  "small transactions because the fees are prohibitively high, and using it on large transactions"
  
  Let's keep some perspective of the scale we are talking about. The fee is to speed up your transaction and there are different levels but basically we are talking about an optional $17 at the moment. On a $1000 transaction that is 1.7% which is lower than a credit card with a delay of 20min before there is little to no risk of chargeback which is about 90 days - 19 minutes faster than a credit card, give it another ten minutes and it is objectively safer than valid certified funds or a postal money order. That isn't buying a car or buying a house like some are talking about, nowhere near it, that is a car rental or hotel stay. On a $500 transaction that is 3.4% which is about the same as Paypal and the same timeframe relation as the credit card chargeback/certified funds/etc.
37. Re:It is both by F.Ultra · 2017-12-21 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  And the previous forks was done with the consensus that the old forks should die and the new one would be Bitcoin while with Bitcoin Cash the community was divided and thus the consensus was to let the fork live it's own separate life. So with this fork there where also a fork in the community so to speak.
38. Re:It is both by shaitand · 2017-12-21 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  That remains to be seen.
How does giving people more money screw them? by SuperKendall · 2017-12-19 15:09 · Score: 0

If you look at the chart of who gets larger refunds, you'll see an awful lot of green. The only people who pay more are the very rich (didn't all of you want them to pay more??) plus some kind of unicorn group of poor people who make below 40k/year but have more than 40% deductions (who is that anyway? Curious who that would be).
From a merely tactical point go view I think it's a really bad idea for all you liberals to scream so loudly about how unfair this is when the only people really hurt are people who own $1 million+ in real estate. I mean, anyone can plainly see that so don't you think THEY will think you are insane for screaming about what turns out to be totally fake news? When the jobs start flowing because companies have so much more money to spend, do you seriously think people will be mad about that?

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:How does giving people more money screw them? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 17:08 · Score: 0
  
  This libtard, cough, wonders who is going to pay for it? What happened to fiscal responsibility? (Which was one place I could fee alignment with GOP?) It will be done, in the end, by printing more money which generally benefits the wealthy.
2. Re:How does giving people more money screw them? by shaitand · 2017-12-20 06:08 · Score: 1
  
  "who make below 40k/year but have more than 40% deductions (who is that anyway? Curious who that would be)"
  
  The most wealthy of people who have most of their money tied to a for profit corporation. They simply leave most of their wealth in the corporation, whatever they take out they can offset with things like charitable donations of stock. They only have income if they pay themselves a dividend or sell some stock.
scambase by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 15:13 · Score: 1

Avoid coinbase if you are Australian. I imagine this applies to many other countries too, they explicitly block you from selling but you won't find that out till you have something to sell. coinbase is basically a scam in most of the world
1. Re:scambase by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 15:28 · Score: 0
  
  weird. never had an issue selling
2. Re:scambase by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 15:57 · Score: 0
  
  obviously not Australian then as they specifically forbid it and give you a message saying sorry it isn't supported for your country but you can register to be notified when we allow it.
3. Re:scambase by RzTen1 · 2017-12-19 19:35 · Score: 1
  
  Do they also prevent you from transferring it? I could see if they blocked payments but blocking transfers would be super shady.
4. Re:scambase by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 00:50 · Score: 0
  
  sounds like someone needs a vpn
5. Re:scambase by Cro+Magnon · 2017-12-20 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  So far, I haven't had any trouble transferring. Haven't tried to sell yet.
  
  --
  Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
6. Re:scambase by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 03:15 · Score: 0
  
  A VPN is not going to solve this. Coinbase requires ID and SSN to use their platform. You have to send in photos of your ID, front and back. A photo of yourself. Basically a similar procedure ID verification wise as you need to open a bank account in the US.
  In the end if you are going to be trading in and out with your local currency, you should be using an exchange on your countries own soil. Things are going to be much easier and smoother.
  Not to mention if things go wrong you have some legal recourse. If coinbase choose to lock up all your funds because you are foreign, you basically have no recourse to get your money back.
  That said you should still be able to transfer your BTC and BCH out of coinbase to your own wallet or to the receiving address of another exchange that will let you trade in/out of your local currency.
7. Re:scambase by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 04:42 · Score: 0
  
  Same thing in Canada for the last 6 months now. :(
  They said they were working on it... but obviously not very hard.
Free Money? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 15:28 · Score: 0

So people just had their investments doubled? Am I understanding that correctly?
1. Re:Free Money? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 15:30 · Score: 0
  
  Not doubled. You just got 1 BCH for every BTC you had in Coinbase during the fork on August 1st. 1 BCH is = to about 1/5th of a btc right now
Not faring too well? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-19 17:41 · Score: 0

with the other two cryptocurrencies supported via Coinbase not faring too well either.
Litecoin was under 100 USD two weeks ago and is over 300 USD currently.... That seems pretty good to me! Etherum is also higher than it was two weeks ago.
1. Re:Not faring too well? by omnichad · 2017-12-20 02:28 · Score: 1
  
  Much cheaper to do a pump and dump scheme with lower valued currencies. BTC is already crowded. Ripple effects of the bubble - crash must be eminent.
2. Re:Not faring too well? by ArchieBunker · 2017-12-20 02:42 · Score: 1
  
  Oh yeah going to crash any day now when bitcoin is $20. Going to crash soon at $200. Going to crash at $2000. Surely it will crash at $20,000... Nope hasn't crashed yet. Never quite hit $20k but at $17.2k currently.
  
  --
  Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
3. Re:Not faring too well? by omnichad · 2017-12-20 02:52 · Score: 1
  
  The size of the pyramid doesn't change whether it's a pyramid scheme. As soon as the top cashes out, it's all over.
4. Re:Not faring too well? by DontBeAMoran · 2017-12-20 03:35 · Score: 1
  
  The difference is that today's problem is the transaction fees and the transaction delays. It's not a "bubble" problem, it's the "we can't even cash out" problem and confidence in Bitcoin is going down pretty fast.
  The real question is, which coin will replace it? Bitcoin Cash? Litecoin? Dash? Monero? ... Dogecoin?
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
5. Re:Not faring too well? by thorntonmark · 2017-12-20 03:52 · Score: 1
  
  The real question is, which coin will replace it? Bitcoin Cash? Litecoin? Dash? Monero? ... Dogecoin?
  USD
6. Re: Not faring too well? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 04:21 · Score: 0
  
  IOTA
  No miners. No fees.
7. Re: Not faring too well? by DontBeAMoran · 2017-12-20 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  IOTA has centralized control and huge security problems from what I've read so far.
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
8. Re:Not faring too well? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 15:12 · Score: 0
  
  Like CB radio, blockchain currency works fine until too many people start using it. Decentralized networks can't scale, and centralized networks always end up controlled by the government.
  The collapse of the CB radio fad was a relief to truckers who needed open channels to warn each other of road hazards. So too will blockchains revert to their core demographic, i.e. criminals. And they'll all be using Monero because its ledger is completely encrypted and untraceable.
Bitcoin now has an official song by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 00:35 · Score: -1

here
Thanks Obama by tacokill · 2017-12-20 05:36 · Score: 1

Don't forget to look at the Obama years. Talking about the debt and adding "trillions" isn't complete without an analysis of his tenure and what happened to the national debt under his watch.
1. Re:Thanks Obama by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-20 07:51 · Score: 0
  
  Note that when it is said that this bill adds $1.5 trillion to the debt, they don't mean that that is all that is going to be added. That is just the increase over a pace that is already forecast to have no trouble exceeding the Obama years. Instead of trying to turn it around, Republicans are just adding fuel to the fire. But, it's okay. They'll just continue to finance it with book manipulations until the dollar breaks.
2. Re:Thanks Obama by quantaman · 2017-12-20 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget to look at the Obama years. Talking about the debt and adding "trillions" isn't complete without an analysis of his tenure and what happened to the national debt under his watch.
  Obama got a huge debt due to inheriting a major economic meltdown and two wars.
  Trump is about to incur a massive debt with a booming economy as the wars tail off.
  And, as a member of the middle class, look at the long term picture. The debt incurred by the tax cut is "only" a trillion dollars because all the middle class tax cuts are set to expire. Of course, it's the GOP's full intention to re-instate the cuts when they come up, or, if the Democrats are in power and let them expire, blame the Democrats for raising taxes.
  Either way, if the cuts expire this bill raises your taxes, and if the cuts don't expire it costs way more than a trillion. Whichever way it goes it's a pretty disgustingly cynical way to do politics.
  
  --
  I stole this Sig
A rising tide floats all boats by SuperKendall · 2017-12-20 06:35 · Score: 1

This libtard, cough, wonders who is going to pay for it?
I'm so sure you were asking that question about Obamacare, or at any time in the past eight years as spending and deficits skyrocketed. So your concern trolling looks especially hypocritical...
The obvious answer to your fairly 'tard question is that a greatly improved economy brought about by people keeping, and then spending more of their own money always increases tax revenues beyond the losses from dropping the rate, not to mention the HUGE windfall the government gets from companies like Apple finally repatriating large sums of money back to the U.S. and being taxed on it. None of that is factored in.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
DIY Cryptocurrency Mining... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-21 03:36 · Score: 0

If you want mine your own cryptocurrency, you need a motherboard with 19 PCIe 1X slots to plug in 19 GPUs and a couple of 1200W PSUs.