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Russian Submarines are 'Prowling Around' Undersea Internet Cables (thehill.com)

An anonymous reader quotes The Hill: Russian submarine activity around undersea cables that provide internet and other communications connections to North America and Europe has raised concerns among NATO officials, according to The Washington Post. NATO officials say an unprecedented amount of Russian deep-sea activity, especially around undersea internet lines, constitutes a newfound "vulnerability" for NATO nations. "We are now seeing Russian underwater activity in the vicinity of undersea cables that I don't believe we have ever seen," said NATO submarine forces commander and U.S. Navy Rear Adm. Andrew Lennon. "Russia is clearly taking an interest in NATO and NATO nations' undersea infrastructure."
"The Russian Defense Ministry did not respond to a request for comment about the cables," reports the Washington Post, adding that "prowling around" the cables "could give the Kremlin the power to sever or tap into vital data lines, officials said."

They cite the commander of NATO's submarine forces, who says "We know that these auxiliary submarines are designed to work on the ocean floor, and they're transported by the mother ship, and we believe they may be equipped to manipulate objects on the ocean floor."

19 of 175 comments (clear)

  1. Why is Russia suddenly so much cooler than us? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Man, they've really been kicking sand in our faces lately. It's somewhat embarassing.

    1. Re:Why is Russia suddenly so much cooler than us? by gtall · · Score: 2

      Really? Look at their mortality rate. They aren't cool.

    2. Re: Why is Russia suddenly so much cooler than us? by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 2

      Umm. No.

      Russia can never become a 3rd-world country. They're 2nd-world and always will be, so long as they exist. That's literally the definition of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world countries:

      1st world: The US, UK, and their allies.
      2nd world: Russia and its satellite states
      3rd world: Everyone else.

      The only way Russia can cease to be 2nd world and enter the 3rd world is for it to collapse entirely and cease to exist as Russia.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
  2. US used to (still does?) tap Russian cables.. by TigerPlish · · Score: 5, Informative

    The US used to (still does, I bet) tap Russian cables. Turnabout is fair play?

    Read "Blind Man's Bluff" for stories of us playing all sorts of crazy sub games against the Russians.

    Kinda feels like we've got a new Cold War, don't it? Only now it's an Information / Data / Commerce thing, not a Nukes thing.

    --
    The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
    1. Re:US used to (still does?) tap Russian cables.. by Kenja · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do unto others as you forbade them doing unto you!

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:US used to (still does?) tap Russian cables.. by currently_awake · · Score: 2

      The Russians are probably trying to trace how/where the USA taps undersea cables. Following those taps would tell them where the American intelligence bases are located around the world, and help them develop countermeasures against anyone tapping their cables.

    3. Re:US used to (still does?) tap Russian cables.. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      The US used to (still does, I bet) tap Russian cables. Turnabout is fair play?

      Read "Blind Man's Bluff" for stories of us playing all sorts of crazy sub games against the Russians.

      Kinda feels like we've got a new Cold War, don't it? Only now it's an Information / Data / Commerce thing, not a Nukes thing.

      Besides, this activity has been vetted and approved by the Republican party. It's part of th eparty platfoem now.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    4. Re:US used to (still does?) tap Russian cables.. by AHuxley · · Score: 4, Informative

      The West likes to think nobody can recall Ivy Bells.
      That was within territorial waters and off limits to foreign vessels.
      Operation Ivy Bells https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:US used to (still does?) tap Russian cables.. by mikeiver1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Was going to bring up just this same thing... We tapped the undersea cable in the sea of Okhotsk in the early 70s, operation Ivy bells was the name of it. So they are sniffing around the cables? Big whoopy. The fact is that they can monitor/ interrupt data just fine by compromising the network infrastructure that the internet runs on. I suspect that they are looking at the easiest locations to sever the cables in a time of war. Remember that the Chinese are also out there in the cyber war arena as well. Throw in the North Koreans and the Iranians and the environment is pretty grim. The fact is that they are all facing the American industrial and military as targets of their cyber efforts to even the technological fields and to be ready for possible disruption. We are good but they are many. That and we train them in our schools and then send them home...

  3. Re: Why is Russia suddenly so much cooler than us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That was the point he was making. Russia does seem much cooler.

  4. Just another chapter or banter in this game by no-body · · Score: 3, Interesting

    towards well, your guess as good as mine..

    Fact is that nervousness is increasing with all the little acts some "not so smart" people are undertaking.

    How did wars start? Some event, be it a shot or some other rocket started, when the exciting level is pushed up and the spark ignites.
    Are people learning from the past, looking at the current actors, definitely no. All feeding their own insanity and the millions either seduced by emotional excitement or staying remote in disgust are suffering from those the games those jerks play.

    Truly amazing that this nonsense still happens.

    System failure, reset & reboot, but on what hardware???

  5. More concerning by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The US used to (still does, I bet) tap Russian cables. Turnabout is fair play?

    Read "Blind Man's Bluff" for stories of us playing all sorts of crazy sub games against the Russians.

    Kinda feels like we've got a new Cold War, don't it? Only now it's an Information / Data / Commerce thing, not a Nukes thing.

    A more concerning question is: Have they installed cable severing devices that can be remotely triggered? I suppose a remotely-triggered bomb would be easy enough, but it might be something more sophisticated, such as a method to turn off a repeater and then turn it back on again later.

    If we ever get into a war with a country that has submarines (or Disney, for that matter), expect intercontinental internet and phone service to be gone for the duration.

    This would be a crippling economic tactic, so long as the US would suffer more than the country at war. For most countries it would be a net win for them.

    I can't think of any realistic way to protect this asset, either.

    Maybe satellite internet (per previous Slashdot article) isn't such a bad idea?

    1. Re:More concerning by mysidia · · Score: 2

      A more concerning question is: Have they installed cable severing devices that can be remotely triggered? I suppose a remotely-triggered bomb would be easy enough, but it might be something more sophisticated,

      Well..... we should help our carriers inspect our cables, and if anyone's installed such a device, then that in itself is an act of war and must be met with sanctions against the country responsible.

      In fact.... we really should NOT tolerate foreign nations poking about with ANY craft on the ocean floors between other countries without permission from the countries adjoined by that section of ocean --- they're only allowed to transit their vessels through that space; the ocean floor itself and any cables is clearly the right of way and property of the countries that cables across that floor would intersect, And no other country has any legitimate business or right messing with, affecting that property, or "mapping out" cables in the first place...

  6. Instant Internet kill switch... by willy_me · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can bet that there will be explosives placed in various locations under the main internet communication links. Should it be required, a remote detonation signal could be sent and then say goodby to the internet. I suppose if they were going to go that far then they would also disable / destroy any satellites. Europe and the US would have almost all communications cut - good luck responding to a Russian threat in a timely manner.

    This is all theoretical but if I were Russia, I would do it. Much easier then tapping into cables and there would be no way to find said explosives.

    1. Re:Instant Internet kill switch... by willy_me · · Score: 2

      All Internet connection would not have to be severed - all it would take is the majority of underwater cables being severed at the same time. Such an event would cause sufficient gridlock to make the Internet useless. The "self healing" nature of the Internet can barely correct for accidents - let alone deliberate sabotage. That is why I described a scenario involving explosives triggered by a remote signal. Sending underwater transmissions is difficult. There are severe bandwidth limitations with huge antennas are required. But such signals will travel around the globe and it does not take much bandwidth to send an activation signal.

      It is difficult to imagine a more efficient way of disabling global Internet communications. Admittedly, satellite communication would also need to be severed in order to be effective. But this would be one important step if Russia ever performs an aggressive move in Europe. Even if the military can use their dedicated radios, it prevents the vast majority of people from communicating.

      The point would not be to kill the Internet so much as limit communications thereby blinding the enemy. It is a discussion involving tactics and theoretical scenarios. Only when it is reported that military subs are crawling the underwater cables does it become concerning. As you stated, all important information is encrypted. What other reason could Russia have for doing this?

    2. Re:Instant Internet kill switch... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 3, Funny

      How would they troll Facebook if they cut the cables?

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  7. Re:How is this news? by sound+vision · · Score: 2

    It's worth listening to if you're concerned with how Cold War II is playing out, which is among the most important geo-political developments of the 7 to 10 years. What would be ignorant is if you choose to ignore what's going on in the world.

  8. Warning came against a background of proposed cut by qaz123 · · Score: 2

    "Russia could cut off internet to nato countries british military chief warns" 2017 DEC 14
    https://www.theguardian.com/wo...
    Peach’s warning came against a background of proposed cutbacks to the UK’s armed forces, including a reduction in the number of marines from 7,000 to 6,000 and the scrapping of two amphibious landing ships as part of a Cabinet Office security review scheduled to be announced early next year.

  9. Re: Why is Russia suddenly so much cooler than us by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Golf war

    Trump is out there fighting it every day.

    --
    Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.