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Should Regulators Force Facebook To Ship a 'Start Over' Button For Users? (hunterwalk.com)
Hunter Walk: I don't really understand most of the proposals to "regulate" Facebook. There are some concrete proposals on the table regarding political ads and updating antitrust for the data age, but other punditry is largely consumer advocacy kabuki. For example, blunting the data Facebook can use to target ads or tune newsfeed hurts the user experience, and there's really no stable way to draw a line around what's appropriate versus not. These experiences are too fluid. But while I want keep the government out of the product design business, there's an alternate path which has merit: establish a baseline for the control a person has over their data on these systems. Today the platforms give their users a single choice: keep your account active or delete your account. Sure, some expose small amounts of ad targeting data and let you manipulate that, but on the whole they provide limited or no control over your ability to "start over." Want to delete all your tweets? You have to use a third party app. Want to delete all your Facebook posts? Good luck with that. Nope, once you're in the mousetrap, there's no way out except account suicide.
But is that really fair? Over multiple years, we all change. Things we said in 2011 may or may not represent us today. And these services evolve -- did we think we'd be using Facebook as a primary source of news consumption and private messaging back when you were posting baby photos? Did you think they'd also own Instagram, WhatsApp, Oculus and so on when you created accounts on those services? We're the frogs, slow boiling in the pot of water.
But is that really fair? Over multiple years, we all change. Things we said in 2011 may or may not represent us today. And these services evolve -- did we think we'd be using Facebook as a primary source of news consumption and private messaging back when you were posting baby photos? Did you think they'd also own Instagram, WhatsApp, Oculus and so on when you created accounts on those services? We're the frogs, slow boiling in the pot of water.
The EU already drew it. I must have an explicit opt in for all data collection, with a complete explanation of everything they're going to do with it. If they violate either the set of data they said they're going to collect, or do something with it they said they wouldn't, they're liable for massive fines.
Further, I should be able to see all data that they've collected on me on request.
Further, I should be able to demand they delete all data they hold on me.
That's a pretty clear line, and a pretty reasonable one.
It isn't particularly difficult to get a new email address to create a new Facebook account with and then deleting the old fb account.
Good luck convincing Trump voters they were duped by Russia. They are only just now beginning to realize they were duped by the lifelong conman and reality TV star known as Donald Trump
If you think it's that bad.
Eradicate Facebook and all its users from the planet. This solution will immediately free up tons of resources for the rest of us, and eliminate a demonstratively flawed portion of the gene pool.
We can also get rid of Twitter, Myspace, and Comcast customers.
DONT USE FACEBOOK AT ALL.
LAUNCH ALL NUKES button!
Because you know it WILL happen so the sooner the BETTER!
I find it interesting that the author didn't ask "should Facebook have a 'start over' button?"
The author seems unclear not only about what solution might work, but what problem they are trying to solve " antitrust ... ... Things we said in 2011 may or may not represent us today."
data Facebook can use to target ads
They aren't clear on what the problem is they are concerned about, they don't ask "should Facebook offer this option", indeed they don't ask "does Facebook offer a 'start over' button' (yes they do); they seem to start with the assumption that "regulators force - something" and go from there asking what it is that bureaucrats should force Facebook to do.
I'll start with a different set of questions:
Is it helpful for Facebook to offer a way to "start over", to delete all your posts and friend requests?
Does this author realize there already is that option, and many people do that, without bureaucrats being brought in to force anything?
No need for regulators. If there are features wanted/needed in the industry, then another startup can compete with FB and fill the void.
Something that has been published cannot, in all generality, be “unpublished”, be it a Facebook post, a tweet or a column in a high school newspaper. If you are high-profile enough to warrant the efforts, people will manage to dig dirt.
But the article says: “Over multiple years, we all change. Things we said in 2011 may or may not represent us today.” And another point: people make mistakes, people should not be judged on their mistakes but on how they react to them.
The public needs to understand that, more than a “right to be forgotten” or a “start over” button: people's lives and careers should not be broken because of something they said ten years ago (provided they do not still say the same today) or a message they retracted after a few minutes.
If you try to start over on Wikipedia you can get blocked for "sock-puppetry" by their abusive checkusers. I am still banned for minor vandalism over a decade ago but checkusers keep "hunting" me. Remember not to donate to Wikipedia despite their begging banners.
The issue isn't the collection of data to improve the user experience, it's the fact that they sell it to every third party under the sun and manipulate it for advertising purposes themselves. They have no viable income, it is 100% structured around thievery. Yes. All of us grow and change throughout our lives. That's called being alive. This post fundamentally misses even the smallest hint of actual understanding. Tech companies and telcos are the rail barons of the 21st century. They are not and have never been on your side or your 'friend', and neither are any other 'brands'. Grow up, kids.
Preposterous! 2005, 2006, 2007, ... 2018 is going to be the year of the Linux desktop. That's what I said and I'm sticking to it! ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
We are the dumbasses that actually put stock in ephemeral nonsense that flies from people's fleeting minds onto a timeline. Take some damn responsibility for your brain. The fact that it's out there doesn't foment an obligation to listen or believe.
What happens if you do/try that?
On the other hand, they use data not provided by the user, and they probably don't delete anything anyway (at least not the data from other sources).
Facebook has no incentive to offer any kind of "Start Over" option or button. All of that data they've collected is almost worth more than gold and they've spent a lot of money in terms of connectivity and electricity to get that data. I don't even believe that when you delete your account, all of your data is removed. Corporations lie all of the time so I don't think Facebook gets rid of your data. They just simply move it out of the public eye. I truly hope that I am proved wrong in my assertion and that facebook really does something ethical but they were awfully complicit in "electioneering."
As is that which is created from it's use including freedom of regular expression(s).
I am not a facebook expert but I hear them talking up their API all the time. Would it be possible to write an app under that structure that could accomplish this? The summary mentioned the existence of a third party app to do it with Twitter (which is obviously a completely separate system).
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Should regulators force tattoo parlors to use erasable ink? Things I expressed in 2011 may not represent me today!
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
While I detest Facebook and have never used it (and have configured my firewall to block all those 'f' tracking buttons) this makes no sense.
Facebook is just a website. If you choose to use it and it captures your data then you're stupid. But the government should stay out of the business of telling businesses how their software should work.
" For example, blunting the data Facebook can use to target ads or tune newsfeed hurts the user experience, "
The users of FB are the advertisement firms, you are the _product_ FB is selling.
Except what you're describing is often used as an evasive tool:
Trump is a pussy grabbing entitled, self-described sexual abuser.
(Point being made, start deletion in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...)
I do this a lot.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
By shutting down your account and starting a life.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
There have been "Timeline cleaners" available for some time, to bad facebook changes their data structure so often that they stop working after days to weeks.
My preference would be a balance of their corporate interest to sell me stuff (or my data to others) and my ability to control what is out there.
Specifically, have an automatic age out at some user configurable threshold, as in delete anything over 1 year or whatever time table.
(That would be actually delete it, not this "delete means you can no longer access it, but it still probably exists) nonsense).
My motto is: Do not publish anything unless you gain something from it. Be boring about what you publish. Do not let anybody see your underwear.
facebook has become a necessary evil for many, heck even /. has a facebook section. I have an account to maintain contact with the family, I touch once a week or so.
facebook doesn't delete accounts, didn't, doesn't matter; once bitten. Figuring I had more control with an active account I deleted 2 years worth of history.
Now I get two pages of ads then met with a to continue further you need to make more friends, two pages is fine with me. I'll not be forced to "find friends".
Except Trump has exhibited this playboy behavior for decades, going back to the 1970s. People who are 70 years old don't change their tune if it has been ingrained for this long and allowed to get away with it.
Except what you're describing is often used as an evasive tool:
Trump is a pussy grabbing entitled, self-described sexual abuser.
(Point being made, start deletion in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...)
I do this a lot.
The Trump thing is not really relevant to the topic save that comparatively we knew a lot about Clinton, included decades of efforts to attack her. We knew and still know relatively little about Trump, not even how much his tax bill will make him. Basically if you know 20% about person A and 80% about person B, then you have to multiply all the bad stuff about person A by 4 to even have a rough guess about the person.
As far as the Facebook reset, sure, why not? No such a reset wouldn't stop someone determined to find the information, but given a couple years the average person would have more difficulty. Basically the difference is it is fair game to look at politicians in more detail. When a politician hides information you should assume the worst. If there is one thing I'd wish for the new year it is for people to automatically distrust when someone says the words, "Believe me."
Plain and simple.
For the younger crowd - no part of life features a 'start over' button. It's just as well you learn to cope with that fact and make conscious choices that extend beyond the moment, instead. You WILL have to face this reality sooner or later whether you like it or not. Might as well get it over with.
Welcome to the internet - there is no undo button
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So...the only saving grace, as it always was, is to not be worse than the next person you're being compared against. An issue might be that now, those doing the choosing for who gets the job, the loan, whatever, now have a lot more to choose from and it'll be harder to stand above the crowd than before. But when things get tough...you know the rest. Welcome to reality, it sucks - but the only permanent way out sucks worse.
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
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So you've posted a bunch of bigoted, racist crap on Fb that you thought only other shitheel racists would see, and now you've been exposed to the entire world for what you really are? Suck it, loser. You don't get to erase all of that and start over. You made your own cradle of filth, now wallow in it.
This 'Start Over' button this person speaks of is a trap. It would only really benefit platforms like Facebook. Why? Because the 'old' data the user wants to delete permanently just dilutes the entire database Facebook would have of that person; deleting the old data would actually improve the quality of the data for Facebook. I'm with other commentors: All data collection should be 'opt in', and it should be ILLEGAL to collect data on people otherwise.
Also, this: PEOPLE DO NOT WANT 'TARGETED' ADS, EVER! Even if most people aren't very verbal about it, people HATE ads and would prefer to never see them.
The model needs to change where YOU own YOUR data and information. So, when YOUR information is sold to advertisers, YOU get (at least) a piece of the profits from the online advertising. Sure, it might be pennies or fractions of pennies, but considering how much and often a person's data is bought and sold, it'd add up.
Or just a script, the easiest would probably be imacros. All its doing is just deleting posts. Theres a great API for developers on FB but you need some legit credentials for it lol
[($)]
But the article says: “Over multiple years, we all change. Things we said in 2011 may or may not represent us today.” And another point: people make mistakes, people should not be judged on their mistakes but on how they react to them.
Speaker for the Dead.
As you say, maybe we just just accept nobody is perfect. Everyone evolves over the year to become something different, you will constantly disagree with your younger self.
ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
Should have thought of that before you voluntarily gave all your personal information to a random company to do with as they please.
They will give you a 'start over' button if it advantages their shareholders. Pray they don't alter the terms further.
+1 anyone can already delete their account and create a new one
There is no legal right to reuse the same pseudonym (aka username) on any website, and you can always append the current year to it if you are prone to delete and recreate anyway
Thanks, no mod points but no sure why this is -1? I deleted myself from Facebook years ago and LinkedIn recently when Microsoft bought them. Just align your opinions and ethics with your purchases and non-purchases, simple.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
The first sentence of this is a goof ... they can't understand proposals to regulate a content provider and what they do with information that is implied to be non-public but they are all for regulating whose traffic ISPs can regulate/shape on the networks that they own and operate ..... this is silliness.
NO
The fuckwits posted what they posted, the evidence of their stupidity should remain recorded as a warning to other fucking idiots.
We need a way to identify fucking idiots early, so we can try to stop their idiocy from multiplying.
Otherwise we end up with more Trumps....
I don't give a dang. In march it will be the three-year anniversary since I deleted my account from Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. So I'm pretty happy and still connected in other ways.
FB would agree right away provided they can influence the regulatory language the right way. Then they'll keep the data but 'anonomized' with and undo feature for law enforcement/anti-terrorism/protecting the children. And here is the neat part, that info will become even more valuable so FB will be able to sell it to political opposition research firms (or reputation protection firms that are certainly not a disguised front for FB will sell 'protection'). This sounds like a gold mine that only gets bigger if you make all the little fish wipe the embarrassing info.
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You say:
> But while I want keep the government out of the product design business,...
But this is exactly what governments are for: to protect us from each other. To say what we can and can't do to each other. Governments tell you how fast you can drive a car down my road, they say which drugs other people can and cannot sell to me, they regulate 1000 things designed to keep people happy with each other – so why on earth should a government not say what data you can keep on other people, and whether those people can destroy it?
I am really really interested to find out where your sentence comes from, in your brain. You view it as "product design", and while I don't want governments designing user interfaces, I very very much want them to say stuff like this.
If a government is serving the people, it will pass laws like this, and if it is serving their rich paymasters, it will do the opposite – cancel net neutrality, allow the rich corporations to do whatever they want to do to exploit the ordinary people.