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How Hotmail Changed Microsoft (and Email) Forever (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Twenty years ago this week, on December 29, 1997, Bill Gates bought Microsoft a $450 million late Christmas present: a Sunnyvale-based outfit called Hotmail. With the buy -- the largest all-cash Internet startup purchase of its day -- Microsoft plunged into the nascent world of Web-based email. Originally launched in 1996 by Jack Smith and Sabeer Bhatia as "HoTMaiL" (referencing HTML, the language of the World Wide Web), Hotmail was initially folded into Microsoft's MSN online service. Mistakes were made. Many dollars were spent. Branding was changed. Spam became legion. Many, many horrendous email signatures were spawned. But over the years that followed, Hotmail would set the course for all the Web-based email offerings that followed, launching the era of mass-consumer free email services. Along the way, Hotmail drove changes in Windows itself (particularly in what would become Windows Server) that would lay the groundwork for the operating system to make its push into the data center. And the email service would be Microsoft's first step toward what is now the Azure cloud.

Former Microsoft executive Marco DeMello, now CEO of mobile security firm PSafe Technology, was handed the job of managing the integration of Hotmail as the lead program manager for MSN -- Microsoft's own answer to America Online. In an interview with Ars, DeMello -- who would go on to be director of Windows security and product manager for Exchange before leaving Microsoft in 2006 -- recounted how, right after he was hired in October of 1996 to manage MSN, he was summoned to Redmond for a meeting with Bill Gates. "He gave me and my team the mission of basically finding or creating a system for free Web-based email for the whole world that Microsoft would offer," DeMello said.

84 comments

  1. is the worst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's face it, hotmail is the worst freemail provider nowadays, with extremely unreliable deliveries and blatant non respect of RFCs.

    1. Re:is the worst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the contrary! Hotmail is one of the very few, if not the only, to provide a whitelist for your inbox. Spam is totally not an issue. If only Google would offer the same... *sigh*

  2. Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft actually has a case study up describing their Hotmail migration from FreeBSD to Windows 2000. It's of course old and outdated, but may be an interesting read anyway. It made news back when Netcraft confirmed Windows 2000 servers running IIS were killing FreeBSD at Hotmail.

    1. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that migration to windows servers was plagued with so many problems, it's what gave hotmail its (well deserved at the time) shitty reputation.

    2. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      Microsoft actually has a case study up describing their Hotmail migration from FreeBSD to Windows 2000

      Your link is a somewhat sanitized version of what happened, and ignores the first three years of fiascos.

      Prior to the acquisition, Hotmail worked closely with the FreeBSD devs to optimize their servers. This led to things like the "sendfile" system call, where a program could pass a filename and an open socket to the kernel, and the kernel would write the file to the socket with none of the bytes touching userspace. So when Microsoft took over, they got a lean, optimized, and efficient system, and tried to replace it with one of the worst server operating systems ever. Each FreeBSD system (a $200 motherboard sitting on a piece of cardboard), needed 20 Win-NT servers to replace it, each costing ten times as much as the FreeBSD boards. Since this was clearly unworkable, they waited another 3 years to do the transition, while both hardware and software improved. All of this was further complicated by many of the original Hotmail people quitting to go elsewhere (this was the height of the boom), leaving the remaining employees just treading water with little time to work on the transition.

    3. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Kevin+Oldman · · Score: 1

      I vaguely recall this. I still use my original hotmail address, had it since I was about 16 I think? I just turned 37.

    4. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the Christmas Hotmail went down because Microsoft forgot to renew the domain registration. They were lucky a Linux Hacker did if for them and got their service back up and didn't hold the domain for ransom.

    5. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      That was and is bullshit. It only talks bout the migration of the Internet-facing machines.

      The back end servers remained running *BSD for a long time afterwards. When they did eventually transition, it required compiled binaries (instead of php or perl or whatever was used in the original iteration of Hotmail) and much newer, more powerful servers to achieve the same performance.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    6. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      Wasn't that the guy who did hold them up for ransom... to the tune of $10 or so (the renewal fee), and with the condition that Gates himself signed the check?

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    7. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      Gates should have flown to England (iirc) and hand-delivered the ten dollar check personally - the dude saved Microsoft a fair bit of user embarrassment.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    8. Re: Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still have mine. Started at 12, am now 35. If I want to be depressed I can just go re read and remember all my teen and early 20â(TM)s emails to my girlfriends :). Itâ(TM)s like a little time capsule of shame.

    9. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to recall reading on a newsgroup post during the early days of hotmail that somebody had registered the email address theyusefreebsd@hotmail.com. As a former FreeBSD user this always made me smile.

    10. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by I'm+just+joshin · · Score: 5, Informative

      I was the first SysAdmin for Hotmail. Everything you said is wrong.

      The backend servers and mail servers were Solaris. The front end servers were FreeBSD.

      The original code was Perl. This was before FreeBSD was rolled out. By the time FreeBSD was introduced, pretty much everything was coded in C.

      The Windows migration was my last straw. They didn't perform worse on the front end, but the management was miserable and MSFT's Windows team were completely unsupportive until there was a massive flame going from my team up.

    11. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by I'm+just+joshin · · Score: 1

      No. Microsoft neglecting the product to try and make $ off the user base is what killed Hotmail's reputation. And caused many of us to leave.

    12. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by I'm+just+joshin · · Score: 2

      Bah. I had root@rocketmail.com and sysadmin@rocketmail.com.

      We were a Solaris site from the start. Then a FreeBSD/Solaris site. And right after I left Hotmail was a Windows / Solaris site. A few years later, the last of the Solaris backend servers were retired.

    13. Re: Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Itâ(TM)s been awhile. That was Christmas 1999, I paid it for them. You can search google to read more, including the original threads.

    14. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by I'm+just+joshin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hey Bill,

      That's not true. When the first real attempts to use Windows machines as Hotmail front end boxes was attempted, the Windows servers were within 10% for raw performance. However, managing them was a clusterfuck of the first order. We were ahead of our time with code distribution, being able to take bad servers out of production, get new ones provisioned and the like.

      We'd have needed 20x more sys admins, not 20x more servers.

      The Windows team was not responsive to this problem until my team and I lobbed a nuke to Gates about how a conversion wasn't going to happen until the Windows team got their shit in order.

    15. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      When the first real attempts to use Windows machines as Hotmail front end boxes was attempted ...

      The first "real" attempt? Why the weasel word? What you mean is the first successful attempt after three years of abject failure.

      the Windows servers were within 10% for raw performance.

      That is not my recollection at all. I have some "before and after" photos of the Hotmail's Sunnyvale datacenter. I will try to find them and post a link.

    16. Re: Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by HatofPig · · Score: 2
      --
      Silicon & Charybdis McLuhan Kildall Papert Kay
    17. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by zoid.com · · Score: 1

      Microsoft actually has a case study up describing their Hotmail migration from FreeBSD to Windows 2000

      Your link is a somewhat sanitized version of what happened, and ignores the first three years of fiascos.

      Prior to the acquisition, Hotmail worked closely with the FreeBSD devs to optimize their servers. This led to things like the "sendfile" system call, where a program could pass a filename and an open socket to the kernel, and the kernel would write the file to the socket with none of the bytes touching userspace. So when Microsoft took over, they got a lean, optimized, and efficient system, and tried to replace it with one of the worst server operating systems ever. Each FreeBSD system (a $200 motherboard sitting on a piece of cardboard), needed 20 Win-NT servers to replace it, each costing ten times as much as the FreeBSD boards. Since this was clearly unworkable, they waited another 3 years to do the transition, while both hardware and software improved. All of this was further complicated by many of the original Hotmail people quitting to go elsewhere (this was the height of the boom), leaving the remaining employees just treading water with little time to work on the transition.

      Microsoft actually has a case study up describing their Hotmail migration from FreeBSD to Windows 2000

      Your link is a somewhat sanitized version of what happened, and ignores the first three years of fiascos.

      Prior to the acquisition, Hotmail worked closely with the FreeBSD devs to optimize their servers. This led to things like the "sendfile" system call, where a program could pass a filename and an open socket to the kernel, and the kernel would write the file to the socket with none of the bytes touching userspace. So when Microsoft took over, they got a lean, optimized, and efficient system, and tried to replace it with one of the worst server operating systems ever. Each FreeBSD system (a $200 motherboard sitting on a piece of cardboard), needed 20 Win-NT servers to replace it, each costing ten times as much as the FreeBSD boards. Since this was clearly unworkable, they waited another 3 years to do the transition, while both hardware and software improved. All of this was further complicated by many of the original Hotmail people quitting to go elsewhere (this was the height of the boom), leaving the remaining employees just treading water with little time to work on the transition.

      Thanks for posting this. It seems that Slashdot forgot their own news history yet again.

    18. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The nerve of those guys to try to make money. I never do that.

    19. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      had it since I was about 16 I think? I just turned 37.

      User name checks out.

      Oops - gotta go. I can hear my mom calling from upstairs.

    20. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Locutus · · Score: 1

      and the many stories of how they tried to run it on Windows and it failed and eventually they went back to *nix/BSD and put a Windows based load balancer on the front end so that sites like Netcraft would list it as running on Windows.

      Hotmail was possibly the one product Microsoft purchased which was originally a *nix product and were able to still provide service once it was ported to their Windows OS. The purchase of Danger comes to mind. Half a billion dollars or so and they tried to make it run on Windows on the handset and then tried to remake the service running on Windows and then just closed it down. But this wasn't the first time they took a successful product running on a competitors OS and shut it down at a massive loss. Dimension X and Coopers&Peters were a couple which pretty much got the lights turned off shortly after the ink dried. Gotta protect the Windows market.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    21. Re: Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Serious question: Did Hotmail have a plan to make money? Did they have a paid plan? I don't remember as I was a child before Microsoft bought them.

      Or was the plan to build a massive user base and sell to the highest bidder?

    22. Re: Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by plopez · · Score: 1

      +1

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    23. Re: Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      Thank you, but it gets better. The people I sold it to sent it back to me after taking pictures with it, so I still have the check. In 2006 or so I got a form letter from Microsoft that says "Hey, we were looking through our books and we wrote you a $500 check that never got cashed. We'll send you another one if you want." So, I still have the check, but I also got the $500. Plus, Bill Gates knows my name and probably still hates me, which is kind of cool.

    24. Re: Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by I'm+just+joshin · · Score: 1

      We were profitable from the opt-in subscriptions "web courier" and ads we had. Not very profitable, but still better than pretty much the rest of the industry at the time.

    25. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by I'm+just+joshin · · Score: 1

      Biil, don't be a douche throwing out a hostile term like "weasel word".to try and hide that you don't know what you're talking about.

      For the record, I'm including when we looked at Windows NT in the 1997 time frame (pre-acquisition, but when some early conversations were happening) to see if it was feasible. It very much wasn't..But then, neither was Linux. Or a foolish attempt by a greybeard brought in late who wanted to port everything to Java. We tried lots of things to keep afloat and get off the bleeding edge.

      As to the Sunnyvale data center, we had no such thing. We were colo'd at Best Internet (who had chicken wire and plywood separating their customers), and then we moved to Exodus's Wyatt and then Lawson facilities.

      But you go find your pretty little pictures. I'll tell the real story of what happened.

      Like when Exodus's PR folk did a photo shoot to show off our new cluster layout. Unfortunately, they used high intensity flashes, which EMP'd some of our gear.

    26. Re:Originally ran on Apache/FreeBSD by ArtFart · · Score: 1

      This would be congruent with my recollections. During that time I worked for a Seattle-area reseller and we delivered dozens of Sun boxes to Microsoft. One day I was installing a few and ended up giving an ad hoc X-Windows tutorial to a roomful of people. They had no idea Unix had any sort of graphics capability.

  3. No wonder Sun went under by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article:


    That responsibility would include the somewhat delicate task of incorporating software running on Unix—a mix of FreeBSD Web servers on the front end and Sun Solaris on SPARC on the back-end—into a Windows-only environment and migrating the service to Windows servers.

    ...

    At a time when Sun CEO Scott McNealy regularly made Microsoft's server operating system the butt of jokes, this was likely salt in the wounds of Microsoft executives.

    Instead of bashing MS - constantly poking them in the eye and forcing them to take the enterprise seriously, if Scott McNealy had focussed on making the Solaris/SPARC stack even more competitive and further enhancing the vendor lock-in Sun had, today's enterprise duopoly might have been Solaris and Linux instead of Linux and Windows.

    Don't bash your customers.

    1. Re:No wonder Sun went under by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice rant, creimer, but where’s the Amazon affiliate link to a book about Solaris or the downfall of Sun?

    2. Re:No wonder Sun went under by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Hotmail was a relatively small Sun customer. Remember that this was at the start of the .com boom, when all of the cool Internet startups were running Sun kit. They needed to bash Microsoft, because they were terrified that their customers would replace UNIX servers with NT servers on their corporate networks. To some degree, it even worked, given the number of companies that decided to migrate their servers to Linux/*BSD instead of Windows NT.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  4. Top company in industry buys hypergrowth startup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to fill a gap in its product line, and also to land young talent with a more up-to-date perspective on how things are done.

    Never has happened before or since.

  5. Beware of the Passive Voice by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mistakes were made. Many dollars were spent.

    The most powerful weapon in the hands of the spinmeister is the passive voice. You can make reasonable sounding statements, keep who did the mistakes and who spent the dollars out of focus, lull the listener into some kind of mental lethargy, ... and then bham! Whack them before they know what hit them.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Beware of the Passive Voice by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      The most powerful weapon in the hands of the spinmeister is the passive voice.

      This is one reason for the dominance of English in many fields. It provides so many opportunities for nuance, ambiguity, and evasion.

    2. Re:Beware of the Passive Voice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you thinking of some major language that doesn't get used (passive!) because it lacks passive voice?

    3. Re:Beware of the Passive Voice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many languages have a passive voice. (??!!)

      English is dominant simply because native English speaking countries have dominated the globe the past 100 years.

  6. I've had hotmail that long... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But only use it for a junk address.

  7. spam by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    "How about spam, eggs, long signatures and spam? That don't have much spam init."

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:spam by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      From what I saw it was spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, and spam.

      I signed up shortly after it started. I told no one my Hotmail address and never used the account, even to send an email. I checked it a few months later and the inbox was FULL of spam (hundreds). Haven't been back there since.

    2. Re:spam by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I may be misremembering how advanced cyber-security was at the time. But how quickly would a brute-force SMTP attack be shut down back then? Would it be? Just sending to every combination of letters and numbers before the @ sign would be very quick when their servers were still fast and not overloaded.

  8. hotmail serves a vital purpose by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    When ordering online requires an email address that the vendor can then spam the dickens out of, having some dummy hotmail spam collectors can be very useful.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:hotmail serves a vital purpose by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just get your own domain and create throwaway addresses that you rotate on a regular basis. As a bonus, you don't have to change your actual email address if you switch providers or if your online email service provider goes under. Been doing that since '97.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:hotmail serves a vital purpose by jittles · · Score: 1

      When ordering online requires an email address that the vendor can then spam the dickens out of, having some dummy hotmail spam collectors can be very useful.

      I always preferred Rocketmail, but they were bought out by Yahoo and the service sucked afterward. Though I still use a hotmail address for all the sites I don't really care about.

    3. Re: hotmail serves a vital purpose by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Bingo. Works like a charm for me too. Add to that a custom Haraka server with a black/white list and no more spam problem.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    4. Re:hotmail serves a vital purpose by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Same here, but it's also worth remembering Schneier's advice: if you sign up to netflix as netflix@example.com, there's a good chance that he can guess what email address you use for amazon! It's also good security if you use different email addresses for each service, because if one of them has poor security then whoever compromises them will try your username and password on a all of their services, and now they have two things that hopefully won't match.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  9. just leaving microsoft then 1997 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yes, in 1992-1993, the microsoft online services (MOS) group got started. and many of my colleagues headed there. i headed inwards and upwards, and finally outwards.. email at Hotmail was crazy, and NN 4.05 was cool along with Netscape Communicator... at msft only a few of us web developers were html 3.2 4.0 javascript compliant and most of the vps' were idiots telling us to us to eat our own dogfood, eg. Internet Exploder 3.0, 4.0, 4.01, etc.. well, long story short, the great ones like a few of us exited and watched ballmer like hotmail take 10 years to go away... did hotmail change the face of email? yes. did ballmer change the face of msft oh yes, and for the worse.. glad we are back on track. many of my msft friends who stayed on were underwater with options, until lately, too little too late... glad we can finally agree, 2000 to 2010 msft would like to forget... forever... happy new year... and gmail is good. yahoo is bad. brave is better than chrome, and firefox is better than edge. nn 4.05 nn communicator were the best in there time. pegasus was cool. eudora was cool too.. look at linux family tree in comparison... love that 3 way generations spawn of amazing universal collaboration.... -- happy new year... may your 1's and 0's be forever fuzzy...

    1. Re: just leaving microsoft then 1997 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who are you? What did hotmail change? Nobody cares about you or your Microsoft experience, and you cannot even write coherently.

    2. Re: just leaving microsoft then 1997 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I care.

    3. Re: just leaving microsoft then 1997 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linus writes just about the same style too. Interestingly enough. Xenix had email though not like Hotmail.

    4. Re: just leaving microsoft then 1997 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linus at least is using obscene words to colour things up.

      Yes, I do realize that there are people that would think it wasn't Microsoft that gave them Internet because they saw it firsts through a monstrosity called Internet Explorer.

  10. Hotmail by nonicknameavailable · · Score: 1

    I left hotmail after Microsoft bought it

    --
    Mendacem Memorem Esse Oportet
    1. Re:Hotmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wow. We’ve got quite the badass here folks.

    2. Re:Hotmail by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      I keep using it just so Microsoft has to renew the domain name and keep it working. I never use the "outlook" or whatever equivalent.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:Hotmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. We've got a lousy troll here folks

    4. Re:Hotmail by nonicknameavailable · · Score: 1

      I'm still using my netscape.net address from the 90s

      --
      Mendacem Memorem Esse Oportet
    5. Re:Hotmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. Weâ(TM)ve got quite the dumbass here folks.

  11. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hotmail is horrible, and Microsoft server in data centre is horrible. The only reason it floats is probably some form of enterprise kickback technology.

    1. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hotmail is horrible, and Microsoft server in data centre is horrible.

      ... and so is your English...

    2. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hotmail is not awesome - but it's just good enough to keep me using it as my primary e-mail.

      I've had my account since the early days. Way back then it was great to have an e-mail address which stuck with you when you changed ISPs or changed jobs. These days there's a lot of competition but all my friends know my Hotmail address so unless MS really screw up I'll keep on using it.

      Microsoft Server in the data centre is horrible, but it's got nothing on Microsoft licensing. I'm in the process of moving our infrastructure away from MS wherever possible just to avoid the dreadful morass of Server and CAL licensing. So far as I can tell, their explanations of licensing appear designed to confuse so that Microsoft can 'audit' at some point in the future and demand that we pay some punitive license settlement.

      Just my current bugbear,

      Keith.

  12. Hotmail isn't email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    As long as Hotmail silently drops incoming, accepted mails without generating a bounce (blatantly ignoring SMTP RFC) it has absolutely nothing to do with email and should never be called that, the correct description is 'broken POS'. SMTP server admins should collectively blacklist them and move on into a better future.

    1. Re:Hotmail isn't email by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Generating a bounce is just a way to allow spammers to know if they've found a valid address. I would agree that blocking IPs after X invalid email addresses across X minutes would be smarter - but it doesn't do much against a botnet either.

    2. Re:Hotmail isn't email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing worse than hotmail is google's gmail. Google's fake IMAP compatibility drives me crazy!

    3. Re: Hotmail isn't email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Generating a bounce is just a way to allow spammers to know if they've found a valid address.'

      The RFC gives them the three options: to either do their SPAM filtering in the receive phase and error out directly against the delivering server or to put stuff they find questionable into a junk folder in the receiving account or to generate a bounce should they decide to not deliver after initially accepting the message.

      They decide to not play by these commonly agreed upon rules, thus they're not supplying email.

      It's long overdue that the rules decide to no longer play with them.

    4. Re: Hotmail isn't email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite a few providers disregard those rules too, including AOL, iCloud, and Yahoo. Only one that accepts basically everything is Gmail, which relies on filtering instead.

    5. Re:Hotmail isn't email by Myrddin+Wyllt · · Score: 1

      Our emails at least get a bounce message from Microsoft addresses, which I suppose is something :-)

      Earlier in the year, following WannaCry, we were getting a lot of bounces from UK government addresses as they tightened their filters. At the time, we were using the service providers webmail (1&1 as it happens), so everything went through their pool of SMTP servers. Not surprisingly, there are a lot of unsavory characters using these same servers, so blacklisting them wasn't unreasonable. The solution we adopted was to move mail onto our VPS and run our own Postfix server, which so far has worked perfectly for the entire planet EXCEPT MICROSOFT.

      Hotmail (and outlook.com etc) routinely bounce our emails because the IP address of our VPS is in the *same block* as a blacklisted server. Numerous emails to Microsoft and 1&1 have failed to resolve this, and frankly I now just tell people not to expect mail to these addresses to get through. If there was a concerted effort by SMTP admins to blacklist MS addresses until they honour the RFCs I would sign up in a flash - they just think they are too big to have to play by the rules.

      --
      [ ]Half Empty [ ]Half Full [x]Twice as big as it needs to be
    6. Re: Hotmail isn't email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then maybe I don't want email, but whatever it is that Microsoft offers.

    7. Re: Hotmail isn't email by omnichad · · Score: 1

      receive phase and error out directly against the delivering server

      Which means "respond to a spammer and say whether or not they've reached a valid address." Sorry, RFCs are a religion, not a law.

  13. I didn't notice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When hotmail got taken over I switched to another provider with web and pop3 support, yifan.net I believe

  14. juno by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    was hotmail in that period tween BBS and webmail was a thing, successfully transitioned beyond that, lasted longer than hotmail in the picture of history, but yea hotmail, where every spammer I ever ran across got sent to a "eatmyass@hotmail, suckadick@hotmail, gofuckyourself@hotmail, fuckyourmamma@hotmail" response

    hotmail was nothing special, in the sense that @aol.com was nothing special, unless you were 8 and completely clueless dumb fucks at the time

    1. Re: juno by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still use my @aol.com (though itâ(TM)s origibally a @netscape.net account) and stuck with it because it offered IMAP way before Hotmail (2013) and avoided the crappy IMAP implementation that Gmail uses.

    2. Re: juno by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get three domains to your username on AOL (only for old accounts)

      @netscape.net
      @aim.com
      @aol.com

  15. Was a hotmail user until they became retarded by alantus · · Score: 1

    I was a hotmail user long before Microsoft bought it, gmail didn't exist back then.
    I kept using hotmail even after MS bought it, I really didn't give it much tought.

    Suddenly hotmail asked me to enter my cellphone number that they would verify with a message, and I could not log in without this verification.

    That's how I lost years worth of emails and why I will never use Microsoft services again.

    1. Re:Was a hotmail user until they became retarded by Myrddin+Wyllt · · Score: 1

      Yeah, had a very similar experience - set up my hotmail pre-Microsoft, and used it as a principal destination address for about ten years (my work and ISP based addresses changed quite often back then, so it was good to have a stable point of contact). Nowadays I use gmail for the same purpose, but I was still getting the odd email sent to the hotmail address, usually from old work colleagues or mates wanting to get back in touch - all autoforwarded to gmail.
      Then earlier this year Microsoft decided that I needed to verify my account to carry on using it - never got as far as cellphone verification as I couldn't remember what fictional date of birth I'd entered 20-odd years ago to set up an account in the name of a mythical wizard. That was it - locked out of 20 years of email history.

      --
      [ ]Half Empty [ ]Half Full [x]Twice as big as it needs to be
    2. Re:Was a hotmail user until they became retarded by AbrasiveCat · · Score: 1

      I was a hotmail user long before Microsoft bought it, gmail didn't exist back then. I kept using hotmail even after MS bought it, I really didn't give it much tought. Suddenly hotmail asked me to enter my cellphone number that they would verify with a message, and I could not log in without this verification. That's how I lost years worth of emails and why I will never use Microsoft services again.

      They are going to ask me for what! Well I hope not, I may have to give up one of my burner accounts!

  16. 2GB limit changed everything IMO by D,Petkow · · Score: 1

    In the early years i was online (1996 - 2000 ) most web based email providers offered 25 MB of storage. Then google came and offered 2 GB with Gmail, which for me was the biggest leap i had seen. I mean companies used to charge for a 100MB plan. This has come at a privacy cost/penalty, though.

  17. and the typos began by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many a time was hotmail typoed to hotmale leading to a very different website to what was expected.

  18. Oh wow! by jon3k · · Score: 1

    "He gave me and my team the mission of basically finding or creating a system for free Web-based email for the whole world that Microsoft would offer," DeMello said.

    Which sounds really impressive except 1) he got the idea from hotmail and other free services that already existed, this was obviously another "embrace, extend and extinguish" attempt and 2) the "whole world" meant people connected to the internet in 1996, not the billions we have today. The smartphone revolution wasn't even a fantasy in 1996 and even billy gates's wildest dream was only that we'd get as far as "a computer in every home" not one in every pocket.

  19. I still use it by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    I've had a hotmail account, since 1997. I use it for "junk mail". Anytime I have to log into any site with an email address...they get my hotmail address. Keeps the spam/junk out of my real email account.

  20. Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

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