Slashdot Mirror
iMac Pro Teardown Highlights Modular RAM, CPU and SSD Along With Redesigned Internals (macrumors.com)
Popular repair site iFixit has acquired an iMac Pro and opened it up to see what's inside. They tore down the base iMac Pro with an 8-core processor, 32GB of RAM, and a 1TB SSD. Mac Rumors reports the findings: iFixit found that the RAM, CPU, and SSDs in the iMac Pro are modular and can potentially be replaced following purchase, but most of the key components "require a full disassembly to replace." Standard 27-inch iMacs have a small hatch in the back that allows easy access to the RAM for post-purchase upgrades, but that's missing in the iMac Pro. Apple has said that iMac Pro owners will need to get RAM replaced at an Apple Store or Apple Authorized Service Provider. iFixit says that compared to the 5K 27-inch iMac, replacing the RAM in the iMac Pro is indeed "a major undertaking."
Apple is using standard 288-pin DDR4 ECC RAM sticks with standard chips, which iFixit was able to upgrade using its own $2,000 RAM upgrade kit. A CPU upgrade is "theoretically possible," but because Apple uses a custom-made Intel chip, it's not clear if an upgrade is actually feasible. The same goes for the SSDs -- they're modular and removable, but custom made by Apple. Unlike the CPU, the GPU is BGA-soldered into place and cannot be removed. The internals of the iMac Pro are "totally different" from other iMacs, which is unsurprising as Apple said it introduced a new thermal design to accommodate the Xeon-W processors and Radeon Pro Vega GPUs built into the machines. The new thermal design includes an "enormous" dual-fan cooler, what iFixit says is a "ginormous heat sink," and a "big rear vent." Overall, iFixit gave the iMac Pro a repairability score of 3/10 since it's difficult to open and tough to get to internal components that might need to be repaired or replaced.
Apple is using standard 288-pin DDR4 ECC RAM sticks with standard chips, which iFixit was able to upgrade using its own $2,000 RAM upgrade kit. A CPU upgrade is "theoretically possible," but because Apple uses a custom-made Intel chip, it's not clear if an upgrade is actually feasible. The same goes for the SSDs -- they're modular and removable, but custom made by Apple. Unlike the CPU, the GPU is BGA-soldered into place and cannot be removed. The internals of the iMac Pro are "totally different" from other iMacs, which is unsurprising as Apple said it introduced a new thermal design to accommodate the Xeon-W processors and Radeon Pro Vega GPUs built into the machines. The new thermal design includes an "enormous" dual-fan cooler, what iFixit says is a "ginormous heat sink," and a "big rear vent." Overall, iFixit gave the iMac Pro a repairability score of 3/10 since it's difficult to open and tough to get to internal components that might need to be repaired or replaced.
Yesterday's hardware at tomorrow's prices, just so you can claim you like the kindergarten-level operating system with all the useful internals obscured. And then, it's a walled garden, and you have few hardware options. Just lubricate your anus before you walk into the Apple store, because you will be sodomized financially and spiritually by this runaway virus of a company.
Alternative Right.
Other than probably costing 50 cents per iMac more, what was wrong with the pre-2013 iMacs, where the screen glass was held on with small magnets and the actually LCD was bolted below it?
Other the mean-spirited customer-hostile design, why glue the LCD on to the case, requiring removal with a pizza roller or knife to fix anything on your own?
If Apple had spent a tiny bit more per machine, repairability would probably be more like 7 or 8 out of 10.
The CPU may be a bit custom, but I believe the socket is standard.
The SSD storage chips are defiantly custom, but third parties have produced storage upgrades in the past, and they probably will for the Mac Pro as well.
Although it doesn't look as easy as opening a door, it didn't seem like opening the iMac itself to switch out RAM looked too difficult - but for now a bunch of RAM is still pretty expensive for the system, no matter how you slice it.
The fan upgrade is really nice, since the current iMacs will spin up the fans quite a bit on load, where from multiple reviews it sounds like the iMac Pro fans almost never go to full (unless CPU and GPU are both maxed at once for a while).
It would be nice to know more about how the GPU fares in comparison to other recent GPU's... A big aspect of the GPU upgrade scene that everyone seems to be overlooking though is that it doesn't matter much if the internal GPU is fixed, because apple is now making an eGPU box for attaching other GPU's to a system externally. That will be really great for those wanting to do any kind of deep learning research.
In general the expandability through Thunderbolt 3 should be really good.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
down clocked cpu is the custom part full cpus may just overload the cooling.
I want Threadripper boards with IPMI and ryzen pro boards IPMI.
ryzen pro more or less is exon-e3 class. Just need some good workstation / server non gamer boards
why lock raid 0 storage to the MB? and only on a pci-e X4 bus for 2 pci-e cards that also has web-cam and co-cpu on that same bus as well? it's not like they are lacking pci-e lanes. Each storage should have it's own cpu X4 link.
There is one reason why I'd buy a Mac: I like macOS. It has a nice interface. Wouldn't you pay a reasonable premium to avoid the bug-ridden, badly-designed clusterfuck of Windows 10? Too bad Apple has gone very unreasonable with high prices, poor specs, and everything bolted down.
Oh yes Apple learned. Selling 20% quality-up 80% more worked well, so far.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
I wouldn't buy one of these, but if you look at these pictures and are not impressed with the engineering that went in to getting the performance that thing puts out into that package then you're not much of a geek in my estimation. It's like a swiss watch in there. Now a Casio tells time just as well as a precision engineered swiss mechanical for a fraction of the price and yet people still buy them at ridiculous prices because they like a nicely made thing, or they like the style, or they don't want to wear a fugly G-shock with their suit, or they just have money to burn. Whatever.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
Aren't all iDevices Perfect At Assembly? Upgrading an iMac Pro is like adding more brushstrokes to the Mona Lisa...
/sarc
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
ipmi slots used to be found on some server boards so they where able to sell it as an add on.
I have a couple of older Macs at home - a MacBook Pro and an iMac. Both of which I was able to upgrade to some degree. But the newer ones seem to have taken vendor lockdown to the extreme. I guess I just like to tinker - be it computers or cars - and buying a locked down machine does not appeal to me.
Proprietary SSD's? Really?
1. No headphone jack. Will stick with the 5s until it dies.
2. No DVD writer. Will stick with my ancient MacBook Pro until it dies. Already updated to 16gb and SSD, so there.
The iMac Pro is only worth its price to those who can expense it. I can't.
You can actually *change* the CPU and the memory, **after** you buy the machine. Take that PC losers.
I am absolutely not impressed with the precision. Their laptops are just as precise. Lately, Apple seem to value thinness above all else (even performance).
The processors are basically B-spec versions (i.e. clocked down, probably undervolted) of the Xeon W series they are practically clones of and the Vega GPUs are clocked down versions of their desktop counterparts too.
Most pros I know have performance near the top of their priority list, not thinness. I'd like to run my software as fast as possible, not sit there masturbating to how sexy and thin Apple's machine is.
Maybe the next Mac Pro will give more room to allow less garbage thermals but given Apple's obsession with thinness right now I'm not holding my breath.
It shouldnâ(TM)t be a surprise that Apple hasnâ(TM)t done it; that really goes against their design language. You also canâ(TM)t really guarantee good air movement in a room, but I think thatâ(TM)s a secondary concern.
It IS surprising that no PC manufacturers have gone that route, since most donâ(TM)t have such a strict or institutional design language (observation, not criticism) and they could easily choose that.
The question then is whether nobody has thought of it or if nobody can make it workâ"it seems like a straightforward solution, so I have to wonder if itâ(TM)s less feasible than it sounds.
So the color in an image or video workflow looks good when worked on over a few different apps and within the OS.
its not even the quality of the display, just that the apps and OS are able to support the same color over all apps and the OS.
Thats about the last part of an OS that Apple can still offer that Widnows and its GPU workflows still need to offer.
Its not for the ram, cpu, gpu, apps anymore. Windows and Linux have most of that now and support cpu and ram to much better levels.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
"his has to do with the T2 chip and the encryption built into the system"... "and more to do with securing the device from the users."
There he is! There's the guy who thinks he understands technology, but ultimately doesn't.
Hint: If you did, you'd understand why it works this way.
Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
In reality the CPU should be attached to the back plate and then the motherboard fitted over it. This would allow the entire back plate to be the heat sink and heat exchanger,
An interesting idea, but:
A) Would a device sitting in a 90F room with still air really be able to dissipate enough heat?
B) Wouldn't the back of such a beast get so hot it could set fire to wallpaper behind it?
To me the design seems really well done as it sounds like from what I've read., the fan is overpowered for most work - which means it can stay really quiet most of the time.
What I'm really surprised with is apple never went into liquid cooling with higher end Macs. That would seem to have a certain (literal and figurative) cool factor. With a sealed cooling system it seems like it would be pretty bombproof, I guess maybe such designs have issues with whatever moves the coolant around failing?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Last I checked, Ferrari and co didn't buy stock Hyundai engines, drop them into an escort body mod kit and call it a day after jacking the price up.
High capital cost, that large finned heat sink and radiator heat exchanger would not be cheap, but fan less is a temptation. You would also need to mount the GPU to it and it does require a redesigned motherboard, CPU and GPU one side and everything else the other side. Then using copper instead or even something weird like diamond dust in aluminium composite. The dust might not be that expensive and it would hugely improve thermal conductivity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... (think of the diamond as the aggregate and the aluminium as the binder, hmm, sparkly). The fins could be quite large protruding a couple of centimetres from the base and you could have a fan mounted to it, to run intermittently. Probably only suite the Apple market, the price range to justify it and claim superiority on the rest of the market, could look quite cool dependent upon shape and arrangement of fins. It would be a major visual feature of the product and quite heavy, relatively speaking.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
why lock raid 0 storage to the MB?
Isn't part of that answer in security? With it paired to the MB if you detach the storage you can't read anything from it.
It's not like the storage is slow (this link says 2996MB/s write, 2450MB/s read), how much would have been gained with the x4 link?
I've been out of PC building for a while and do not know what the x4 link is or what it would buy you...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I have a couple of older Macs at home - a MacBook Pro and an iMac. Both of which I was able to upgrade to some degree.
Anyone who wants to tinker at this stage of computer use, the iMac Pro does not look bad at all. The pizza-cutter like thing to separate the screen is not that hard and then it's just undoing a few more components and you are in. Then it's just slots and sockets for most of it. It's not like many casual computer users alter those things anymore.
Just like the laptops, eventually someone will offer third party SSD chips. If you want a newer CPU, you can use Apple's eGPU box to attach one.
You can also attach a number of external monitors to the system as well...
Probably though you'll be a lot happier with the next Mac Pro (probably out late this year) which should be directly targeting people who want to alter components more often. The iMac Pro is for people who want a powerful system and don't care about altering it for a while after purchase.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
No headphone jack.
The iMac Pro actually *does* have a standard 3.5" stereo headphone jack. Why would that even matter, I have zero idea.
Already updated to 16gb and SSD
Base iMac Pro ram is 32GB...
You say "SSD" like that means anything. Does YOUR SSD do writes on a fully encrypted partition at 2996MB/sec?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Wait... they actually have a chip called "T2"?
What's next? Will they be renaming iCloud to "Skynet"?
#DeleteFacebook
Do the math or it won't happen. I've seen honking big heatsinks for wireless base stations that was far less power than that Xeon and GPU. They were pretty toasty.
no way to recover data is bad as well offline data copying. Mix in ssd wear and you end up with an 5K brick down the road.
Weren't the last G5 PowerMacs watercooled?
I totally forgot that Apple did do that...
Though looking at the reports of leaking I can see why Apple has been reluctant to bring that back. Who knows, with the new Mac Pro later this year maybe it will be back (hopefully better sealed).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
no way to recover data is bad as well offline data copying.
Not if you are persistent with backups (Hello, Time Machine). The risk of drive failure is why I've not done external Raid0 before, but with only two chips in an internal system it seems pretty reliable (bound to last longer than the system would be in service) - and since they are socketed repairs would be quick, and replacement easy as well if you thought the SSD's were getting too old in 5-10 years or so...
It's not like most external SSD's are not raid0 internally anyway, yet you hardly ever hear reports of failure from a chip inside blowing out completely. Any drive system could fail at any time and in ways that mean you better have a backup.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
3.5 mm stereo jack
Indeed, it is not a 3 inch hole in the back. Though you can imagine Monster salivating over the thought of how much metal would go into a gold plated adaptor plug.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
^^ Best comment of 2018 so far!
The SSD storage chips are defiantly custom
And let's hope they never change. Fuck the establishment!
Q: Now Apple have switched to Intel chips what's the difference between a Mac and a PC?
A: About $500
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
no way to recover data is bad as well offline data copying. Mix in ssd wear and you end up with an 5K brick down the road.
No Pros are going to keep their generally large datasets on internal SSD, anyway; so what's your point?
And, if you are still using that iMac Pro in THIRTY YEARS when SSD wear out MAT become an issue, then I think you can afford putting in a new pair of SSD modules.
Oh, and as far as "losing everything": It's called Time Machine. Look into it.
servers have hot swap may and stuff like CEPH, ZFS etc make you need to have so you can pull disk out of a failed storage node and put them into an other one to get them back up!
Most people don't give a damn about making something repairable or end user upgradable...
In other news, most people don't give a damn about any topics which they know nothing about. Any other gems of profoundity to offer?
Lotus has. And at least according to Doug DeMuro it's a good move
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
An OS that isn't terrible?
Me either. But I'm more concerned about a supposedly "Pro" device that doesn't have a removable GPU. That's something that high-end pro users are likely to want to upgrade, whether because they need better performance or because the old one exhibited solder bump failure after two years and they don't want to have to replace the entire motherboard for most of the cost of the computer. You might be able to argue that soldered GPUs are necessary on laptops for mechanical reasons (vibrations loosening connectors), but on a desktop, they're an inexcusable design flaw. There's just no defending that decision.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
The luxury product comparison sounds like a straw man argument.
Macs are not very expensive when you compare similar hardware. It's just also very difficult to find similar hardware. Remember "it has speakers" isn't the same as what the iMac has. Similarly, "It has a camera, isn't the same as the iMac", "it has a keyboard...", "it has a display", "it's very quiet", "it has technical support"... it goes on and on.
Most people don't need half the features it has, and would rather have upgradability, more storage, blah blah. So it doesn't make sense.
The iMac is great if you need most of what it offers. Otherwise, it's a lot of money for stuff you don't need.
The Samsung 960 Pro real world performance is more like 2000MB/s write - best case
Remember, that 4000MB/sec speed was for WRITES in the iMac.
It's nice you can get close (for reads, though 500-800 MB/sec is still a pretty large difference), but there is no way your SSD is performing at twice the speed of that review for writes... and if you are getting over the rating in speed (especially way over 500MB/sec faster) you have some kind of cache affecting results.
I have a Samsung 850 SSD I use in an external enclosure, but it doesn't show any higher results than ratings or review scores, and is substantially below the iMac Pro in performance rating.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That's Apple's consumer base. Compare the average IQ of iPhone users to that of the people on the Mayflower and you will see how far we have fallen.
Alternative Right.
Personally, I prefer Citizen Eco Drive and Skaggen. It's a style thing. Love MacOS, can not deal with the current prices and inability to upgrade. Bought a Lenovo Y410p back in 13, i7-4700MQ and it still is blazing fast. Not as pretty. Screen is not as good, but I dropped 16GB of Ram in it, a 256GB Crucial M2 SSD, and these days Kubuntu 16.04. I realized what I liked about MacOS was functionality, and that can all be reproduced in KDE.