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Kansas 'Swat' Perpetrator Had Already Been To Prison For Fake Bomb Threats (go.com)
More details are emerging about an online gamer whose fake call to Kansas police led to a fatal shooting:
- "After phoning in a false bomb threat to a Glendale, California TV station in 2015, Tyler Barriss threatened to kill his grandmother if she reported him, according to local reports and court documents." -- The Wichita Eagle
- "The Glendale Police Department confirmed to ABC News that Tyler Barriss made about 20 calls to universities and media outlets throughout the country around the time he was arrested for a bomb threat to Los Angeles ABC station KABC in 2015... He was sentenced to two years and eight months in jail, court records show." -- ABC News
- "Within months of his release in August, he had already become the target of a Los Angeles Police Department investigation into similar hoax calls... LAPD detectives were planning to meet with federal prosecutors to discuss their investigation..." -- The Los Angeles Times
- The Wichita Eagle reports that even after the police had fatally shot the person SWauTistic was pretending to be, he continued his phone call with the 911 operator for another 16 minutes -- on a call which lasted over half an hour.
- Brian Krebs reports that police may have been aided in their investigation by another reformed SWAT perpetrator -- adding that SWauTistic privately claimed to have already called in fake emergencies at approximately 100 schools and 10 homes.
Just last month SWauTistic's Twitter account showed him bragging about a bomb threat which caused the evacuation of a Dallas convention center, according to the Daily Beast -- after which SWauTistic encouraged his Twitter followers to also follow him on a second account, "just in case twitter suspends me for being a god." Later the 25-year-old tweeted that "if you can't pull off a swat without getting busted you're not a leet hacking God its that simple."
Barriss remains in jail in Los Angeles with no bond, though within three weeks he's expected to be extradited to Kansas for his next trial.
if youre gonna swat and make bomb threats don't brag about it on twitter.
Better yet, don't make bomb threats.
Better yet, just don't be a hazard to society.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
This guy thought he was a l33t hacker because the police hadn't caught him, but it seems like the first time they tried they were able to roll him up in a few hours. He's an idiot with a vastly inflated sense of self worth, and it got an innocent person killed.
I read the internet for the articles.
to make this even more illegal.
In 2015. So why isn't he still behind bars?
overcrowding so they cut your time down.
We need laws which make it illegal for the cops to roll up on someone and execute them on the basis that someone claimed that there was a crime occurring at a specific address. In the best case, they are risking killing a hostage.
Wait, you meant anti-SWATting laws? It's already illegal to do what he did. That didn't stop him. You think making it more illegal would have stopped him?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
needs a good asspounding. And I suspect he'll get it.
We are nearly a year into his presidency and still we have not gone to nuclear war with anyone, mass deportations have not happened, people of color have not been killed en mass like dogs in the street, we haven't even yet had ironically run concentration camps... Instead we have the markets up, the economy is, unemployment sown, ISIS on the run and North Korea talking again... A threat to who the?
This is all fine and good but maybe lets discuss the innocent civilians literally killed by police for no reason? Over-response much? "To protect?" LOL, you mean "target pratice?" Just look at the facts, being a police officer is one of the SAFEST jobs in America but because they have been brainwashed and have triggers on guns they are the MOST dangerous people in the world.
These paranoid lunatics kill who knows how many regular innocent people and while some of it makes news, most of it is covered up.
It's time to discuss whether a military response is necessary for common household domestic matters.
A threat to the DNC.
LMFAO
He should get a gold sticker for "not being in a nuclear war within a year". Wow, what an accomplishment.
If you wonder what the problem with him is to the rest of us, it's the fact that his character and behavior even makes this a topic of discussion.
It's that simple.
Cherrypicking a few things he hasn't completely fucked up yet (while giving him credit that he doesn't deserve) doesn't mean he's been a boon to this country; it means you can't be trusted to pull your hyper-partisan head out of your ass long enough to live in reality.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
He should get a gold sticker for "not being in a nuclear war within a year". Wow, what an accomplishment.
This. Reminds me of those who praised George W. Bush in 2002 and later, for keeping the country safe because there hadn't been an attack ... since 9/11.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Barriss seems to be the person who called in a fake bomb threat to the FCC:
By the way, the fellow who left the FCC bomb threat was apparently Tyler Barriss, the same guy who evidently SWATted Andrew Finch in Kansas, leading to his death. Shortly before the bomb threat, Barriss tweeted on his @SWauTistic Twitter account: “Gonna evacuate the net neutrality meeting guys don’t be upset.” Moments later, the meeting was evacuated. I guess that wasn’t enough to get the FBI’s rear in gear. Maybe they could have saved Andrew Finch’s life. Instead, he boasted:
“l swatted FCC and MLG Dallas l’m not busted yet” he tweeted. “if you can’t pull off a swat without getting busted you’re not a leet hacking God its that simple”
Before Andrew Finch died, I don't think the police were trying hard to find Barriss. After Finch's death, the police found Barriss pretty quickly.
I wish he'd been jailed for his earlier swatting and bomb threats. If he had, then Finch would still be alive.
It will be interesting to see if APK never shows up again because he's now in prison.
No, but the hysterical leftist snowflakes have not slept because they were sure he would end the world.
I expect that Finch's family will be seeking some sort of settlement from California for letting the little twerp out early.
Have gnu, will travel.
Please, can we have more of this, and less of those stupid 'Intel are retarded' stories?
He should get a gold sticker for "not being in a nuclear war within a year". Wow, what an accomplishment.
I bet you're the sort of person who'd complain like mad if there'd been a nuclear war and you had to spend all day hunting dogs to eat until you got captured and enslaved by a warlord and worked for a couple of years on a chain gang until you died of an infection because there weren't any antibiotics for slaves.
Poor old President Trump can win, can he?
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
All of which is coasting on Obama's 8 years of sane leadership. Bill Clinton had the same problem with Bush's supporters trying to take credit for Bill's work the first few years in office.
What is wrong with this fucking community?
All the modded up comments have ZERO fucks to do with this headline.
You guys are all a bunch of fuck tards!
Ohh and this guy, This 25 year old little pussy ass boy, deserves to be strung up and beaten to death. There is no room for his kind in this world.
Depends on when in 2015. If he were put away in March of 2015, for example, he'd have finished his sentence in December of 2017, even if he didn't get early release....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
We are nearly a year into his presidency and still we have not gone to nuclear war with anyone, mass deportations have not happened, people of color have not been killed en mass like dogs in the street, we haven't even yet had ironically run concentration camps...
Yeah, don't you remember Obama's FEMA camps which were staffed by massively imported illegal immigrants who made white folks all afraid and his secret plans to nuke all the Christian churches? Now there was a President with Accomplishments!
Oh wait, Trump's actually boasting about his accomplishments with deportations, his attorney general is working hard to ignore the dangers of the police militarization, and private deportation camps are still getting people killed through neglect.
Instead we have the markets up, the economy is, unemployment sown, ISIS on the run and North Korea talking again... A threat to who the?
The markets were already up, just like the economy, unemployment is on the same trend it was, ISIS was already facing the exact military opposition that Obama had ordered, and North Korea has been making regular threat-discussion-threat-discussion patterns for years. Yet you want us to give Trump credit? Why not give him credit for the sky not falling?
He sure seems to want that!
The fact is, the only difference between Trump and Swautistic is that Trump had to make his fake calls in the 1980s.
that's pretty (#*%ing racist.
Agreed Trump never wins anything in govt. A lame duck from day 1.
Repeal Obamacare
Build the wall
Stop China taking jerbs
The man is senile, and his supporters like you Hal the sock puppet are scrabbling around to find pathetic excuses for his total incompetance.
The mid terms are going to be a bloodbath for the Rethuglicans.
Well I am former infantry and have had about 10+ survival training events as well as have spent a significant portion of my life outside in every environment, so I doubt that highly.
No, I just find piss poor leadership to be exactly that. Piss poor.
Better yet, just don't be a hazard to society.
Who is the hazard? The SWAT team went to a random address, based on an anonymous phone call, and killed the innocent occupant for basically no reason at all.
Barriss should be held accountable. But he didn't "murder" anyone. The SWAT team did that.
Ok, so this punk will get the punishment he richly deserved long before an innocent man was killed.
Now, can we go back to punishing the actual killer — the cop, who pulled the trigger? Unlike certain Michael Brown, this victim really was raising his hands. Why was he shot at? Why will not you and me be shot at in the same situation?
It sure seems like police are trying to throw all of the responsibility on the prankster, the better to protect one of their own... We should not allow that to happen.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Kansas uses the death penalty.
Hopefully they use it this time.
This douchebag just needs to go to prison for a long time....or perhaps just forever. It's clear the first experience did not have the desired effect.
Barriss should be held accountable. But he didn't "murder" anyone. The SWAT team did that.
The SWAT team didn't murder anybody. As long as they were following their department's official procedures, they have "qualified immunity". The SWAT ream members themselves will likely not receive any type of disciplinary actions, possibly a few mid-level administrative/procedure-writing types may receive a negative performance review next period.
At the very worst, one or two officers might be 'let go' and simply get a job at another department.
The elephant in the room in the US is that there are so many laws, rules, and regulations with the force of law that it takes an immense amount of manpower to police & enforce them all.
If they actually held law enforcement officers to higher standards and held them more accountable for their screw-ups, the government would either spend many times more than they do currently or not have nearly the manpower necessary to maintain order and minimal levels of enforcement.
If, in arguably one of the richest nations that's ever existed, you cannot afford to hire enough police to enforce all the laws you've passed in a just and non-abusive manner while not violating civil rights, without having to lower the standards to such low levels and allow them to get away with abusing the public rather than lose a warm body in uniform, perhaps...just perhaps...you've PASSED TOO MANY DAMNED LAWS!!!!1!!
Just something to consider, although my hopes for any meaningful reduction in the size of government and number of laws are very thin.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
where the fuck this kid's jaw is?
But he didn't "murder" anyone. The SWAT team did that.
If I lock you up in a cage, the tiger is the murderer.
But I thought he'd just play with you!
“Replicants are like any other machine - they're either a benefit or a hazard. If they're a benefit, it's not my problem” - Deckard
I for one eagerly await the day when people like "Tyler Barris" can be replaced by replicants even if they do eventually develop their own emotional responses."hate, love, fear, anger, envy". Or is there a difference at all? More human than human. Sigh......
I can't relate to this guy at all.
If it's okay to "retire" replicants, should it not also be okay to "retire" sociopaths like Tyler Barris? And who am I to call him a sociopath? What if we deployed Blade Runner units to destroy all the replicants - or just anyone we deemed to have developed their own emotional responses?
Okay, I'm talking crazy now but sometimes we just have to pick up the pieces and prosecute them after they commit a crime and we can catch them.
How about both?
That means BLM is going to STICK UP for this guy and claim he's the real victim.
The officers (they were not SWAT) yelled at him to raise his hands and to walk toward them, and shined bright light at his eyes. 3 seconds later, he drops his hands and the cops shoot him.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/innocent-gamer-shot-dead-kansas-wichita-swatting-andrew-finch-a8134521.html
If, in arguably one of the richest nations that's ever existed, you cannot afford to hire enough police to enforce all the laws you've passed in a just and non-abusive manner while not violating civil rights, without having to lower the standards to such low levels and allow them to get away with abusing the public rather than lose a warm body in uniform, perhaps...just perhaps...you've PASSED TOO MANY DAMNED LAWS!!!!1!!
That's weird, I'd have thought some european country would be the champion of too many laws.
I guess they don't kill enough of their citizens to qualify.
The SWAT team didn't murder anybody.
From a legal standpoint they almost certainly did not. From a moral standpoint it's definitely arguable that they did.
I've made bad decisions in my life and lived with the regret, but none of those decisions has ever resulted in anyone losing their life especially not an innocent person's life. I don't believe the cop who killed an innocent man wanted to take a life that day but I would have a hard time living with myself if I had been the one to kill that guy.
Even if no charges were ever brought against me (and they almost certainly wouldn't be) I would feel guilty for the rest of my life. I would relive that moment and ask myself why I felt I had to shoot a man who I would later learn was unarmed.
It's not a simple case of murder because it's definitely not that but it is an example of how law enforcement in the US is unjust and harms the innocent.
"hoax calls" "pranks" "fake emergencies"
Is it because his 4chan buddies won the presidential election that media and courts are still treating him as if he were a radio host with a weird sense of humor, instead of the terrorist he is?
Uh . . no.
He set into motion the chain of events that ended up with the death of an innocent person. While he didn't pull the trigger himself, he is the root cause of WHY an innocent man is dead.
On that note, the cowards that pass as police these days really need to take a step back and review their procedures. You don't show up to someone's home with an overkill of deadly force at your disposal simply based on hearsay. That's how innocent people die and if the police are so easily manipulated, it doesn't speak well for their professionalism. ( or intelligence for that matter )
Not that the police usually care, but once enough innocent people die due to Law Enforcement incompetence or outright murder, things can get ugly in a hurry. See the events that unfolded on July 7, 2016 in Dallas as an example.
It is in their best interest to start acting like the professionals they're supposed to be.
Not the typical thugs they have become.
Is everything "fake" now? The caller did not make a "fake call" he made a real call with a fake threat. The increased use of the word "fake" reminds me of the the past use of the word "hoax" as in "hoax device." Whenever some object could not be identified by a random idiot on the street it was labeled a "hoax device." Traffic monitor with a cable across the road and antenna, "OMG, hoax device, hoax device!" LED, "OMG sounds like IED, hoax device!" Cardboard box blown off the back of a truck. Yeah you get the idea.
So what, you say. Language and the practice surrounding that language change the way we look at reality and the consequences can be deadly. The "hoax device" period trained people to ignore actually suspicious objects and behaviour.
Nope... it's like he was just randomly chucking bricks off an overpass, and was unlucky enough to have gravity kill somebody with one.
Holy shit will you SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY? I'm getting sick and fucking tired of you sidetracking and hijacking every single fucking article with your whiny political bullshit, you obnoxious, uncultured, one-track little shit.
Almost as funny as those praising Obama for not destroying the economy after 2008.
Sure thing Lt; thing is when the apocalypse hits you won't have the rest of the platoon to babysit your ass.
There, they will get released after a while, unless they manage to do something really large. People like this one need to go under permanent supervision. At the same time, it can rightfully be said that this person is insane and hence prison is again not the right place, as punishment will accomplish exactly nothing. (Yes, I do understand that prison in the US is about revenge and economic incentives, not punishment. But unless the US stops using the mind-set of a stone-age primitive here, problems like this will not get solves and will continue to cause significant damage to society.)
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
There are much older societies, with bigger government than the US that have even more laws, but don't end up with the police slaughtering people left and right. There's a seemingly unique quality to US policing that results in more officer-involved shootings. Maybe it's the number of weapons in private hands, which means US police have to go into every encounter with a civilian as if it were against an armed combatant. Maybe it's just that policing in the US is a more macho, militarized affair.
I honestly don't know the answer. Maybe there's something unique about the US that makes us more likely to be violent.
You are welcome on my lawn.
How is this shit stain not already rotting in a prison morgue? Why is no one going after the other commentators as willing accomplices and co conspirators.
I've not watched the body-cam video on the page linked above but wow. How far away were they? It looks as if they got the wrong address and once the mistake was discovered, couldn't be bothered to drive even vaguely near the correct address!
Unless the murdered householder had a sniper rifle, what possible danger could he pose?
Requiem for the American Dream
I think the gp was operating from an assumption that not all swat involvement results in murder.
Requiem for the American Dream
This woman's father got killed by cops on the north georgia border over new years eve. Looks like the result of a divorce/custody dispute.
Perhaps the police and swat should be forced to dogfood their service.
Once per day, the home of the relative of a police/swat-team member should be swatted randomly. Pretty soon, procedures would change.
Requiem for the American Dream
I would relive that moment and ask myself why I felt I had to shoot a man who I would later learn was unarmed.
I would assume you could then immediately answer that with "because I believed he was armed and did not want him to murder me or anyone else".
Pretty short discussion, really.
Nope right back at ya... it's more like he ordered pizza for someone else's house and the pizza guy murdered the guy opening the door for no reason. Really just like that as that exactly what happened.
Requiem for the American Dream
They can't. It's a fact that states love to export their criminals if they can, and most every state is doing it. How it works is they put out a felony arrest warrant for the criminal, criminal flees state, that's it. When the criminal is caught in another state, they just refuse to pay the local police to house and ship him, so the local cops let him go. He knows if he goes back to the state with a warrant, they'll arrest and prosecute, but if he stays out of state he's free unless he gets news coverage or something.
There are something like 180,000 felons not getting extradited because the state with the outstanding warrant doesn't want to pay for the arrest, shipping, trial and incarceration, and their crimes include rape, murder, and child molestation. Some have been arrested a half dozen times, and are freed each time.
Many of them are repeat offenders, but you just can't sue a state for not wanting to spend money, apparently.
but you just can't sue a state for not wanting to spend money
You can if your kid's school district doesn't get enough money. Even if you can't demonstrate any damages to your kid.
You can also sue if the state screws up and releases an inmate early, causing you subsequent harm.
Have gnu, will travel.
Police departments already use teleoperated machines versus bombs because the situation is too hazardous for in person physical contact. If it's a situation where they're that scared of getting shot, perhaps they should send a machine with cameras and a speaker so that they can interview the person they think is dangerous without feeling so afraid that they shoot someone.
America doesn't need or want an occupying army of paramilitary police in every city. Restore civil government. Disband all SWAT teams now.
Good morning, Agent Smith! How's the weather in Fort Meade today?
B. Clinton sold our country up the river to the Chinese. If anyone in politics is a traitor, it's B. Clinton.
We DO have far, far too many laws. Many of which are badlaws.
But - the cops DID murder that man. That the murder occurred in compliance with badlaws makes it no less reprehensible.
Why would our masters employ teams of paramilitary thugs if not to murder citizens?
SWAT teams have no place in a free country. A free country has no SWAT teams.
...You do realize Obama wasn't President until January 2009, right? He had nothing to do with what happened in 2008 (aside from his role as 1 senator out of 100).
The time has come:
War on Drugs War Crimes Trial
The paramilitary thugs who have for decades terrorized our communities must be called to account. Nuremberg for the bosses. Truth & reconciliation for the foot soldiers.
Nope... it's like he was just randomly chucking bricks off an overpass, and was unlucky enough to have gravity kill somebody with one.
More like he anonymously told the police that a bad guy would be driving under the bridge, and then the police randomly chucked bricks off the overpass.
He's brown. It would be unfair to have yet another college age person of color behind bars! Check your racism asshole! He deserved early release because America is racist.
Swatting that results in death should absolutely be a capital crime. The only differences between that and hiring a hitman are that you don't have to fromt any cash, and your odds of success are lower.
But hey, you can always try again.
The vast majority of people who get shot by police are black.
"There's something unique about the US that makes us more likely to be violent" is only a mystery if you're unwilling to consider institutional racism is a motivating factor.
They showed up at a hose that didn't meet the caller's description, fired within seconds at distance, at someone for all they knew was one of the purported hostages. Of course the cop attached to the itchy trigger finger needs to spend a few years in prison for manslaughter. Cops get false or misleading calls all the time - if they can't assess the situation without killing a person in 5 seconds, they have no business being a cop.
Prioritization. Cops can always concentrate on actual crime, as opposed to nuisance traffic or pot possession tickets.
Nah, they'd just know that they can't "screw up" and get away with it. When every cop knows a cop who did time for kidnapping (false arrest), breaking and entering (search without a warrant) they'll stop acting like unaccountable goons.
The vast majority of people who get shot by police are black? Really? Do you really believe that?
I can't refute your statistic, mostly because I can't find data on people that get shot by police but not killed by them. The data for people killed by cops, however, is quite clear - black people make up only 25% of people killed by cops in the USA. That's less than halfway to becoming a very *tiny* majority.
Here's an article for you to read about it:
http://www.newsweek.com/police-shootings-killings-us-unarmed-black-reform-michael-brown-764787
Unfortunately, I know you won't read the article. You've already made up your mind. Or maybe someone else made up your mind for you. Sad.
While I can't comment on just simply shootings, the vast majority of people who get FATALLY shot by police in the US are "white". According to the washington post, in 2017, there were 987 fatal shootings and 457 of those were "white", while 223 were "black". How is 223 greater than 457?
No, they wouold not.
First of all to 'manage' that you need pranxters that call for SWATs on police families. Most likely that would imediatly ring bells. If not and a few officers shoot family members of other officers, they simply put out a new law: death penalty to pranxters that cause a death.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
the cowards that pass as police these days really need to take a step back and review their procedures
You nailed it. The rules of engagement for cops are insane. Given a deadly error that results in either a cop being killed or an innocent civilian being killed, I'd pick the cop every time. Cops sign up to do a risky job: if they're going to make a deadly error it should be at their own expense. Serve and protect. If you can't keep your wits about when you think you see someone reaching toward their waistband, you need to be in a different line of work.
Every country with a working government and society has SWAT teams.
But as the name originally suggested: Special Weapons And Tactics. Those are only needed in terrorist attacks, plane hijackings, or bank robberies with hostages.
In a phone call like that, in Germany probably the next best police car having officers with wests would stop by.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Did you screw up and type that into the wrong window on your screen? This isn't Global Chat on a WoW server, tard.
Which reminds me that Bama got the Nobel Peace Prize, which they handed to him ASAP so as to not really see what he would do as an actual acting President. Then he started killing people big-time in the Middle East with cruse missiles.
They showed up at a hose that didn't meet the caller's description, fired within seconds at distance, at someone for all they knew was one of the purported hostages. Of course the cop attached to the itchy trigger finger needs to spend a few years in prison for manslaughter. Cops get false or misleading calls all the time - if they can't assess the situation without killing a person in 5 seconds, they have no business being a cop.
I agree. I was simply stating what is more likely to happen in our broken system.
The low-hanging fruit pays more into State coffers and are usually nonviolent and so typically involve less officer risk. I understand that most laws are written with the expectation that only a fraction of those breaking that law will be caught, and that police can prioritize. However, that only goes so far. Once the number of laws grows past some point, many of those laws become stacks of nearly-forgotten seldom enforced laws that eventually become a selective-enforcement minefield for citizens and an easy way for police and the politicians to bully people.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
In 2016:
1604 Americans were murdered by knife. With a population of 323.1 million in 2016, that works out to a knife-murder rate of 0.496 per 100,000.
175 Canadians were murdered by knife. With a population of 36.3 million in 2016, that works out to a knife-murder rate of 0.482 per 100,000.
71 Australians were murdered by knife. With a population of 24.1 million, that works out to a knife-murder rate of 0.295 per 100,000.
213 people were murdered by knife in the UK. With a population of 65.6 million, that works out to a knife-murder rate of 0.325 per 100,000.
Despite the widespread availability of guns, Americans killed each other by knife at a higher rate than other countries. So it's not the guns. There's just something about Americans which make them more likely to kill each other, period. In that light, it's not at all surprising that U.S. police response is more aggressive than in other countries.
"I didn't murder anyone! I just locked them in a room with hungry tigers and poisonous snakes. The animals killed him, not me."
And just like police don't kill everyone, people work with hungry tigers and poisonous snakes every day in hundreds of zoos worldwide, so obviously, it wasn't dangerous, right?
No, fuck you. Barriss is a murderer. He deliberately put someone into a life-threatening situation. He KNEW there was a risk of injury or death, which is the REASON he was SWATing people in the first place.
This time, it was bad enough that people actually cared to arrest him. That's the only difference.
Hack-0-matic needs some static. Give the perp life + 50 at a hard-case southron rockpile. Frisky byteboyz need to be taught their lesson !
Pssssst... It's prankster. Are spell-checkers not a thing where you live?
I had heard differently. They correctly arrived at the address given, and the police made no error, other than the policies that encourage execution of unarmed innocents.
Have you a cite for the police showing up at the wrong address (rather than the correct fake address)?
Good self knowledge?
It's easy to moralize when your life isn't on the line.
The majority of people shot by the police in the US are white. Black people are vastly overrepresented compared to the portion of the population they represent, but they don't come close to a majority of victims. Stop getting your information from Tumblr.
"We DO have far, far too many laws. "
If people stopped acting like criminals there would be no need for laws. One of these days people will start to realize that it is not the government causing todays problems it is the citizens. In a democracy the public ends up with the government you deserve. The current President is a shining example of this concept. People should start asking themselves how they ended up so bad that someone like Trump looked like a better choice.
The vast majority of people who get shot by police are black.
Bullcrap. In 2015, 1388 people were shot by police in America. 318, or 23% were black. That is not "the vast majority".
More blacks were shot as a percentage of their population, but it is roughly in line with their higher crime rate. A black man is more likely that a white man to have a encounter with the police, but either encounter is equally likely to result in a shooting.
Way too many people are killed by the police in America, but it is not "all about race" or even "mostly about race".
How large a percentage of the US population is black? According to a quick Google search, around 13%.
These are the kind of numbers we need for statistics to make sense. With 13% of the population making up 25% of a statistic, that percentage has a marked increase in chance/risk of whatever the statistic is made to show. In this case, risk of getting shot and killed.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Don't start giving criminals and ex-swattees any ideas....
The use of SWAT teams has skyrocketed since the early 1980's. The 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution has been in existence a hell of a lot longer than that, so I don't think it's an issue of there being a lot of guns in private ownership.
We gave the creep a second chance; and, he blew it. While the appropriate punishment should be something like defenestration 30 stories up, keelhauling, or drawing and quartering these are considered to be cruel and unusual punishment. But a later article here has suggested something that would be ideal and is considered by Telenav to be completely normal treatment for human beings. So we'll take up their suggestion, put this fellow in a immobile automobile with their advertising service for at least 12 hours every day for the rest of his life. Now, should we provide him with the means for suicide or not?
And I'm not sure if I am making a joke or not.
{o.o}
If you're daft enough to not already realize there is a lot of inertia in government and bureaucracy, there's really no much point of replying...so I'll end here w/o expanding further.
In case of a hostage situation? Are you out of your mind?
It only pays more into coffers if the revenue from fines exceeds the cost of enforcement. Often it doesn't. The presumption, though, is that many crimes are gateway crimes, and so save money longer term. This may sometimes be counter productive if people are criminalised and lose opportunities, so maybe other forms of intervention or support might be more effdco
This really looks ugly. Basically two angles: the choice to shoot was the officer's unreasonable action. But if swatting could not lead to such consequences, it would not be a thing in the first place. And this guy clearly is criminally insane and thus belongs in a mental institution rather than in prison.
USA had the most cars on the road by a long shot during the age of leaded gasoline.
Anyone who has played X-Com (and many other tactical games) knows what "95% chance to hit" means :-D
Every country with a working government and society has SWAT teams.
No, the only country with SWAT teams is USA, because "SWAT" is the name specific to the USA's paramilitary law enforcement unit. If you meant to say that every single country with a working government and society has a paramilitary law enforcement unit within their otherwise-civilian police force then that's not true either.
That quality being "anybody could be carrying a gun".
Only if the pizza guy wears combat armor, carries a firearm when on duty, delivers the pizza pointing a weapon at the customer and likes shooting first, asking questions later.
Murder charges are not strict liability - you need to be able to show the accused intended the death. It's not enough for the accused to have merely caused the death through reckless stupidity. If it were, there would be a great many bad drivers on death row.
That's what manslaughter charges are for.
It's easy to moralize when your life isn't on the line.
At the distance and light conditions and view on the target we are talking about, the police officer's life wasn't on the line. Anybody thinking differently is severely unsuitable for doing police duty as they would be a danger to themselves and others.
Black people being shot by police make up such a small number next to the amount of black people killed by other black people that it's laughable this is even a thing.
Police make mistakes and shoot more white people than they do black people. Compared to the crime statistics, white people are 2 times more likely to get shot for committing a crime than black people.
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Just... somebody.. please... KILL THAT GUY damnit !!
but you just can't sue a state for not wanting to spend money
You can if your kid's school district doesn't get enough money. Even if you can't demonstrate any damages to your kid.
Not related, that's an obligation of a different sort. Arising from clauses found in the state constitutions regarding public education.
You can also sue if the state screws up and releases an inmate early, causing you subsequent harm.
Not related either, that's not the same as an early release that's deliberate, that's an error.
It's the difference between negligence and policy. And it's quite possible sovereign immunity will lead to a dismissal anyway.
There is a difference between a lawsuit and prevailing in one.
There's just something about Americans which make them more likely to kill each other, period.
From a single year's data? Solandri, I might as well use you as an example of the bad education of Americans due to the faulty quality of your arguments.
Except I know better.
you won't like the answer...
liberals got him out of jail because he dindu nothin.
No, why would I?
How many days/weeks would it take to assemble a SWAT team for a simple thing like a house hold hostage situation?
The local police can handle that just fine, without Special Forces.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Actually, it's vehicular homicide that gets strict liabilities involved.
However in this case, intent and awareness of the possibility of death are established. May or may not be called murder in Kansas, I don't know their terminology.
The problem of US violence is not police, it's guns plus individualism. The problem of US is US.
The sooner we ditch so callled American spirit to the trashbin of history, the better.
US has always been backwoods retarded European colony, same as Australia or Canada.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
These are the kind of numbers we need for statistics to make sense. With 13% of the population making up 25% of a statistic, that percentage has a marked increase in chance/risk of whatever the statistic is made to show. In this case, risk of getting shot and killed.
You are correct, if black people are 13% of the population and 25% of people killed by the police, that's not right. However saying "the majority of people shot by police are black" is still untrue and gives a very wrong picture.
>Barriss should be held accountable. But he didn't "murder" anyone. The SWAT team did that.
Look up Charles Manson in your recent history books. He didn't murder anyone either. He was convicted and sentenced to death. It was commuted to life in prison when California abolished the death penalty.
But he didn't "murder" anyone....
You are an imbecile upvoted by 4 randomly chosen imbeciles
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Tell that to Trump
Whoever wrote this (was not me) has a point. He has been making bomb threats for a WHILE. SERIOUSLY. When is HE going to spend time in prison for THAT?
Also, the asshole who is the subject of the story, here... needs to go back to prison for however long the guy whom he remotely killed by exploiting a vulnerability in our society and how it handles reports of emergencies, would have lived. Oh, what? We do not know how long that would be? Oh well. Tough shit... I guess the fucker just has to stay there forever.
As long as he is just killing dumb redn3ck whites people the world will say mehh and not worry about it after the news cycle. Now if he had swatted a Democratic city official and kill3d an important official we wwould bring th3 might of the USA to enact swatting reform.
This piece of trash deserves the ass-kicking he is going to get in prison.
Murder charges are not strict liability - you need to be able to show the accused intended the death. It's not enough for the accused to have merely caused the death through reckless stupidity
Quote: "Many states use the California definition of implied malice to describe an unintentional killing that is charged as murder because the defendant intended to do serious bodily injury, or acted with extreme recklessness." Calling a SWAT team to a home pretending that there is a hostage situation is extreme recklessness. If it ends with a person being dead, it is murder.
Violent law enforcement is also pretty old. From slave patrols to sheriffs in the Old West, the mythology of policing in the United States includes a lot of "leaving the bad guy in a pool of blood".
And now that our police departments have filled with veterans of the longest wars in US history, who find it easier to continue to wear a uniform instead of mainsteaming back into productive society, those wars are coming home. The tactics are different, but the result is the same.
You are welcome on my lawn.
That is a very good point, but the mythology of violence runs through our history prior to the age of the automobile.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Also keep in mind that that same 13% of the population (well, more like 6.5% since it's mostly just the males, or even lower like 3-4% when you bring in the age ranges of 13-45 that usually are involved) are committing 50% of the violent crime in the USA.
When you're in a 4% group that is committing that disproportionate of an amount of violence, you would expect to be shot and killed by police at a higher rate than the white population. It's just a fact of life. In fact, I'd say that if your group is committing 50% of the violent crime, the fact that you don't make up 50% of the people shot and killed by police shows that they are probably using a LOT of restraint when it comes to shooting members of your group.
While I agree that the police are shooting people every day that they shouldn't be, they aren't out hunting blacks in open season like the communist media would have you believe. They're killing indiscriminately, which is still a huge problem.
Correct, the telling statistic are what percentage of Black people are involved in criminal behavior compared to whites. If that number is closer to 25 % than 13% then that's the important statistic. That number is 40%. For certain kinds of crimes like homicide the percentage is even higher 54%.
On that basis whites are not just shot at a higher percent, but a higher percent of whites by criminal population numbers are shot than blacks. Perhaps police are biased against white criminals.
Possibly because it's 2018 and some of 2015 is more than two years and eight months ago?
Own it. Own all of it.
That way everyone will know who to blame when unsustainable policies break the economy and plunge the world into war. Again.
Just because a murder was lawful doesn't mean it isn't murder.
It's not guns, it's stupid American undividualsim, dumbass cowboy mentality.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
It's the difference between negligence and policy.
Policy just demonstrates intent. And that will just make it worse for California.
And it's quite possible sovereign immunity will lead to a dismissal anyway.
Or the case will be heard in a federal court. I'll bet the Kansas District Court would love to drag California in front of their judge.
Have gnu, will travel.
Better yet, just don't be a hazard to society.
Who is the hazard? The SWAT team went to a random address, based on an anonymous phone call, and killed the innocent occupant for basically no reason at all.
Barriss should be held accountable. But he didn't "murder" anyone. The SWAT team did that.
All the media is focusing on the swatting, the guy's history, character, etc. The media seems to ignore the ones who did the killing.
Lots of 911 calls have questionable information. Often they are even made by the guilty party in an effort to look innocent. The police know this. They should have been cautious instead of trigger happy.
(||) Nehmo (||)
Meanwhile, men make up 50% of the US population, but 96% of all police shooting victims. Being black rather than white increases your odds of being shot by a factor 2-3; being male rather than female increases your odds of being shot by a factor >20. Why do we have outrage over the former but not the latter?
These are the kind of numbers we need for statistics to make sense. With 13% of the population making up 25% of a statistic, that percentage has a marked increase in chance/risk of whatever the statistic is made to show. In this case, risk of getting shot and killed.
You are correct, if black people are 13% of the population and 25% of people killed by the police, that's not right. However, saying "the majority of people shot by police are black" is still untrue and gives a very wrong picture.
Blacks get killed disproportionately more because they disproportionately behave in ways that give police the excuse to shoot. They commit more crime, drive more erratically, attempt to escape more, run more, talk back more, more often carry weapons, fight more, resist more, disobey more, and are simply more discourteous. The cops aren't racist. They kill plenty of Caucasians too.
(||) Nehmo (||)
The body count was down, because Obama's people instituted precision tactics to kill just the special non-American (most times) in the undeclared war zone.
That's sorta creepy, ya know.
Obviously, this guy has not learned anything from his previous jail time so now Kansas, apply the death penalty. Problem solved.
Go fuck yourself. The US has no problems except faggots and liberals like you. Why don't you go suck dicks in Europe if you like it so much better there?
So many people here hating the cops. I'm not a knee-jerk cop supporter. Sometimes cops go bad, and those should be treated as the criminals they are. Cops don't get a pass on truly bad behavior. That being said. People need to take a deep breath and look at policing in the US as a profession. Put yourself in this position. Here's your job. When someone is smeared in their own hepatits-ridden feces and walking down the middle of the highway with a shotgun you get called to deal with it. When there's a huge brawl at the local bar and nobody knows how many guns there are in the seething crowd, you get called to deal with it. Unsure the best approach? Too bad, everyone expects you to deal with it and you can't screw up in any way at all. Every domestic disturbance in the worst section of town, you get to deal with it. Drugs flooding the neighborhoods along with gangs..... guess who? And you get to work all this out in a country that is SWIMMING in guns. More guns than people. Who has a gun? Who knows? Nobody really does. You certainly don't. But god forbid you shoot anyone. Half the population immediately assumes you're some sort of John Wayne admirer itching to shoot a brown person. Even if you're a minority yourself, you still get the hatred. Half the population thinks you're corrupt and evil, but they still call you when they are neck deep in the worst situation of their own creation, and expect you to deal with it with the utmost professionalism. Slip up once? You might kill someone, wind up dead yourself, wind up on the front cover of cnn and fox, and your career could be over. For the privilege of this wonderful career? 40k per year plus pension, a bit better once you're a senior officer. Again, bad behavior doesn't get a pass. But this swatting situation...... sorry people, reality check here. We live in a country where there are more guns than people. The cops are called to deal with the hairiest, deadliest, toughest situations and they have no choice but to walk into it assuming that everyone is packing. So, no surprise that they're on hair-trigger alert. Occasionally, very rarely, one of them is going to overreact and someone is probably going to die. Did the cops set up our society this way? Nope. Hundreds of years ago we collectively decided that everyone should be packing. That's just the way it is. But the cops have to deal with it daily. Sorry, but the serial swatter is to blame for this death, not the police. There will surely be an inquiry and it might be determined that one specific police officer failed to follow procedure under the pressure of the situation, resulting in a civilian death. However, the swatter essentially made a career of weaponizing the police against whoever he didn't like. The blame is squarely on his shoulders, and I very much hope that he gets enough prison time that he's old and tired by the time he gets out.
You know, the out of control psychopath with a badge who opened up on an unarmed Caucasian male because he answered the door.
Is he still enjoying a paid vacation?
Early release is a thing. And it's always been a thing, as long as we've had prisons.
Occasionally people suggest doing away with it, and they're howled down with screams of derision by police, courts, prison wardens and governors alike. I'll leave it to you to work out why.
Hint: it's *not* just about money.
The bigger tragedy is how the police never confirmed if this was a real call before coming to this house fully armed treating anyone as a potential shooter. If we don't address how the police acted this will continue to happen. The police should have been treating this as a fake call until they can confirm that it is a real call. People are trying to blame this guy and he is partially at fault but this guy wouldn't have been tragically shot if the police didn't act until they determine that this is a legitimate call before shooting people.
Youre Racist! Blah Blah something about literal Hitler, Trump JR. fascist!
Did I do it right? Im practicing for opening a twitter account!
We are nearly a year into his presidency and still we have not gone to nuclear war with anyone, mass deportations have not happened, people of color have not been killed en mass like dogs in the street, we haven't even yet had ironically run concentration camps... Instead we have the markets up, the economy is, unemployment sown, ISIS on the run and North Korea talking again... A threat to who the?
Note one: Mass Deportations are happening, they're just not completed. ICE is making many more arrests each month and the courts that process deportations are massively backlogged and underfunded.
Note two: nuclear war is not the risk. The risk is the standard playbook that populist authoritarian leaders use: drumming up the risk of war and then engaging in war to distract the domestic population. This is far more likely to happen as we get closer and closer to the re-election calendar.
Additionally, police (including SWAT) go through quite a bit of training. The cop who shot Andrew Finch should go to jail. Period. I don't care if it's a "heightened situation" or not. The police need to learn to de-escalate, and should only be allowed to shoot when there's clearly a gun pointed at them or they've been shot at. Just thinking a possible perp MIGHT be going for a weapon is no excuse to shoot. Period.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
LOADING...
READY.
RUN
I thank you for your implicit validation. You clearly want to disagree but could find nothing within the post to disagree with. Validated!
Requiem for the American Dream
Did I do it right? Im practicing for opening a twitter account!
Nope. Let me fix it for you:
Ima not possible Racist! Blah Blah something about literal love for Hitler, Trump JR. fascist! Sooper-genius! Stable most person ever! Covfefe!
There, now you can post on Trump's twitter account.
Cross border murder incitement.
With the CoD idiots as accessories.
And let's not forget to mention all the former military gear that has been bequeathed upon civilian police forces around the country. The existence of an MRAP with a civilian police force creates a need to use it.
From what I read, he went for his waist, which could have contained a gun. So your "for basically no reason at all" is actually something cops have to worry about... I'm not saying the SWAT officer is completely innocent, but don't say "for basically no reason at all" and fail to mention what he was doing when he got shot.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the nearly 100,000 suppressors (silencers) that have now been distributed to municipal police departments by the federal government.
You are welcome on my lawn.
After seeing the Daniel Shaver video, I can't imagine a net positive outcome. And I say that as somebody who had to go through military training. While suppressors add considerable weight to the weapon at the barrel end, shoot it with subsonic ammo and it's virtually silent.
It's the difference between negligence and policy.
Policy just demonstrates intent.
Exactly. Intent matters. A legal theory depends on that. An accident is one thing. A deliberate act is another. You can't argue following an intentional policy is an act of negligence.
You can be sure this Wichita police officer WILL be arguing that he followed protocol, that he did what he was trained and instructed to do. Why? Because then it's all covered under sovereign immunity.
And that will just make it worse for California.
Nope. Policy will let them off. A deliberate and willful act of policy removes the accusation of negligence from California. Not to mention the judicial order in effect. Yeah, there's a Federal Court telling California to reduce its prison population. California can just say they were doing what said Court ordered, and good luck getting that challenged. And do look at the wrangling in the dissents.
And it's quite possible sovereign immunity will lead to a dismissal anyway.
Or the case will be heard in a federal court. I'll bet the Kansas District Court would love to drag California in front of their judge.
Federal Court? Then the California Attorney General's Junior Assistant Associate Deputy will shove the Constitution of the United States in said judge's face, and walk away laughing.
Actually, more likely, they'd never even appear in court, since getting an attorney to file would be next to impossible. Suing a state? They're going to decide not to do so.
Might even have problems suing the local police.
In 2015. So why isn't he still behind bars?
Time sentenced does not mean time served. Given the US's penchant for locking up pot users for using pot... chances are room was needed to stow another dangerous stoner and he was released early.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Better yet, just don't be a hazard to society.
Who is the hazard? The SWAT team went to a random address, based on an anonymous phone call, and killed the innocent occupant for basically no reason at all.
Barriss should be held accountable. But he didn't "murder" anyone. The SWAT team did that.
Actually he did murder someone... just because it happened by proxy does not clear him of guilt. He deliberately made a fraudulent call to the police that resulted in the death of another person. A smart lawyer would argue for a manslaughter charge (as killing him wasn't an intent, it was a consequence of his action) but there is no way Barriss could deny culpability in this.
Sure the police should have checked their targets instead of going in shooting, but realistically shouldn't have been called out in the first place. Sure the SWAT OIC should be investigated and punished, but that does not absolve Barriss of culpability one iota.
BTW, a smart prosecution will argue for the murder charge as, despite no intent to commit murder, the defendant knew he was putting the other persons life in danger. Given the defendants history this will be an easy win as long as the police didn't screw up the arrest (most acquittals happen because someone didn't follow procedure, not because the defendant was demonstrated to be innocent).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Nope, he started out the situation, both are guilty.
Many of the posters, who are trying to change the subject to the policeman who pulled the trigger, are unfamiliar with US Law. If you commit a felony (911 hoax) and someone dies in the course of event (policeman shoots the wrong guy), then you get charged with murder.
I would not have it any other way.
It's the drug of choice for black people, and it's been that way for decades.
FTFY
I'm sure you have sources for all of your claims.
So you're saying that you're okay with police murdering citizens as long as other citizens murder more citizens than the police?
I was unaware that discourtesy was an excuse to shoot. A fleeing suspect is not a danger to anyone, unless known to be armed and dangerous. If mouthing off to an officer or running away is grounds to shoot, we need to change policies fast.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Hitler became Chancellor of Germany around the beginning of 1933. While he began to solidify autocratic rule almost immediately, after the Reichstag fire, he did not go to war, deport people en masse, or murder on an industrial scale. He did have concentration camps. Nowadays, we have the Obama economic boom continuing, international efforts against ISIS really paying off, and North Korea talking about nuking the US.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Federal Court?
File a civil suit in Texas. Win or lose, just dragging the state of California into court to show how they basically shit on the rest of the country with their airhead policies will be worth considerable political capital. You want clowns like Barriss running loose in your own state? Fine. Just don't let them bother the other 49.
so like the cop that pulled the trigger, who's life was definitely not on the line you mean?
so resisting, disobeying, talking back, and being discourteous are good reasons to shoot someone? Look in the mirror. You are a racist. Your justifications are worse than what the Klan tends to use.