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Ex-Google Employee's Memo Says Executives Shut Down Pro-Diversity Discussions (gizmodo.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: A memo written by a former Google engineer claims that the company's human resources department and a senior vice president pressured him to stop discussing diversity initiatives on company forums, interactions that ultimately motivated him to leave the company. The document, which was written in 2016 and shared publicly this week, provides a striking counterpoint to allegations made by former Google employees James Damore and David Gudeman in a discrimination lawsuit filed against their former employer. Cory Altheide, the former employee who wrote the memo, began work as a security engineer at Google in 2010 and departed the company in January 2016. He recently published his account in a public Google document. Altheide posted several articles and comments to internal discussion groups that promoted diversity in the workplace and was chastised for doing so, he wrote.

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  1. And yet... by TWX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...we have another employee suing because he felt discriminated-against because of policies designed to increase diversity.

    You can't satisfy all of the people all of the time.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:And yet... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The more obvious and simpler explanation is that, like every workplace, if you start distributing controversial stuff it eventually becomes an issue. People ask you to stop because it's primarily a workplace, not a political debating forum, and if it's bad enough you can get fired.

      That's all it is.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:And yet... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When the "minority" is a made up group that experiences "micro-aggressions" and uses those imagined slights and offenses as group think to silence anyone they don't like, then yeah, the minority does win, every time. And it isn't always about diversity, it is about promoting cultural changes that benefit only the minority at the expense of everyone else. To the point of, you can't even write a well reasoned, well researched article of dissent without being fired for offending people with the truth.

      --
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    3. Re:And yet... by JoshuaZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are three simple explanations for this: First, Google's management may just push back hard on anyone rocking the boat in any direction. Second, the pushback in each cases may have come from different people or different levels. Damore seems to have had the most pushback from fellow rank-and file employees. It is possible there's a disconnect between management and employees. Third, Google has many different locations, it is possible that company culture at difference offices is wildly different. All of these explanations are consistent with both stories.

    4. Re:And yet... by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yup. Most people just want to do their work and then go home and get on with their lives. The majority of people tend to keep their heads down and avoid stuff like this which is both why we don't hear about it very often and also part of the reason that things like this can fester for so long.

      I don't think it's possible to maybe even healthy to try to stifle any conversation that isn't work related. There's always going to be political talk around water coolers or over beers at lunch, but when people start trying to effect company policy or process with their own personal projects, it tends to piss off at least one other person who doesn't care for whatever is being pushed. It's the same with more banal stuff like people evangelizing some new programming language or other piece of technology instead of anything political. The rest of the team doesn't want to switch to a new language or framework just because someone did a small side project in it and thinks its cool.

    5. Re:And yet... by lgw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is a line between discussion and Trolling.

      And this is what we don't know about the discussions that were shut down, We're they too trollish? Alternatively, were they too convincing of a viewpoint management didn't like? (I've been told in the past by a manager to stop explaining my cynicism to the new hires because management needed to abuse them while they still believed the lies.)

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:And yet... by Cederic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you do the research you'll find that this definition is in fact a lie made up by racists to try and cover for their racist views and behaviour.

    7. Re:And yet... by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He actually states that the variations he discusses don't have a major effect, that the effect just causes that attaining the holy grail of a 50/50 split to not be quite possible to attain.

      You don't need any magical discussion of human nature to prove that a 50/50 split between genders is impossible to attain, at least in the short to medium term. Fundamentally, it is not possible for an industry to hire more women than graduate with a degree in that field, ignoring the small percentage of self-taught programmers. On average, in the United States, women make up only about 16% of CS grads. So it is physically impossible for the industry average to be more even than 84/16 unless you deliberately leave a lot of men unemployed.

      More to the point, the only way you can achieve a 50/50 split is to leave more than two-thirds of all computer science grads completely idle, and about 81% of all male CS grads unemployed. If you tried to implement this, two things would happen. First, the computer industry would collapse immediately, because it wouldn't be able to hire enough people to meet the immediate demand. Second, the computer industry would collapse even further long-term, because no sane person goes to college for four years known that they have a one in three chance of ever working in the field, and a two in three chance of waiting tables or flipping burgers for the rest of their lives.

      The only way to improve on the gender imbalance is to improve on the number of women graduating with CS majors. That, in turn, has to start early in the education process—ideally as early as primary school. Gender imbalance can't be fixed by changing hiring practices and hoping that somehow 12-year-old girls will see how much companies want women programmers, and based on that, will magically take an interest in sitting inside behind a computer screen all day, learning to code. It is something that can only be fixed by getting more women to start learning CS, which mostly happens before kids are even old enough to know what "gender bias" means.

      What this means for the world is that we need to shift our focus from trying to get more women into software companies, towards getting women into CS teaching jobs in middle schools and high schools, where studies show that girls are more likely to take an interest in learning CS from women than from men. And we need to focus on getting CS into the curriculum in the first place. (Ironically, Trump is right, but for entirely the wrong reasons.)

      Don't get me wrong, I like working at a company that tries hard to recruit women, because the gender balance is healthier, but it isn't doing the industry as a whole any favors, and might even be making things worse, because the pool of applicants is largely a zero-sum game. When one company succeeds, it does so to the detriment of all the other companies. If all the large companies (Google, Apple, Facebook, etc.) managed to reach 50%, you'd have thousands of other companies with zero women programmers. And because most programmers will work for those other companies, most programmers would then perceive computer science to be an even more male-dominated field than they do now.

      Just food for thought. I don't have all of the answers for how to fix the diversity problem. I just have the nagging feeling that we aren't even asking the right questions yet.

      --

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    8. Re:And yet... by computational+super · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can't help but marvel at the dichotomy here, too: when men, who are about 50% of the population, represent, say, 75% of the hires, it's evidence of rampant discrimination. When Asians, who represent about 5% of the population, are 90% of the hires, it's just evidence that "the best qualified rise to the top".

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
  2. "Pro-Diversity Discussions" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Can you think of a bigger waste of time? I'd shut that shit down too. Do that garbage on your own time, at church, or your famous PTA meetings. Life's too short for this crap. Christ! You can't even flirt anymore. Fucking dementors taking all the joy out of life!

    And please note, I am a zenophile. Fucking your own kind/race/nationality is almost gay.

  3. Good! by Murdoch5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem with these pro-diversity talks, is that we're hiring people because they're diverse, rather then if they're skilled and the right fit. If you see a development team who is all white and male, you have SJW's crying discrimination, when in fact, in 99.999% of cases, you have qualified people, the right people working together. People shouldn't be hired because they're diverse, they should be hired because they're the right fit.

    1. Re:Good! by edtice1559 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think that anybody would argue with your point. However, if you find that the people who are the "right fit" are all white and male, it's indicative of some sort of problem. Hiring "diverse" candidates who aren't the "right fit" isn't a solution because you are taking an action that (at best, barely) treats a symptom. In the US, white males are 31% of the population. There's nothing about the other 69% of people that would make the unqualified. If you're genuinely looking for the "right fit" but only seem to be able to hire from 31% of the population, it makes sense to take a good hard look at the reasons. An easier analogy is to imagine that you are selling a food item that only appeals to 31% of the population and you want to grow revenue. Well, if you could make it appealing for 100% of the population, that may be easier than trying to win market share among the 31%.

    2. Re:Good! by religionofpeas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So far you haven't pointed out why I would care whether more women enter the STEM fields

      And why the focus on STEM fields ? There are lots of jobs that have unequal gender participation, but we don't hear nearly as many complaints about those. The elementary school that my kids went to had 15 female teachers and 1 male one. The only male teacher ended up leaving.

  4. Bad headline by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you RTFA what Google execs did was shut down contentious discussions about diversity. Altheide posted pro-diversity comments which apparently tended to spark big flamewars, and he was told to stop.

    The fact is that this is a contentious topic in the tech industry, inside Google just as much as everywhere else (including slashdot, obviously). Google employees have lots of internal communications fora which are unpoliced and heavily used, and the employees are not closely monitored, which creates a risk that when contentious topics arise on these internal fora people get sucked in, wasting a lot of time and generating a lot of bad blood, both of which have significant negative impacts on productivity.

    One of the core tenets of Google culture is that one should always assume good faith and competence on the part of their colleagues (unless proven otherwise, obviously), but that's a tenet that works much better in a small company that is highly selective in its hires. In most situations it works reasonably well in a big company that is highly selective in its hires... but as you grow the law of averages catches up with you and assholes and incompetents sneak in. This is particularly true around areas that won't come up in an interview, like attitudes about diversity.

    As a Google employee, my takeaway is "This is why we can't have nice things." Open discussion fora with light oversight, and a culture of internal transparency and openness are really awesome, but they appear to be incompatible with being a large multinational corporation. Sigh.

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  5. Re:Well, diversity sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    In a system tailored for white supremacists, denying diversity is effectively telling minorities that they should not exist.

    Y'all pretend that being "neutral" is not inherently racist, I'm starting to think that's less stupidity and more maliciousness, I bet you KNOW you have white privilege and you're pretending you're all righteous and just only to maintain your white privilege.

    White people have enslaved other races for centuries and enjoyed the benefits of doing so. Simply removing slavery doesn't magically undo the centuries of subjugation and abuse, white people today are still benefiting from past slavery and there is also the important issue of justice: white people never truly paid for what they did.

    Sorry tech bros, but losing a few job opportunities is a pretty low price compared to the way white people enslaved, raped, massacred and tortured people of color all throughout history. You can complain about being oppressed by minorities when you're in chains, picking their cotton and with your backs full of scars.

    Who do you think sold those black people into slavery - news flash - OTHER black people. White privilege indeed.

  6. Re:Well, diversity sucks... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    White people have enslaved other races for centuries and enjoyed the benefits of doing so. Simply removing slavery doesn't magically undo the centuries of subjugation and abuse, white people today are still benefiting from past slavery and there is also the important issue of justice: white people never truly paid for what they did

    Assigning collective guilt is one of those bulletproof ways of showing what an asshole you are.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  7. You're not nearly cynical enough by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the goal of these diversity talks is to get more skilled candidates by any means necessary. Tech Businesses are concerned that women and minorities don't enter tech because of a hostile work environment. Having worked in lots of all male tech shops yeah, they're right. There's a lot of casual sexual harassment that turns women off. What we men call 'locker room talk'.

    Now, that said their goals are not noble. The point is to have more people to hire from to depress wages. Period. They're not doing this for diversity or SWJism, they're doing it for cheap labor. As always, follow the money.

    --
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  8. Re:The ironic thing is by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1, Insightful

    My impression from reading the posts in the filing is that left wingers in Google are not scared. They simply enjoy the power of being the majority that can bully the minority they despise. Like the guards in the Stanford Prison Experiment.

    (And FWIW where rightwingers have and enjoy abusing that power I find it equally abhorrent. But lately it's been predominantly the left that was lead to temptation.)

  9. Re:Well, diversity sucks... by computational+super · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Funny how you don't have to talk to most social justice warriors for more than about 5 minutes to see that they're far less interested in achieving anything resembling justice than they are in just plain hurting white men.

    --
    Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
  10. Re:Well, diversity sucks... by computational+super · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It bothers me that Americans don't understand what the term freedom of speech implies

    It bothers me that so many liberals (of all people) don't realize that there's the first amendment, which describes freedom of speech from a legal perspective, and freedom of speech as a general concept, and that the two things can be discussed completely independently.

    --
    Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.