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Kansas 'Swat' Perpetrator Charged; Faces 11 More Years in Prison (latimes.com)

Jail time looms for 25-year-old Tyler Barriss, whose fake call to Kansas police led to a fatal shooting:
  • Barriss was charged with involuntary manslaughter, and if convicted "could face up to 11 years and three months in prison." He was also charged with making a false alarm, which is considered a felony. The District Attorney adds that others have also been identified as "potential suspects" in the case, but they're still deciding whether to charge them.
  • Friday Barriss gave his first interview to a local news outlet -- from jail. "Of course, you know, I feel a little of remorse for what happened," he tells KWCH. "I never intended for anyone to get shot and killed. I don't think during any attempted swatting anyone's intentions are for someone to get shot and killed..."

    Asked about the call, Barriss acknowledged that "It hasn't just affected my life, it's affected someone's family too. Someone lost their life. I understand the magnitude of what happened. It's not just affecting me because I'm sitting in jail. I know who it has affected. I understand all of that."
  • Barriss has also been charged in Calgary with public mischief, fraud and mischief for another false phone call, police said, though it's unlikely he'll ever be arrested unless he enters the country. Just six days before the fatal shooting, Barriss had made a nearly identical call to police officers in Canada, this time supplying the address of a well-known video gamer who livestreams on Twitch, and according to one eyewitness more than 20 police cars surrounded her apartment building for at least half an hour.

56 of 428 comments (clear)

  1. What did you THINK would happen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I never intended for anyone to get shot and killed. I don't think during any attempted swatting anyone's intentions are for someone to get shot and killed...

    You called in a situation that led to the police sending in armed, trigger happy troops. These guys are under immense pressure, expecting to have to deal with hostages, armed kidnappers, and whatever else. What the hell did you think would happen - the police would knock on the door politely, walk in calmly, and sit down for some milk and cookies?

    You didn't think. You just went and pulled the trigger, not caring about the potential consequences, acting like it was all a game.

    Sure, the Kansas police bear a part of the burden - the training of their SWAT teams (and other SWAT teams around the country) is far too militaristic, and they call them out far too quickly (although in fairness, that's not always obvious until after the event.) But the bulk of the burden of this "incident" (for lack of a better term.. maybe "debacle"?) falls squarely upon the guy who made the false report, and the culture that considers SWATting to be a "harmless prank".

    Maybe this will be a wake up call, and SWATting will cease to be a thing. But somehow, I doubt it.

    1. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Please quit making excuses for those psychos, okay? Now when the guy walks out onto his porch and he is a fat guy wearing nothing but shorts and you are with 20 other guys, you are ALL wearing enough body armor to pass a Robocop look alike contest, are armed to the teeth with both lethal AND non lethal weaponry AND have bullet proof shields that can take a 12 gauge shot dead on and despite all that you feel so threatened by a fat guy in a pair of shorts you feel you have NO other option but lethal force? Your cowardly ass doesn't need to be doing that damned job!

      I mean for fucks sake people the biggest gun one could possibly hide in those shorts still wouldn't have even scratched the paint on all that armor, yet despite outnumbering the guy 20 to 1, having armor and bulletproof shields AND enough firepower to rival most third world army battalions they STILL can't simply repeat a command or use a fucking taser or bean bag round? Really? Give me a fucking break! THIS, this right here, is what happens when you give a bunch of poorly trained yahoos army surplus hardware and if you can't keep your collective shit together despite having such a lopsided advantage and use one of the mountains of non lethal options at your dispoal? Then someone needs to call a spade a spade and tell these dumbasses to go into another kind of work, because they suck at their jobs worse than a porn star on a Bang bros set!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    2. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by samkass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Prankster"? That doesn't even begin to describe the act of getting armed police to think a life-or-death situation is going on, and that the perpetrators are your target. Even the best police occasionally make mistakes, and anyone who sets someone else up to be at the receiving end of a situation where deadly force is authorized has a reasonable chance of getting his target killed. The caller was the murderer and the police were his weapon, just as if he had hired a hit man.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    3. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Swatting is just plain retarded, I don't understand how can someone find it a 'funny prank'. Everything has limits and you don't joke about life threatening situations or stuff that can cause harm to others. During my studies I managed to spend a couple summers in the U.S. and I had a great time with fellow students, but I never understood some of their pranks (albeit by far not as dangerous as swatting) - it just wasn't funny for me. To me as an outsider it seems more like a cultural thing - there are just too many individuals lacking discipline or common sense to understand where are the boundaries.

      On the other hand American police is also world famous for employing some lethally dangerous morons. There just too many reports when innocent people were shot just because they made a bad move/reaction (maybe due to panic) when police guns were pointing at them. I don't think bulk of the burden is on the teenager - after all cops are individuals accountable for their own actions (they are not like a gun/knife operated by the teenager). They know swatting is happening, and they should keep that in mind while doing their job (sure, it makes it much harder, but deciding when to pull the trigger is the key of their training).

    4. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by johanw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Even the best police occasionally make mistakes

      Yes, but with the US police "mistakes" seem to be the norm and it is news when one of their innocent victims does not even gets hurt.

    5. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the police would knock on the door politely, walk in calmly, and sit down for some milk and cookies?

      Well yes, that's how hostage situations are diffused in much of the rest of the world. The fact that swatting is a thing just shows how fucked up your police are in the first place.

    6. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      Maximum penalty for that one - classify swatting as attempted homicide or homicide depending on the outcome.

      That would cut down the numbers quite fast. And no repeat offenders.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    7. Re: What did you THINK would happen? by Calydor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Comparing it to hiring a hitman is actually the best analogy I've seen in all this mess.

      If you hire a hitman, you are guilty of the murder. So is the hitman. You are BOTH guilty. In the same vein, both the *spits* prankster AND the officer who fired the killing shot are guilty.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    8. Re: What did you THINK would happen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For murder there must be intent or premeditation.. I doubt the policeman knew he was sent to kill an innocent man. Manslaughter would be a more appropriate charge for him.

    9. Re: What did you THINK would happen? by msauve · · Score: 2

      You're wrong. He killed the guy, as he was the proximate cause of the death.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    10. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But the bulk of the burden of this "incident" (for lack of a better term.. maybe "debacle"?) falls squarely upon the guy who made the false report,

      Bull. Fucking. Shit. The bulk of the burden falls directly upon the cop who pulled the trigger. A lesser share of it goes to the piece of shit who called the cops. An even lesser share of it goes to the piece of shit who gave someone else's address when asked for his own. The cops were locked and loaded, the guy who called the cops pulled the trigger, but the guy who gave someone else's address to someone who wanted to have him killed pointed the gun.

      But you can never, ever take the ultimate responsibility out of the shooter's hands. He has the ultimate responsibility to prevent an unwarranted shooting, whether he is a cop or not. Anyone who cannot handle that responsibility should be disarmed immediately. That goes with the territory.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Besides, at that point the guy coming out of his house is not a criminal, not a "perp", but a member of the public. They have no idea what the guy is up to or if he is even armed, and his live comes before those of the responding officers. If the guy makes what they think might be a threatening move, their option is to take cover, maybe tase him, not shoot first on assuming the worst case scenario.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    12. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by Biogoly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wish I had some mod points for ya. This Barris guy is an idiot and deserves jail time and monetary fines (which unfortunately will never be collected from his NEET ass), but he certainly is not a murderer. I'm completely gobsmacked by how many people are willing to defend these jackboot gestapo squads. I mean, this was a residential neighborhood in Kansas for chrissakes and they approached the situation like they were clearing a block in Fallujah. Did they even do a minute of surveillance?

    13. Re: What did you THINK would happen? by echnaton192 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh no. I agree, undertrained, underpaid and trigger-happy american police forces played a big role in this.

      But this guy swatted multiple persons in multiple states! Even if our police is far less trigger happy, I am quite shure that you could get someone killed if you repeat the swatting often enough.

      This guy played russian roulette with other peoples lives countless times.

      - He should have been stopped long ago.
      - Police should be able to detect spoofed or suppressed caller IDs.
      - Police should de-escalate a hostage situation, not fire shots into unarmed people.

      But this was murder: Not only did he know that the US police forces are badly trained and militarized, so he was able to see the danger he was putting his victims into. He did it repeatedly so even by european standards I would argue that eventually, he will get someone killed or badly injured.

      He knew that but did not care - he even went to jail for swatting and continued. He knew of the danger. He did nothing to defuse the situation, he did everything to let the danger appear imminent. Now he got someone killed.

      He is a murderer. No police failure could change that.

    14. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by quonset · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's still obviously much more the police's fault than his.

      Hogwash. The responsibility for this man's death lies solely with the criminal who made the call. It's called proximate cause.

      But for his phone call, the police would never have gone to the residence and interacted with the man.

      This murder lies solely with the criminal whose panties got in an uproar and who thought he'd be tricky and get back at the guy. Congratulations, he played himself.

    15. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by geekmux · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's still obviously much more the police's fault than his. They straight up murdered someone without even giving him time to react. A judgement was made based on incomplete information and a person was executed. Police being willing to murder someone over mere suspicions is the real issue. This idiot prankster should be punished but the murder of this man is a symptom of the way police are trained/operate. Now, they are trying to displace responsibility and clean their hands. In the end, the prankster didn't pull the trigger and there is no reasonable world in which one should expect to be killed by police over a prank phone call.

      Absolutely agree. Putting the spotlight 100% on the prankster is creating the perfect storm in which to simply bury the actions of SWAT behind the hype of a swatting story. I sure as hell hope not, as the family DESERVES a fair investigation of ALL parties involved. The prankster certainly had a part in this and earned his punishment, but he wasn't the one who pulled the trigger and ended an innocent mans life.

    16. Re: What did you THINK would happen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He didn't make a 'prank call', stop calling it that. Read what he said to the emergency operators. He was convincing enough to get them to think this was a time critical situation. That they hadn't gotten time to ask around.

      If someone call in a bomb threat and say that the bomb will detonate in 45 minutes and gives enough information so that everyone involved takes the threat is serious enough, you are not going to want the responders to take a few hours to get a second or third source to verify the threat. You want them to take it seriously enough to act right away.

    17. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And don't forget a modern SWAT unit has rubber bullets, bean bag rounds, tasers, flash bangs, they have tools up the ass that don't kill yet despite having more armor than a fricking knight AND shields that will take anything.he.could.possibly.be.carrying. their first reaction is to shoot the guy in the face?

      They are either trigger happy killers or they are cowards, neither should be in law enforcement. I mean he has a pair of shorts, they have 20 to 1 numbers AND top to bottom armor...and they couldn't find anything less than a shot to the face a reasonable response? Really? The fact that anybody is sticking up for these clowns makes me want to puke, I don't care if the guy who called it in said he was Hannibal the cannibal there is NO EXCUSE for going lethal force in this situation, none!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    18. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are nearly a million police officers in the US. How many of these sort of mistakes do you hear about every day? The number of officers making mistakes is a tiny fraction of 1%, and most of those officers making mistakes don't do it often. Yes there are bad apples out there, but the overwhelming majority of officers are not. And I would not say it is "the norm". If you say that, then you'd have to say that Americans killing/raping/robbing other Americans is "the norm" too. It's not. It's a fairly rare exception.

    19. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      OK, enough with the ignorance already. Every US military leader would not take kindly to being labeled a mass murderer,

      ...but most of them absolutely are, because they were not fighting a war to protect people, but to protect profits . Who gives a fuck how they feel about being called what they are? Ignorance is no excuse, either. It's your responsibility to do your homework before killing people.

      Also intent matters, which is exactly why he's being charged with involuntary manslaughter and not murder.

      That's wrong, though. His intent was to get someone killed. He should be charged with first-degree murder, since it was "willful and premeditated with malice aforethought." Or with being an accessory or accomplice to same, as I have argued, although I am fast coming around to the idea that the cop is the accomplice (and guilty of voluntary manslaughter) and the SWATter is the murderer in the first degree. He planned the murder (via SWAT team) and then carried it out. The only reason anyone SWATs anyone is because they know that it is dangerous, and that the danger goes up to and includes the death of the victim (and possibly innocent bystanders, maybe even babies.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re: What did you THINK would happen? by bryanp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, this is not a good analogy. Swatting was recognized as a prank before this incident. And intent matters.

      Anyone who has ever thought of swatting as a prank is an idiot who should be removed from the gene pool.

      Intent matters you say? The intent of swatting is to send an armed force to someone's house, believing they may have to kill someone. Swatting needs to be stomped down on hard. Ruin some lives. Make an example of them. Make others think "Hmm, maybe I should just stick to posting shit on 4chan."

      --
      "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
    21. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Suppose that there is a real situation with a dangerous armed person holding hostages, and I call the police but there is a typo in the address that I give. Suppose that the police does their SWAT thing at this wrong address and kills someone innocent. Who's fault is it now?

    22. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by mysidia · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's called proximate cause

      Only in a Civil case.

      The responsibility for this man's death lies solely with the criminal who made the call.

      Obviously not..... there's something wrong here, that a random person anywhere in the world can make a caller-id spoofed VoIP call to a police department anywhere in the US: impersonate the addressee/target, conjure up a pretend emergency, and incite sufficient panic that the police go on a shooting spree and kill people.

      How about: The simplified proximate CAUSE of the death is unreasonable actions by the police, which the SWATter could not have entirely anticipated, But the police in this situation Violated their Duty to serve and protect the public and killed innocent people. What about that? Where are the consequences for that, for the officers' gross misconduct?

    23. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Should all swatters be charged with attempted murder even when nobody was injured or killed?

      Yes. That was an easy one! If it's not appropriate, then let them bargain their way down to whatever is.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    24. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by BronsCon · · Score: 2

      We know of one call he's made in the US and one in Canada. Since we're talking about how police operate in the US, only one of those is relevant; so, the short answer is, here has been only one call that we can assume unless he admits to more, and someone has gotten hurt one time. His call-to-death incident rate is, as far as we can reasonably know, is 100%.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    25. Re: What did you THINK would happen? by arth1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They are trained to be quick with the trigger because if they aren't, they may be the ones dead.

      And that would not be a worse outcome than a dead innocent non-police.

      Police, firemen and emergency medical personnel used to be expected to put themselves in harm's way to protect people. Protecting themselves was secondary to protecting innocents. They took oaths on doing so, and people were proud of them for it.
      When did this change?

    26. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by sjames · · Score: 2

      Some things actually call for a much lower error rate. Operating a nuclear plant, flying commercial jet, killing people with your gun, etc.

      In two of those 3 cases, any incident results in a thorough investigation and changes to procedures and practices to make sure it doesn't happen again. In the third, it gets swept under the rug.

    27. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The SWAT team was told not only that was there already a fatality and a hostage situation, but that the house had been doused in gasoline. So the fact that the victim answered the door in his shorts and apparently unarmed didn't eliminate the perceived danger.

      They killed the hostage. In any reasonable police training exercise they would have been failed as shooting an unarmed person who answered the door. Do you know who is forced, at gunpoint, to answer the door unarmed in hostage situations? Hostages.

      Rationalize and lie best you can. Those police have a murderer hiding behind the law and some of them know it.

    28. Re: What did you THINK would happen? by arth1 · · Score: 2

      Firemen and emergency medical personnel seem to still do that.

      Firemen, at least, yes. And people like Medicines Sans Frontiers.
      And I am proud of them. They willingly put their lives on the line so all of us can have better lives.

      I'm sure there still are policemen who would do that too, and not just look out for #1. But they seem to be few and far between these days.

      I have no respect for police anymore. None. I have fear.
      That is not the way it should be, and it is not my fault.

    29. Re: What did you THINK would happen? by HiThere · · Score: 2

      I agree that it doesn't appear to be premeditated homicide by the police, but manslaughter seems too mild a term. What do you call murder by premeditated incompetence?

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    30. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      My observation of two people I know who became police officers is that the job and their colleagues changed them from nice people into utter bastards who prejudge everyone.

      1% is bullshit. There might be 1% who maintain a reasonable outlook and don't prejudge people and situations. But the rest do not. They didn't get into the police by getting straight As.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    31. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unfortunately, the "overwhelming majority" is overwhelmingly likely to cover up for the bad apples.

      My cure for the "blue wall" problem would be to take police malpractice judgements directly out of the police retirement fund, rather than the city's general fund. Good officers would then rush to turn in the bad apples.

    32. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      All that may be true, but I still hold that the police shouldn't have shot him. The police are as culpable as the "prankster" in this case, because it might have been a bad communications, misread map, an incorrect address given, or any number of other possible scenarios that got them hot to trot down to said address. Police shouldn't go around shooting people until they've verified the existence of a weapon and an immediate danger to others. Not either or, not suspected, but verified. That is what we pay them for. As for going home after their shift, that's highly desired and the primary reason they should always work in a minimum of pairs and wear bullet proof vests/jackets.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    33. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by lowkeyknight · · Score: 2

      I'd agree, with the caveat that they should get their pension, regardless of age, if injured on incapacitated in the line, or otherwise medically unfit to work (ether through work related issues like PTSD, or from just plain nasty life shit like cancer).

    34. Re:What did you THINK would happen? by stealth_finger · · Score: 2

      at least reckless endangerment.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
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  2. Psychopath by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    His earlier response shows he's a psychopath, so there' no doubt that he's only feeling remorseful "for the cameras", so to speak.

    --
    Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    1. Re: Psychopath by xenog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, this stood out for me too. The guy is a psychopath. I read some statements he posted anonymously previously, and his mind seems quite warped. He enjoys doing this, putting other people in dangerous situations. I think he wanted samebody to eventually get killed. That makes him a sadist. He is dangerous, and he'll still be dangerous when released from prison. He should remain under surveillance afterwards. These people do not think like regular people do. The way their minds work, they may just as well be another species.

  3. And the police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    As a European the sole focus on the author of the call is really stunning. Itâ(TM)s like itâ(TM)s only his fault and not in any way the fault of your police who tend to shoot way too many innocent people. EU has twice the number of inhabitant as the US and how many EU citizen get killed by the Police? For Germany it is 15x less. why? because in Europe police officer know that there will be consequences for killing an innocent citizen. In US most of the police officer just go away with it.

    1. Re:And the police by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

      Did you not read what the content of the call was or does that not factor into your understanding of the situation? They were under the impression that a murder had been committed and hostages were in immediate danger. **THAT'S** why they didn't send only one officer.

  4. One down, at least one to go by bradley13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok, so this douchebag will get what's coming to him. We're still missing at least one person, though: The cop who shot an innocent, unarmed person. You know, the guy who did the actual killing.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  5. Re:Too harsh IMHO. by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you rob a 7-11 at gun point, and the clerk pulls a gun in self defense and accidently shoots a bystander, not only might you get charged with murder the clerk might not be.

    If someone dies as a result of a crime you committed, you can be charged with murder.

    In this case, the 'prank' was to commit a felony by intentionally reporting a false alarm. For the express purpose of having an armed force dispatched into a private residence, and to maximize their tension by leading them to believe they were likely going into an extremely volatile situation with an armed murderer.

    "He didn't pull the trigger."

    So fucking what? What's next? You'll be telling me that mafia bosses who send thugs to intimidate people aren't responsible for any injuries or deaths that result...

  6. "a little of remorse" by DrXym · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Throw this asshole in prison. He deserves the maximum sentence under law.

    1. Re:"a little of remorse" by Nite_Hawk · · Score: 2

      IF you look at his past and posts I think Murder would have been more appropriate charge, it seems obvious his intent was to get someone hurt or killed, though I guess for prosecutors manslaughter will be the easier to prove and at least keeps him off the streets for a few more years.

      Personally I wouldn't be opposed to murder charges with the possibility of death penalty (let a jury decide his fate). It's one thing for a stupid 15yo kid to do this their first time (though they still should be punished).

      "Barriss, 25, was already well known to local law enforcement. Glendale Police Sgt. Daniel Suttles said he was behind at least two dozen fake bomb threats in the area in recent years, including incidents that prompted the evacuations of television stations and an elementary school."

      "In May 2016, he pleaded no contest to making a false bomb threat and was sentenced to two years and eight months in jail" "He was released on Jan. 20, 2017. A day later, he was arrested in the San Fernando Valley and spent another seven months in jail"

      âoeHe knows exactly what to say. He is very meticulous,â Suttles said. âoeHe knows what a 911 operator will ask and is convincing.â

      He's shown by his repeated actions that he has no interest in being redeemed. Punishment has not deterred him, and now someone innocent has died. He needs to be permanently denied the ability to do this again.

  7. Re: what about the officer? by Catbeller · · Score: 2

    Share, hell. He is the sole killer.

  8. Good reply. Other issues. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2

    You mentioned several important issues: 1) Police are sometimes "trigger happy troops". 2) Police are "under immense pressure". Yes! Difficult job. 3) "Kansas police ... training of ... SWAT teams ... is far too militaristic." 4) "... the bulk of the burden ... falls squarely upon the guy who made the false report..."

    There are other issues. Putting someone in prison for years: 1) Damages that person mentally and increases the mental disturbance they have when they enter prison. 2) Costs taxpayers HUGE amounts of money. The government should be required to post on a web site the cost to taxpayers of keeping each prisoner in prison. 3) When the prisoner is released, he or she is usually less likely to be able to lead a healthy life.

    Norway is rehabilitative, not destructive, to those who commit crimes. Michael Moore's film, Where to Invade Next explored the system in Norway, and prompted articles like this one: Why Norway's prison system is so successful. Quote from that article: "... when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years."

    Being destructive to those who commit crimes is another crime, a crime committed by the government.

    The United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime lists other issues.

  9. A Northern Point of View by Bahamut_Omega · · Score: 2

    To add another source for the attempted swat in Calgary.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada...

    One has to wonder what would happen if he wound up facing a crown prosecutor in Calgary. I'm just curious how many charges he would be hit with under the Criminal Code of Canada.

    I believe he would be busted if he tried doing either land air or sea to get into this country.

  10. What did I think? Police should act with caution. by Kludge · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The caller was the murderer and the police were his weapon, just as if he had hired a hit man.
    If police are just a weapon, then we should get rid of them. Police should be thinking professionals who protect the public, not shoot the public because someone on the phone told them to. They should know what swatting is, act accordingly. At least that is how I think I should be spending my tax dollars.

  11. Re:Involuntary Manslaughter is outrageous by gravewax · · Score: 2

    What the fuck is wrong with you? you seriously think that someone that intentionally endangers peoples lives to the point they are killed doesn't deserve to be charged? this cunt is getting off way to light with manslaughter, you never point a gun at anyone as the consequences can be serious, this cunt pointed a whole SWAT team of guns at someone MULTIPLE times, eventually someone was going to die and it is HIS FAULT. He should be on trial for murder not manslaughter.

  12. Re:what about the officer? by fafalone · · Score: 4, Informative

    He was outside, alone, surrounded by 20 armed officers, all of whom were behind car doors, wearing body armor, at distance. In the half a second it would have taken to confirm if he had a gun, he could have killed.. let's see here... yeah, ZERO people. Reflect on that jackass. Not being sure goes way beyond a mistake, it's straight up murder.

  13. People should also comment by pjv936 · · Score: 2

    on how the person in his own home was killed by the police. Encounters with police in America are too often fatal. The rules of engagement needs to be changed to reduce the risk of killing civilians.

    1. Re:People should also comment by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 2

      How many fatal encounters do you think there are, exactly? Let me enlighten you with some actual facts:

      According to the FBI UCR, the total number of arrests (not traffic stops but arrests) in 2015 was 10,797,088. Probably double that for traffic tickets and other "interactions". Out of all those arrests, approximately 965 were fatally shot. Of those, 564 were armed with a gun, 281 had a weapon of some kind, only 90 were unarmed and essentially all of them were attacking officers, resisting arrest or felony attempting to flee.

      OTOH, there have only been about 54 unjustified police killings in the last 10 years, or about 5 per year So the actual numbers say if you are being arrested, you have a roughly 5 in 11 million chance of being unjustifiably killed by police. I will take those odds any day.

      So you live in your fantasy world where 5 unjustified killings per year makes 11 million arrests (probably 25 million "interactions") super dangerous and the cops are loose cannons who are going to shoot you on sight. I will live in the real world where statistics are a thing and cops are still the good guys far and away.

      Just driving your car to work is more likely to kill you, with 35,485 deaths in 2015 (or 709,700% more fatalities than unjustified shootings by police), yet you don't give that a second thought. Might be time to fix your perception of reality...

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
  14. Re:why isn't the SWAT team in jail as well? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

    It could have been a hostage sent to open the door. So yes, they have killed an unarmed man for no reason.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  15. Re:what about the officer? by Uberbah · · Score: 2

    He supposed had the building rigged, and could have killed all of his hostages in a second.

    Then shooting to kill was still an asinine idea, if he was holding a dead mans switch. Just another bullshit excuse for trigger happy cops.

    If he had a gun, he still could have shot someone - a headshot would kill someone easily, even with nothing more than wimpy little 9mm girl's purse gun.

    Not at range at armored cops with bulletproof shields.

    Trying to pretend there is no way he could have been dangerous is silly.

    Trying to pretend there was any justification for this shooting is willful authoritarian dumbfuckery. For all the cop knew the man walking out and complying with instructions was a hostage.

  16. Re:Charge the police!!!! by Stan92057 · · Score: 2

    Everyone involved should be changed that includes the idiot who gave the swatter someone eases address.and never notified the cops. that jackass is just as guilty as the swatter IMO. Sad part is the cops are nothing more then over paid meter maids to give out traffic tickets to fill county coffers. How the hell does a spoofed call warrant a swat call??????????? send a squad car do some actual police work..

    --
    Jack of all trades,master of none
  17. Manslaughter is under charging by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 2

    The manslaughter charge is actually under charging the swatting perpetrator. A more reasonable charge would be negligent homicide or Murder 2. If suicide by cop is a thing, swatting is essentially murder by cop or attempted murder, depending. It is equivalent in culpability to putting on a blindfold and firing into a crowded street. You are not trying to kill anyone by aiming at them, but by taking those actions, any reasonable person can assume that someone is likely to be killed. Much like a gun, police officers responding to active shooter/hostage situations can be counted on to act a specific way, and like a gun they are deadly in their intent.

    Manslaughter is more along the lines of a bar fight where you are both equally responsible for starting the altercation, but the other guy has a bad heart and dies during the fight. You didn't mean to kill the guy and his death was not an expected outcome of some drunken fisticuffs.

    Cops are trained to behave a certain way when responding to a violent felony/murder/hostage situation. They are keyed up expecting to be facing an armed person who just killed an innocent victim and is likely to do so again at a moments notice. They are still imperfect humans that make mistakes of a fraction of a second, and the fact that an innocent person was killed in this case is a tragedy that that police officer will have to live with for the rest of his life.

    All the pinheads saying the cop is a murderer need to look up the definition of murder, namely, that the perpetrator needs malicious intent specifically against the victim. The cop who fatally shot the victim never laid eyes on him before that moment and by definition harbored no ill will against him, it was the victims bad luck that he made some sudden move, innocent though it may have actually been, that caused the officer to shoot, expecting to protect innocent lives and/or his fellow officers from what he understood to be an armed murderer.

    I hope the swatting perpetrator gets a very public trial and gets the maximum sentence as well as a civil suit that takes every penny he ever makes. Swatting as a practice needs to be severely punished and treated as attempted murder with every incident and investigated both locally and by the FBI. A few more cases like this and we might actually get some investment in proper infrastructure that eliminates spoofing caller IDs (all emergency lines should be able to trace the call back to a house number, IP phones should either be blocked from emergency services, or require a credit card/drivers license pre-authentication to a physical address to access emergency numbers over VOIP). Sure, there will still be a few hundred people on the planet who can place emergency calls anonymously, but no system is perfect, the perpetrator in this case certainly is no hacking genius.

    --
    If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
  18. Moral Conscience by MoralCharacter · · Score: 2

    Amazing how he suddenly acts like he has remorse and a moral conscience now that he's facing significant consequences. This is the same person who very publicly announced how hilarious it was the man died, how him swatting left no responsibility of the mans death on his shoulders, that he had a right to do such things because he was a 'leet untouchable hacker', that he was obligated to severely punish people playing a video game of all things if they slighted him. Over the course of several years he called in multiple swatting and bomb threats to private companies, public events, schools and more because it was 'fun'. The things he's saying now are purely in the hope of reducing the punishments he is about to receive. I hope no one is gullible enough to buy his charade.