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Google's Fuchsia OS On the Pixelbook (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from 9to5Google: Our early look at Fuchsia OS last May provided a glimpse into a number of new interface paradigms. Several months later, we now have an updated hands-on with Google's future operating system that can span various form factors. This look at the in-development OS eight months later comes courtesy of Ars Technica who managed to get Fuchsia installed on the Pixelbook. The Made by Google Chromebook is only the third officially supported "target device" for Fuchsia development. As our last dive into the non-Linux kernel OS was through an Android APK, we did not encounter a lockscreen. The Ars hands-on shows a basic one that displays the time at center and Fuchsia logo in the top-left corner to switch between phone and desktop/tablet mode, while a FAB (of sorts) in the opposite corner lets users bring up WiFi controls, Login, and Guest.
Only Guest is fully functioning at this stage -- at least for non-Google employees. Once in this mode, we encounter an interface similar to the one we spotted last year. The big difference is how Google has filled in demo information and tweaked some elements. On phones and tablets, Fuchsia essentially has three zones. Recent apps are above, at center are controls, and below is a mixture of the Google Feed and Search. The controls swap out the always-displayed profile icon for a Fuchsia button. Tapping still surfaces Quick Settings which actually reflect current device battery levels and IP address. Impressively, Ars found a working web browser that can actually surf the internet. Google.com is the default homepage, with users able to visit other sites through that search bar. Other examples of applications, which are just static images, include a (non-working) phone dialer, video player, and Google Docs. The Google Calendar is notable for having subtle differences to any known version, including the tablet or web app.
Only Guest is fully functioning at this stage -- at least for non-Google employees. Once in this mode, we encounter an interface similar to the one we spotted last year. The big difference is how Google has filled in demo information and tweaked some elements. On phones and tablets, Fuchsia essentially has three zones. Recent apps are above, at center are controls, and below is a mixture of the Google Feed and Search. The controls swap out the always-displayed profile icon for a Fuchsia button. Tapping still surfaces Quick Settings which actually reflect current device battery levels and IP address. Impressively, Ars found a working web browser that can actually surf the internet. Google.com is the default homepage, with users able to visit other sites through that search bar. Other examples of applications, which are just static images, include a (non-working) phone dialer, video player, and Google Docs. The Google Calendar is notable for having subtle differences to any known version, including the tablet or web app.
The problem to solve is why vendors, including Google's own Nexus devices, can't manage to keep hardware support going past about 2.5 years. We're supposed to dump our devices in a landfill every 2 years because they are saddled with unresolved security flaws?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Oh boy, I love new interface paradigms.
That's it? The new interface paradigm is that they have a logo in the top left?
Thank goodness. I was worried that there would be a working web browser that couldn't actually surf the internet.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Is it still possible for me to take control and uninstall the crapware? If not, why would I buy this OS?
Even with Android in a mess when it comes to duplicate apps, Google still finds it prudent to author yet another computer operating system. How this makes sense I not sure. But you tell me whether it does.
Let them fix Android first. Let them make it near flawless first. What's wrong with that approach? Why can't Google first make a credible MS Office replacement; a MS Outlook replacement on [the] existing platform then bother with this Fuchsia?
The fact that Linux is the underlying OS to Android has brought a couple of things:
1. An End to the hardware Nightmares of Linux. Linux generally is not at the mercy of Windows Drivers. Linux Drivers for Android Devices has translated well to Linux Drivers on x86 for Desktop Linux.
2. Root on our devices. Our Devices are our devices. I don't care how much I paid for the Device. If I was sold a device retail and paid for it in full, its mine. I don't care if they were sold on Amazon. We all should be entitled to have root, and unlocked bootloaders on our devices we pay for. The manufacturer can void the warranty, but thats all. So what happens when root isn't a thing because of FushciaOS?
3. I have enough trouble with the LineageOS Team and "unsupported devices running unofficial builds. I really hate LineageOS's behavior twoards GSM Phones, and MediaTek Devices. It makes me furious.
Can't someone make an OS that continues working normally NO MATTER WHAT any app does ?
Captcha: "photon" Call it that: "PhotonOS" (TM) (C) AC 2018
Fuchsia, lavender, pink -- all gay. All very gay.
To all my gay Slashdot friends, I'd like you to post pictures of yourselves dressed up like women. I would like that.
The fact that Linux is the underlying OS to Android
Its underlying in the sense that it is the host kernel, but not underlying in the sense that Android is based on or dependent upon Linux. Linux could be replaced with Fuchsia and most Android apps would not know or care. For those apps using the NDK they may not really care either, depending on Fuchsia's POSIX support.
Just as WWW != Internet.
What you describe, is purely the shell. (If you can call it even that.)
And frankly, if the shell isn't just another program, where I decide which one to use, this so-called "OS" does not even qualify for pre-selection.
Exactly this. Linux was just a convenient stepping stone towards better things. With Fuscia Google will be dumping legacy crap and bringing development of the whole thing in house rather than dealing with some chaotic public mailing list where literally anyone can cause a distraction rather than just the core team. Linux is too focused on irrelevant developers from bit player companies like Red Hat and Canonical. In addition Google will finally be replacing the last big GPL'd piece of code, meaning ACTUAL freedom will be restored to the community and they can all get on with making good software rather than worrying if some asshole communist is going to try to demand to see code he has no rights to.
Watch the Android market.
Android is crippled on the tablets. They're pushing ever tighter limits on Android apps to run in ever less memory. Driving Android Crippled(TM) onto 512Mb $30 phones that don't have a market and away from the high end where it sells loads.
Look at Samsung's response. Notice that Sammy has launched a mass of large powerful tablets, and not one of them runs Android. All their high end tablets run Windows. Nothing bigger than 10 inches, because Android needs to be rotated to do basic operation (still!).
You can see how as Google makes its choices, the effect ripples on. Android is used less at the high end, Chrome still has a niche (about 1%) that is smaller than Windows Phones before they were killed. Google's choice are failing, and the OEMs are giving up on them.
Now suppose Google makes Fuschsia. Which OEM would make a Fuschsia device? None of them. So its down to Google to make that device, and none of Google's tablets or phones sell in volume.
Google Wear? Flop. Samsung's gone with its own Tizen for better battery life and a better interface.
So, if I was the Board of Google at this point, I would thank Pichai for his service, and get my shit together with Android at the high end. Fuchsia? ... how does this help Android? It doesn't? Then it's cancelled. ChromeOS.... why isn't "locked down webbrowser only mode" a setting on Android? Try to get the OEMs back on board for Android at the high end, and stop fragmenting Android (Android apps that run on Chrome, Android apps that run on Android Go etc.), and focus on the one successful OS that Google is totally fooking up right now.
One that has the mirriad of features of the Linux kernel. The many filesystems supported, iptables, so many drivers that are easily added, standard tools to monitor and control (e.g /proc) , ability to relatively easily build standard tools and software (sshd, webservers, network utils).
Even for Google replicating all this in Fuchia with the many millions of man hours Linux has had put into it is probably impossible. But I guess most user's probably don't care about any this. But many embedded Android now in use will but it's unlikely Google cares about these too much.
I wonder if say Amazon will fork Android at Fuchia , given that one of it "functions" is probably more Google control. Do they permanently want to be in a position of taking whatever Google want to hand out, for key products like Alexa and fire TV and tablets.
I would look at some of the more open Linux phones under development out there when/if this happens, personally.
There isn't much choice in the mobile phone space in terms of operating systems so using Google's spyware OS on those devices makes sense. In the PC space however there are plenty of choices available so purposely selecting one which is guaranteed to be as privacy invasive as possible makes absolutely no sense at all. At least Google is somewhat consistent with their privacy policies. If Facebook ever came out with a PC OS they would retroactively make all of your private data public as soon as you actually begin to trust them.
because the world needs yet another proprietary walled garden operating system that allows the manufacturer of the device to retain control over the purchaser's property.
wtf! how can anyone outside google think that this could possibly be a good thing?
fuck. that.
With Google's rich history of axing even popular projects, I fail to see how Fuchsia will get a long life. The story is always the same: A bunch of engineers get together on an exciting project. They make some progress, get their promotions, maybe even launch a half-finished product. Now comes the hard work of finishing it, but most difficult of all is to make some kind of revenue stream from it. That's where the higher VCs and senior VC come in and start cutting. Chopping projects like that might even earn somebody further promotions in "clear leadership". Rinse and repeat on a two or three year cycle.
My bet is that Fuchsia is forgotten by the end of the 2019.
sure if you buy them new and expensive they will have decent run.
but apple sells them 4+ years, making the support for a large part of the buyers(asians) a year and a half if that.
nevermind the thing that made the updates make them less usable and slower...
now the reason for this is that Apple actually does have cheapo phones on the market - their old models. well, not that cheap, 5s is still 9 900 baht (220 bucks or around).
aaand you think people are not buying them? well they are.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
The problem to solve is why vendors, including Google's own Nexus devices, can't manage to keep hardware support going past about 2.5 years. We're supposed to dump our devices in a landfill every 2 years because they are saddled with unresolved security flaws?
The problem is that companies make money immediately when they sell a device.
Not over the lifetime of a device.
They have strong incentive to put immediately a new device out-of-the-door (sometime even not perfectly finished, with still bugs needing fixing), but not much incentive to write updates 2 years down the line (a that moment, writing an update won't translate in immediate money input, diverts ressources from getting the next money making device out, and might even create a competitor for the new device as the old one remains too much useful).
This is a bit alleviated if the company has a tighly concentrated line of device where work for updating one translate into "free" updates for another.
Apple, by having a small set of relatively similar devices is one such example.
A company such as Jolla making a OS like Sailfish is mostly dealing with user space software suite, and beside a few problems with kernels locked to whatever version the hardware manufacturer supports, can actual transfer their update efforts to the whole range too (Jolla1 smartphone is still benefiting of the updates effort and runs the same version of OS as the latest Sailfish X running on Sony Xperia X devices).
The hope of Google, by making their own OS and by making it micro kernel, is that most of the hardware-manufacturer dependant shit will be locked inside a few daemons with precisely set APIs and Google should be able to to replace all the other daemons as needed (file systems, etc.).
As opposed to linux, which is in a constant flux of evolving, and on purpose only exposes an external API to the userland, but might break its own internal interfaces. (So it's hard to port a 4.4 kernel on a piece of hardware whose manufacturer only provided a 3.2 kernel and drivers set).
Of course, if hardware manufacturer took example of the desktop/laptop world, specially with AMD and Intel, and had opensource drivers stack maintained in the upstream vanilla kernel, things would be much more easy...
My expectation regarding Fuschia are actually rather low.
There is a ginormous invested know-how in Linux in the embed world (which itself leverage the even more giant community around Linux). It would be hard to convince all the hardware manufacturer to switch to another completely different kernel and way to develop drivers. It's a very steep uphill battle.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Are there any credible alternatives to Android and iOS?
All I really need is email, a calendar, CalDAV/CardDAV sync and a full-featured web browser (Firefox, ideally). Everything else is secondary, and most things I actually need can be used in a browser.
If the browser experience wasn't so shitty on dumbphones/featurephones, I would just be using one of those instead.
Eat the rich.
They are trying to replace the OS (Android or ChromeOS -> Fuchsia), and replace the UI Framework (Java -> Flutter/Dart).
They would be better off if they do both independently.
Perhaps this would lfirst try to replace ChromeOS.
But Dart? I wonder why they did not use Go?
Internal politics at Google for Android vs ChromeOS vs Fuchsia vs Go will make things interesting.
The iPhone 5s is not out of support.
It sounds like they're rebuilding everything instead of creating a drop-in replacement for the Linux kernel on Android. Why?