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Car Manufacturers Sued Over Rodents Eating Soy-Insulated Wires (hackaday.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the num-num-num dept.

An anonymous reader writes about "a little-known problem plaguing many newer vehicles from the likes of Honda, Toyota, and Kia." The car makers used soy-insulated wiring to cut costs and "Go Green", but owners in rural areas are finding the local wildlife finds the wiring irresistible; thousands of dollars in damage has been done by rats and other critters eating wiring harnesses. Hackaday is asking their community to brainstorm solutions to this unique problem, as owners of affected vehicles have had to resort to sprinkling their driveway with coyote urine and putting rat traps on the wheels.
Hackaday reports that "It isn't just one or two cases either, it's enough of a problem that some car manufacturers are getting hit with class-action lawsuits." Back in 2010 Slashdot reported that rabbits had already discovered the joys of eating soy-insulated wires, and were turning the parking lot at the Denver International Airport into their own personal buffet.

There's even a web site called HowToPreventRatsFromEatingCarWires.com, which reports that Honda has already manufactured a special wire-wrapping tape that's infused with the active ingredient from chili peppers.

27 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. one word by geoskd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Honda has already manufactured a special wire-wrapping tape

    This is simple: Poison

    Just like pressure treated lumber, add arsenic to the insulation in relatively small quantities. Just enough to kill anything that eats this as a primary diet, but not enough to prevent biodegrading. Quickly enough critters will develop a strong distaste for the stuff.

    --
    I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    1. Re:one word by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Lovely. Chewed up wiring and dead, smelly animals in your car.

      What's not to like?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:one word by careysub · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most people would rather not have the wiring eaten at all, rather than finding it being used as a part of a multl-generation breeding experiment to develop a wild/feral population of wiring-averse rodents.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    3. Re:one word by freeze128 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Or worse, your wires are all chewed up, and the rodents have now built up an immunity to arsenic! Lets make the wires radioactive as well!

    4. Re:one word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Honda has already manufactured a special wire-wrapping tape

      This is simple: Poison

      Just like pressure treated lumber, add arsenic to the insulation in relatively small quantities. Just enough to kill anything that eats this as a primary diet, but not enough to prevent biodegrading. Quickly enough critters will develop a strong distaste for the stuff.

      A little nibbling on lumber will create essentially no damage or risk.

      A little nibbling on electrical wiring is another matter entirely.

      And one dead critter doesn't "teach" other critters. Otherwise, mouse traps would have been proven ineffective hundreds of years ago.

    5. Re:one word by amiga3D · · Score: 5, Informative

      We used twine laced with arsenic when I installed wiring in tech control facilities. They don't get immune to it.

    6. Re:one word by HiThere · · Score: 2

      Arsenic doesn't act that rapidly, and the dose needs to be low enough that it acts as a cumulative poison. So that's a bad suggestion, unless it's something that tastes foul enough to rodents that they already avoid it.

      Strychnine might work, but that has a bitter taste, and I'm not sure that rats can taste bitter. (If they could, I think they'd avoid warfarin.)

      Butyl mercaptan might work. You'd need to encapsulate it, but it might not only drive the rats away, but also give you a quick warning that something's been chewing on your wires. OTOH, I'm not sure how much volume you'd need.

      Probably the best answer is a thing cooked up by the CIA in the 1960's or 70's (if it works as reported in Life magazine). They're supposed to have come up with a variation of LSD that gives mice a guaranteed bad trip. They've even already tested it on a close relative of rats. (They also tested it on cats, the picture of a cat reeling back in terror from a mouse was quite unusual.) Since LSD works in extremely small quantities, this should be easy to blend into the wire, though again you'd want to encapsulate it, this time to stabilize the molecule.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  2. Put denatonium benzoate on the wires. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hehhehe.

  3. not just cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Its not just cars. I bought a battery charger/jump starter from Harbor Freight, which has much of its products made in China. After only one month, I went out to my tool shed to find it and, lo and behold, all the insulation on the wiring was stripped clean. I live in SE AZ, in the desert so we have lots of wild life, but it was done so fast, I figured it might be a whole family, but I set a trap using a coil of insulated wiring from Harbor Freight, and caught the lil fckr. He was fat a sassy, and over the next two days I found several power tools all stripped of insulation.

    However, I have had a '86 Honda civic sitting in the car port that the wiring was untouched. So its obvious a recent thing

    1. Re:not just cars by hey! · · Score: 2

      I've had bad luck with Harbor Freight, and I think it has to do with the Chinese model for selling stuff to the US.

      Chinese factories can turn out stuff that is as good as anything made anywhere, but if the middleman thinks he can get away with selling Americans junk they'll gladly supply him -- because he's their customer, not you. It'd be different if the manufacturers owned the brands under which they sell. Then their reputation would be on the line with every tool you bought. But it's not; they stamp whatever name the middleman is selling under.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  4. Not Just Rural Areas by careysub · · Score: 4, Informative

    I live in surburbia, and this happened to me. Rodents ate the wiring in my Honda Odyssey a few of years ago.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  5. Useless by nospam007 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Honda has already manufactured a special wire-wrapping tape that's infused with the active ingredient from chili peppers."

    Mexican rats love that stuff.

  6. Add something to make it taste bad. by kgroombr · · Score: 2

    Ethylene glycol poisoning used to be quite common until they used an additive to make it taste bad. Should be just as simple.

  7. The obvious answer isn't that great by JustNiz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Obvious answer is poison but thats not great for mechanics, and also not addressing the root cause. The real answer is to not use soy insulation in the first place.
    As someone who likes classic cars (i.e. that need to be around for a LONG time) I really don't like the whole thought that insulation should biodegrade after a few years anyway.

    1. Re:The obvious answer isn't that great by geoskd · · Score: 5, Funny

      Obvious answer is poison but thats not great for mechanics

      If your mechanic is eating the insulation off the wires in your car, I think you need to find a new mechanic.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    2. Re:The obvious answer isn't that great by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or at least pay him more.

      Poor guy, he's starving.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  8. Biodegradable wires? WTF? by BenJeremy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why on earth would anybody want wires with biodegradable insulation? That makes zero sense.

    Even without providing rodent buffets, cars will be shorting out in a few years due to the wire insulation BIODEGRADING. If these executives and engineers think it's such a great idea, let's see them use this wiring in their homes.

    Personally, I think wiring should have insulation that can last through a century or more, if possible.

    1. Re:Biodegradable wires? WTF? by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why on earth would anybody want wires with biodegradable insulation? That makes zero sense.

      Because things end up in landfills. Biodegradable doesn't mean in 5 years it will have rotted away. Biodegradable just means that it can be broken down naturally. Typical plastics can only be reduced in size to the point where they enter the food cycle. Bio-degradable plastics just mean they can be broken down by bacteria in certain conditions.

      That last sentence is key. Biodegradable plastics don't actually start to break down unless they are carefully composted in the right conditions.

      So to answer your question: Who wouldn't want biodegradable insulation. It makes zero sense not to use it for anything other than the sensor in your compost monitoring system.

    2. Re:Biodegradable wires? WTF? by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cars are some of the most heavily recycled things on this planet--they certainly don't end up in landfills under normal circumstances, and I'd generally expect any dumped in a landfill to have bonus corpses. The value of a dead car is not insignificant. A car sold to a scrap yard--which can net you a decent sum--will be broken down with the salvageable parts sold and the metal that's left is melted down for reuse. All of this is better for the environment than a new car made from 'virgin' materials--a good chunk of the nastiest parts of the ecological impact is from getting those raw materials.

      So you don't actually want biodegradable insulation on those wires anywhere near as much as you want insulation that will last a good ~25 years at minimum and burn off as cleanly as possible when it's time to recycle the metal in the wires.

    3. Re:Biodegradable wires? WTF? by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      Because things end up in landfills. Biodegradable doesn't mean in 5 years it will have rotted away. Biodegradable just means that it can be broken down naturally. Typical plastics can only be reduced in size to the point where they enter the food cycle. Bio-degradable plastics just mean they can be broken down by bacteria in certain conditions.

      Problem is...with cars? Everything is recycled out of them, I mean everything. Wiring harness, used brake shoes, engine+transaxle, for cars with clutches the entire engine and transaxle/transmission is sold in one piece. Hydraulic clutch plates, bulbs, plastic fasteners, rads, windshields/windows, tires, rims. even the engine oil, transmission fluid, and coolent has value. Every single part can be stripped down to the subframe and either sold at a scrap yard back into circulation, or by specialized companies that will strip it down right to the subframe and sell the parts out as refurbished. Here in North America, when we strip a car down the only thing that *isn't* recycled are vehicles that have mercury based ABS switches(from 2003 and earlier), those have to be sent for reclamation and disposal. The mercury itself is saved, and resold for use in new mercury switches(which are still in use) You can't sell them in most places either for a replacement, but there is a grey market.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  9. Re: Not new. by slazzy · · Score: 2

    Since the 1970s and before, it happened rats love to chew things but it was simply something to chew. Now they are something to eat, thus making the problem a significantly worse

    --
    Website Just Down For Me? Find out
  10. Rat King Dave Here - Happy to Help! by Rat+King+Dave · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hello! Thank you so much for featuring my website howtopreventratsfromeatingcarwires.com here! I am happy to help answer any questions anyone may have regarding this issue, especially if you are in the midst of a rodent attack! Thanks!

  11. They should have read the EULA. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Funny
    Honda and Toyota are on firm legal ground here. The manual very clearly states that by getting into the car you agree to the EULA, which you can read as soon as you get into the car and get the user manual.

    There is no warning "Beware of the Leopard" on the glove box, showing the good faith of Honda and Toyota.

    The EULA very clearly states that, " ... it is the responsibility of the user to prevent rodents from eating the wiring harness. Honda/Toyota recommend the use anti-rodent devices and the user must install and keep all such anti-malorganism devices up to date.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  12. File complaints with NHTSA by StandardCell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wire harnesses are a critical component to vehicle safety. Wires that can degrade during the normal service life of a vehicle can be deadly. Think about a wire harness with insulation that's been eaten that controls the ABS, fuel injection or an airflow sensor, and you hit a bump in the road and it shorts. Now you lose power or braking. Are we willing to have someone's vehicle fail and the people seriously hurt or dead because of a fundamental design flaw?

    I've worked on my own cars for years and seen some really stupid compromises and designs that make regular service difficult or results in failures just outside the warranty period. This, however, takes the cake, and we need to stand up to this by declaring the insulation issue a fundamental safety issue. I'm now thinking about mitigation strategies beyond my standard maintenance that neither I nor anyone else shouldn't have to think about, like underhood blinking lights, sprays, capsaicin tapes, etc..

    I would encourage anyone with one of these vehicles to file a NHTSA complaint stating that soy wire harnesses should be banned and recalls instituted to remedy the problem by either (a) replacing the harnesses with standard synthetic non-edible polymers as appropriate to the specific application, or (b) providing coatings that provably prevent rodents from consuming the insulation over the lifespan of the vehicle. We should also inform our congresscritters about this issue.

    NHTSA complaint form: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/... Congresscritters: https://www.house.gov/represen... and https://www.senate.gov/senator...

  13. arsenic is not bio-degradable by pereric · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Arsenic won't in itself biodegrade, it's a metal. It will spread in the environment. Probably not in dangerous doses just from wire insulation, but still no good idea. I would rather go with non-edible cables in the first place ...

  14. Teflon is dangerous, they say. by Grog6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is all about the length of time a car will last.

    The manufacturers don't want them to last, they want you to buy a new one every year.

    This way, the every time they get parked outside, they get eaten, a bit at a time. :)

    Cuts down on the impurities in the recycled copper, too.

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
  15. Soviet Field Mice Attack German Tanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Soviet Field Mice Attack German Tanks

    From 'Enemy At The Gates' by William Craig:

    "Finally the German High Command made a move to cover its (6th Army's) flanks. The 48th Panzer Corps, stationed more than 50 miles southwest of the ominous Russian bridgeheads at Kletskaya and Serafimovich on the Don, received priority orders to move up to the threatened sector.

    Led by Lt. Gen. Ferdinand Heim, a close friend and former aide to Paulus, the 48th clanked onto the roads and headed northeast. But only a few miles after starting out, the column ground to a halt when several tanks caught fire. In others, motors kept misfiring and finally refused to run at all. Harried mechanics swarmed over the machines and quickly found the answer. During the weeks of inactivity behind the lines, field mice had nested inside the vehicles and eaten away the insulation covering the electrical systems. Days behind schedule, the 48th Corps finally limped into its new quarters. It was almost totally crippled. Out of one hundred four tanks in the 22nd Panzer Division, only 42 were ready for combat."