NFL Players With Long and Short Careers Have Similar Death Risk, Study Finds (reuters.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: The study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association compared 2,933 athletes who played in the National Football League for an average of five years to 879 "replacement players" who filled in for three games during a mid-1980s strike, finding no statistically significant difference in rates of death from all causes. Critics said the research had several flaws and pointed to a study released last year that found 99 percent of deceased former NFL players whose brains were analyzed post-mortem showed signs of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a disease linked to repeated hits to the head that can lead to aggression and dementia. The latest study found that the leading cause of death among the NFL career players was cardiometabolic disease, which entails greater risk of heart attack and stroke, followed by transportation injuries and unintentional injuries.

"This new study seems to support other previous studies that have not shown an increase in mortality among NFL players when compared to similar cohorts," an NFL spokeswoman said. "As with all new research on this topic, we will look at it closely to see what we can learn to better enhance the well-being of our current and former players," the spokeswoman said.

Comments

It's time.

[Gravis Zero]

It's time we start ending school sponsored football programs. There are plenty of other sports that don't involve brain damage. I'm not saying outlaw it, just don't promote it at schools.

Re: It's time.

[Gravis Zero]

Sorry about the swirlies football players gave you, now give me your lunch money or it swirly time

Hey, no hard feelings about the swirlies. It wasn't anything a decade of therapy couldn't fix. Besides, now it's my fetish. ;)

Re: It's time.

[Anonymous Coward]

So you enjoy watching people kill themselves for your entertainment?

Re: It's time.

[Anonymous Coward]

I know it! And what with these seat belt laws anyways? Who do they think they are? And furthermore, I object to all this sex on the telly. I mean, I keep fallin' off.

Re: It's time.

[SeaFox]

So you enjoy watching people kill themselves for your entertainment?

I knew it was more than a coincidence that modern football stadiums have such a likeness to the Colosseum.

Re:It's time.

[nedlohs]

Why should a pension being treated differently from any other marital asset?

Re:It's time.

[rikkards]

And full contact hockey.

Re:It's time.

[argStyopa]

Or maybe let people make up their own minds instead of taking a nanny state approach?

My father played football, including division 1 collegiate, until he was knocked cold while tackling Jim McNamara. He woke up the next day in his dorm room, had trouble reading ever since (which we know now for sure was a result). At age 70, he suffered a massive paralyzing stroke which may very well have been a result of umpteen concussions.

I played football in high school and was being recruited for college play but was unable to continue due to significant injuries to my knees and back, as well as a dislocated shoulder, broken ankle, and 7 bones in my hands on one instance.

My oldest son played football in high school and college, having an injury free career until 2 concussions left him with some memory issues.

My sister asked us all the other day at dinner if we would play again, knowing what we would have to suffer. My answer was easy, as my injuries have only left me now a little pain & slow to get up it 50. Even I was surprised when both my father and son absolutely, immediately, said yes as well.

So maybe you don't choose for us, and let people make their now better informed choices by themselves ?

Re: It's time.

[rickb928]

"A motorcycle helmet only serves to increase your probability of surviving an accident. It does not reduce the hazard or risk to those around you."

My cousin., who yesterday passed away, spent more than 15 years being cared for in an institution because he was not wearing a helmet as he rode his motorcycle. The brain injury he suffered left he barely able to interact with others.

Should he have been compelled to wear a helmet by law? In hindsight, yes. But we do not enjoy the luxury of hindsight in all things, and for those riders I know who have never ever worn a helmet for over 50 years of riding, I have no retort save for 'it could happen to you'.

And some of them have executed legal documents intended to prevent resuscitation in the event of an injury that leaves them unable to survive without significant life support. Which solves nothing.

Seat belts are intended to restrain YOU, not to prevent you from becoming a missile and endangering others, but to minimize your injuries. Expanding the purpose beyond that is to claim a 1% solution is a driving factor. But head injuries in motorcycle accidents are virtually certain in the majority of instances. Not a good comparison.

Re:It's time.

[Shotgun]

When I was in high school, I noted that football was the only sport that had an ambulance on standby. I found that mind blowing, even at the time. They pretty much ASSUMED that within the next two hours someone was going to be injured badly enough to need an ambulance. How the HELL was this EVER supported by the school administration?

Re: It's time.

[rickb928]

I'm not arguing against seat belt laws, these are reasonable and prudent. Helmet laws are also, but there is a pervasive culture that resists them. The issues are virtually identical, but the cultures are very different, and the arguments are mostly emotional, and so legislation is perceived as a blunt instrument.

There are some other issues with similar situations, marijuana as a salient example. There is no clear 'solution', merely choices.

Re: It's time.

[AK Marc]

A seatbelt is proven to save lives. And, as a benefit to "the people", seatbelts are proven to reduce ER bills, including unpaid ER bills.

Helmets are not proven to save lives. They are strongly suspected to do so, but motorcycles are rare enough, compared to cars, that the numbers aren't there. And helmets are proven to increase hospital bills. People without helmets die quicker, and those with helmets rack up larger bills.

For every one of your cousin, there are 10 who lived your cousin's life because of a helmet.

Re: It's time.

[oh_my_080980980]

They have? Really Potsy. Even though the NFL for years had denied CTE and even covered it up?

Fuck off.

Re:It's time.

[Gravis Zero]

Or maybe let people make up their own minds instead of taking a nanny state approach?

I which universe does suggesting schools not promote something count as being a "nanny state approach"? The nanny state approach would be prohibiting young people from playing football. I'm simply suggesting that schools not promote it. People would still be able to put their kids into football leagues if they choose, just not ones supported by tax dollars.

Re:It's time.

[Hussman32]

So maybe you don't choose for us, and let people make their now better informed choices by themselves ?

I have two broken bones, one torn ACL, and a torn labrum from football (played from 4th grade to 9th grade). Luckily I wasn't a running back or receiver, so most of the headshots I took didn't lead to concussions. I stopped playing in high school because I got tired of visiting the doctor.

Here's the problem, we are better informed, but we are far from informed completely and there were deliberate efforts to suppress that knowledge. In addition, kids under 18 don't know the consequences, and many of the parents pushing them into football are living vicariously through their kids and the kids never know the risks until it's too late.

Let adults play if they wish, and even high school kids if they get appropriate unbiased information. However, having kids under 14 play tackle football, in retrospect, should not have been allowed..

Re:It's time.

[JD-1027]

$



Cat got your tongue? (something important seems to be missing from your comment ... like the body or the subject!)

Re: It's time.

[Paradise Pete]

People without helmets die quicker, and those with helmets rack up larger bills.

For me personally, the one time I ever needed it my helmet saved me both money and a lot of pain and facial scaring. I'm glad this wasn't my face.

Re:It's time.

[stephanruby]

A pension plan is a safety net for your twilight years. In the US, not everyone gets one. To my lay knowledge, a pension is the only asset that can not be lost during bankruptcy proceedings. Repeated brain injuries can lead to a serious disability later in life. In my opinion, the one who suffered those injuries while married is the one who should receive most of those payments.

And I would be saying the exact same thing if, for instance, an NFL player's wife was more prone to get early dementia than her husband. In such a case, whether due to genetics or to a serious car accident, I would allocate more of that pension to her if I thought that was the case.

But I suppose, it's also a question of fairness. Since those brain injuries are directly related to the NFL career and to the NFL pension. And the couple wouldn't be receiving that generous pension without the husband receiving those brain injuries in the first place, I think the allocation of the pension during a divorce would need a more reasoned approach (instead of a simple blind 50% split).

A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[Pinky's Brain]

They start their competitive career in inducing brain damage in high school.

Why would it kill you any sooner? Headaches aren't lethal and you don't need to be a genius to get old. It's about quality of life, not duration. Of course for NFL millionaires it might all be worth it, it's the much larger number of players who don't get drafted but are still forced to live with migraines and other fun consequences of concussions who are the real losers.

Re:A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[Aighearach]

And guys like these "replacement" players, who were obviously already playing frequently. It isn't like the brought in tennis players during the strike, they were all still football players putting enough time into it that they were aspiring pros! So even if the problem was early death rather than quality of life, this would still not really be very significant; just comparing players with fancy uniforms to players who only got to wear fancy uniforms a few times.

Re:A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[Kiuas]

They start their competitive career in inducing brain damage in high school.

Why would it kill you any sooner? Headaches aren't lethal and you

Erm... as someone who's had cerebral palsy since birth due to damage to the motor cortex caused during a premature birth I have some news for you: the consequences of brain damage are not limited to headaches and migraines.

It's about quality of life, not duration.

Exactly. And if you look at what chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which to my knowledge is the most common neurodegenerative condition for contact sport athletes with repeated head injury causes, you'll find a whole host of symptoms, quoting the wiki:

Symptoms of CTE, which occur in four stages, generally appear 8 to 10 years after an athlete experiences repetitive mild traumatic brain injury.

First-stage symptoms include attention deficit hyperactivity disorder as well as confusion, disorientation, dizziness, and headaches. Second-stage symptoms include memory loss, social instability, impulsive behavior, and poor judgment. Third and fourth stages include progressive dementia, movement disorders, hypomimia, speech impediments, sensory processing disorder, tremors, vertigo, deafness, depression and suicidality.

Additional symptoms include dysarthria, dysphagia, cognitive disorder such as amnesia, and ocular abnormalities, such as ptosis.

The condition manifests as dementia, or declining mental ability, problems with memory, dizzy spells or lack of balance to the point of not being able to walk under one's own power for a short time and/or Parkinsonism, or tremors and lack of coordination. It can also cause speech problems and an unsteady gait. Patients with DP may be prone to inappropriate or explosive behavior and may display pathological jealousy or paranoia

Now, I don't know about you, but to me these are all things which impact one's quality of life significantly and are far more serious than headaches.

Re: A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[Bert64]

The risks of competitive sports are well understood, and players at the highest levels tend to be extremely well paid. Noone is forced to play sports, they knew the risks and made a choice.

Re: A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[Anonymous Coward]

That's incorrect, at least in regard to CTE.

Yes, it's been common knowledge for a long time that football has a lot of violent collisions that can cause serious injury. That's why so much safety equipment is worn, to mitigate those injuries. This is obvious.

However, for a long time, the concern over head injuries was mostly in regard to concussions. Helmets are one way of trying to mitigate concussions. More recently, rules have been added to limit hits to the head of a defenseless player (targeting in college football) and to require that players who may have concussions to be examined immediately (the NFL's concussion protocol). One issue is that teams don't always actually follow the NFL's concussion protocol, especially if losing the player to injury significantly reduces their chances of winning the game. And the focus has largely been on concussions, the dangers of which has been known for a long time.

The dangers of CTE, however, have not been widely known. Furthermore, the NFL has attempted to discredit and suppress studies that link football to CTE. Only within the past decade or so have doctors become aware of just how widespread CTE is in football and hockey players. That's because doctors have started examining the brains of deceased players, which hadn't been done to this degree previously. Unlikely concussions, which are the result of a single violent blow to the head, CTE is the cumulative effect of collisions, most of all of which may not cause concussions. It hasn't been widely known that less violent hits have a cumulative effect that causes permanent damage.

While it's long been known that former NFL players often have cognitive difficulty, this was generally assumed to be the result of concussions. Therefore, player safety has been focused on reducing the violent hits that are most likely to cause concussions. It wasn't widely known that players were suffering from CTE due to the cumulative effects of less violent hits that didn't cause concussions.

So, no, the players weren't actually aware of the dangers of CTE and it's causes. This is relatively recent, and the NFL has attempted to deny and cover up many of the studies that link football to CTE. I've compared the NFL to tobacco companies in a few other posts for exactly that reason.

Sorry, but your post is incorrect, at least in regard to CTE.

Re:A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[Whorhay]

Kids where I grew up started in Middle School. And where I live now they've got PeeWee teams all over the place. I imagine the intensity is lower at these levels but the risk of head injuries is still there.

Re:A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[Shotgun]

They start their competitive career in inducing brain damage in KINDERGARTEN.

FTFY.

Reference top of page 15. TINY MITE: 7 years and under.

Re:A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[iMadeGhostzilla]

Perhaps those with longer careers make more money and use it to offset the harm created by longer playing, longevity-wise.

It's not for us to judge though. I'm sure there are NFL players with great careers who suffered greatly after they stopped playing and still think every second of it was worth it. And there are others who regret they ever stepped on the field. It is for each person to make the call.

Re:A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[Aighearach]

You're the one offering that sort of judgement, instead of saying it isn't for you to judge and then judging, why not just not say either?

If we were talking about the death rates after jumping off buildings, it would also be about the death rate and not about any judgment of it. If you don't value their life, why not keep it to yourself?

Re:A football career doesn't start in the NFL

[iMadeGhostzilla]

Judgement is whether something is right or wrong, it's prescriptive, what you should do. My observation about money to offset the harm, if true, is merely descriptive, what happens. There is no right or wrong attached to it.

What I'm saying is it is not for us to say whether playing a rough sport is right or wrong. I would prefer people to be alive and healthy and safe, but I also want them to find thrill and sense of purpose in life, rather than being safe and depressed. Those two goals are sometimes mutually exclusive.

I believe we should let all our observations known, and then let the adult players decide for themselves.

The two studies are orthogonal to each other

[SlaveToTheGrind]

One says lifespan is the same. The other says quality of life suffers. These are not mutually exclusive.

The league is perhaps being a bit deliberately obtuse given that they're sitting on a potential liability powder keg.

Re:The two studies are orthogonal to each other

[stephanruby]

In other words, if you're an NFL athlete.

The bad news: Your relatives, the younger ungrateful ones that have been mooching from you for your entire career, will be the only ones left to take care of you until you're 80 or 90 years old.

The good news: You'll have early Alzheimers and you won't remember a thing anyway.

Football will be gone in 10-20 years

[PopeRatzo]

The CTEs don't kill you (unless you count the suicides), but they will turn you into a drooling wreck like Jim McMahon.

The main thing that's been keeping the NFL afloat is gambling, and thanks to the much higher incidence of injury, the gamblers are finally starting to abandon it for more interesting games, like basketball, baseball, hockey. As a veteran fantasy football player, I can tell you that practically all of the skill has been taken out of it, making it much less fun. This year, I lost my stud, #1pick running back, David Johnson very early in the season, and I only made the playoffs because the other good players also lost their best picks as the season wore on.

And football continues to be a game of exploitation. Parents are putting their kids in football programs in the same numbers any more (except in the South, where brain damage is less noticeable) and I expect football to go the way of boxing. Another fine sport that just got to be too depressing to enjoy.

Re:Football will be gone in 10-20 years

[sjames]

I remember a Braves game where the Twins were so taken by surprise at a suicide squeeze they asked the ump if it was legal.

The local news tonight seemed more excited about the puppy bowl.

Re:Football will be gone in 10-20 years

[Aighearach]

You managed the Ugga Wugga just fine, but it doesn't sound like you've ever actually watched a complete baseball game.

Before you defend yourself, if you have actually seen it and didn't figure out that any strategy is happening, that says something even worse about you than if you're just a blowhard who is guessing.

Re:Football will be gone in 10-20 years

[DNS-and-BIND]

Wow, that was a really nasty slur to use against the part of America where all the black people live.

Re:Football will be gone in 10-20 years

[quantaman]

The CTEs don't kill you (unless you count the suicides), but they will turn you into a drooling wreck like Jim McMahon.

CTE leads to dementia, and that will shorten your life expectancy.

There seems to be two main criticisms of this study. First they're talking about players from the mid-80s, so even if they were 30 at the time they'd still be early-to-mid 60s, more likely they're late 50s. That's earlier than you'd expect CTE to really start shortening life expectancy (plus you might not have enough deaths to detect a smaller difference).

Second, they're comparing people who played football at a very high level to people who played football at a slightly higher level. If one group has CTE issues I'd expect both to.

The main thing that's been keeping the NFL afloat is gambling, and thanks to the much higher incidence of injury, the gamblers are finally starting to abandon it for more interesting games, like basketball, baseball, hockey. As a veteran fantasy football player, I can tell you that practically all of the skill has been taken out of it, making it much less fun. This year, I lost my stud, #1pick running back, David Johnson very early in the season, and I only made the playoffs because the other good players also lost their best picks as the season wore on.

And football continues to be a game of exploitation. Parents are putting their kids in football programs in the same numbers any more (except in the South, where brain damage is less noticeable) and I expect football to go the way of boxing. Another fine sport that just got to be too depressing to enjoy.

The attraction isn't gambling it's culture. Especially in the US South it's extremely ingrained into communities and football does have a number of fairly unusual characteristics among sports:
1) Virtually every male body type is well suited towards a position on the football field.
2) It has large rosters so significant portions of high school populations can participate.
3) It creates a very strict social hierarchy.
4) It has a much higher level of planning and organization than other sports

However, the large rosters are also its weakness, I expect CTE worries to drop a lot of schools below the critical mass of kids needed, and a lot of regions are going to lose high school football. And the kids who didn't play football will become adults who don't watch it, and football will become a regional sport in the south.

Re:Football will be gone in 10-20 years

[PopeRatzo]

the part of America where all the black people live

Have you ever been to the US?

Re:Football will be gone in 10-20 years

[Whorhay]

I know a lot of people who stopped watching NFL games because of the kneeling, as a result I don't think I've heard a single conversation about the Super Bowl at work this year. While I support the protesting players philosophically, I'm pretty happy to not have to hear about football all day at work. I read mostly news sites that my co-workers would consider left leaning and I can only recall a single article which was actually about the commercials instead of the game. The game plan for both teams though is entirely predictable, score more points than the other team by a combination of preventing the other team from scoring and successfully scoring yourself.

Everyone thinks their sport or hobby is complex, and I suppose to some degree they're right. I just can't find the energy to give a crap about any of them. Sure baseball is boring as hell, so is football, and soccer. Although I'm not sure any of them can compare to NASCAR, a "race" that lasts for hours and hours and is just cars going in circles endlessly. At the fan level it all looks like Tribalism for the sake of Tribalism to me, and at the owner level it's all about extorting as much money as possible out of the fans sense of tribalism and their politicians in the form of subsidies.

Soccer, too.

[Ungrounded Lightning]

It's time we start ending school sponsored football programs. There are plenty of other sports that don't involve brain damage.

Soccer, too. That involves hitting the ball with your head, hard, repeatedly, and was shown to be causing brain damage even before (pigskin-style) football.

Re:Soccer, too.

[Gravis Zero]

It's time we start ending school sponsored football programs. There are plenty of other sports that don't involve brain damage.

Soccer, too. That involves hitting the ball with your head, hard, repeatedly, and was shown to be causing brain damage even before (pigskin-style) football.

Soccer has an easy fix, just prohibit hitting the ball with your head.

Re:Soccer, too.

[stephanruby]

Or for soccer, just change the rules if that's the case.

Re:Soccer, too.

[AmiMoJo]

Various professional football (soccer) bodies are looking at banning heading the ball for this reason. A lot of trainers don't allow younger players to do it already.

Re:Soccer, too.

[Mal-2]

It doesn't help that in a set piece such as a corner, it's not one player going up for the ball, it's four or five, and all of them are tracking the ball, not each other. Head-to-head collisions are the result.

Re:Soccer, too.

[TechyImmigrant]

Various professional football (soccer) bodies are looking at banning heading the ball for this reason. A lot of trainers don't allow younger players to do it already.

Football is for feet!

Re:Soccer, too.

[Hussman32]

I saw a Real Sports story about the concussion dangers of soccer, and the concussions don't come from heads hitting the balls, they come from heads hitting other heads and the poles of the goal. Same game event, different cause.

Who the fuck CARES!

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this news for nerds...

Re:I don't give a fuck about sportsball players

[Immerman]

Mostly because athletes get glorified in our society, encouraging mimicry by impressionable youth and idiots, while their celebrity insulates them from the consequences of their actions. That hits on two fronts.

First, you get a bunch of kids too young and stupid to know better inflicting brain damage for the chance at home-town celebrity and the perks that accompany it. And oft-times their parents aren't a whole lot better informed.

Second, that brain damage makes it much more likely that Joe McSportsball player is going to violently beat his girlfriend or that guy who looked at him funny at the bar, while his celebrity will get him off with a slap on the wrist and a lot of publicity. That sends a message to people everywhere that such violence is actually acceptable behavior.

Yeah right

[ArchieBunker]

Billions of dollars are at stake with the NFL. You think that is just going to evaporate?

Re:Yeah right

[Gravis Zero]

It wouldn't be the first time that billions of dollars went up in smoke overnight.

Re:Yeah right

[PopeRatzo]

Billions of dollars are at stake with the NFL. You think that is just going to evaporate?

Boxing was the biggest sport in the world at one time. At all levels from CYO to Golden Gloves to amateur to pros. At all weight classes. In our lifetime. Now they struggle to find enough boxers to fill a card, and it's just a footnote. Yes, it can all evaporate. Pop Warner and high school programs are already hurting in most of the US because kids don't want to play football or their parents won't let them. Maybe it will become a regional sport, like NASCAR, but the end is just over the horizon for football as a national sport.

I love football, but it's on its way out. I don't think there is a way to save it.

Re: Yeah right

[PopeRatzo]

I think hockey without hitting will appeal to a lot of fans who enjoy a game that will require finesse and skill.

Correct. As a former Chicagoan, I went to a lot of Blackhawks games. Early in the Toews/Kane era, you could already see that they were transitioning away from needing an enforcer. Yes, they had Dustin Byfuglien for a while but when he left they didn't replace him. They certainly didn't have a designated thug the way teams like Boston had with Lucic. It was just fast skating, precise and flashy puck-handling and a lot of scoring. No need to drop the gloves when you're blasting past opponents like they were standing in sand.

Re:Yeah right

[dyslexicbunny]

My observation is that players have been getting bigger and bigger (at least in some positions) since I was a kid. How much do you think weight limits on players would impact things? Or suppose we removed all the shoulder pads so players wouldn't hit as hard?

Re:Yeah right

[PopeRatzo]

Bigger and faster. You've got guys over 300 lbs in the NFL who can run a 40-yard dash in 4.8 seconds. Jadeveon Clowney goes about 270 lbs and can run it in 4.5. Someone like that hits you at speed and something's gotta give. It's just physics.

Re: Yeah right

[apoc.famine]

I watched the NHL all-star game this year, and it was 3 on 3 with no hits. I have to say, it was damn entertaining. The passes and shots you can take when you're not getting slammed around are works of art.

Full-speed, behind the back pass, hidden by the fake slapshot that came after it. Charging the net, lifting the stick, curling left to fake a shot in the top corner, all while the puck just slides through the 5-hole.

There were some truly stunning plays in that game. Sure, it helps that they are all-stars, but the ability to make shots was a major component. It's not the same game, but it was damn fun to watch. The question is if sports can drop some of the physical violence and improve other aspects enough to keep or improve the entertainment. I'm not sure that soccer could ban headers or the NFL could limit hits and still keep the same interest level. I know I don't go out of my way to watch flag football.

Re:Yeah right

[dyslexicbunny]

I didn't even think about speed improvements. I suppose you could regulate player weights (overall or per position) but you'd be unable to do anything about speed and that's going to be the bigger hitter. Well short of playing in knee deep water....

Wonder if reduced padding might also help to mitigate some of the intensity of the hits.

Re: PROOF of Important Black Contributions

[Anonymous Coward]

No, this is not a racial issue.

However, you're accidentally correct that helmets may contribute to the problems. Players are more willing to engage in violent collisions because they're wearing helmets. Therefore, that can lead to more collisions and harder collisions, and greater injury of players. The helmets may, indeed, be part of the problem, but not at all for the reasons you suggested.

So?

[Kohath]

NFL players don’t spend their time worrying about your problems. And if they did, wouldn’t you tell them to mind their own business?

Re:So?

[Kohath]

There are no high school kids in the NFL. Stop using “think of the children” as an excuse to mind everyone else’s business but your own.

"Replacement players" don't practice?

[whoever57]

compared 2,933 athletes who played in the National Football League for an average of five years to 879 "replacement players" who filled in for three games during a mid-1980s strike

These replacement players would have been playing and practising when not playing in the NFL. They probably received a similar number of head impacts. Why would anyone expect a different mortality rate?

It's not the NFL that's dangerous: it's the sport.

The NFL are scum: I recently heard an NFL doctor claim that head impacts are just as common in other sports such as soccer. Outright lying because they know that they are promoting a sport that is going to destroy the quality of life for many of its participants.

Note that recent research shows that concussions are not required for CTE. Lower-level head impacts over a long period will cause CTE.

Re:"Replacement players" don't practice?

[Aighearach]

It is the sport, but also, soccer is really bad too. Add hockey, and it is probably the only three popular modern sports that include lots of head injury.

Re:"Replacement players" don't practice?

[rikkards]

The three are the worst sports not because of the head injuries but because of the fact that kids are indoctrinated so early. Even though contact is not condoned early on (well less so in Hockey and Soccer than Football) accidents happen and when you include the fact these are maturing brains involved the injuries are even more concerning

Re:"Replacement players" don't practice?

[Attila Dimedici]

Well, head impacts ARE just as common in soccer, if not more so. Unlike soccer, in football it is now against the rules to intentionally have a head impact (either. In soccer, head impact (heading the ball) is actually one of the strategies which is practiced

Re:I don't give a fuck about sportsball players

[sjames]

In part because the league spent years denying the damage and covering up the evidence. They made a choice, but it wasn't an informed choice.

So it's not exclusively playing in the NFL?

[adfraggs]

But clearly these were all still players with long football careers, certainly having played from high school through to going pro, so still likely to have similar issues due to many years of head smashing activity. This hardly redeems the NFL of responsibility, it just means that for the problems to occur doesn't require playing at the highest level.

How Much Death Risk Is That?

[Greyfox]

I'm guessing 100%, just like everyone else?

Re:How Much Death Risk Is That?

[apoc.famine]

I don't know if I trust your extrapolation. We only have data on something like 13 out of every 14 people who have ever lived. That's a long way from 100%.

While you didn't include any decimals, you're betting that there's less than a one in 7.5 billion chance that someone's genetically immortal. Seems like a risky gamble to me. Have you ever counted 7.5 billion of anything? It turns out that it's rather a lot.

Re:How Much Death Risk Is That?

[Greyfox]

I'm guessing they find out in the next couple decades that the telomere is in place as a biological defense against cancer. So assuming you don't have one of those (like those jellyfish, or the naked mole rat,) AND you don't just eventually melt into a cancerous puddle, that's not going to keep you from getting hit by a bus or falling off a ladder or any of a billion other things that eventually kill so many of us before we die of old age. It probably also doesn't protect us from any of the really nasty diseases we can get while aging. Statistically, eventually something's going to get you even if you don't age. The system is very much designed to kill us. Evolution is looking for an answer, and we're not it.

Some billionaires are looking into having their heads or entire bodies frozen to try to survive until we can cure them, but that's really not much further along than building a pyramid for a dead king. Probably less so when you consider that a couple thousand years from now we'll still remember that dead king's name. I don't think the billionaires of today will be as well remembered.

Replacement players?

[Bert64]

Did those replacement players only ever play 3 games, or did they only play 3 games at professional level?
Chances are those "replacement players" were just second rate players who weren't quite good enough to play for the major teams, but still played regularly as amateurs or for lower tier teams.

Re:Replacement players?

[DrStrangluv]

Back then there wasn't as much opportunity from organizations like Arena Football or the Canadian Football League. Those organizations existed, but with lower numbers of teams and roster sizes, and there were fewer private club leagues. Most of the replacements were recent NFL cuts (and this group was counted as a regular NFL player vs simple replacement player) or had played in college, but otherwise were not directly involved with football.

Re:Replacement players?

[Radical Moderate]

Guaranteed they played 4 years of college plus high school and probably younger, so yeah, they had plenty of opportunities to get their bells rung.

Re: Fuck You Kneelers

[Nidi62]

In football, as with many other sports, both teams will often kneel if a player is injured. Especially so if it is a major injury. Religions around the world have you kneel to pray, and people have been kneeling before royalty for centuries. Kneeling shows respect and a measure of subservience or devotion to the target of your kneeling. So why should it be "disrepectful" to kneel for the national anthem? If anythung, that should be more respectful than standing for it.

Re:5 minutes of rest between 15 seconds play

[Travelsonic]

Eh, I personally like rugby better because of the continuous action - ball changes possession, or one team scores, the game goes on until the period is up - none of this stopping or starting bullshit, plus it just feels easier to understand because it feels like it is one game tat was kept simpler. Easier to understand, for me, how the ball can or can't travel, how things like lineouts and rucks work is straight forward, and it feels like a game where everybody has to be deeply involved, and coordinated to succeed. (nothing against fans of American football of course, just personal preference). (and that's without mentioning things like the form used in the rugby tackle, vs what is commonly seen in American footbal, and how that has the potential to not outright eliminate the risk of injury by any means, but can seriously reduce the risk.

Re:Fuck You Kneelers

[Anonymous Coward]

Free speech = unAmerican.

America is officially dead.

RIP

numbnuts

Actions by employees are not protected by free speech.

Imagine what happens to a checkout cashier at a supermarket who starts making political statements that anger about half the supermarket's customers.

Re: 5 minutes of rest between 15 seconds play

[Travelsonic]

Hey dude, we go on and off the pitch without any padding at all, rain, sleet, or shine. "fag rugby fan" indeed.

Re: Fuck You Kneelers

[NicknameUnavailable]

A) They were kneeling in protest of the national anthem. B) Americans are subservient to nothing, thus it is treasonous to kneel.

Re: Fuck You Kneelers

[Nidi62]

"One nation, under god"? Besides, the flag/national anthem represents the nation (not the military) so bowing before them shows reverence for the country.

Re: Fuck You Kneelers

[Nidi62]

A) They were kneeling in protest of the national anthem.

And no, they weren't. They specifically said they choose to kneel rather than sit during the anthem out of respect for the anthem. They are protesting the fact that they believe the ideals of the anthem are no longer extended towards their community, especially police brutality. And with the militarization and adversarial nature of police these days, who can blame them? Hell, even white Australian female tourists are being shot by police now!

Re: Fuck You Kneelers

[NicknameUnavailable]

They expressly declared they were kneeling to protest America and refuse to recognize the flag. This is some marvelous attempt to shift the goal post you've made though.

Re: Fuck You Kneelers

[Nidi62]

They expressly declared they were kneeling to protest America and refuse to recognize the flag. This is some marvelous attempt to shift the goal post you've made though.

You've drunk too much of the kool-aid. And don't forget, Trump's hated the NFL ever since the USFL days (when a decision he made pretty much forced the league out of business)

Re: Fuck You Kneelers

[NicknameUnavailable]

You've drunk too much of the kool-aid. And don't forget, Trump's hated the NFL ever since the USFL days (when a decision he made pretty much forced the league out of business)

As a nerd, I've hated football since I first learned of its existence. You know how I know you don't belong here?

Rugby

[Travelsonic]

Eh, I personally like rugby better because of the continuous action - ball changes possession, or one team scores, the game goes on until the period is up - none of this stopping or starting bullshit, plus it just feels easier to understand because it feels like it is one game tat was kept simpler.

None of the complications of downs, and all those extraneous rules that I just have difficulty following.Easier to understand, for me, how the ball can or can't travel, how things like lineouts and rucks work is straight forward, and it feels like a game where everybody has to be deeply involved, and coordinated to succeed. (nothing against fans of American football of course, just personal preference). (and that's without mentioning things like the form used in the rugby tackle, vs what is commonly seen in American footbal, and how that has the potential to not outright eliminate the risk of injury by any means, but can seriously reduce the risk.