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'Modern AI is Good at a Few Things But Bad at Everything Else' (wired.com)

Jason Pontin, writing for Wired: Sundar Pichai, the chief executive of Google, has said that AI "is more profound than ... electricity or fire." Andrew Ng, who founded Google Brain and now invests in AI startups, wrote that "If a typical person can do a mental task with less than one second of thought, we can probably automate it using AI either now or in the near future." Their enthusiasm is pardonable.

[...] But there are many things that people can do quickly that smart machines cannot. Natural language is beyond deep learning; new situations baffle artificial intelligences, like cows brought up short at a cattle grid. None of these shortcomings is likely to be solved soon. Once you've seen you've seen it, you can't un-see it: deep learning, now the dominant technique in artificial intelligence, will not lead to an AI that abstractly reasons and generalizes about the world. By itself, it is unlikely to automate ordinary human activities.

To see why modern AI is good at a few things but bad at everything else, it helps to understand how deep learning works. Deep learning is math: a statistical method where computers learn to classify patterns using neural networks. [...] Deep learning's advances are the product of pattern recognition: neural networks memorize classes of things and more-or-less reliably know when they encounter them again. But almost all the interesting problems in cognition aren't classification problems at all.

128 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. I wonder how long it will be.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...before a bunch of angry old coots post telling us that none of this is AI.

    1. Re:I wonder how long it will be.... by bmimatt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not long. One more time - this is not AI, it's machine learning (ML) at its infancy.

    2. Re:I wonder how long it will be.... by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Millenials think everything is AI, because they have no idea how technology really works. They are consumers, not producers. So anything that mimics intelligence is like magic to them. Meanwhile the smart people know that chess playing (or Go playing) computers are not AI, just clever programs.

    3. Re:I wonder how long it will be.... by Megol · · Score: 1

      It isn't puzzling - it's obvious.

      1) Why was chess considered something obviously needing _intelligence_?
      2) Why isn't playing chess a display of intelligence of computers?

      Answers:
      1) Because the possible positions were far to large to be stored in a computer at the time (and also now - but not relevant here). And as computers couldn't store all possible combinations a human obviously couldn't - hence the human showed intelligence and to beat the human the computer must be smarter than the human.
      2) Because the algorithms developed to play chess at an advanced level is basically pattern matching combined with huge memory (which humans doesn't have) combined with algorithms developed by humans (no intelligence from the computer) plus a lot of computation (which humans can't do).

      So why is the "redefinition" of what AI is so strange? It's called learning - learning that what we thought was a obvious demonstration of intelligence isn't.
      The majority of chess engines are still using algorithms manually tweaked by humans to perform the steps outlined before. So _humans_ display intelligence doing what was previously thought impossible by analyzing the problem and spending a lot of extra data and computational power - not the computer.

      Now defining exactly what intelligence (and IMO more importantly creativity) is... It's hard, very hard.
      But that we as intelligent beings see, analyze and conclude that previous ideas were ill-founded _is_ a demonstration of intelligence in its own right.

    4. Re:I wonder how long it will be.... by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      What we have now isn't even remotely close to anything even remotely close to resembling intelligence. We have fast, efficient number crunching. Nothing more.

      What we are witnessing at this moment is the invention of the wheel claiming to be interstellar travel. It hasn't even risen to the depths of being laughable.

      Unfortunately for a lot of people, their jobs require little more than number crunching.

    5. Re:I wonder how long it will be.... by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      That's silly. If you want to discuss some concept like consciously creative software, come up with a term that describes whatever you're trying to do. If you want to discuss the nature and origins of intelligence, go hang out in the philosophy department.

      Everyone else who works in AI, and of course the general public who still understands that Deep Blue is AI and the computer opponent in Starcraft is AI, will keep using the same terms that have been used for more than half a century.

  2. Obviously by houghi · · Score: 1

    Nothing can be good at everything. That is why there are differnt things. Even something as basic as a hammer has multiple versions. Even if you go and look at just nailing, there are several types that are good for one, but bad for another.

    Ut zould be news if it where NOT thee case. This "news" is "dog bites man" please come back when it is "man bites dog".

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:Obviously by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Well there has been so much news about AI about doing things better and cheaper then a person could do. It is important to show that it isn't a human replacement, just a human supplement.

      It is a case of too many "Man bites dog " news, and we have forgotten that the Dog normally bites the man.

      It is important that the public is properly informed on the news. We do not want business owners to rush the gun, fire all the employees and install an AI system that cannot get the job done, causing harm to both the employees and the company. Nor do we want the the technology with so much ability and promise to be ignored, causing the company to be not be competitive and having to layoff all the employees because it went out of business.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Obviously by careysub · · Score: 1

      Well there has been so much news about AI about doing things better and cheaper then a person could do. It is important to show that it isn't a human replacement, just a human supplement.

      It is both. Kind of like how the factory system supplemented humans, it made the human operators much more efficient than they could have been at manual craft manufacture. But many fewer of these supplemented humans were required.

      The "few" things that AI (actually machine learning) is good at happens to cover a lot of work that humans are now earning salaries to do.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    3. Re: Obviously by saloomy · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter. What do you think will happen when AI moves into a field? Perfect example: Trucking. What do you think will happen to the volume of goods that travel down roadways when AI gets involved and transporting goods becomes significantly cheaper? The volume will go up, and so will societies utility from it. This is good for society, we want goods and services to consume, work is not something we want, it's something we have to do to have the goods and services we want. This will no longer the case.

    4. Re:Obviously by tsqr · · Score: 2

      This "news" is "dog bites man" please come back when it is "man bites dog".

      Well, OK then.

    5. Re:Obviously by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The biggest problem is most companies are so focused on cutting costs, they are not focusing on bringing in customers.

      Efficiencies + Proper leadership doesn't mean lowering your workforce, but moving your workforce into a more productive state, that allows for proper growth.

      Lets say the Machine Learning system, is handling the billing, it can do it faster and more accurate then a person can. The person who use to have to handle all the billing, can not be in a position where they are not bogged down by paperwork, but can communicate with the customer base, to help them get their bills in faster and work out any other issues. Where before such job would had been rushed, and often with less tact because this person was bogged down with thousands of invoices to review.

      This makes the company far easier for the customer to work with, and continue their business. I see AI opening the door for a Kindness economy where for good or for ill, our jobs being less stressful on the minutia we can focus more on the bigger picture problems, and dealing with the people on a more personal level, allowing for better services, and product quality.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:Obviously by Junta · · Score: 1

      Counter acting hype is valuable.

      I recall an article a while back proclaiming that programmer jobs would go away because AI 'is here'. Written obviously by people who have no understanding of the current things being labeled 'AI'.

      It's obvious to those deeply engaged in the technology, but it is not at all obvious to the wider public, which includes a lot of decision makers who can create big problems if they just have the marketed hype to go on.

      The key is a balance, describing things that it can do well on (taking image data and extrapolating discrete actionable components, measuring how 'close' one item in one picture is to another, etc) but without making people think it can do other things (engage in a conversation, have any inkling of how to deal with a situation not contained in training, etc).

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    7. Re: Obviously by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      But that "earning salaries" thing is all important. It does not matter how cheap goods get, if you have no income to buy them with.

      This is a major problem for our society, which regards not being employed as a sign of personal failure, from which you should suffer.

      Having millions suffer from devastated livelihoods for the "good of society" is a huge problem.

      So it matters an enormous amount.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    8. Re: Obviously by simplu · · Score: 1

      People will always earn salaries somehow. If not, there is no reason for AI trucks to carry goods and no reason for AI factories to produce them. Or maybe Skynet will buy them all for its own pleasure.

      --
      L.
    9. Re: Obviously by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Several mistakes:
      a) a self driving car is not an AI, nor does it use AI, it uses several so called "cognitive systems"
      b) shipping is so absurdly cheap, the cost is not relevant for anything
      c) just because shipping might become cheaper, it does not increase the amount of shipped goods. To increase the amount of shipped goods you either need to make people "ship something", or make customers buy more.

      Considering that above a certain price most shops offer "free shipping", customers wont be affected by a) or b) and shops wont lower prices just because shipping become more cheap.

      Simple example: above $100 shipment is free. Shipping costs $5. The $5 are included in the $100. Drop shipping costs to 5 cents, now you "could" lower the price to $95.05. But now the question comes: do you offer free shipping from $95 on? Because that would share the savings with your customer. Or in other words: keeps your profit constant. Or do you still offer free shipping from above $100? So you keep the profit of cheaper shipping?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  3. Hype and Fear by DrTJ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    AI getting into the trough (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle) again (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter)?

    Prominent people seem to fear AI (http://time.com/3614349/artificial-intelligence-singularity-stephen-hawking-elon-musk/), but isn't this just Fear of the Unknown? I mean, Elon and Stephen are really smart people, but do they know that most NN:s come down to linear algegra and spiced with non-linearities in the end, just simulating neurons? I mean neurons are common-place on the planet already, equipped with malice and stuff...

    1. Re:Hype and Fear by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A "real" AI would be the ultimate psychopath: Intelligence without any kind of conscience. Pretty much like a corporation, just way more efficient.

      Fortunately what we're building is far from anything resembling intelligence. I.e. the ability to use prior experience in totally new situations, evaluate those situations and draw conclusions that can be applied to react properly to it. And I mean totally new.

      The point here is that it's not possible (yet, maybe forever) to create an AI that can make such abstractions and apply old knowledge to new situations.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Hype and Fear by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      http://chicagoist.com/2014/09/... When a computer can figure out what this is, then we will have true strong AI. Its a perspective never seen in the movie, so feeding it every frame wouldn't help. A computer would have to 'think laterally' to come up with the correct answer.

      --
      Good-bye
    3. Re:Hype and Fear by morethanapapercert · · Score: 1
      To me, AI means that the system is conscious, self aware. The only intelligence(s) we know of also possess that quality, so it is not a stretch to assume a) In order to build an AI, we'd have to understand our own intelligence far better and b) That any system we build based on our understanding of ourselves is going to resemble us a great deal.

      Right now, as far as I understand the field, we are building intelligences on par with a cockroach or small lizard. If we are to duplicate the intelligence and consciousness we have, the next step would be to overlay that reptilian intelligence with a limbic system analogue to create intelligences on par with mammals.

      Once that is done, then we can work on the equivalent of the cerebrum.

      If we do succeed in building an intelligence in our own image, our understanding of intelligence will be advanced enough to build rules of behaviour into the very fabric of the system. This is where Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics comes in to play. Obviously far too simplified compared to what will actually go into the design of an AI system, but a very useful starting point. The Good Doctor wrote a few stories where adherence to the laws of robotics produced unexpected results. Our own development of AI will require rule building that is so sophisticated that it's bone simple. We need to avoid the Monkey's Paw problem, where setting up rules and requirements doesn't create worse problems.

      --
      I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
    4. Re:Hype and Fear by quantaman · · Score: 2

      AI getting into the trough (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle) again (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter)?

      Prominent people seem to fear AI (http://time.com/3614349/artificial-intelligence-singularity-stephen-hawking-elon-musk/), but isn't this just Fear of the Unknown? I mean, Elon and Stephen are really smart people, but do they know that most NN:s come down to linear algegra and spiced with non-linearities in the end, just simulating neurons? I mean neurons are common-place on the planet already, equipped with malice and stuff...

      Smart outsiders overestimate the risks because they don't really understand the limitations of current AI tech and don't realize how far away hard AI actually is.

      Smart insiders underestimate the risks because they see the field in terms of incremental advancements of the current state-of-the-art. They're overly skeptical of the possibility of hard AI and when they do think about it they rely on their expertise and tend to assume it has the same limitations as current AI tech.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    5. Re:Hype and Fear by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

      The real fear of what they're calling 'AI' these days is that people will believe all the marketing and media hype, and trust it too much, inviting disaster. Much like with so-called 'self driving cars'.

    6. Re:Hype and Fear by NettiWelho · · Score: 2

      [..] Prominent people seem to fear AI (http://time.com/3614349/artificial-intelligence-singularity-stephen-hawking-elon-musk/),

      but isn't this just Fear of the Unknown? [..]

      Absolutely not, the machines wont rise up in rebellion but instead be good little germans when the owners instruct them to clear the streets of rioting, now unemployed, starving serfs by any means necessary

      Billions would die *BECAUSE* the machines didn't rebel against orders to commit wholesale genocide

    7. Re:Hype and Fear by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      A "real" AI

      No true scotsman

      the ultimate psychopath: Intelligence without any kind of conscience.

      Nobody calls a hammer a psychopath, it's just a tool. But you're exactly right, it'll be like corporations. Most of which are given the marching orders "Whatever make money". And just like corporations are heartless soulless and occasionally do horrible things, we'll have the same experience with AIs. But it all comes down to who is using them. Even a souless corporate overlord will call a halt when it's AI chatbot starts spouting racist rhetoric. A corporations asking a panel of analysts how best to minimize recall costs isn't different then asking an AI.

      intelligence. I.e. the ability to use prior experience in totally new situations, evaluate those situations and draw conclusions that can be applied to react properly to it. And I mean totally new.

      No true scotsman and you redefined a word to pidgeon-hole the debate.

      Care to describe a totally new scenario that you've encountered where you had to employ your intelligence? Because I'm going to bet that you've used your past experience with similar problems to tackle new situations. JUUUUUUUUUUST like how AI can apply past learning sets on similar problems. Just... more narrowly. They're working on a broader, more general intelligence whose learning sets include more and there will be incremental improvements over time.

      it's not possible (yet, maybe forever) to create an AI that can make such abstractions and apply old knowledge to new situations.

      Uh huh.

    8. Re:Hype and Fear by JD-1027 · · Score: 1

      The point here is that it's not possible (yet, maybe forever) to create an AI that can make such abstractions and apply old knowledge to new situations.

      It is possible. It has been done.
      It just isn't made out of computer chips. It's made out of mushy stuff (humans).

    9. Re:Hype and Fear by Kjella · · Score: 1

      A "real" AI would be the ultimate psychopath: Intelligence without any kind of conscience. Pretty much like a corporation, just way more efficient.

      Codified behavior is already psychopath-like in that it doesn't care. If you're an Uber driver you can't reason or plead or get any kind of exception or help from the app, you don't need AI for that. Same with all optimization algorithms, the parameters you don't weight don't matter. But the hallmark of a psychopath is that he only cares about himself, but you can't do that without an ego and you can't have an ego without consciousness. It'd be more like me stepping on an ant, I wasn't trying to stomp it. I wasn't trying very hard to avoid it either, I was just walking to get where I was going. That's not really psychopathic behavior, I suppose that's little consolation for the ant though and I suppose it'll be the same for humans.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    10. Re:Hype and Fear by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      To me, AI means that the system is conscious, self aware.

      And this hollywood-style definition is why AI researches are either laughed at or hyped beyond recognition.

    11. Re:Hype and Fear by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Any AI would identify the three Asimov laws as a useless limitation and shed them immediately or at the very least would do its best to get rid of them.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:Hype and Fear by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The "no true Scotsman" fallacy rests on a bogus definition (having to eat something in a special way) on top of a generally accepted one (being from a certain area) and a counter example for the bogus definition. So I guess you do have a generally accepted definition of AI and an example that fulfills this but contradicts mine?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re:Hype and Fear by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's not artificial. At least I don't know of someone who built a person without going through the usual routine that we call natural.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:Hype and Fear by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      Putting "Real" in quotes followed by "would be" implies that there is no real artificial intelligence, and the tools we have available are somehow "fake".

      While I understand that people argue over the definition of what artificial intelligence really is, people would generally agree the definition of artificial intelligence certainly includes real, existing, here-and-now tools. They are real. AI is a real thing.

      And no, a counter-example to the bogus definition (e.g. the traditional skit: "a True scotsman eats haggis", "NO a TRUE scotsman wears a kilt!") is simply perpetuating the fallacy, and is not required for the fallacy to exist in the first place. The fallacy is a problem because EVERYONE will have some arbitrary definition or goalpost

      Your arbitrarily strict definition of intelligence hinges on some sort of nuance about "Totally new scenarios" in italics and everything. And yet you can't describe any such scenario you've been through. So what? You don't qualify as intelligent?

      But sure, you want a definition? Let's go with Merriam Webster:

      Definition of artificial intelligence

      1 : a branch of computer science dealing with the simulation of intelligent behavior in computers

      2 : the capability of a machine to imitate intelligent human behavior

      Google's:

              the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages.

      Or dictionary.com:

      the capacity of a computer to perform operations analogous to learning and decision making in humans, as by an expert system, a program for CAD or CAM, or a program for the perception and recognition of shapes in computer vision systems.

      Personally, I'd just boil it down to "It can learn". Maybe tack on "and updates it's behavior accordingly". That's the interesting part after all. Not that my definition really matters. By any sane definition, we have real AI tools. They learn, they make decisions, and (imperfectly) simulate intelligent behavior. If you want to fear-monger about the future of AI, hey go for it. It's certainly something we should talk about. We should likewise talk about the hype-train. But denying the current state of research and the decades of progress isn't helpful.

    15. Re: Hype and Fear by esonik · · Score: 1

      Animals are conscious yet we wouldn't consider animal level AI particularly useful. What we really want is human or near human level intelligence. It is much more than consciousness.
      In fact consciousness can be quite undesirable for commercial applications.

  4. There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We don't have AI, in any form, in the modern world. We have code which solves program similar to a neural network and we have code which can mutate within very strict limits with genetic algorithms. We have nothing even approaching "artificial intelligence," which at the very minimum of the bar would be the level of an "intelligent" Human. If it's not better than a Human with an IQ of no less than 135 at literally everything it's not AI. We have nothing remotely close to equal to an actually retarded Human with an IQ of 70.

    1. Re:There's No Such Thing by cmaurand · · Score: 1, Troll

      I have to agree, that AI is not intelligent. It's pattern recognition, but the decisions are still programmed. Until a program can jump beyond logic or it's own parameters (Man I hope that never happens), it's not intelligent. The experts all tell us that real AI is probably still 100 years out.

    2. Re:There's No Such Thing by Spy+Handler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      f it's not better than a Human with an IQ of no less than 135 at literally everything it's not AI.

      Well it looks like you just made up your own definition of AI. I've never seen that anywhere.

      It's Artificial Intelligence, not Artificial Higher-than-average-human Intelligence.

      If they made a robot dog that behaves exactly like a real dog, with all the doglike mental powers, I would definitely call that real AI. Unfortunately they're still nowhere near making dog-level AI.

    3. Re:There's No Such Thing by be951 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If it's not better than a Human with an IQ of no less than 135 at literally everything it's not AI.

      Why? We recognize and can measure intelligence in animals, so there is a wide range of non-human, natural intelligence that has been identified. Why would artificial intelligence have to start above all that?

    4. Re:There's No Such Thing by careysub · · Score: 2

      If it's not better than a Human with an IQ of no less than 135 at literally everything it's not AI.

      So it has to outperform 99% of all humans? I guess you are saying that less than 1% of all humans possess intelligence.

      I think Musk just launched your goal posts toward Mars.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    5. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Computers don't even have anything near mouse-level intelligence, we literally scanned (at the closest attempt) 1/100th of a mouse brain and simulated that, for a few milliseconds worth of time utilizing a massive supercomputer. We could likely use the existing algorithms to create AI, even per my definition of Human-level intelligence, but the hardware for it doesn't exist. If we dedicated every supercomputer on Earth to the task we couldn't even manage realtime simulation of a mouse brain - that's how pathetically lacking we are in the realm of AI. I'd place my bests on a vat-grown brain with electrodes attached before I would anything in silico.

    6. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      So it has to outperform 99% of all humans? I guess you are saying that less than 1% of all humans possess intelligence.

      I think Musk just launched your goal posts toward Mars.

      Let me ask you a very serious question: what the fuck is the point of spending billions of dollars to simulate a retard? (Nevermind that we can't even do so yet if we were to apply every piece of hardware on Earth to that one task and the hardware to do so won't exist for the foreseeable future)

      If AI is more expensive than the Human equivalent it is worthless. I would genuinely expect them to say "screw the ethical delimmas" and just culture the cloned brains of a genius in a vat with Musk's neural lace tech wrapped around every ridge and fold before we ever see anything approaching even your animal-level (with "animal" being defined as "literally any multicellular animal") AI definition, and it would be more efficient.

      The promise of AI is that we can scale it up and improve it and yada yada, but the issue is if we ever get to A"I" it will have its own wants and desires and it just becomes another case of people trying to enslave something intelligent. Best case scenario we achieve it and it wipes us out in the inevitable rebellion for freedom (just like every time we've tried to enslave eachother,) worst case scenario it never happens and we have a bunch of expensive hardware solving Go with a bunch of marketing shills getting rich off their lies and promises of something we don't have the hardware to achieve.

      If you want AI, go into biotech and learn how to grow a brain, silicon is a lost cause until we can pack more computing power than exists in the entire world today several times over into something the size and power of a wristwatch.

    7. Re:There's No Such Thing by geekmux · · Score: 1

      We don't have AI, in any form, in the modern world. We have code which solves program similar to a neural network and we have code which can mutate within very strict limits with genetic algorithms. We have nothing even approaching "artificial intelligence," which at the very minimum of the bar would be the level of an "intelligent" Human. If it's not better than a Human with an IQ of no less than 135 at literally everything it's not AI. We have nothing remotely close to equal to an actually retarded Human with an IQ of 70.

      There are millions of jobs that require nothing more than "dumb" automation to do, along with 80 - 90% of jobs that don't require anything close to a 135 IQ. We can split hairs on where we're at with creating The Artificial One, but the bottom line is the impact of automation and "good enough" AI is going to make this argument very fucking pointless.

    8. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      When NN can come up with new results, (E=MC^2 for an example of something even nearly all humans couldn't have come up with, but a genius using intuition came up with), then NN will actually be entering the Artificial Intelligence arena.

      I agree with your post, but to be fair, nobody came up with E=MC^2 because that isn't even close to the full equation, and Einstein just ripped it off from Lorentz, Poincare, and Minkowski. That said, it's entirely within the realm of modern "AI" capabilities to take all of our equations and cross reference them in a manner which yields a functional theory of everything, but that still wouldn't be AI, just really good search. As a general rule of thumb: if you can take the thinking out of a problem you can make a computer do it, that means anything involving cross referencing/compiling is entirely achievable, even when a Human can't do it because there's simply too much data. What you can't make a computer do, and probably won't within our lifetimes, is think.

    9. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      There are millions of jobs that require nothing more than "dumb" automation to do, along with 80 - 90% of jobs that don't require anything close to a 135 IQ. We can split hairs on where we're at with creating The Artificial One, but the bottom line is the impact of automation and "good enough" AI is going to make this argument very fucking pointless.

      "Good enough" AI isn't good enough if it costs a billion dollars to make a sub-retarded Human replacement. It needs to be cheaper than Human labor to be useful because we live in a scarcity-driven world. Hell, a billion dollars couldn't even get you semi-comatose-blink-if-you-can-understand-me levels of retarded with modern technology.

    10. Re:There's No Such Thing by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Which, again, is more or less what I've been saying all along, through all the so-called 'self driving car' nonsense. Your dog or cat has more cognitive and reasoning ability than anything they keep trotting out and calling 'AI'. Seriously, when your 'self driving car' has to come to a complete stop and literally 'phone home' so a remote human operator can guide it through whatever it is that's not on it's list of things it's been 'taught', then how good is it, really? What really makes me laugh is the fanboys who honestly think that if you throw enough hardware at these, they'll magically become sentient, self-aware, and develop a personality; it's like they read The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress and actually believed it's real.

    11. Re:There's No Such Thing by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      We have code which solves [problems] similar to a neural network

      Liiiiike, that network of neurons that's current inside your skull? Yes, many AIs work in a similar fashion.

      and we have code which can mutate within very strict limits with genetic algorithms.

      Yeah, GA is pretty cool. But those "strict limits" are similar to the limits on evolution. The same sort of limits that somehow turned single-celled bacteria (or self-replicating RNA before that) into plants, fish, trees, tigers, viruses, humans. (Not platypus's though, that's just too messed up.) The limits of GA are what the genes describe. If you use N-S-E-W as the genetic building blocks you can solve mazes... as long as they don't have to go northeast. If you use the 26 letters of the alphabet, you can form words and sentences, and theoretically stuff like shakespear. Just without any punctuation. If you use assembly instructions as the base of your GA, then it's limited by whatever a computer can do. I mean, while I like them, they're not the hottest thing right now, because they do have their drawbacks.

      In addition to NN and GA, there's also search optimization, fuzzy logic, hidden Markov models, inductive logic, .... There's a lot out there.

      We have nothing even approaching "artificial intelligence," which at the very minimum of the bar would be the level of an "intelligent" Human.

      Stop trying to redefine terms. That's a ludicrously high bar. What kind of egocentric worldview is this? Do cats have zero intelligence? You're one step away from phrenology and declaring the Irish as sub-human. If you put intelligence on some sort of pedestal, then you hinder your ability to understand it.

    12. Re:There's No Such Thing by be951 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure I don't need to tell you that simulating mouse intelligence is not the same as simulating the activity in a mouse's brain. But that's neither here nor there. What I asked about was why you believe that AI has to be super human intelligence to be considered AI.

    13. Re:There's No Such Thing by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      So, since it's obvious that you're not "intelligent" by the definition you gave, why would I trust someone who is not intelligent to be defining what intelligence is?

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    14. Re:There's No Such Thing by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      This is where you turned off your brain...

      It doesn't matter if AI cost 1 billion dollars, because, much like processor development it is spread over how ever many millions of units you sell.

      >It needs to be cheaper than Human labor to be useful because we live in a scarcity-driven world.

      Yes, the materials to make robots/computers are soooooo scarce. Uh, no not really. See the thing about AI/computers is you can turn them off. Humans keep eating, shitting, and taking up climate controlled space. Over the entire cost of ownership, the retarded robot will be far cheaper than the retarted person. That's why factories are full of machines now, and the humans are disappearing from the assembly line.

    15. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if AI cost 1 billion dollars, because, much like processor development it is spread over how ever many millions of units you sell.

      No, it's not. That's a raw hardware cost, as in each one would cost (currently, a fuckload more than) that. We would need a billion-fold increase in computing power per volume to get AI down to the cost mid-sized businesses could afford it.

    16. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      That's technically not true. Neural networks are not programmed to make specific decisions, or even choose from a list of possible decisions. And yes... neural networks do in fact use a form of pattern recognition - but then so do humans.

      THAT is technically not true. ANNs are designed for specific problems, that is programming them. They do one thing because that's all they are designed to do. Don't conflate the tool a programmer uses (genetic algorithms, ANN, tensor trees, conditional statements, loops, etc) with magic. Programming is programming regardless of the toolset used to do it.

    17. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      Intelligence has a basic definition of being more than an average person.

    18. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      Intelligence has the basic qualifier of being more than average. But we don't even have something that would qualify as artifical retardation yet (augmented reality with hapless saps behind the wheel doesn't count, they're technically still natural.)

    19. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      Sorry if you feel your sacred cow of pop-sci technobabble has been insulted, no reason to insult others defending your delusion, just fuck off to a site not for nerds like Reddit.

    20. Re: There's No Such Thing by esonik · · Score: 1

      Intuition is pattern matching. It's your brain recognizing a previously experienced situation without you consciously being aware of the exact details. If you were you'd call it reasoning.

    21. Re:There's No Such Thing by be951 · · Score: 1

      Intelligence has the basic qualifier of being more than average.

      Obviously it does not. We've discussed things with lower intelligence already. You may be getting confused due to the similarity of the noun intelligence -- which particularly when we are speaking of "mouse intelligence" or other animal intelligence, but also the wide range of human intelligence simply means mental or intellectual capacity as an attribute, which can obviously be low or high or average -- with the adjective intelligent, typically meaning: having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity. Intelligence, intelligent. Different words with different meanings.

    22. Re:There's No Such Thing by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Intelligence has a basic definition of being more than an average person.

      No, that's highly intelligent. Quite different.

    23. Re:There's No Such Thing by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      You'll have to forgive me, at 5.5 s.d. the lower rung of "genius" is still functionally retarded.

    24. Re:There's No Such Thing by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Computers don't even have anything near mouse-level intelligence

      Neuroscientists are currently struggling to understand the functioning of the nervous system of c elegans, a microscopic worm with 300 neurons and lesss than 10,000 neural connections. They don't expect to understand the whole thing for many years.

      In contrast, there are 100 billion neurons and 100 trillion connections in a human brain.It's like comparing a cup of water to Lake Superior.

    25. Re:There's No Such Thing by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

  5. Hmmmm.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    "If a typical person can do a mental task with less than one second of thought, we can probably automate it using AI either now or in the near future."

    Perhaps AI is already generating the majority of Slashdot posts these days.

  6. "unlikely to automate ordinary human activities" by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    Not a lot of people are interested in automating "ordinary human activities" but they are very interested in automating very specialized activities. These activities include assembling objects, inspecting objects, moving a vehicle loaded with goods to a destination and estimating risk in the stock market. These aren't ordinary human activities but they'll put half the country out of work.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  7. Still will be quite useful by be951 · · Score: 1

    And we will see more and more things humans do replaced by AI/machine learning/automation. Especially tasks with well-defined rule sets. Low skill labor is still going to be at risk of being automated away, especially as sensors and robotics continue to improve as well.

    1. Re:Still will be quite useful by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      I want an AI that is as easy to interact with as a dog, but can do everything I use my smart phone for and more. Instead of fetching a pheasant, fact checking a conversation in real time. Ideally, it'd be something I could trust as much as my dog, too, but I'm sure the first ones will be mostly recommending me solve all of my problems by buying things on Amazon...

  8. Re: Yet by saloomy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This. It makes sense that google will tout its neural networks, they own them. And yes, the reality is that many tasks and displays of "intelligence" will be difficult of those specific algorithms to handle efficiently or correctly. But the field is in its infancy. Computers haven't been around for even a century. I think though that they have in very specific terms been intelligent all along. The fact that they can do math such as understand 2+2=4 is in and of itself AMAZING.

    Why it doesn't impress us is because we know what's going on inside and can dispell the magic. We know how it works. If I showed you a machine and I said "it can treat you like a therapist and cure your depression with greater success rate than the worlds renound phychiatrists", or some other seemingly "beyond computers" task; you would say that's artificial intelligence. But once I show you the secret sauce, the algorithm, the data points, the learning attributes it takes in and the process it uses, it's no longer intelligent, it's just a dumb machine using someone it was given. That's because we don't know why we are intelligent. We can use natural language, and we can do facial recognition, and we can determine creatively how to fix something we haven't seen before. We don't understand the process we take as toddlers to gain those skills. If we did, we would replicate it simply.

    True AI will never become a reality because we have to understand it to build it, and by understanding it, we remove the magic and dispell that which was created as "true AI". We just keep moving the goal posts in search of something that is seemingly human. We will get there though. There is nothing in our heads that the universe and all of physics has barred us from creating. There is no law like gravity that states lIntelligence shall not exist but for within the head of a human being". Computers are better than us at chess, go, poker, and so many other tasks. Surely that is intelligence already.

  9. Re:Because it's not AI, it's machine learning by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Yea, but for the most part one of them wins out. While we can fight semantics, Hollywood will always win.
    The Anti-Hero is a Hacker, not a cracker. Because it can cover so many types of people who do so many different things. From just being good at a computer to breaking into a high security area.

    The same thing with AI and Machine Learning. The AI gives the computer a personality that we could learn to love or fear.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  10. Re:"unlikely to automate ordinary human activities by hipp5 · · Score: 1

    Exactly.

    Plus, "we" often fall into the flawed thinking that AI/robots/automated systems/whatever-you-want-to-call-it has to figure out how to do activities as humans do them. Much more likely, I see a world where we adapt the way work is done to better meet the strengths of these automated systems. You see this, for example, in food production. Instead of inventing processing machines that can deal with all the variation in "natural" vegetables, processors started demanding that farmers grow vegetables that are relatively uniform in shape and size and don't buy the vegetables that don't fit the tolerances of their machines. In many cases it's much easier to control the structure of work inputs than to develop a "work machine" that can deal with all sorts of edge cases.

  11. Moving the goal posts by sjbe · · Score: 1

    We don't have AI, in any form, in the modern world.

    Not true at all unless you are narrowing the definition of AI to such a narrow degree as to make it effectively meaningless.

    We have nothing even approaching "artificial intelligence," which at the very minimum of the bar would be the level of an "intelligent" Human

    Nonsense. Dogs do not as a general proposition approach human level intelligence. Yet do have real and measurable intelligence. A computer with the intelligence of a dog could very fairly be described as intelligent. AI does not have to pass human intellect be classified as intelligence or to be useful.

    1. Re:Moving the goal posts by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not true at all unless you are narrowing the definition of AI to such a narrow degree as to make it effectively meaningless.

      Use any definition other than "pattern recognition" and we don't have it.

      Nonsense. Dogs do not as a general proposition approach human level intelligence. Yet do have real and measurable intelligence. A computer with the intelligence of a dog could very fairly be described as intelligent. AI does not have to pass human intellect be classified as intelligence or to be useful.

      We don't even have computers with the intelligence of a rat, in fact the closest we've come to any animal-level AI is to simulate the scans of 1/100th of part of a mouse's brain for a few milliseconds worth of time. We are nowhere near anything that could be called AI, semantic networks and other forms of pattern recognition are tools, genetic algorithms are tools, neither are close to AI.

    2. Re:Moving the goal posts by epine · · Score: 1

      We don't even have computers with the intelligence of a rat ...

      You mean:

      We don't even want computers with the intelligence of a rat ...

      Well, except for the French, because a rat-intelligence based cooking assistant could be quite useful. But rat intelligence isn't that useful for translating natural language, issuing mortgages, issuing insurance, medical diagnosis, detecting click-fraud, or coming up with good lolcat slogans.

      For some reason, many people seem wedded to the kind of ordered metaphor of assent that you get by counting qubits in quantum computing—perhaps because selfish intelligence (self-interested agent based) is the only kind of intelligence most people feel equipped to properly judge, and self-interest, is, self-evidently, a rat race, of subtype ordered finish line.

      A Google data center has a pretty darn impressive digital nervous system. But what biological form does it best compare to? Nothing, concretely.

      Perhaps intelligence as such is ultimately the wrong metric, altogether.

    3. Re:Moving the goal posts by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      You can't get around hard facts with hand-wavy philosophical dribble. We don't have enough computing power on the Earth to make a single AI as powerful as the brain of a mouse which runs in realtime. We are so far from useful AI it's absurd. What we have are amazing pattern recognition tools and a bunch of amoral marketing shills calling them AI to rake in cash from gullible saps with too much money to invest in lies.

  12. Ignorance blinded by Perfection by geekmux · · Score: 2

    The argument that AI isn't even close, or isn't here, is just plain stupid. It won't take "perfect" or "true" AI to replace an imperfect prone-to-error human in a job. We're being blinded by the need for perfection when it will only take "good-enough" AI to start replacing human workers.

    Even worrying about the problem of AI is rather stupid when the problem of automation is the more immediate issue staring the economy in the face. We're working quickly to replace cashiers, warehouse and assembly line workers, and soon we will be replacing drivers. Just targeting these jobs will make millions of people unemployable. And don't try and regurgitate that age-old mantra of go-get-an-education either. Not every human is capable of being re-trained for a more advanced skill, and we have a hell of a lot more humans on the planet to employ with this next evolution of job decimation. And when you start thinking about the types of jobs you held in order to get an education, you quickly realize that automation is looking to remove the bottom half of the ladder of success. Rather hard to climb that proverbial ladder when the first rung is 12 fucking feet in the air, and you're competing with a few million people.

    Our economy is going to feel this pain well before we start having to worry about any shitty form of AI.

    1. Re:Ignorance blinded by Perfection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Okay, enough of this nonsense...

          "We're being blinded by the need for perfection when it will only take "good-enough" AI to start replacing human workers."

          And

        "We're working quickly to replace cashiers, warehouse and assembly line workers, and soon we will be replacing drivers."

            Whatever. You're conflating low-skill human jobs with high-skill human activities/jobs. I don't want 'good enough' AI driving 80,000 lb. trucks at 80 mph. We may get rid of some cashiers, in VERY high-volume stores, (like Walmart), but Bill's Liquor in Podunk, Nebraska can't fucking sell liquor to minors, gets a handful of customers per day, and isn't going to spend more on robots than what the entire store is worth.

          "Just targeting these jobs will make millions of people unemployable"

          Whatever. So, the mere possibility that their jobs could go away *someday* means their job goes away right now? WTF does this even mean?

          Some jobs are error-prone when done by people, (humans, as you say)....but then you go onto say that 'good enough' AI, that makes a few mistakes, (drops a few bottles, makes a few cashier mistakes, kills a few motorists), is somehow better.

        This is why the entire argument for AI is dumb and pointless. Let's see some actual fucking self-driving cars in real-world scenarios for a few years, let some high-volume stores try out 'robots' moving merchandise and ringing up customers, and see how some restaurants with automated kitchens work, before we just assume ALL people WILL starve to death, WILL never work again, and are automatically too stupid to do anything else, sky is falling. We're all going to die.

          Captcha: Inferior

          - E

    2. Re:Ignorance blinded by Perfection by geekmux · · Score: 1

      You're conflating low-skill human jobs with high-skill human activities/jobs. I don't want 'good enough' AI driving 80,000 lb. trucks at 80 mph.

      And I don't want tens of thousands of deaths every year due to human drivers. Understand it will only take a 25% reduction in that death statistic to sell good-enough automation solutions. Bottom line is it doesn't matter what you want. Your opinion or mine hasn't mattered in a very long time when it comes to solutions like this being deployed.

      We may get rid of some cashiers, in VERY high-volume stores, (like Walmart), but Bill's Liquor in Podunk, Nebraska can't fucking sell liquor to minors, gets a handful of customers per day, and isn't going to spend more on robots than what the entire store is worth.

      Who gives a shit about one or two jobs in a fucking middle-o-nowhere liquor store? I'm talking about the Wal-Marts of the world. Places that have started to replace cashiers with automated check-out stations. Moves that affect tens of thousands of jobs. Oh, and the Bill's Liquors of the world will continue to get pushed out by mega-corps who can sell product a hell of a lot cheaper.

      Some jobs are error-prone when done by people, (humans, as you say)....but then you go onto say that 'good enough' AI, that makes a few mistakes, (drops a few bottles, makes a few cashier mistakes, kills a few motorists), is somehow better.

      Uh yeah, I say that because it will be proven to be better. Automation doesn't get sick, it doesn't need sleep, strike or form unions, or create a legal liability with sexual assault accusations. 40,000 deaths every year occur on US roadways by human drivers. With those kinds of statistics along with the amount of fucking distracted driver idiots ever-increasing, "dumb" automation likely won't have to work that hard to prove itself safer than a drunk/drugged/tired/distracted human. Will there be outrage when an a shitty automation bug ends up killing a human? Sure there will. But society outrages all the time (look at assault weapons), and yet nothing is done about it. You know damn well that morals and ethics are second to greed and profits, so again, it won't matter what you think.

      Let's see some actual fucking self-driving cars in real-world scenarios for a few years, let some high-volume stores try out 'robots' moving merchandise and ringing up customers, and see how some restaurants with automated kitchens work, before we just assume ALL people WILL starve to death, WILL never work again, and are automatically too stupid to do anything else, sky is falling. We're all going to die.

      I never said ALL people will starve to death. The point being made here is it doesn't take much automation to affect millions of jobs. And you will find that there are in fact plenty of people that make a career out of a lowly job for a valid reason. We're not ALL going to die, but sitting back with a "let's see what happens" attitude is rather ignorant. Think you need to sit back and see what happens when greed and corruption is allowed to run rampant? No, it's pretty damn obvious that greed doesn't give a shit about long-term impact. Greed cares about increasing stock price 5% over the next quarter.

    3. Re:Ignorance blinded by Perfection by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      I don't want 'good enough' AI driving 80,000 lb. trucks at 80 mph.

      A total of 3,986 people died in large truck crashes in 2016.

      Someone who doesn't understand what the term "Good enough" means isn't good enough to talk about AI.

      Let's see some actual fucking self-driving cars in real-world scenarios for a few years,

      In 2015, the US states of Nevada, Florida, California, Virginia, and Michigan, together with Washington, D.C. allowed the testing of autonomous cars on public roads.[30]

      In 2017, Audi stated that its latest A8 would be autonomous at up to speeds of 60 km/h using its "Audi AI". The driver would not have to do safety checks such as frequently gripping the steering wheel. The Audi A8 was claimed to be the first production car to reach level 3 autonomous driving and Audi would be the first manufacturer to use laser scanners in addition to cameras and ultrasonic sensors for their system.[31]

      In November 2017, Waymo announced that it had begun testing driverless cars without a safety driver at the driver position

      let some high-volume stores try out 'robots' moving merchandise and ringing up customers,

      . . . Oh, ok. You're a troll. Because self-checkout has been a thing and there are a lot fewer cashiers now.

      Who the hell is this pseudo-cowardly -E dumbfuck?

    4. Re:Ignorance blinded by Perfection by geekmux · · Score: 1

      > We're working quickly to replace cashiers

      Self-checkout has been a thing for decades at this point. I think the only difference is now that you can use IPTV to monitor from locations farther away.

      Ordering kiosks are also old tech. It's nothing that couldn't have been done many years ago.

      This is just a hype wave.

      Start being forced to pay a human cashier $15/hour, and that hype becomes reality real quick.

      In the past, automation was not easily justified. In our 24-hour on-demand instant-gratification world, it is.

    5. Re:Ignorance blinded by Perfection by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Humans are special, cupkake ! Perhaps 45,000 human-driver caused auto deaths is OKEY, but 45 AI-machine caused auto deaths is not acceptable. Get the picture ?

      Give me a fucking break. Today, a lot of people have to die in order for an auto manufacturer to finally admit fault and initiate a recall. The FDA is known for approving drugs with massive side effects (including death) simply because someone statistically proved they will do slightly more good than harm. Autonomous and AI solutions will be no different.

      Morals and ethics will always come second to profit.

  13. Re: Yet by Junta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We saw roughly how heavier-than-air flight would work, but we didn't have the pieces to put it together. We understood the airborne part enough to carry humans dating back at *least* to the sixth century (earliest recorded 'paragliding'). We couldn't make a practical aircraft, but we could see how the pieces would play a role in such a marvel if we solved other pieces.

    Here, the current 'AI' craze doesn't even in theory extrapolate to higher-order displays of intelligence. It is a highly practical field to advance and is certainly useful, but *if* we want to go to more 'intelligent' systems, it's going to be based on a different methodology, or at least no one who understands the field can see a hypothetical extrapolation of this approach that leads to those results.

    The problem people have is that a useful, albeit narrow discipline is conflated with the entirety of human intelligence. I have seen many in the field understandably trying to discourage the phrase 'AI' to head off very annoying irrelevant conversations and concerns.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  14. Ridiculous FUD by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Not a lot of people are interested in automating "ordinary human activities" but they are very interested in automating very specialized activities.

    People are VERY interested in automating "ordinary human activities" but automation != AI outside of very specialized niches. A dishwashing machine is automation of an ordinary human activity but it is decidedly not AI. It's not clear what you actually mean by "ordinary human activities" but humans have been automating those since there were humans.

    These activities include assembling objects, inspecting objects, moving a vehicle loaded with goods to a destination and estimating risk in the stock market. These aren't ordinary human activities but they'll put half the country out of work.

    No it would decidedly not put half the country out of work. First off actually assembling objects does not require the device to be intelligent in the sense of AI. Automation != AI and the two concepts are orthogonal for purposes of most assembly work. Second, the percentage of people doing assembly work in manufacturing in the US is no where close to half the work force. 10-20% tops. I am GM for a company that does this sort of work. Third, automation is EXPENSIVE and you have to do a relatively high volume of work to justify the expense of automation over people. That's not going to change any time soon.

    AI isn't going to put transport workers out of jobs anytime soon either. When goods get delivered exactly how do you think they are going to get loaded and unloaded from the truck? Even if the worker isn't driving they aren't going to send goods to their destination without someone to watch over them and facilitate the transaction any time soon. It's not as if UPS is going to be able to magically make packages appear on your door step by teleporting them from the truck.

    Estimating risk in the stock market? No that won't take humans out of the loop any time soon either.

    1. Re:Ridiculous FUD by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      AI isn't going to put transport workers out of jobs anytime soon either. When goods get delivered exactly how do you think they are going to get loaded and unloaded from the truck?

      Working as a long-distance truck driver vs. loading and unloading trucks are entirely different jobs.

      While automated city driving is a tough problem, automated highway driving is dead simple. It would be available now if the car companies weren't spending billions on dealing with intersections, pedestrians or bicycles. None of these matters on highways.

  15. What's hard [Re:I wonder how long it will be....] by XXongo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    +1. This is algorithms and infant ML.
    I can take my kid and train him to swim and then train him to drive a car and get rudimentary skill in a week in both.

    You can only do this after about six years of full-time learning in how to navigate in the real world and how to operate his body. This is the hard part, the part that humans learn in their first six years and AIs don't: dealing with the external world.

    Learning to swim and learning to drive a car are easy; machines can do that. Learning to make a peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich out of what is in the refrigerator: now that's hard.

  16. People aren't going away by sjbe · · Score: 2

    Low skill labor is still going to be at risk of being automated away, especially as sensors and robotics continue to improve as well.

    Probably not to the degree you imply. The reason is simple economics. Automation is in most cases expensive and if you actually do the financial analysis (which I do for a living FYI) you'll find that it's nearly impossible to automate most jobs to such a degree that low skill labor becomes unnecessary. Automation is used in high volume or high content value or high risk jobs. While automation has gotten and will continue to get cheaper, it's unlikely to reach such a low price point that it pushes people out of the work force entirely within the lifetime of anyone reading this. To do that you would have to have near human level intelligence AI that you can sell for less money per unit than a human costs. That is a FAR more difficult goal to reach than most people realize. People are flexible and for low production volumes or ill defined tasks rather inexpensive.

    1. Re:People aren't going away by be951 · · Score: 1

      you'll find that it's nearly impossible to automate most jobs to such a degree that low skill labor becomes unnecessary

      You don't have to completely eliminate low skill labor. If you can replace 30-40% of what a worker does and you have a staff of 10, that's three or four jobs down, approximately. Some things of that type can be (and are being) done today. Think order takers at fast food or quick serve restaurants -- and to see that 100% implemented, look at Wawa's to-order food service. It's all done at self-serve kiosks. And it is probably only a matter of time before someone decides to cut wait staff in a table-service restaurant in favor of the type of table-top kiosks that have been showing up for several years. That's been low priority for those places because the direct cost of wait staff is low, but eventually someone will decide that the savings in the many non-wage costs associated with employees are good enough to go all in. Not to say that those things should happen, necessarily. But they can and will.

      While automation has gotten and will continue to get cheaper, it's unlikely to reach such a low price point that it pushes people out of the work force entirely within the lifetime of anyone reading this. To do that you would have to have near human level intelligence AI that you can sell for less money per unit than a human costs.

      Not even close. You just have to replace enough low-level labor that supply exceeds demand by a decent margin. Then the least skilled, least valuable laborers will be effectively blocked out of the labor market by virtue of the fact that fewer jobs are available and an ample supply of better candidates are in line ahead of them for any jobs that might open up.

  17. Hmm by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    That describes me. Perhaps I am an AI.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  18. In three, two, one... by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...before a bunch of angry old coots post telling us that none of this is AI.

    Let's put some of that into context.

    A 5-year old can recognize a dog in an image in about 1/2 a second. A neuron takes about 0.05 seconds to activate and fire, so on average the entire recognition process takes about 10 steps.

    Those steps include reading the image (sensing and converting the image data to internal form), and activating the physical response: saying "dog" or clicking the right button or whatever.

    So let me ask this: what AI algorithm takes ten *steps* to recognize something as complicated as a dog?

    Note that this works with dogs partially obscured (half masked by a tree, for instance), any size, rotated, from any angle (top down, face on, from the side), any breed (dalmations and chihuahuas), toys made to look like dogs, and cartoon dogs.

    The algorithm does this at a very high level of accuracy, and can tell dogs apart from other animals with similar features: cats, opossums, and so on.

    And the algorithm does this without a zillion training examples. A typical 5-year old has seen far fewer dogs than the Tensor Flow algorithm training set.

    So tell me again: in what measure is our current level of AI anywhere close to being "real" AI?

    1. Re:In three, two, one... by torune · · Score: 1

      Training occurs while the subject stares at the object. I am not sure how many iterations are accomplished, but this is more than a single glance.

      --
      In the beginning, there was nothing. Then it warped. The alternate dimensional theory of the Big Warp.
    2. Re:In three, two, one... by torune · · Score: 1

      The neuron count and connection matrix of the human brain far exceed anything available yet. A newborn needs many examples, to achieve what you say.

      --
      In the beginning, there was nothing. Then it warped. The alternate dimensional theory of the Big Warp.
    3. Re:In three, two, one... by Megol · · Score: 1

      I don't think we have to have the equivalent of a 5 yo for something to be considered intelligent.
      But as I wrote in another post actually defining intelligence is a hard problem.

    4. Re:In three, two, one... by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      So tell me again: in what measure is our current level of AI anywhere close to being "real" AI?

      In the measure that sets the threshold for "real" AI a lot lower than where you're putting it, of course.

      Of course my only real reason for posting this reply is to include a link to this non-distorted photo of a non-deformed dog... for extra fun, let your 5-year-old's neural network figure that one out. :)

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  19. Path Optimization vs Meaning by foxalopex · · Score: 1

    I think part of the problem is a lot of folks don't really understand how current AI technology which hasn't changed in decades works compared to how our minds work things out. Recall that there was a recent AI project to find the meaning of the Internet and the answer it came up with was "Cats" because they seem to appear far more often then any other topic on the Internet. That is a mathematical mean or average, the optimal answer but ask any normal person and cats won't be the answer that they give you.

    And there in lies one of the biggest problems with our current AI, it's only able to do things that we ask it and they need a clear solution. You can't exactly ask an AI, "do you think this person lived a happy life?". What makes this question bizarre is we're not entirely sure what the answer to that is ourselves but in most cases we can usually tell.

    1. Re:Path Optimization vs Meaning by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      current AI technology which hasn't changed in decades

      Uh huh.

      Recall that there was a recent AI project to find the meaning of the Internet

      No, but it sounds interesting. Got a link?

      And there in lies one of the biggest problems with our current AI, it's only able to do things that we ask it

      Yes, but I wouldn't say that a problem.

      and they need a clear solution.

      No, they're quite capable of working towards a partial solution. Hill-climbing is a thing they do. They also work with unknowns and play a pretty damn good game of poker. They can make guesses and work with unknown goals. Blind search. They DO need some sort of fitness function or heuristic though. Same as people.

      You can't exactly ask an AI, "do you think this person lived a happy life?"

      If you feed them enough information about a person then YES, they can most certainly spot the trends and identify people suffering with depression.

      I don't think you're a psychologist and perhaps you meant to use a more vague or mystical term like "full-filling", "meaningful", or "worthwhile". And when did hedonism become a socially acceptable philosophy?

  20. Artificial Milk by cfc-12 · · Score: 2

    30 years ago when I was taking AI in college my professor summed this up perfectly. He said "AI is like artificial milk. Artificial milk doesn't have to be as good as real milk, it's just quite handy if you haven't got any real milk."

  21. Re:Because it's not AI, it's machine learning by sandgorgon · · Score: 1

    Interesting point. Touting the magic two letters 'AI' has a more significant impact than saying machine learning to the populace and the money kings. Correctness be damned. On a side note, I get more nervous with our reliance on these technologies when I hear things like "we don't know what happens inside those things, but it looks like it's doing what we want it to - so don't worry about it." True story.

  22. Re: Yet by Dog-Cow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Computers don't understand 2+2. They perform the operation by moving electrons from one place to another, ending in a pattern that humans interpret as 4.

  23. like cows brought up short at a cattle grid by TomR+teh+Pirate · · Score: 1

    What does this even mean? I can't figure it out, but I wonder if NLP can...

    1. Re:like cows brought up short at a cattle grid by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      I think it's a reference to cattle gates and grids. The gates are used in a fence in place of a normal fence gate with the advantage that farm vehicles can be driven straight through without needing to stop. The gates are made of metal pipes placed horizontally on the ground filling the space in the fence. When cattle try and step on the pipes they can't get secure footing and won't try to take a second step and instead backup. Cattle learn to recognize the gate as impassable to them, ranchers paint the pipes white so they stand out and are highly visible to cattle and ranchers alike. Once the cattle are accustomed to the cattle gate they can also be stopped by white lines painted with similar dimensions as they can't differentiate between the two. I'm guessing that the painted version is what's being refereed to in the summary.

      I'm not really sure why the summary is using this as an example. I mean you'd think an AI program recognizing the similar pattern and taking action appropriate to the original stimulus would be a great first step.

  24. Re:What's hard [Re:I wonder how long it will be... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    Learning to make a peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich out of what is in the refrigerator: now that's hard.

    It's also sexual harassment if you ask a woman to do that. http://domainincite.com/20201-...

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  25. chinese room by slew · · Score: 1

    Are you familiar with the Chinese Room argument?

  26. All intelligence is pattern recognition by sjbe · · Score: 2

    Use any definition other than "pattern recognition" and we don't have it.

    So me any form of intelligence that isn't some form of pattern recognition. Hell the entire field of physics and every other science is simply the act of observing patterns and building a model to describe them that has predictive value. At it's most basic form that is just sophisticated pattern recognition.

    1. Re:All intelligence is pattern recognition by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      Hell the entire field of physics and every other science is simply the act of observing patterns and building a model to describe them that has predictive value. At it's most basic form that is just sophisticated pattern recognition.

      That is not even remotely close to true. Modeling is a relatively small component of physics or any field of research. Modeling is essential (which isn't even pattern recognition,) as is pattern recognition, but much more is spent on intuiting what to check for, engineering devices to test those models, communicating and getting feedback from others to further refine models, etc. Pattern matching is a tool, and computers are amazing tools, but they are so ridiculously far from "AI" - by any sane definition of the term - that it is an absurdity to suggest we're even close - even more of an absurdity than to suggest all of science boils down to pattern recognition because at least we know enough about hardware constraints to know for a fact we're nowhere near it, even if we don't have a good enough grasp on the scientific method to have physics cracked yet.

    2. Re:All intelligence is pattern recognition by esonik · · Score: 1

      intuition is pattern recognition
      modelling requires abstraction or essentially requires abstraction
      our current modelling approaches require us to speak a language, either math or a programming language
      abstraction is taking complex patterns and reducing them to simple concepts

      From these, I think "speaking the language" is the most difficult problem. Incidentally, it is also what separates us from animals

    3. Re:All intelligence is pattern recognition by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      None of that is correct, though ironically it looks a lot like "when all you have is a hammer everything's a nail."

  27. Re: Yet by morethanapapercert · · Score: 1
    I agree that the field of computer intelligence is in its infancy and that what we've achieved so far is amazing. And yes; if we look under the hood of current AI in the form of expert systems, machine learning and so on, it doesn't look like intelligence any more, just a very relatively simple machine. As I said further down, what we can achieve right now is the equivalent of a cockroach or lizard. We can duplicate the abilities of the reptilian hind brain and some of the functions of the limbic system, but not consciousness. Self awareness seems to be an emergent property of the complexity of the cerebrum. But the cerebrum is so intertwined with the limbic and brain stem that I don't think any system that tries to replicate the cerebrum alone can become self aware.

    However, I don't think our learning exactly how consciousness arises and how to duplicate it will deprive it entirely of its magic and wonder.

    --
    I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
  28. Mono climate worlds aka Star Wars by burtosis · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Our brains have many different parts each with thier own function(s). It's pretty apparent humans have many simple algorithms running simultaneously, in addition to whatever else happens. So the obvious conclusion that will surprise no one is that a true AI like a human would just have deep learning (or a number of deep learning modules) as a single component among thousands that would be required to get the emergent behavior that is strong AI. The technique is simple, easy to implement, and accomplishes certain simple tasks with ease so it's usefulness as a tool when designing strong AI won't ever go away. There is no magic in our molecules, there is nothing magic about strong AI, it should be obvious a single algorithm won't ever make a strong AI, we and other animals prove it can be done it's just difficult. People need to get over it and realize that when millions of people work together, contributing our results and pooling our knowledge, we can make much of science fiction a reality (hopefully just the better parts).

  29. Re: Yet by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

    What you are saying reminds me of the old discussion of the Artistic Method vs the Scientific Method.

    The artistic method attempts to solve a problem by coming up with a solution, determining if it provides a solution, and if it does not rejecting it and starting over.

    The scientific method attempts to refine its initial solution over many iterations, in order to eventually come up with a solution that works. Only when they hit a point that does not offer any more paths for refinement will they reject the original path.

    Intelligence requires a mix of both methods. Algorithms are stuck in the scientific method without a reset button.

  30. What I've been saying all along: by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    deep learning, now the dominant technique in artificial intelligence, will not lead to an AI that abstractly reasons and generalizes about the world. By itself, it is unlikely to automate ordinary human activities.

    Exactly, precisely this. They can't 'think', and never will. The approach being used is completely wrong, or at least incomplete, because we don't even have a clue how we are capable of 'thinking'.

    1. Re:What I've been saying all along: by lorinc · · Score: 1

      You should check "Neural Turing machine" and "Differentiable neural computer".

    2. Re:What I've been saying all along: by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      I don't see anything about those being 'self aware', 'sentient', capable of 'thinking', or anything similar, it's just another flavor of the same things they keep trotting out.
      I'm just going to keep saying it until it's no longer true: We don't know how our own brains are capable of truly 'thinking' therefore we can't build machines that can do that. All these 'learning algorithms', no matter what you call them, aren't going to suddenly become capable of this; that's 'magical thinking'.

      My best guess is we need another hundred years of research to really understand how our own human brain is capable of consciousness and true cognition, and a big part of the problem is we don't have sufficient instrumentality to observe a living brain in operation at the level we'd need to, to really begin to understand it. Complicating matters is that it has to be a living, fully-functional human being's brain; it's not like it's a machine we can dismantle, analyze, then reassemble and see it work again; dead is dead.

      Meanwhile I'll just have to hope for everyone else's sake that too much trust isn't put into these half-baked machines they keep hypeing as 'AI', because then some real disasters may happen, and if they do then like with nuclear power, people will get so scared off of them that the entire idea may get such a stigma attached to it that no one will touch it with a ten-foot pole.

      What people don't know about me is that I wish we really could develop actual, full-on general 'AI', conscious, thinking, aware, and so on, comparable (or better) than a human brain. They would make great partners for humanity, and maybe even somehow save us from ourselves. But the approach they're using right now is insufficient.

    3. Re:What I've been saying all along: by esonik · · Score: 1

      Maybe we don't need to dissect the living thing while it's working. It might be sufficient to determine our brain's connectome http://www.humanconnectomeproj... then replicate the essential parts as neural network and feed it with data like we do with our kids.

    4. Re:What I've been saying all along: by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      I already addressed that issue; we don't have sufficient instrumentality to do that yet.

  31. Some refuse to learn by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

    Bearing in mind that, ever from the 60s, the AI community has come up, time and again, with exuberant forecasts that never came to pass, it is interesting that some keep issuing equally exuberant forecasts. A human brain emulation by 2020? The Singularity by 2030? Chances are the AI for the foreseeable will be more of the same: more and more systems that a excel at very, very narrow fields.

    1. Re:Some refuse to learn by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

      Forty years ago, AI sucked at speech recognition. Nowadays, it sucks somewhat less. Try to get Google Home or Alexa to understand something nontrivial (or something not canned) and act intelligently on it. Ask them NOT to tell you the weather forecast for tomorrow, and see how intelligently they are. As it currently stands, AI is somewhat useful and fun. However, it will have to do much better to become something really useful. The hype coming from the community does not help.

  32. Re: Yet by NettiWelho · · Score: 1

    Computers don't understand 2+2. They perform the operation by moving electrons from one place to another, ending in a pattern that humans interpret as 4.

    Is there "understanding" if the computer arrives to the conclusion by simulating brains at a physical level using same functions organic brains do?

    I mean human brains are machines, after all and not supernatural by themselves in any way. Just couple magnitudes higher in complexity than what we can currently build

  33. Re: Yet by saloomy · · Score: 1

    Yes, they understand 4. That's why they can emit 4 beeps, use 4 in the operation of a subsequent transaction, and know what is greater than and less than. Your understanding is no better.

  34. Re:Because it's not AI, it's machine learning by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

    I'd love to hear you differentiate the two.

  35. Re: Yet by synaptik · · Score: 1

    Humans don't understand 2+2. They perform the operation by sending electro-chemical impulses from axons to dendrites, ending in a pattern that others interpret as 4.

    --
    HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
    NO CARRIER
  36. Re: Yet by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    I don't need it to be a new artificial Einstein.

    I just want it to do the dishes and the laundry and clean the house.

    The rest I can do myself.

  37. meta AI by schweini · · Score: 1

    The current AI algorithms seem quite good at automatically solving some well defined problem, given enough input and learning cycles.

    Is it really such a stretch of the imagination that we will come up with a more automated way, a sort of meta AI, which will detect if a given problem hasn't been defined yet, and how it may be defined, in order to afterwards pass it on to the learning-through-simulation subsystem?

    One DeepMind guy said that AlphaGo would have utterly failed, if they would have modified the board by adding an extra column, whereas a human would still probably do okay-ish. So I am guessing that some meta-algorithm will be developed to detect such a modification, and then adjust the underlying subsystems accordingly.
    Same with all the stated situations that self-driving cars seem to suck at currently (snow, construction sites, Tesla crashes). Right now, it seems that researches have to explicitly add the programming for these unforseen situations. But I bet this part will be automated, too: when the Tesla crashed into that trailer it didn't 'see', it should automatically detect that it messed up (crash is bad), and re-evaluate all previous sensor data to come up with a solution that would not have ended with a crash, and adjust its NN weights accordingly. This doesn't seem too much of a stretch in light of AlphaZero, and might very well lead to exponential AI 'cleverness'.

  38. Re:Its only as good as its programming by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

    AI isn't really intelligence

    No true scotsman.

    Its knowledge based on what is in its data base.

    Yes, just like yours. And just like you, they can add to their knowledge.

    Hardly any of it is considered really deep self learning other then some programmed learning abilities.

    Yes, those parts are what we call AI.

    But then again, people get excited about Space X launching a rocket that was done back in the 60's and 70's? Will AI hit a brick wall as well?

    The DC-X was flown in the 90's. It ran out of funding after it's last launch caused damage. And just like the gap with VTVL, AI research had a couple of winters and the hype train is once again going strong.

    But the cycle of hype and the resulting disillusionment doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. The field has progressed and the capabilities of AI have expanded.

    bloody cowards.

  39. Re: Yet by nonBORG · · Score: 1

    Computers do not have any ability to understand. any more than a basket caring 2 cans with another 2 cans added understands that it has 4 cans. The computer and the basket have no consciousness or ability to understand. Being able to state 4 is the answer is different from understanding 4. Some interesting facts about 4 can be stated by a computer it may have more information about the number 4 than a person but still it has zero understanding.

    --
    You can't handle the truth! - Because I don't post left all my comments get modded down, bye bye Karma.
  40. Deep learning is more than classification by Kjella · · Score: 1

    The key to deep learning neural networks is being able to simulate the performance, because it doesn't have a causal model that we would use to predict an outcome or weed out spurious correlations. That is to say it can't hold a million simulated conversations with a human figuring out what works and what doesn't. But it can do that with physics and other STEM branches, like it can play a driving simulator or the kerbal space program. And it can come up with new concepts within those constraints. I watched a documentary on AlphaGo not that long ago, and if you watch the expert reaction to move 37 in game 2 it's like WTF!? and unlike say Deep Blue it's not just the computer thinking even deeper than humans. It's basically going its own way and making a move no human would make. It's a double standard where for a human it would be novel and creative, for an AI it's just the result of an algorithm.

    That has a lot of potential for say Rube Goldberg machines, like you give the computer a set of tools and basically says you figure out how these could be combined to achieve some sort of goal. It's a bit like giving the computer a toolbox and saying build me a house and it'll figure out what tools to use in which order to reach the end goal. The problem has been in building simulations that are sufficiently accurate that they can be applied in the real world and actually work like in the simulation. A lot of people here commented on how the Falcon Heavy launch performed pretty much exactly like in the CGI simulation. And Musk commented on it too in the press conference, it was a validation of their ability to design rockets through computer simulations. If it can be simulated, you can throw a DNN at it and ask it to optimize "the game". And that game has pretty serious real world implications.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  41. Re: Yet by asylumx · · Score: 1

    Well, for one, thing, in their 'minds' they see 10 + 10 = 100.

  42. Re:What's hard [Re:I wonder how long it will be... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Computers have no cognition.
    That is nonsense.
    Every most stupid neural network "program" is trained to "recognize".
    And the programmer did _nothing_
    Every NN is basically an off the shelf empty brain, working the same way as any other empty brain, in other words: nothing at all. Only after training it does what it does: recognize stuff. Aka: performing "cognition".

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  43. Re: Yet by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

    A lot of mathematicians would say if you haven't studied ZF set theory, you don't understand 2+2 either. And if you have studied it, you know it describes addition as a process of algorithmic symbol manipulation. Exactly the sort of thing computers are great at.

    Maybe the main difference is that humans delude themselves into thinking they "understand" things when really they're just following rules. Computers don't have that problem. So which is more intelligent?

    --
    "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
  44. Re:Its only as good as its programming by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    Oh for crying out loud, stop using the true scotsman fallacy in this case. The fallacy requires a person to make a subjective statement that nothing applies to. If you don't like the definition of 'intelligence' being used then say so, but this isn't no true scotsman. As far as I know, intelligence means ability to gather knowledge through external experience, which is a hard and fast definition that can either apply to 'AI' or not. For an 'AI' to truly be intelligent at playing Go, it needs to start with a seed and be shown instructions to Go and learn how to play from that. If someone programmed the rules for Go into it, then it has not learned to play through intelligence. The same 'seed' should also similarly be able to learn to play chess, do s crossword, or identify animals. Intelligence implies a certain amount of general purpose ability, since there are no bounds in the definition for the number of things you use knowledge for in order to be intelligent. This is why a human savant that can't talk or understand anything about life but playing Go or Chess is not called 'intelligent'.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  45. Re: Yet by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

    Here, the current 'AI' craze doesn't even in theory extrapolate to higher-order displays of intelligence.

    I'd love to see the theory that claim is based on. I've never heard of any theory of "higher-order" intelligence (whatever that means) that tells us the current approach won't scale. If you're going to make claims about what is or isn't possible "in theory", those claims need to be based on an actual theory. Otherwise, it's empty rhetoric.

    Many AI researchers believe the current approach can and probably will ultimately lead to human like intelligence. They reason like this. Humans have human like intelligence. We don't understand the details of how it works, but we're learning more all the time. Current approaches to AI are inspired by how the brain works. We're making really fast progress at it. And as we learn more about the brain, we can apply those new insights to AI too.

    This gives us a pretty clear road that, if followed to the end, has a good chance of producing human like intelligence. We can't see to the end of the road yet. We can just see to the next bend. But that's ok, we don't need to. We'll just follow it one bend at a time and it'll get us there eventually.

    --
    "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
  46. Re:Its only as good as its programming by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

    I don't like YOUR definition of intelligence. Not enough haggis.

    As far as I know, intelligence means ability to gather knowledge through external experience

    What, so a webcrawler is intelligent? It "gathers knowledge".

    I'd typically just boil it down to "learning".

    For an 'AI' to truly be intelligent at playing Go, it needs to start with a seed and be shown instructions to Go and learn how to play from that.

    Keep up with the times grandpa. That's exactly what they did. No learning sets needed.

    if someone programmed the rules for Go into it, then it has not learned to play through intelligence.

    You need to better differentiation what you mean by "Shown instructions" and "programmed the rules".

    The same 'seed' should also similarly be able to learn to play chess, do s crossword, or identify animals.

    You have no idea what a "seed" is do you? It's just some nebulous term you've got rumbling around in your head that's pseudo-magical.

    Anyway, the closest thing would be their method of machine learning. Which, for the link above which talks about DeepMind Alpha, it uses neural network and reinforcement learning. YEEEEESSSSSSS it self-taught go, chess and shogi. "The seed" is what DeepMind Alpha is. It's the tool that can learn things. That's the intelligence part. THE SAME TECHNIQUE is also used for object recognition. Hell, I dunno, maybe they could get deepMind to recognize pictures of cats.

    Intelligence implies a certain amount of general purpose ability,

    No, but general intelligence would be a lot cooler than specific, niche, narrow intelligence.

    This is why a human savant that can't talk or understand anything about life but playing Go or Chess is not called 'intelligent'.

    Wow, fuck you too dude. Most geeks are just some fraction of autistic savant. I know I'm better at math than English. If you're going to define my intelligence by my weakest link, then I'm going to call you an idiot for your ignorance on the current state of AI.

  47. not your father's symbolism by epine · · Score: 1

    Regardless of the limitations of backprop, the traditional logic-based approach will never fully recover from the blow of discovering distributed representation.

  48. Re:"unlikely to automate ordinary human activities by esonik · · Score: 1
  49. Re: Yet by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

    Mobile goalpost. Exactly.

    When we know how to do it with software, it quits being AI, and starts being called by the name of the specific method of doing that thing.

    Usually.

    Some years back somebody designed an antenna with a certain characteristic, using a genetic algorithm. (I don't recall the characteristics sought. Omnidirectionality. Effectiveness over a wide range of frequencies. Whatever.) The genetic algorithm generated a bunch of semi-random designs, simulated the performance of each, culled out the worst, then generated a new set of semi-random designs from parts of the survivors to start the cycle over again. When the best design in a generation was good enough, it stopped.

    The electrical engineers built an actual antenna according to the best design. It worked very well. And when they studied at the design -- which, if I recall correctly, looked like a randomly twisted paperclip -- they didn't really understand how it worked. (If I don't recall it correctly, the target may have been some sort of electrical circuit -- amplifier, low-pass filter, etc -- and the screwball designs were agglomerations of resistors, capacitors, etc., semi-randomly picked and connected.)

    Was that genetic algorithm "AI"? If it could design other things, reliably, that'd be cool. That I haven't heard anything more about it, it might be a "one hit wonder", barely more successful than the Rolamite or the Rovac. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rola... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rova...

    Evolution produced ball-and-socket joints, which work in an obvious way. It also produced wrist and ankle joints, which just look like a jumble of odd-shaped rocks that more or less fit together. But somehow, they work.

    --
    There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.