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Tesla Burns Through $2 Billion In 2017 (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Tesla reported record revenue for 2017, floated by customer deposits of the recently announced Semi truck and Roadster sports car. Despite its optimistic sales numbers, Model 3 production issues and cash flow problems haunt the company, but Tesla insists its on track to meet its production goals of 5,000 cars a week by mid-2018. Tesla reported $3.3 billion in revenue, which was expected, but also posted a $771 million quarterly loss -- its largest quarterly loss ever. The company reported a negative free cash flow of $276.7 million. And it reported a net loss of $2.24 billion in 2017, a significant increase over the $773 million net loss it reported in 2016.
I don't care!
You gotta do things in order to get things done.
You gotta spend money to make money.
Except if you spend too much money and don't get enough results, bankruptcy for you. It doesn't matter how good your idea is or if it's going to change the world for the better. In most of the world, it only matters whether it can achieve ROI and there are constraints in the form of how much VC a firm is willing to put into your company before they don't think you're going to do anything else other than throw them under a bus.
We'll make great pets
Inb4 all the comments of Telsa being a failure for the amount of money they are losing. But, in reality, that money isn't a loss. It is investment. Look how long Amazon lasted before they turned their first profit.
Or at least an electric scooter. Come on, Tesla! Gimme something here.
So far, Tesla has produced enough so that people are eager to throw money at it. No problem raising funds.
They are making cars and have plans for new models and trucks and energy storage and solar panels and roofs. That takes money. As long as they deliver, they can continue to raise money to grow. If they stopped spending on new stuff today, they would be profitable but wouldn't have much of a future.
It took Amazon years to become profitable and now Bezos is world's richest man.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Maybe you can arrange to be the driver of the next Tesla to go into space.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
People don't mind tossing their money into the Tesla furnace because it offers hope in the future in terms of real social value, as opposed to financial numbers value. They are the only public facing company making any significant efforts toward a better future.
Everybody's taking a loss in 2017 and posting profits in 2018 to take advantage of the tax changes.
I don't respond to AC's.
Tesla reported record revenue for 2017, floated by customer deposits
Deposits are liabilities. They only turn into revenue when you deliver whatever it was the deposit was for.
Agreed. However, that does not mean that there is not a considerable risk attached to this approach too. One serious failure and it could all come crashing down. This is a high risk, high reward strategy with the added benefit that Tesla is producing potentially revolutionary products so even if they fail it will likely have long lasting benefits for society...and today there are sadly very few companies you can say that about.
Meh.
They invest what they have in a measured fashion to realize their plan. If they hit their stride on the Model 3 by the end of Q2, they should generate positive free cash flow at a minimum. At which point, they will likely invest in a ramp-up of the Model Y, which is expected to require an assembly line in China... and consume significant cash.
If I found anything disappointing in their financials, it was the fact that the energy business isn't doing as well as I would hope-- especially on the energy storage side. It looks like the windfarm battery plant in South Australia accounted for 60%+ of that revenue. I guess the other concern is the fact that sales/manufacturing of the S and X will be constrained by availability of the 18650 cells to 100k units.
Tesla is really going places in 2018.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
They are the only public facing company making any significant efforts toward a better future.
Wow, what a cynical (and unsupported) opinion.
Your comment is completely useful - not. Hyperbole aside, some people actually feel like Tesla is the only company building for a better future.
Why is Tesla the only such beneficent or visionary company? It can't be because they build electric cars, batteries, solar systems, spacecraft, or other leading-edge technologies because they're not the only such company. It can't be because they treat their employees better than other companies because numbers such as salaries and benefits and other new articles don't seem to support that idea. Maybe the reason is that Elon Musk has Steve Jobs magic fairy dust and is the fount of innovation?
Seriously, I like Tesla. I think they're doing some interesting things. I think Elon Musk has tried some visionary things. Time will tell whether those efforts impact society in a significant and positive way. That they are the only well-intentioned company in existence seems hard to substantiate.
The fact is, that Tesla lost LESS than what the markets had been expecting for some time.
And as has been pointed out, that once they are somewhere between 4000 to 5000 cars per week, they will be in the GAAP black.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
His personal tesla was launched into space, because SPACEX had to launch some weight. This was cooler than simply putting in lead.
Solar CIty was doing fine, except towards the end, a number of companies were targeting SC. And now, SC, who has 1/3 of the installation, will be back to do so.
Huh. Tesla sold a product at a profit that has now saved Aus. state gov millions of $. As such, nearly all of the Aussie states want to work with Tesla so that all make money. And yes, Tesla made money on that contract.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
And that same Australian government that commissioned the battery has now commissioned solar roofing for 50,000 houses from Tesla. No more free batteries required either after the first, now it's order taking and (you'd expect) profit making for that part of the Tesla group.
Pick a brand. Now google phrases like "problems with my X" or "problems with my new X", where X is the brand. You'll find tons and tons of pages of people complaining about it. And of course you will, because you're deliberately imparting selection bias to your search.
It's amazing the difference I see reading these "Tesla build quality is terrible!" articles / vids people share, versus the reports over on the Model 3 forum of random people documenting their delivery processes as they happen and going over their car with a fine-toothed comb afterwards. From the former, you'd think that they're held together by gaffer tape and carpenter's glue. From the latter, it's nothing even remotely resembling that.
There is a measurement of how satisfied customers are with their cars overall, and that's... wait for it... customer satisfaction. If you don't want a statistical bias, that's your measure. And of course, Consumer Reports tracks it. Guess what? Tesla is almost always at the top of the list. The question you should be asking yourself is not "Why are 10% of Tesla owners unsatisfied", it's "Why are 38% of BMW owners unsatisfied"? "Why are 24% of Audi owners unsatisfied?" "Why are 30% of Lexus owners unsatisfied?" "Why are 40% of Infiniti owners unsatisfied?" "Why are 36% of Cadillac owners unsatisfied?" Etc. And it's worth pointing out that most Tesla customers came from other luxury brands.
Re your "no safe exit from the back" remark:
1) Model 3 unlocks the doors automatically in the event of an accident. P. 33 of the manual. Listed in the crash events alongside the airbags going off, hazard lights going on, interior lights going on, and HV disabled. Note that it takes 12V to trigger the airbags as well, so if your airbags are going off, your rear doors are getting unlocked.
2) Depending on how the rear latch mechanism works (I don't know this), it may well *default* to unlatched upon loss of 12V. Has anyone actually checked what type of electronc latch it has? (or for that matter, checked for an emergency release under trim, like the X)? I'd wager it probably stays latched, but without checking, it's not something you can flatly assert.
3) Even if it did not auto-unlock, even if it did not passive fail to unlocked... how would it be any worse than a coupe? How would it be any worse than child safety locks on most cars (most cars, not Teslas - child safety locks are disabled in the event of an accident in a Tesla)? Where is your doom-and-gloom public safety campaign against coupes and child safety locks?
Funny, because for me finding a panel gap on a Tesla has been somewhat of a unicorn. I keep hearing about this supposed problem of widespread panel gaps, and yet I'm yet to find one in real life - despite trying. I don't doubt that they exist somewhere, but as of yet? I'll keep hunting for them ;)
FYI, Consumer Reports ranks the current Model S as "above average" reliability.
It's time for Operation Crazy Plan.
Let's parse.
So you start off by pretending that SpaceX and Tesla are the same company. Clever move! What is this "government support"?
Wow, OMG, a state government gave financial incentives for a large company to build a factory in their state. This has never happened before in the history of business! Except bloody always, but apart from that, OMG!
Stop the presses again!
That's nearly half of the $4,9B in the article, and it's just your standard "incentives to get a large company to move to your state" game that all large companies play.
All solar installers received this; it is nothing SolarCity specific. You could start a solar installation company yourself today and receive tax credits.
Same story. The other automakers wouldn't have sold credits had they actually made the ZEVs that the legislation was intended to make them produce. And any automaker could get the credits.
Meanwhile, everyone shoulders the huge financial costs of air pollution from fossil fuel power (the healthcare costs alone from the worst coal plants can be up to 45 cents per kWh). But I know you want to slap down renewables with everything and give fossil fuels a pass for everything, so let's keep going!
Oh, so now we're taking in subsidies to consumers and pretending that they're subsidies to SolarCity? Clever girl! But okay!
But wait, that article was just for $4,9B (and that includes SpaceX). Where did your other $3B come from? Oh right, this:
So we can now play the game where we pretend that Tesla gets all of that! But of course, we know that there are other other EV manufacturers; again, any company cam make EVs and get incentives. But let's go with it. How much money does Tesla
It's time for Operation Crazy Plan.