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Budget Deal Has Tax Credit Extensions For Nuclear, Fuel Cells, Carbon Capture (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: A two-year budget deal was approved by the House and the Senate this morning and signed by President Trump a few hours later. The budget (PDF) included a slew of tax credit extensions that will affect how the energy industry plans its next two years. Most notably, the deal extended a $0.018 per-kWh credit for nuclear power plants over 6,000MW -- a tax credit that is primarily going to benefit one project in the US. That project is the construction of two new reactors at the Georgia Vogtle nuclear power plant.

Interestingly, a bipartisan effort to increase and extend tax credits for carbon sequestration passed through this budget. The bill was pushed through by Senators Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.), Shelley Moore Capito (R-W.V.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), and John Barrasso (R-Wyo.). The bill would offer a tax credit per ton of carbon dioxide that is captured and either sequestered, used for another end product, or used for enhanced oil recovery. The credit applies to any facility that started carbon capture construction within the past seven years, and the credit extends for 12 years.

While the budget deal leaves the federal tax credit scheme for electric vehicles unchanged (automakers can still entice buyers with a $7,500 credit for the first 200,000 electric vehicles that roll off that automaker's line), the budget did include and extend some interesting tax credits for other kinds of non-traditional energy. Fuel cell vehicles saw an extension of tax credits that will allow purchasers of new cars a tax credit of between $4,000 and $40,000, depending on the weight of the vehicle (this is probably good news for potential customers of Nikola's in-development fuel-cell semis). Non-hydrogen alternative fuel infrastructure also scored, as the new budget lets installers of infrastructure for alternative fuels like biodiesel and natural gas deduct 30 percent of the cost of installing the new pumps. Two-wheeled electric vehicle buyers will also see a 10-percent credit extended (though that credit has a $2,500 cap). Per-gallon biodiesel and renewable diesel credits that expired at the end of 2017 will continue.

41 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Gets all the negativity when he signs a bill the left hates, but receives 0 credit for signing a bill the left praises.

    1. Re: Trump by blindseer · · Score: 1

      I agree. We need to keep Trump in office. If lower taxes, an improved economy, and lower unemployment is the result of him drinking Diet Coke and coloring with crayons then keep him there. Then when his second term is up then we need another do nothing idiot. Perhaps an idiot with better tastes in soft drinks, but whatever. At least he doesn't drink Bud Light like the last POTUS.

      Can we get a POTUS that just likes coffee with a little cream and sugar? Or even just black coffee? I guess either choice would be considered racist or something.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    2. Re:Trump by Barsteward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      he hasn't earned it yet but he is using the german national party's tactic of making the small minded fear immigrants and non-native people by saying they are to blame for all the problems - that was their first baby steps into becoming the Nazis

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    3. Re: Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So said the economically ignorant socialist millennial. Thank you for your useless input based on nothing.

    4. Re: Trump by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      This budget is going to make it nigh impossible for all three of those points to be true in 10 years.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    5. Re: Trump by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      I give him credit for being mostly inactive during this round.

      And that's almost certainly how this one came about, Trump had little to no idea what it was he was signing, he just had something put in front of him on his tiny little table and got to scribble on it with his crayon. Don't credit Trump for anything in there, credit everyone else for slipping whatever they wanted in there for Trump to rubberstamp.

      Speaking of which, what else did he sign into law without reading it? What booby-traps are hidden in there?

    6. Re: Trump by darthsilun · · Score: 1

      You don't have to be a Nazi to enforce the laws that are already on the books.

      OTOH demonizing immigrants is one hallmark of a Nazi.

      Having your brownshirts beat the crap out of people at your rallies is another.

    7. Re: Trump by blindseer · · Score: 1

      More jobs were added to the US economy in Obama's first year than Trump's.

      I'm sure that was Bush's fault.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    8. Re: Trump by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Last I checked American universities seemed to be in the business of having gay men say a bunch of stupid stuff in front of college students. They'll even give you a degree if you do it often enough.

      They aren't ALL gay men. Some of them are bisexuals, lesbians, and transsexuals. Like Prof. McCloskey.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      I remember his/her name because it was mentioned as an author to a paper one of my instructors recommended that we read, which happened to be about the same time he/she was interviewed on The Rubin Report. Prof. McCloskey taught in a handful of schools in the Midwest, including Iowa.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    9. Re: Trump by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      ROFL...

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    10. Re:Trump by Ferretman · · Score: 1

      > The left praises? Hardly. He's a Nazi. When he does something that's nominally > good (by accident) it doesn't offset the fact that he's a Nazi. I'm sure this will get > voted down, but honestly, the sooner you Trumptards acknowledge the fact that > he's a Nazi, the better off we'll be.

      You seem to be angry...are you angry? I think you're angry.

      All the Nazis are on the Left; Soros (the darling of the Left) is an actual, bonafide, Hitler-loving Nazi.

      Need to look in the mirror dude. And stop being so angry all the time!

      Ferret

      --
      Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
  2. Nuclear credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, will the nuclear credit cover the billions of dollars of cost in regulatory and judicial delays to nuclear construction? Nuclear is competitive; malicious politics is very expensive.

    1. Re:Nuclear credit by blindseer · · Score: 1

      I suspect the USA will have cheap and plentiful nuclear energy about one year after China or Russia does.

      It used to be that the USA yearned to be first and best in everything, now it just doesn't want to end up in third place. What happened? Why is second place good enough?

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  3. so planting trees gets us tax credit by elcor · · Score: 1

    not bad, what's the ##

    1. Re:so planting trees gets us tax credit by ClickOnThis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      not bad, what's the ##

      What's the ... catch?

      Reforestation is important, not just to capture carbon but also to replace trees lost to logging, development, fires, disease, and pests.

      The catch is that trees take a long time to grow. So they are only part of the solution to all of the above. Managing existing forests carefully has to be considered also.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    2. Re:so planting trees gets us tax credit by pubwvj · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not just planting trees but also growing them and harvesting them - in other words sustainable forestry.

      Even better than trees, in terms of carbon sequestering, is pasture. Pasture sucks up far more carbon than forest and then our livestock turns that biomass (grass, clover, etc) into delicious meat. Green eggs and ham. This too is carbon sequestering.

      Those are both part of what we do on our farm but I doubt that there will be any tax benefit.

  4. What do they have against solar/wind power? by RyanFenton · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Carbon capture? Really? As in the fig leaf that defines 'clean coal'?

    I understand that the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good - but the whole clean coal thing mostly marketing for essentially free-wheeling carbon spewing, rather than an actual process to prevent environmental degredation.

    It's like one of those phone calls for police/firefighter funerals - that when asked only give "up to" 15% of their take to their cause - they're PRETENDING to give to something you want to help, eating up all the good will that should be going to something the public wants to help, consuming that good will while the actual cause withers.

    Sure - carbon capture can take a small percentage off of some effects of carbon spewing - but it only exists to pretend that you're doing something about a fundamentally wrong approach for our shared efforts as humans. It's basically the opposite of actually doing anything for the environment and the future of humanity - a fig leaf instead of clothing.

    Ryan Fenton

    1. Re:What do they have against solar/wind power? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Because you don't understand the chemistry of a simple Bosch Reaction?

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:What do they have against solar/wind power? by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wind and Solar require that you place them in either exactly right area, or have high-uptime year round. Hell you can look in California and Texas over the last 40 years and find millions of dead solar farms and wind farms. They don't survive here because we already have cheap energy. In most cases they require massive subsidies in order to operate as well. North America is resource rich, very resource rich. It is cheaper to build a dam, and flood thousands of KM of land then it is to build windmills in mountain passes. Use the coal in the ground, build nuclear power plants well anywhere, lots of places to do that even in Western Canada.

      Keep this in mind, because I'll now explain what drives people against green energy. In Ontario(again very resource rich), the government believed that handing huge tax breaks and giving massive payouts to get these things off the ground was a great idea. So to be viable, you could see rates where they were paid by the IESO upwards of $1.50kWh, most were in the $0.70-0.90kWh range. It broke the market. The price for electricity before they started paying these companies and microfits money hand over fist was around $0.09kWh at peak, off-peak $0.035-0.068kWh. 10 years later the peak because the entire province(mainly non-businesses) now pay $0.185kWh. The price that is still paid to these green energy boondongles is still in the $0.30-0.76kWh range.

      This is what happened: Electricity rates are so high, that the government had to put into law that winter disconnection wasn't allowed. It does get down to -35C here most winters. Then there's the stories like this: The system is so broken because of green energy that people are making the "roof vs heat" choice. This is what happens when extreme poverty and high electricity prices collide(2016/2017) and the charities which pay for heating ran out of money in December of 2016. Most charities got more money this year, but again most will run out of funding by February. That still leaves, March and April, and possibly May(it can get as cold as -10C even here in Southern Ontario as late as May 24th - which most people consider the actual end of winter, it can also be 27C enjoy Canada yet?).

      Ontario is interesting, because the government is very anti-industrial anything. Their entire economic policy was based on driving businesses out of the province and pushing 'service' jobs. So now you have people working 2-3 sometimes 4 PT-jobs to make ends meet, in a family that that's both parents working 3PT jobs and barely making ends meet in most of the province. Now, toss in those 30k illegals from the US? This is where it gets fun, because those people who couldn't even work or afford housing were being thrown out of low-income housing to put illegals up in them. FYI the average wait-time in most of Ontario for low-income housing is between 4 and 8 years.

      And I'm sure someone is going to go, hur-dur it's all them conservatives fault. Sorry guys, this is 100% right on the Liberal Party of Ontario which has been in power since the early 00's.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re:What do they have against solar/wind power? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We overproduce electricity by as much as 66% if you look at an energy flow diagram https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/co... you see that 25 quads were rejected out of 38 quads of electricity generated. Yet transmission loss is on the order of 5%. The rest of the rejected energy is overproduced.

      In Washington they turn off windfarms and Microsoft wastes energy to meet its wholesale quota. We should be paid to use electricity.

    4. Re:What do they have against solar/wind power? by blindseer · · Score: 2

      I remember a prominent figure in nuclear power saying once, "If we can't be as cheap as coal then why bother?" That was Leslie Dewan, as I recall, though she may not have come up with it first.

      I'll hear the claim that wind and solar are as cheap as coal. Assuming that is true then what of the storage needed to make it reliable? If wind and solar cannot be as reliable as coal then why bother?

      Also, do you believe that storage technology will allow wind and solar to compete? I have my doubts. A common complaint of nuclear power is that it cannot respond to shifting demands quickly enough and that if there is a problem at the nuclear power plant then they will need on site power for things like pumps, computers, sensors, lights, and so on. What better way to address this than a big battery? That was what allowed the nuclear reactors at Fukushima to melt down, the backup batteries ran down and they were rendered blind on what was actually happening in the containment building. The reactor containment survived the tsunami. It's quite possible the reactor was damaged to the point it could not produce power again but they had cooling for the reactors but no power to run the pumps.

      Still not convinced? What of natural gas? We could cut in half the CO2 output from coal boiler power plants by replacing them with natural gas boilers. This has the same problem of the nuclear power plant though, it can't shift power output quickly enough to match usage. This means burning natural gas in less efficient turbines or.... having storage. That big battery in Australia performed superbly to keep the electric grid stable when they had that coal plant shut down unexpectedly, so this storage technology is highly useful for every energy source, even coal.

      This storage will cost money. For wind and solar to be cheaper than coal then the costs of the storage as part of the system needs to be included. This need for storage is "conveniently" left out on the claims that wind and solar being cheaper than coal. If wind and solar were honestly cheaper than coal then the combinations of market forces and public relations would be more than enough to shut down every coal plant overnight and see them replaced with wind and solar.

      You know what? Maybe you are correct, this is all about money for special interests. The government is just rolling out pork to prop up legacy energy because wind, solar, and storage are so wonderfully successful that they don't need any government hand outs. Shouldn't that make you happy?

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    5. Re:What do they have against solar/wind power? by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      Because you don't understand the chemistry of a simple Bosch Reaction?

      Everything I did in chem lab turned into a Botched Reaction. Course, everything I did in woodworking turned into sawdust. I got into software development because that and politics were the only options left where repeated failure was acceptable. I wasn't rich enough to be a politician.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    6. Re:What do they have against solar/wind power? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We overproduce electricity by as much as 66% if you look at an energy flow diagram https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/co... you see that 25 quads were rejected out of 38 quads of electricity generated. Yet transmission loss is on the order of 5%. The rest of the rejected energy is overproduced.

      In Washington they turn off windfarms and Microsoft wastes energy to meet its wholesale quota. We should be paid to use electricity.

      Uh, no. You don't understand the chart you linked to.
      Rejected energy is NOT overproduction of electricity generated.
      Rejected energy, in the chart you referred to, is mostly energy lost due to thermodynamic cycle efficiencies and heat loss due to design limitations. Think Carnot cycle, Rankine cycle, etc.
      This has nothing to do with the periods of overproduction in wind farms (or solar).

    7. Re:What do they have against solar/wind power? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I understand that the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good

      Before you can make that claim you need to consider if carbon capture can even be classified as "good". Outside of a small pilot here and there there's yet to be anything substantial to show this is even workable.

      What there has been is the promise of carbon capture in return for government funding and subsidies then bankrupt projects that make away with billions leaving the stock standard but brand spanking new dirty coal in their wake.

      Example: https://nextcity.org/features/...

    8. Re:What do they have against solar/wind power? by Reziac · · Score: 1

      One problem with service jobs, aside from their dead-end (and frequently part-time or seasonal) nature, is that they require *other* people to have disposable income before you even HAVE service jobs. Once you're topheavy with service jobs, or when the economy takes a downturn, where does the money come from??

      As to wind power, earlier today I tripped over this interesting set of charts:

      https://stopthesethings.com/20...

      Last winter I spoke to someone in Ontario whose home was blessed with electric heat. Their monthly power bill had, in a single season, spiked from $100/mo. to almost $700/mo. Affordable, renewable power!

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  5. The budget includes everything anyone asked for by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3, Informative

    E.g. there's a shitload of extra cash for the military

    https://www.politico.com/story...

    Friday's pact, signed by President Donald Trump, adds $165 billion to the Pentagon budget over two years. That means the military will receive at least $1.4 trillion in total through September 2019 to help buy more fighter planes, ships and other equipment, boost the size of the ranks, and beef up training - a level of funding that seemed a long shot just months ago.

    Senate Armed Services Chairman John McCain (R-Ariz.), who has long pushed for a $700 billion annual budget for the military, said in a statement that the agreement finally gives the Pentagon the "budget certainty it needs to begin the process of rebuilding the military."

    "The deal is a huge win for defense hawks," said Mackenzie Eaglen of the American Enterprise Institute. "The groundwork was being laid for years culminating in what I predict will be the peak year of defense spending since the last peak in 2010."

    Basically the deal is that everyone gets what they want and the deficit goes through the stratosphere. GO USA!

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    1. Re:The budget includes everything anyone asked for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And Rand Paul is considered an extremist for opposing it.

    2. Re:The budget includes everything anyone asked for by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Basically the deal is that everyone gets what they want and the deficit goes through the stratosphere. GO USA!

      So kind of like 2009, except for the everybody part?

    3. Re:The budget includes everything anyone asked for by stabiesoft · · Score: 4, Insightful

      one difference, in 09 we were on the verge of a collapse like the great depression. Now we are in moderate economic growth. During times like these is when you should start to prepare for the next downturn by reducing debt, not increasing it.

    4. Re:The budget includes everything anyone asked for by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      No, it is like 1980s, and all of 2000, until O put a stop to it ( and then allowed it again in his last year; he turned GOP for his last year).

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    5. Re:The budget includes everything anyone asked for by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      cool.
      So, please list us the bills that O did, that increased the debt by $10Trillion.
      U can not. The reason is that most of that was done by the GOP under W and then the GOP refused to make cuts like we needed.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  6. Re:Nikola--what? by Rei · · Score: 1

    That's perfectly normal usage. It's weird that you'd focus on that aspect and not on the fact that Nikola is a company running purely on hype and without anywhere near the funding to achieve what they want to, nor the fact that none of their numbers actually add up. Or the fact that they keep changing their business model once or twice a year.

    --
    It's time for Operation Crazy Plan.
  7. Or LA Gets Oxygen/Water/Graphite factories by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

    That Carbon Sequester tax credit could very well be a major environmental solution for Los Angeles. Take sea water, use electrolysis to get oxygen and hydrogen. Bottle the oxygen for medical purposes. Add smog to the hydrogen, use the Bosch process to create water and bulk graphite. Sell the bulk graphite for pencils or whatever, gather the distilled water and sell it for filling swimming pools.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:Or LA Gets Oxygen/Water/Graphite factories by blindseer · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Where do we get the power for these processes? That's where the nuclear power credit comes in. Too bad California has declared itself a "nuclear free zone". It seems a bunch of idiots in California have equated nuclear power with nuclear weapons, and somehow that nuclear weapons are bad.

      I wonder where how they think nuclear weapons are bad? I mean North Korea is developing nuclear weapons as a means to defend itself against nuclear weapon owning USA. I ask, does anything think that if the USA launched all it's nuclear weapons into the sun that North Korea would stop developing nuclear weapons? Obviously not. Nuclear weapons are a genie that can't be put back in the bottle. We can't wish them away.

      If we are going to survive then that means nuclear power for clean air, and cheap energy. If we are going to keep idiots in North Korea and the rest of the world from taking it from us, or destroying it because they can't get it, then we need to have the ability to plausibly scour them from the surface of the planet. We are afforded the luxury to speak softly only so long as we have a big stick.

      Those idiots in LA can protest nuclear power because we have nuclear powered "big sticks" like this one:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    2. Re:Or LA Gets Oxygen/Water/Graphite factories by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Given the process, tidal generators would make a bit more sense than nuclear. (if you're sucking up seawater anyway for electrolysis, it's nothing to sequester a bit more in your tidal pool then add turbines on the outflow).

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  8. Re:Deficit spending should be illegal.- and GOP sa by blindseer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If Democrats cared about the environment they'd have kicked Carter in the balls for holding up nuclear power. The Democrats have held up nuclear power since Carter signed the law that created the Department of Energy. They spent all this money on a cabinet level department to solve our energy problems and we've not seen a new nuclear power plant in 40 years.

    If the issue is energy independence, clean air and water, and reducing our carbon dioxide output then they've failed miserably. This is because of the Democrats. They complain about not having a place to put nuclear waste and when a place is found and construction starts the Democrats pull out the rug from under its feet.

    Which also gets to the wasteful spending from the Democrats. They'll "create jobs" and "build infrastructure" on a nuclear waste site but when it comes time to actually put nuclear waste there then everyone is fired, the site abandoned, and we have nothing to show for all that money spent.

    I don't like the Republicans, but the Democrats are no angels either. The Democrats had a hand in deficit spending too, like building roads to a nuclear waste site they had no intention on allowing to actually hold nuclear waste.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  9. There is a huge difference by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Republican keep harping that they are for reducing the debt and deficit, when they are not in power - you don't seem democrat making that point one of their campaigning point. But republican are are in power it is deficit & debt glutony all over. That is the hypocrisy Rand Paul as speaking about a few days ago.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  10. Re:Nikola--what? by SirSlud · · Score: 1

    "If true, this could double Nike's profits in 2 years."

    To you, this is an abuse of English? Methinks you're perhaps overestimating your authority on the subject.

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
  11. Just what we don't need by mspohr · · Score: 1, Insightful

    These are all subsidies that go to big business and they are obsolete, ineffective technologies.

    Nuclear just keeps getting more expensive. It's more expensive than coal, gas, solar, wind, geothermal, etc. It's inflexible and has nasty waste problems. The only people who like it are the big utilities since it lets them raise electricity rates.

    Fuel cells are fool cells. The most inefficient way to generate electricity. There are no natural stores of H2 so you have to generate it using natural gas (good for fossil fuel companies) or electricity (very expensive). By the time you go through the whole generate H2, compress it, ship it, run it through a fuel cell you only get about 20% efficiency. Complete waste.

    Carbon capture is the wet dream of coal companies and other fossil fuel companies. "Clean coal" doesn't exist. It has never worked. It will always be too expensive for anything but a pilot plant. Waste of money and an excuse to burn more fossil fuels.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    1. Re: Just what we don't need by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Don't spend money on these obsolete technologies.
      Spend money on solar, wind and storage.
      Is that clear?

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  12. Solar/Wind subsidies are still there by tomhath · · Score: 1

    This puts back credits for a couple of things that Obama cut (nuke, fuel cells, etc.). It doesn't remove the subsidies that solar and wind need to stay in business.