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How Delivery Apps May Put Your Favorite Restaurant Out of Business (newyorker.com)

In a piece this month, The New Yorker argues that online food discovery and delivery platforms are bad for restaurants. From the report: In recent years, online platforms like Uber Eats, Seamless, and GrubHub (which merged with Seamless, in 2013) have turned delivery from a small segment of the restaurant industry, dominated by pizza, to a booming new source of sales for food establishments of all stripes. When the average consumer logs in to the Caviar app to order a Mulberry & Vine salad for the office or a grain bowl on the way home from work, she might reasonably assume that her order is benefitting the restaurant's bottom line. But Gauthier, like many other restaurant owners I've spoken to in recent months, paints a more complicated picture. "We know for a fact that as delivery increases, our profitability decreases," she said. For each order that Mulberry & Vine sends out, between twenty and forty per cent of the revenue goes to third-party platforms and couriers. (Gauthier initially had her own couriers on staff, but, as delivery volumes grew, coordinating them became unmanageable.) Calculating an order's exact profitability is tricky, Gauthier said, but she estimated that in the past three years Mulberry & Vine's over-all profit margin has shrunk by a third, and that the only obvious contributing factor is the shift toward delivery.

41 of 269 comments (clear)

  1. Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures . . by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 5, Informative

    Reading this article will give you a good feel for how dependent restaurants are on beer/liquor sales to stay afloat.

    Delivery of food with no high-margin drinks wrecks that model. In a world where you can order any combination of items alone, each item has to be priced reasonably.

  2. they pay to outsource what they won't manage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "between twenty and forty per cent of the revenue goes to third-party platforms and couriers. (Gauthier initially had her own couriers on staff, but, as delivery volumes grew, coordinating them became unmanageable.)

      that the only obvious contributing factor is the shift toward delivery."

    So they decided to pay 20-40% to have other people co-ordinate, and now they are complaining.

    1. Re:they pay to outsource what they won't manage by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      They pay to be on the app. Having your own website only works if people come to it, and a lot of people just use apps.

      Platforms like this as undermining the idea of a free internet with a level playing field. It's not new either - try setting up an online store but not being on Amazon, Etsy, eBay etc. Unless you already have huge brand recognition it doesn't work.

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    2. Re: they pay to outsource what they won't manage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude, you charge your wife for an errand? I had not seen that marital model before.

    3. Re:they pay to outsource what they won't manage by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That’s a large part of the problem. There’s this popular restaurant review and reservation site that’s been around for a good while. At first they were quite useful and charged only a small fee to restaurant owners. Then they started to charge a percentage for each reservation, and as the site grew in popularity, that percentage increased, by quite a bit. As did the terms and conditions: prices on the site must be the lowest, no advertising on competing platforms, that sort of thing. Some restaurant owners took their place off the site... and saw the number of diners plummet. But recently they banded together, and the Restaurant Business Association (of which most restaurants are a member) launched their own reservation site without reviews (which were useless anyway), with many members pulling out of the commercial site.

      I can see something similar happening with delivery services. Already, many delivery boys will ask you to order direct from their own site next time, instead of one of the popular (and increasingly expensive) 3rd party takeout services. Per the terms and conditions of those services they are not allowed to do this, but they do so anyway just to keep their margins up... while passing some of the savings on to the customer. For small restaurants, these delivery services are very convenient but they are pricing themselves out of the market... as restaurant owners discover that they do have other options.

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    4. Re: they pay to outsource what they won't manage by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

      He is paid quite well to eat out.

      --
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    5. Re:they pay to outsource what they won't manage by Solandri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Already, many delivery boys will ask you to order direct from their own site next time, instead of one of the popular (and increasingly expensive) 3rd party takeout services.

      I do a similar thing when buying stuff online. Unless another website contributed significantly in helping me find or select the product I end up buying, I take steps to find and erase the referring affiliate info in the URL. When a website describing a product gives you a courtesy link to an online store, it's not just for your convenience. That link sets themselves as the affiliate who referred you to the store, and if you end up buying something the store pays the affiliate a percentage for the referral.

      Unfortunately these things have grown like a secret underground black market. Search engines, malware, cash back sites, and even credit card purchasing programs fight to code their websites to erase other affiliates' referrals and replace it with their own. So if I already knew I was going to buy the product from a certain store, I take steps to erase any affiliate ID so the store can keep all the money I pay them. If a certain website substantially helped me select the product (like a review site), I will take steps to make sure they get the referral.

  3. Delivery isn't profitable, so don't offer delivery by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems obvious to me that if delivery isn't profitable, your business shouldn't be offering it.

    "Enjoy our fantastic food in a friendly atmosphere tailored for your enjoyment."

    A real restaurant is a different business than someone hauling food down the street in a cardboard box on a bicycle. Just like a movie theatre is a different business than a video rental shop.

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  4. Drinks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think that most of a restaurant's profit comes from serving drinks. Home delivery really cuts into this high profit item.

    1. Re:Drinks? by kenh · · Score: 2

      And why shouldn't restaurants be allowed to deliver drinks?
      It's not like two drinks delivered is going to cause alcohol problems

      The profit isn't in just alcohol, it's in the $3 soda (with free refills!) that costs the restaurant owner a couple nickels that generates the most profit.

      When people order-in, they tend to not order over-priced soft drinks with their food, when they dine-in, they do. A take-out order likely costs the average restaurant $2 in lost soft drink profit per entrée.

      --
      Ken
  5. Re:Delivery isn't profitable, so don't offer deliv by Moof123 · · Score: 2

    Or charge a realistic markup for delivery. Call it a “Seamless surcharge” and set it to match the real cost. I would also like to see a takeout discount for not using up valuable dining space.

  6. Re:Delivery isn't profitable, so don't offer deliv by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Note i am not making any kind of moral judgement here. If what most consumers want is 'prepared food delivered to your door' and you are in the food service industry you'd better figure out how to meet that demand or you will be left behind by someone who does. Alternatively maybe you can carve out a niche space for yourself for people who still want to 'go somewhere' but a niche means exactly that, a small market where only a few of the best can thrive.

    That said I understand the trepidation the middle tear restaurateur probably feels right now. Its not just the costs of delivery. Its the other higher margin up sells like, that second beer or another cocktail your wait staff convinces the customer, he'd enjoy it and after all he is celebrating! Or the the $6 2oz cheese cake in a cup that is decadent but not two decadent and hey girl your deserve it!

    You loose the opportunity to make a lot of those sales with deliver and take out. My assumption is most restaurant dishes are not loss leaders but at least at a lot of the places I tend to each there is clearly more margin on some of those ancillaries than on the main plate items. Given a competitive market place you might not have the pricing power to raise tab on main plates either. You are competing with the places that have decided not to follow the new trend in the mean time, at least for the traditional portion of the business. Ultimately you might be re-aligning in the right way but that can mean some short term pain. Lots of restaurants are more or less hand to mouth, they may not be able to weather the changes at all and those that can might not be able to afford a misstep.

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  7. dirty secrets by supernova87a · · Score: 3, Informative

    Everyone should really read this article to know the kind of bullshit that these apps are inserting into the restaurant business. You may love the convenience, but they're 0-value adding middlemen that are sucking the restaurant dry: http://tribecacitizen.com/2016...

    Seamless, for example, not only takes a commission on every purchase (even if you would just call up the restaurant on an ongoing basis, and not being a new customer) -- the telephone numbers you sometimes see for a restaurant are actually Seamless's number, piped through their system to the restaurant. And they monitor transactions to make sure they're getting their cut.

    Technology is great and all, but you should realize the ways that people use it to take advantage of those who aren't the masters of it.

    1. Re:dirty secrets by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      but they're 0-value adding middlemen

      Except that isn't really true is it. You might not find much value in it personally. I would agree when at home I know what restaurants are around and can just easily pick up the phone or go to their websites directly; assuming I wanted to order ahead or get something delivered.

      On the other hand when traveling its a different matter. Frequently I get into some city or part of city I have never been to before. I don't always rent a car if I am only visiting a client for day or two. So I have taken a cab or uber to a hotel. Gee something to eat would be nice... So seeing all my options in once place IS of value. It is something I as a consumer want.

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    2. Re:dirty secrets by kenh · · Score: 2

      The concierge already has all that information. These middle men offer zero value.

      wow, a hotel with a concierge, how mainstream.

      --
      Ken
  8. Maybe I'm in the minority by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    I will order food to go on occasion; but I am just as happy picking it up myself as opposed to having some third party deliver it.

    I find human interaction interesting and enjoyable, most of the time... but maybe I'm in the minority. Plus my experience with a lot of these dot-com-two-point-oh businesses has left a bad impression with me, given how poorly they treat their employees - so I'm not motivated to contribute to those businesses' survival.

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  9. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that the point is that "reasonable" prices will cause a lot of customers to balk.

    If the alcohol sales essentially subsidize the food sales, then raising the prices for those food items may cause a lot of patrons to choose other places. I have a feeling that this is pretty likely to be a problem since already prices are rather high, and portions are already ridiculously large in order to justify the high prices. The actual raw ingredient costs are very low, it's facilities, utilities, labor, and probably marketing that take a lot of the revenue. Restaurants have to serve the oversized portions because that allows them to reach the price point where it's not a loss.

    When I look at my local Mexican restaurant market, the quality difference between fairly low-end food and fairly high-end food is not really all that extreme. It's enough that I generally prefer the higher-end places (they do a better job of not overcooking things and having the final dish not be as greasy) but the biggest differences are in the facilities, lower-end places are often in former-fast-food locales and the dining rooms are pretty rough. The low end places don't serve alcohol. While their prices are lower than the high-end places, they're really all that much lower. I could see the high-end place having to raise prices fairly substantially if alcohol sales don't help support the restaurant.

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  10. Re:If marginal costs marginal revenue... by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Or make the food for delivery in a cheaper place than a high-rent kitchen of the original restaurant. Find some non-retail place a few blocks away from the restaurant and set up the delivery kitchen there. Maybe even do some prep for the restaurant kitchen there too. Rent will be cheaper and will allow you to create more delivery meals. This would lower the per meal costs and increase the profitability.

  11. Re:Delivery isn't profitable, so don't offer deliv by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem is that online makes a commodity out of everything. The delivery services are positioning themselves as middlemen and will make the restaurants essentially anonymous and interchangeable. With commoditization comes price pressure. Intuitively you'd think that the competition would create a meritocracy where restaurants can attract customers with quality, but like with everything else online, there are going to be a small number of "winners" who take the top spots, and a long tail of "losers", all alike. Nobody wants to order from the second best. That's why there's Google and some niche search engines. That's why there's Facebook and some niche social network sites. That's why there is Amazon and some niche postal services. Oops, too soon?

  12. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wouldn’t it be simpler to just stop offering takeout.

    If your customers want takeout, and you don't offer it, then they go elsewhere and you go bankrupt.

    One Chinese restaurant in my area went the opposite direction: They stopped offering sit down meals. Your options are takeout or delivery. They vacated their retail space, and expanded the kitchen in their house. Mom and dad cook, and the kids do the deliveries.

  13. Re: Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by kenh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most of the overhead is in staffing and rent, so anything that lowers those substantially is a huge win.

    What are you thinking?

    Do you imagine that when a restaurant turns into a delivery service they don't need to rent a location near their customers, they can instead opt to locate their facilities in a low-rent section of town simply drive longer to deliver your food?

    What staffing is eliminated? For every minimum wage worker that used to sweep the dining area, bus tables and clean the bathrooms a restaurant will likely need a team of "gig economy" drivers to hand-deliver your order.

    --
    Ken
  14. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by kenh · · Score: 2

    Wouldn’t it be simpler to just stop offering takeout.

    Restaurants should get out of any business that actually costs them money instead of making money.

    If take-out orders are subsidized by dine-in customers, the restaurant is cutting it's own throat by offering take-out service.

    If your customers don't want a sit-down meal and prefer take-out, then either find a way to offer take-out profitably, or close your doors. It is a cliché on TV to see restaurants that are mis-managed "circle the bowl" for years, eating up all the owners savings as they insist their clearly failing business model can work, they just need to take another cash advance from a credit card to make payroll...

    --
    Ken
  15. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most restursnts don’t offer takeout.

    Bullcrap. Nearly all restaurants offer takeout. They may not advertise or promote it, but if you call them and ask if they can box up an order to go, very few will decline the order. Chinese, burger, and pizza joints get most of their orders takeout. Even high end restaurants typically have 20% or more takeout.

  16. Speaking of pricing structures... by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Delivery is unquestionably an added-value service.

    Prices should reflect that.

    If delivery is affecting margins negatively, it is not priced correctly. At the very least, it should end up revenue-neutral.

    --
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  17. Bottom Line by PPH · · Score: 2

    If delivery detracts from it, don't do it.

    Many restaurants are notoriously poorly managed. That's why they go out of business so fast even though they appear to be popular. Those that have a better handle on their expenses and cash flow will spot the loses and act to cut them off quickly.

    Also, know your business. If a part of what you are selling is atmosphere, then sending the food out doesn't fit your plan. Don't do it.

    --
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  18. Cabby's don't make passable wages by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    that's what made Uber & Lyft work. Cabby work has been the domain of immigrants for decades because of how they're abused. They're usually in lease arrangements with the owner of the car and/or token that effectively pays them less than minimum wage. It was easy to look the other way at Uber/Lyft's worker abuse because it was significantly less than what most cab companies do to their drivers.

    Missing from this conversation though was the crazy, out there notion of not letting _any_ company abuse workers. The working class lacks solidarity though. If we were smart we're realize that when one of us suffers we all do...

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    1. Re:Cabby's don't make passable wages by DaMattster · · Score: 2

      that's what made Uber & Lyft work. Cabby work has been the domain of immigrants for decades because of how they're abused. They're usually in lease arrangements with the owner of the car and/or token that effectively pays them less than minimum wage. It was easy to look the other way at Uber/Lyft's worker abuse because it was significantly less than what most cab companies do to their drivers. Missing from this conversation though was the crazy, out there notion of not letting _any_ company abuse workers. The working class lacks solidarity though. If we were smart we're realize that when one of us suffers we all do...

      The Working Class lacks solidarity because the wealthy keeps us divided and infighting. The wealthy tell the poor white man that he is better off than the black man - the wealthy white man cajoles the poor white man into believing that the black man is lazy or intellectually inferior. This was why Jim Crowism happened in the South. Today, the wealthy white men convince the working class that the immigrants are to blame and that immigrants are responsible for crime and stealing jobs. It is history repeating itself. It will take a sudden awakening of the working class to realize that they have been duped by the wealthy. The wealthy perpetuate the lie that if we work hard (harder than those of the "entitlement class") that we can one day carve out a niche for ourselves but the economy is heavily rigged in favor of the wealthy. The wealthy do not want new members joining their ranks - both historically and now. The wealthy refer to those folks with recently aquired wealth, pejoratively as "new money."

      The gig economy is just another extension of the wealthy trying to sell us a lie. This time they sell it to us as a "work when you want" or an "unlimited income potential." By painting a rosy picture of the gig economy, the wealthy can continue to cheapen real world skills and get people to do even more work for less money. Fiverr is a prime example of that.

    2. Re: Cabby's don't make passable wages by TheMiddleRoad · · Score: 2

      Ride sharing is a misnomer. It's just new middlemen, Lyft and Uber, removing protections from workers.

    3. Re:Cabby's don't make passable wages by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      I think you are missing part of the picture though. Uber, and Lyft are essentially brokerages. Today we think of our stock broker as that jerk who just takes %2 of everything for pushing a few buttons or e-trade grabbing $12 every time *I* have an idea. The truth is we have government to thank for that nonsense. I can't buy securities on my own because of stupid out dated regulation. Originally though the broker was very very useful (and actually still is) Having a broker enabled you to invest in business without having to spend all day standing on a street corner haggling over paper certificates. Later it meant and today it meas someone has a compiled a nice list of funds on offer that have characteristics you can sort by and help match what you want to do. I don't know how you would discover many of these products without a middle man.

      Uber and Lyft do exactly the same thing. They let an individual willing to work as a livery driver find a client who wants transportation. You can hate on them all you want but there IS value there. It is also probably a more efficient model than the traditional cab company. Which is not say we want the totally unregulated system on offer today to persist for various reasons but it really is a legitimate business. The same is true for these 'restaurant' brokers. They are pretty useful from a consumer perspective when you are visiting a place that isn't familiar to you and might have limited transportation (ie you are depending on uber, lyft, cabs). Who should foot the bill for the brokerage service, restaurant, consumer, both and what price that utility ought to command are all up for debate/market determination but you can't really argue there is no value.

      The gig economy is just another extension of the wealthy trying to sell us a lie.

      I don't think is a lie so much as sales pitch missing some key details. I also think the 1%ers don't quite understand the micro economies of less well do folks in this country as well as they imagine they do. They don't get their feelings and motivations at all. Hence Donald Trump, love him, hate him, or otherwise is now the President of the United States; after having run essentially as a populist + nationalist (which if you ask me are not dirty words). I am pretty sure a lot of the wealth gap comes down to the ability to import cheap labor, not so much goods. See when bring millions of $10 dvd players assembled by Foxxcon into the docks you might literally be importing goods but what your really importing is labor because that is the commodity (and yes its a commodity) that made it make sense to build those overseas. Free trade with nations that don't have similar labor practices hurts the American worker. Uber, Lyft, Fiverr, can pay drivers so little because they have so many driver without better employment options. If you good job with fixed hours assembling electronics for instance, you are far less likely to be sitting in your car all day wishing your cell phone would chirp so you can make a buck. Would Uber still exist probably but it would cost more and it pay more.

      Now the free traders will argue that cheaper imported goods means the dollar goes farther and the nation is wealthier as a whole, we can enjoy a larger number of dvd players than we could otherwise. That might be true, especially over the short terms, and medium term of a 1/2 century or so. I think its also true that is hollowing removing entry level work hurting younger folks ability to get into the work force. Its hollowing out our lower economic classes as well, raising unemployment and more critically under employment (which is more dangerous because again over the short term its more sustainable, people can eat today but it means they are not building wealth they are not going to be able to educate their children or pay for their retirements) that we tend paper over in the short term. Basically Globalism is the cause of the wealth gap. I don't deny the total GDP might be bigger thanks to globalism and free-trade but the domestic distribution of wealth is also much more lopsided.

           

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  19. Driving isn't keeping me away from restaurants by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    declining wages are. Inflation for me is about 3% (that's real inflation, e.g. the % my expenses go up each year, it doesn't help me that the price of a $100k sports car only went up $1000 this year when food goes up 3%). Meanwhile my pay goes up 2% a year on average (and I'm one of the lucky ones).

    I eat out less and less often because I can't afford to. Meanwhile the restaurants prices have gone up because they have fewer patrons who can afford it. So an OK Chinese buffet that used to be $10 + tip is now $25 + tip. The gyro place where I get a gyro + fries is now $15+ tip. I can't spend $20-$30 bucks on one meal.

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  20. Re: Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

    The McDonald's by me delivers through uber eats

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  21. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If smaller independent restaurants can't stay afloat, then it will destroy all diversity in the restaurant industry. That's a big downside.

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  22. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by Strider- · · Score: 4, Funny

    And then we will all have to dine at The Taco Bell.

    --
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  23. Business by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Gauthier initially had her own couriers on staff, but, as delivery volumes grew, coordinating them became unmanageable"

    Sounds like you overreached and grew so big you couldn't get the same profitability percentage anyway...

    Try this... go back to your own couriers, and only accepting the same percentage of orders as you used to. Or hiring a fleet manager to sort out your in-house deliveries, saving you a huge percentage for a single wage.

    But I guess you wouldn't do either of those as you know it has little to do with anything - business changes, either adapt or get shut out. And, to be honest, of all the business failures I've ever seen, you can see them for a long time lingering and building up on the balance sheet and being ignored.

    If delivery costs too much... stop delivery. If the profitability is dropping, find another profit. If the food is good, to the point that you couldn't manage the deliveries, it should be easy.

    Or, alternatively, take the profits you're getting and embrace the delivery culture. What's costing you most money? I would guess your premises. I've yet to see one but I see no problem with a food delivery business listed on those kinds of sites that has no physical restaurant presence you can visit. Literally operate as a food preparation and delivery company via those apps, with token presence wherever you need to prove catchment.

    The Internet kills a lot of businesses, but almost always through providing a better service. You can't fight against that, only evolve and embrace it.

    I could honestly and seriously live the rest of my live without having to visit a single shop, takeaway restaurant (maybe a proper sit-down restaurant for family meals etc.), supplier, provider, hell I could even book someone to cut to my house to cut my hair if I wanted. And the beauty is that such facilities provide me with MORE opportunity to get out and do other things much more classed as leisure (e.g. lounge in a nice restaurant) than before... it's optimisation of your life.

    I have actually found it cheaper and much more convenient for me to pre-book a guy to drive to my workplace, change my car tyre with a model I choose online down to the exact specifications and brand, and bill me for that than it is to find a garage that's open after work hours, book it in, knock back all the upsell, take it there, wait while they do it, then drive home.

    Time is money, now more than ever. And with food, especially, it's quicker and easier to take some buttons on the way home knowing by the time you get there your pre-paid food will arrive within minutes of you getting in (or even beat you there!). You can't compete against such things, but you could make an awful lot of money pre-empting and embracing them.

  24. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If all your customers demand take-out, and you lose money on each take-out meal, you still go bankrupt.

    The restaurants don't "lose money on each take-out meal".

    Businesses have variable costs, such as the ingredients and labor going into each order. They also have fixed costs, such as rent. The takeout orders generate more income than the variable costs, so they add to the total profit. But the problem is that they don't contribute enough profit to pay the rent at the end of the month.

    If your customers switch from eat-in to takeout, you may go bankrupt unless you can cut costs, but if you refuse those orders, you will go bankrupt even faster.

  25. Two different businesses! by RhettLivingston · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If profits are down, the walk-in traffic must be down - presumably because some are taking delivery now. This is to be expected. You get into the delivery business precisely because, if you don't, someone else will. Then you'd just be left with the declining restaurant revenue that I suspect is the real problem here.

    The delivery business doesn't require the seating area, wait staff, parking lot, etc. All of that and the storefront can go away. If you want to understand your business expenses, you need to separate the books and don't put anything on the delivery business' costs that it doesn't need. That 20-40% revenue that goes to the delivery costs is its equivalent of the storefront and wait staff. It shouldn't have to shoulder both.

    Eventually, I think the seating area disappears and all you have is a delivery business.

    This comes full circle when someone creates restaurant seating areas with drink service but no kitchens and facilitates easy ordering from any nearby delivery kitchens. This will allow groups a place to meet and dine while allowing the individuals to order from anywhere they want. The product of the dining rooms will be space, atmosphere, wait staff for drinks and cleanup, etc. There won't be as many seats in this system because most will prefer to have their food delivered to work, home, whatever park they are sitting in, etc.

  26. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by NormalVisual · · Score: 5, Funny

    Not a problem as long as you have your three seashells handy.

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  27. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    Accept the mainstream or abstain, thus ruining the enjoyment of "dining out" for millions of people who enjoy unique experiences.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  28. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by larryjoe · · Score: 2

    If all your customers demand take-out, and you lose money on each take-out meal, you still go bankrupt.

    The restaurants don't "lose money on each take-out meal".

    There's a difference between profits in terms of dollars and profits in terms of margins. Lower margins are not the same as losing money. That reminds me of a Morris Chang quote from a few years ago that addresses this sometimes misguided focus on margins: “You Americans measure profitability by a ratio. There’s a problem with that. No banks accept deposits denominated in ratios. The way we [TSMC] measure profitability is in ‘tons of money’. You use the return on assets ratio if cash is scarce. But if there is actually a lot of cash, then that is causing you to economize on something that is abundant.”

  29. Re: Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by kenh · · Score: 2

    The McDonald's by me delivers through uber eats

    And McDonald's, being a smart, well-run corporation, doesn't pay for the delivery - the customer does.

    --
    Ken
  30. Re:Restaurants with ridiculous pricing structures by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Reading this article will give you a good feel for how dependent restaurants are on beer/liquor sales to stay afloat.

    Delivery of food with no high-margin drinks wrecks that model. In a world where you can order any combination of items alone, each item has to be priced reasonably.

    Funny how it doesn't apply in Canada, because the liquor laws are much tougher that few restaurants are licensed to serve. Basically, every licensed restaurant must have every server trained in alcohol handling (can't serve too much, and heaven help you if you serve a minor), and the courts have ruled that "hosts" are liable - if a drunk patron leaves and kills/injures someone, the restaurant or bar serving them is actually liable for damages as well.

    So yes, there are licensed establishments, but most restaurants aren't licensed and thus can only serve non-alcoholic drinks (water, pop, etc).

    And it turns out most restaurants don't bother screwing you over with drinks - sure maybe $1.50 for a pop is a bit pricey, but it's not so over the top (and the water's always free).

    We don't have wildly expensive food prices either - in fact, apparently Vancouver is one of the cheapest places to eat out - just because there is so much competition.

    The only places that really do overcharge are "fine dining" establishments, but those were already expensive from the get-go.

    So delivery services are really an extension of the takeout model - and given some restaurants do nothing but takeout, they seem to do OK. The profits from drink sales really should be used to pay for services if you eat in - servers, dish washers, etc, but takeout doesn't incur any of that.

    I see this hurting those specialty destination restaurants that make dining "an experience" by hoity-toity celebrity chefs and big names where you might drop $200 for a meal. The more run of the mill places serving the general public for lunch downtown and all that (i.e., lunch for $10-15 max), aren't going to suffer much, if at all - given takeout is a big part of their sales.