MPEG-2 Patents Have Expired (mpegla.com)

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MPEG-2 Patents Have Expired (mpegla.com)

Posted by msmash on Wednesday February 14, 2018 @04:44AM from the rejoice dept.

New submitter jabuzz writes: Unless you live in the Philippines or Malaysia, then MPEG-2 has now joined the likes of MP3 and AC3 and gone patent free with the expiration of US patent 7,334,248.

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What does that mean? by ELCouz · 2018-02-14 04:46 · Score: -1, Offtopic

The CODEC is way out of date. I see no use even if the patent is expired.
1. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 04:49 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  DVB-S
2. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 04:54 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  it is used everywhere.
  dvd format still exists, and they're still sold (the expiry doesn't address dmca concerns regarding the easily-broken css encryption, however).
  some games and software use it as a lighter-weight (as in negligible cpu cost) format for included video clips.
  digital broadcast standards use it as well.
3. Re:What does that mean? by Presence+Eternal · 2018-02-14 04:58 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Is the patent relevant to modern computing? No. Could this prevent the trolling of retro engineering and homebrew projects? Yes. So let's all enjoy the thought of a parasite lawyer starving to death in a back alley, his last meal being the spunk of a truck driver named Leeroy and the only money in his pocket coming from Leeroy's copy of Monopoly.
4. Re:What does that mean? by MightyYar · 2018-02-14 04:58 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The most obvious and probably most common usage is over-the-air broadcasts. Combined with the patent expiration of AC3 last year, this probably means sets with built-in tuners can be produced without any licensing fees... estimates were as high as $50 per set for these fees.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
5. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 05:02 · Score: 1
  
  "So let's all enjoy the thought of a parasite lawyer starving to death in a back alley, his last meal being the spunk of a truck driver named Leeroy and the only money in his pocket coming from Leeroy's copy of Monopoly."
  That's...weirdly specific.
6. Re:What does that mean? by Hadlock · 2018-02-14 05:06 · Score: 2
  
  MP3 is the audio layer (MPEG-2, third layer) of MPEG-2, isn't it? Maybe I'm wrong, it's been a very long time.
  
  Pretty much every device on the planet has MP3 support. Also it would be great to have patent-free/patent unobstructed DVD player software; plus the idea that you can generate DVDs royalty free. A huge, huge chunk of the world still depends on street vendor pirate videos, although I think they've moved to MP4 and/or h.264 or whatever the latest standard is (I've lost track).
  
  But billions of DVDs still exist today.
  
  --
  moox. for a new generation.
7. Re:What does that mean? by jellomizer · 2018-02-14 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  Which is the general problem with software patients.
  While patients are to protect the inventor from people stealing their work, the Software industry moves too fast, so by the time it goes off patent it is mostly worthless.
  For software patients a 5 year limit should be in place. Giving time to be sold and marketed. However when it gets off patient it isn't ancient technology, just not leading edge.
  Other technologies that have been patented the 20 years is a good time frame, allowing the idea to be developed and made profitable, because physical things, needs tooling, a factory to create, and a storefront to sell. Taking 20 years to make the venture profitable. Then after that you can go by the Good Will of the branding. For software this cycle would had gone 4/5 times.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
8. Re:What does that mean? by amorsen · 2018-02-14 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  MP3 is MPEG-1, not MPEG-2. Known MP3 patents expired sometime last year (specific date appears to depend on who you ask).
  
  --
  Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
9. Re:What does that mean? by TechyImmigrant · 2018-02-14 05:26 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  >Is the patent relevant to modern computing?
  As network capacities increase, the efficiency of the coding should matter less. So presumably MPEG-2 is becoming more relevant over time.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
10. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 05:26 · Score: 0
  
  "That's...weirdly specific."
  Maybe, but I'll still drink to the idea of it coming to pass!
11. Re:What does that mean? by Strider- · 2018-02-14 05:27 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  A lot of live HD distribution is still done in MPEG2. Why? The coding delay for MPEG2 is a lot lower than for h264/HVEC/whatever the latest fancy is. Not a big deal when dealing with canned material, but a huge factor in dealing with live material. It's the difference between an 18Mbps stream (for MPEG2 HD) vs 6Mbps (h.264), but also the difference between 0.5 seconds of encoding delay vs 2 or 3 seconds.
  Also, the broadcast industry is incredibly stingy when it comes to spending money, especially capital expenditures. MPEG2 encoders are pretty cheap at this point, whereas MPEG4 are 10x the cost.
  
  --
  ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
12. Re: What does that mean? by Presence+Eternal · 2018-02-14 05:40 · Score: 1
  
  I actually thought for a moment about hardware based on it, but I assumed it wasnâ(TM)t being made any more for commercial use.
13. Re:What does that mean? by fustakrakich · 2018-02-14 05:43 · Score: 2
  
  The operation was a success, but the patent died.
  
  --
  “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
14. Re:What does that mean? by squiggleslash · 2018-02-14 05:45 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah, it's only used by DVDs and TVs, and who uses those these days? ;-)
  More seriously I'm curious to know if AAC is also included, as that was part of the MPEG-2 specification, but isn't usually thought of as MPEG 2. AAC is one of the better audio encoders out there, so it'd be nice if it's free now.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
15. Re:What does that mean? by Xest · 2018-02-14 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  Well at least the Taliban wont get sued for patent infringement next time they hack predator drone feeds, so there's that.
  https://www.schneier.com/blog/...
16. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 06:00 · Score: 0
  
  An acquaintance of his, maybe?
17. Re:What does that mean? by jabuzz · 2018-02-14 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  Nope MPEG2 used AC3 which expired last year from memory, a bit before MP3.
18. Re:What does that mean? by Solandri · 2018-02-14 06:13 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Steam In-home Streaming encodes your desktop in real-time via MPEG4/h.264, and does it with so little latency that you can use it to play FPS games. It's not like you're encoding it over and over so the latency builds up. You encode it once just before you stream it.
  
  Cost shouldn't be an issue. Broadcast equipment typically costs tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. The addition of a few dollars for a GPU with hardware h.264 encode (now commonly found on phones and tablets) would be trivial.
  
  I suspect the issue is simply foot dragging due to backwards compatibility. If you want your HD distribution broadcast to work with the largest number of legacy client devices, MPEG2 is what you need to use. Switching to MPEG4/h.264 would require the cable company send out a newer cable box to all those customers who've been dutifully been paying $15/mo to rent a cable box which was paid off a decade ago.
19. Re:What does that mean? by the_other_chewey · 2018-02-14 06:21 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  A lot of live HD distribution is still done in MPEG2. Why? The coding delay for MPEG2 is a lot lower than for h264/HVEC/whatever the latest fancy is. Not a big deal when dealing with canned material, but a huge factor in dealing with live material. It's the difference between an 18Mbps stream (for MPEG2 HD) vs 6Mbps (h.264), but also the difference between 0.5 seconds of encoding delay vs 2 or 3 seconds.
  That's not an inherent problem of the spec, and hasn't been true for over half a decade:
  http://web.archive.org/web/20150306225444/http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/249
  (it's even better today)
  
  I've set up live streams with x264 as an encoder with a guaranteed
  encoding latency of under 150ms. On commodity hardware.
  
  Also, the broadcast industry is incredibly stingy when it comes to spending money, especially capital expenditures. MPEG2 encoders are pretty cheap at this point, whereas MPEG4 are 10x the cost.
  Yeah, commercial ones. I've been surprised several times by how free-software-averse
  the whole broadcasting industry is: They'd rather buy a commercial encoder for $bignum
  purchase + recurring $bignum2 support fee instead of using a superior setup that's based
  on x264, would cost them about $bignum/10 for the initial setup, and then nothing to run for as
  long as they'd like. I'd even deliver the whole documentation on how to run everything, so they
  wouldn't need me again.
  
  It's frustratingly hard to make "No need, I'll document and show you how to fix everything yourself"
  an accepted answer to "But who do we call if something goes wrong?", even in cases where
  they already have very capable and qualified people in-house.
  
  Unfortunately, there's a pretty good inverse correlation between price and quality for H.264
  encoders: The more expensive they are, the more they suck.
  And that's were the latency problem tends to come in (and the encoding efficiency problem, and
  the picture quality problem, and...).
20. Re:What does that mean? by sa666_666 · 2018-02-14 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  But as capacities increase, we want to create higher and higher resolution videos, so we need the capacity back again.
  Pretty sure there's a law or something about that ...
21. Re:What does that mean? by AnotherAnonymousUser · 2018-02-14 07:17 · Score: 1
  
  Jevon's Paradox fits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
22. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 07:19 · Score: 0
  
  It's the difference between an 18Mbps stream (for MPEG2 HD) vs 6Mbps (h.264)
  Not to discount the rest of your post, but given their differences in efficiency, a 6 mbps H264 stream would be higher perceptual quality than an 18 mbps MPEG2 stream.
23. Re:What does that mean? by squiggleslash · 2018-02-14 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  No, AC3 is not part of the MPEG 2 standards. I'm talking about AAC.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
24. Re:What does that mean? by neilo_1701D · 2018-02-14 07:36 · Score: 1
  
  I've been surprised several times by how free-software-averse the whole broadcasting industry is: They'd rather buy a commercial encoder for $bignum
  purchase + recurring $bignum2 support fee instead of using a superior setup that's based on x264, would cost them about $bignum/10 for the initial setup, and then nothing to run for as long as they'd like. I'd even deliver the whole documentation on how to run everything, so they wouldn't need me again.
  Isn't the problem more the case of "if you want that particular camera then it emits xyz codec. Oh, you want to edit that video? Well, you need to license the codec."
25. Re:What does that mean? by Strider- · 2018-02-14 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  Cost shouldn't be an issue. Broadcast equipment typically costs tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. The addition of a few dollars for a GPU with hardware h.264 encode (now commonly found on phones and tablets) would be trivial.
  
  Yes, but commercial broadcasters are allergic to capital expenditures. I used to work for a company that built flyaway satellite uplinks that could do live TV broadcasts in real time via satellite. They weren't cheap, on the order of $150,000. Anyhow, we were trying to sell one to one of the national broadcasters covering the war in Afghanistan. We pointed out that currently, their on-site crew would produce a package, and then upload it via Inmarsat BGAN. It would cost some $5000, and take 4 hours, to uplink a 2 minute story. Conversely, with our system, they could buy 30 minutes of OU from the satellite operator, uplink their story, and do a live hit with the anchor desk, all for $250.
  It took them almost a year to finally work up the authorization to spend the $150k on our system, but their management had no trouble spending the even larger amount on operational expenses for the old one.
  Once they finally did buy it, it paid for itself in under a month. And that doesn't include the additional revenue they got from renting it out to the rest of the press pool.
  
  --
  ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
26. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 07:59 · Score: 0
  
  my guess that law is related to rule 34
27. Re:What does that mean? by Blue+Stone · 2018-02-14 08:03 · Score: 1
  
  DAB (Digital Audion Broadcasting) uses the shitty MPEG-2 codec (in the UK, often at woefully low bitrates).
  
  --
  Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
28. Re:What does that mean? by GreyWanderingRogue · 2018-02-14 08:13 · Score: 1
  
  Also it would be great to have patent-free/patent unobstructed DVD player software; plus the idea that you can generate DVDs royalty free.
  I could be wrong, but, unfortunately, I believe there are other DVD patents besides MPEG-2 that are still in effect:
  www.dvd6cla.com/list.html
  http://www.one-red.com/license-programs/one-red-dvd-disc-and-dvd-player-license-programs/patent-lists
  http://one-red.com/en/license-programs/one-red-dvd-disc-and-dvd-player-license-programs/dvd-software#!tab4
  At least one of those has an 8 year extension and doesn't expire until 2023. That one is titled as related to Subtitles, so maybe it's possible to write software that doesn't use the subtitles that wouldn't have issues with that one? Maybe some of the others could also be avoided, too, but I haven't looked, and they're supposed to be DVD essential.
29. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 08:37 · Score: 0
  
  Your ignorance does not equate with it being out of date.
  Perhaps you are? Or never were?
30. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 08:45 · Score: 0
  
  would cost them about $bignum/10 for the initial setup, and then nothing to run for as long as they'd like.
  So you are saying no service the moment it is set up, no help with bugs, no help with features missed in the initial spec. . Just a brand new legacy installation with nobody to maintain it. You might as well pull life support the day after an open heart surgery.
  Our customers sometimes turn up ten years later and ask if we can get our software to run current hardware, they don't even want new software, just a fix to make the old one work - had to write and preload a simplistic memcpy once so some third party lib would still work the same way it did when SGI was still selling graphics. For us it is a bit of guaranteed money, for them it is someone prepared and on call who will fix issues in a short amount of time.
31. Re:What does that mean? by sl3xd · 2018-02-14 08:46 · Score: 2
  
  And DVD's... even many Blu-ray discs use MPEG-2, especially at the beginning.
  When you're using a medium for which bandwidth or size isn't a problem, there's nothing wrong with MPEG-2. Many of the first (high-def) Blu-ray discs used MPEG-2.
  The original analog broadcast formats are still widespread, and in many cases, are still better quality than their digital replacements.
  I'm pretty sure AM radio is "forever" because it's so simple to make a receiver in an emergency.
  
  --
  -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
32. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 08:47 · Score: 0
  
  A lot of live HD distribution is still done in MPEG2. Why?
  They haven't upgraded? MPEG2 is currently what's being transmitted to most viewers? I don't know...why?
  
  The coding delay for MPEG2 is a lot lower than for h264/HVEC/whatever the latest fancy is. Not a big deal when dealing with canned material, but a huge factor in dealing with live material. It's the difference between an 18Mbps stream (for MPEG2 HD) vs 6Mbps (h.264), but also the difference between 0.5 seconds of encoding delay vs 2 or 3 seconds.
  Many vendors are selling h264/h265 gear with delay in 10s to 100s of ms.
  
  Also, the broadcast industry is incredibly stingy when it comes to spending money, especially capital expenditures. MPEG2 encoders are pretty cheap at this point, whereas MPEG4 are 10x the cost.
  Bandwidth is more expensive and the price of encoder ASICS drop with each passing day. MPEG2 has no future.
33. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 08:48 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, the technology expired quite a bit before the corresponding patent did.
  No wonder with the current patent practice...
  Now just wait until the hordes of mindless consumer drones take notice.
  I bet, most of them will expire, too, before *that* happens.
34. Re:What does that mean? by bws111 · 2018-02-14 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, that's called a budget. The operating expenses were already budgeted for, a capital outlay for your system was not. During the next planning cycle they could decide whether to spend some capital money on your system or something else.
  The only companies that spend capital without going through a budget cycle are startups burning though VC money.
35. Re:What does that mean? by Calydor · 2018-02-14 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  Do you seriously care if you see the touchdown in a Superbowl match a second before some guy 2000 miles away?
  
  --
  -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
36. Re:What does that mean? by jabuzz · 2018-02-14 09:14 · Score: 2
  
  Well I have never seen a MPEG2 video stream with an AAC sound track that has been produced commercially. DVD's use an AC3 soundtrack (at least all mine do with sometimes a DTS one as well) and here in the UK the broadcast MPEG2 via DVB-T is all MP2 soundtracks.
  The AAC format has been evolving for a long time so what do you exactly mean by AAC? The original specification MPEG-2 Part 7 is free of patents,
  Unfortunately there are lots of other AAC profiles that are still under patent protection, and the MPEG4 main profile one which was defined in 2003, is as I understand it the main one in use. At least that file you downloaded from the iTunes store is.
  So that will go out of patent protection sometime in 2023, aka 20 years after the publication of the standard as that would be prior art. I don't know the exact date. However there is a possibility that a patent with a file date of before 8th June 1995 managed to get an extension such that the with grant date was after sometime in 2006, at which point it will still be valid, because it's exparation is 17 years after grant for a US patent. That would be an impressive 7 year extension but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility. I can't find a list of patents for AAC on the web to check however.
  That will be the same time that H.264 goes patent free too. However note for example that HE-AAC2 is sometime in 2026 and there are AAC profiles that where defined as recently as 2012.
37. Re:What does that mean? by bws111 · 2018-02-14 09:29 · Score: 2
  
  I would hope it would be hard to make that argument. Who would be dumb enough to fall for it? Basically what you are saying is "bet your business on me, and once you pay me you are on your own".
  "I'll document it and show you how to fix everything yourself" pretty much means "besides the documentation, I have no special knowledge or skills that could help you if/when something goes wrong, but trust me, this is the best thing ever". Do you really expect anyone to fall for that?
38. Re:What does that mean? by jabuzz · 2018-02-14 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  Depends. The DVD specification was published more than 20 years ago now. That is *ABSOLUTE* prior art. So any patent filed after that is in most sane places garbage junk. For the USA unless that subtitle patent was filed prior to 8th June 1995 and has an impressive extension it's also junk. Most of the DVD patents I believe apply to reading the physical discs, in particular things like a DVD-R disc that came out after the original standard.
  However looking at that website I randomly took US 7,082,257, which it claims expires 18th December this year for expiration. Hum checking on the web it was filed 12th April 1996, which means as it was filed after the 8th June 1995, it expires 20 years after filing which was 13th April 2016. There are lots of false claims by people holding patents on their expiration dates.
39. Re: What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 09:52 · Score: 0
  
  ...has been superseded by DVB-S2, which uses MPEG4.
40. Re: What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 09:58 · Score: 0
  
  The old DAB isn't in regular use anymore as far as I am aware. DAB+ uses HE-AAC.
41. Re:What does that mean? by DickBreath · 2018-02-14 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  I thought one of the big 'features' of MPEG-2 was that a codec could be implemented in pure logic gates without a microprocessor.
  
  Considering how microprocessors or ASICs are, I would rather have the higher compression of newer codecs. But without nasty patents.
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
42. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 10:12 · Score: 0
  
  Perhaps you have heard of "Mpeg-2 Layer III audio", aka, MP3 ?
43. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 10:39 · Score: 0
  
  Other technologies that have been patented the 20 years is a good time frame, allowing the idea to be developed and made profitable, because physical things, needs tooling, a factory to create, and a storefront to sell.
  Well, I don't see smartphones having a 20 year lifespan from conception to last unit sold.
  Development methods have developed a lot since patent durations were set.
  I don't know many fields where a patent duration of more than 10 years makes sense.
44. Re:What does that mean? by GreyWanderingRogue · 2018-02-14 10:43 · Score: 1
  
  However looking at that website I randomly took US 7,082,257, which it claims expires 18th December this year for expiration. Hum checking on the web it was filed 12th April 1996, which means as it was filed after the 8th June 1995, it expires 20 years after filing which was 13th April 2016. There are lots of false claims by people holding patents on their expiration dates.
  I'm not an IP lawyer, but if you follow the link to the USPTO from google's page, and then click images you get this: http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?D... Which shows that the patent has an extension of 616 days. It is itself a continuation of another patent that was filed on April 11, 1997 in the US (and is based on a Japanese patent filed on April 12, 1996, which is where you got your date), just under what I believe is the 1 year limit when filing for a US patent based on a patent in another country. April 11,1997 + 616 days + 20 years = Dec 18, 2018, so that's where they got the date. For the one I was referring to (US8594204), it had an extension of 2985 days = 8 years (which is why it looks to expire in 2023).
45. Re:What does that mean? by Mr.Radar · 2018-02-14 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  The original analog broadcast formats are still widespread, and in many cases, are still better quality than their digital replacements.
  What? Digital television has much quality better than analog under pretty much every circumstance. Just eliminating composite color dots is a huge improvement, not to mention the resolution increase and progressive scanning. Quality is really only a problem when the broadcaster tries to cram too many streams into a broadcast signal and starves the video of bits.
  
  --
  What if this signature were clever?
46. Re:What does that mean? by SuricouRaven · 2018-02-14 11:24 · Score: 1
  
  But as more people move to mobile, capacities decrease - you can't assume everyone is sitting at their desktop any more.
47. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 11:42 · Score: 0
  
  > It's the difference between an 18Mbps stream (for MPEG2 HD) vs 6Mbps (h.264), but also the difference between 0.5 seconds of encoding delay vs 2 or 3 seconds.
  Recently I've been talking to a friend on the other side of the world. Video, no less.
  It had no perceptible lag. I'm willing to concede 0.5 second of lag, but I was talking to someone 20,000 km away (4,000+ US leagues) as in a local conversation.
  If someone can explain that to me, I'd appreciate. I know about information parallelization, but it was instantaneous! I believe both of us had good broadband.
48. Re:What does that mean? by the_other_chewey · 2018-02-14 11:57 · Score: 1
  would cost them about $bignum/10 for the initial setup, and then nothing to run for as long as they'd like.
  So you are saying no service the moment it is set up, no help with bugs, no help with features missed in the initial spec. . Just a brand new legacy installation with nobody to maintain it.
  That's quite far from what I'm saying. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
  
  I'm quite happy to help further on. That's part of how I make a living.
  I don't insist on a service contract however, and my existing
  customers appreciate that quite a bit.
  
  You also missed the part about "there's competent in-house staff".
  
  So:
  
  properly documented setup
  clued in in-house technical staff
  no mandatory recurring costs
  no vendor lock-in (hire someone else if you want, it's all open and documented)
  But thanks for the nice example of a weird misunderstanding I don't really understand.
49. Re:What does that mean? by the_other_chewey · 2018-02-14 12:08 · Score: 1
  
  I would hope it would be hard to make that argument. Who would be dumb enough to fall for it? Basically what you are saying is "bet your business on me, and once you pay me you are on your own".
  No, what I'm saying is:
  "I'll help you with the setup, and if you want to, you can run
  it yourself further on. I'll show your staff how everything works.
  No need to keep paying me."
  
  "I'll document it and show you how to fix everything yourself" pretty much means "besides the documentation, I have no special knowledge or skills that could help you if/when something goes wrong, but trust me, this is the best thing ever".
  No, it means "I have all the special knowledge and skills that could help you,
  but I won't withhold them from you to force you to keep on paying me:
  I'll teach/show you how to do it yourself.
  Of course, you can ask me for help any time if there's something you don't want to do alone."
50. Re:What does that mean? by sl3xd · 2018-02-14 12:24 · Score: 1
  
  Not all of the analog formats are video formats.
  For example, the first generation of DAB radio (used in Europe) used MPEG-1 Audio level 2, with a maximum of 128 kbit/s of bandwidth. The end result was notably worse sound quality than the analog FM signal they replaced.
  It was a problem built-in to the standard, though: it wasn’t because it’s digital.
  The problem is that broadcast standards need to be long-lived: nobody wants to go buy all new televisions or radios every few years. That’s why old codecs (like MP3, which is a part of MPEG-1) still matter.
  
  --
  -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
51. Re: What does that mean? by Mr.Radar · 2018-02-14 12:49 · Score: 1
  
  Ah, I forgot that digital radio was a thing since it hasn't taken off in the US at all.
  
  --
  What if this signature were clever?
52. Re:What does that mean? by nebular · 2018-02-14 12:51 · Score: 2
  
  They're not so much paying for the software, they're paying for the support. The cost for the software often includes a support contract so when it all goes south 10 minutes before broadcast then can not only get all their own hands on deck, but they can bring in a paid expert from the company to help them through the process.
  This fact is the biggest problem with most free software out there. If it's not a defacto standard, then the support options are few and far between. If something goes wrong, I don't want to have to wait for a response on a message board that I hope my guys know how to implement since the guy who setup the software left before he had the chance to fully document and train others on how it works.
53. Re:What does that mean? by nebular · 2018-02-14 13:00 · Score: 1
  
  The service contract is basically insurance. So when it hits the fan you are guaranteed someone there to help with the situation who is an expert with the software. Yes you say that you'll be there for them any time, but there's no guarantee. Say you took a vacation, say you got in a car accident and are now dead and the guys you trained have since moved on, and the new guys are having trouble with the documentation.
  At my last job, free software was fine for anything that wasn't deemed critical. But for critical software, they wanted the fallback, just in case. For the contracted assurance it was worth the extra money.
54. Re:What does that mean? by bws111 · 2018-02-14 13:19 · Score: 2
  
  You may not intend your words to mean what I said, but they do. While you want to portray paid service contracts as some sort of vendor lock in and something customers are forced into, companies don't view them that way. They view support contracts for what they are: contracts. They are a guarantee that you will be there to help them if they need it, and if you aren't, they have legal recourse against you. Absent a paid contract they have no such guarantee.
55. Re:What does that mean? by vlueboy · 2018-02-14 14:17 · Score: 1
  
  I would hope it would be hard to make that argument. Who would be dumb enough to fall for it? Basically what you are saying is "bet your business on me, and once you pay me you are on your own".
  "I'll document it and show you how to fix everything yourself" pretty much means "besides the documentation, I have no special knowledge or skills that could help you if/when something goes wrong, but trust me, this is the best thing ever". Do you really expect anyone to fall for that?
  Sounds a lot like our expectations as consumers of cellphones. Modern software, even for the likes of free and open source (Firefox, Chromium, Android OSP) takes a particular cynical twist on that whole "if something goes wrong when we deprecate X for no good reason..."
56. Re:What does that mean? by Aighearach · 2018-02-14 14:19 · Score: 1
  
  The only companies that spend capital without going through a budget cycle are startups burning though VC money.
  Or privately held.
57. Re:What does that mean? by vlueboy · 2018-02-14 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  MP3 is MPEG-1, not MPEG-2. Known MP3 patents expired sometime last year (specific date appears to depend on who you ask).
  Will this MP3 and MPEG-2 combo result in finally getting US distros like Red Hat derivatives to build in support without incantations for alternative repositories and Lame (ha) combinations of gstreamer names?
  I miss the wild, valiant days of Mandrake 7, where apparently nobody cared for scary patent click-thru warnings yet.
58. Re:What does that mean? by TechyImmigrant · 2018-02-14 16:21 · Score: 1
  
  That's where I plan to dominate the world, by being the last one to still be using a desktop computer.
  All that screen space and rapid keyboard entry. What could possibly go wrong?
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
59. Re:What does that mean? by jrumney · 2018-02-14 16:44 · Score: 1
  
  DAB in UK uses MPEG1 layer 2 audio, the patents for that expired long ago. Even MP3 (MPEG1 layer 3 audio) had mostly expired long ago, the final patents that expired last year were for specific VBR encoding and never used multi-channel formats.
60. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 18:06 · Score: 0
  
  That's clever and funny. I may have to steal that.
  Oscar Wilde and James Whistler were conversing at a party. Wilde had a reputation for brilliant flashes of wit, both original and borrowed. Whistler could also turn a deft phrase, usually at someone else's expense. He had said something particularly clever and sharp edged, and Wilde exclaimed, "I wish I had said that!" Whistler disdainfully replied, "Oh, you will, Oscar, you will."
61. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 19:29 · Score: 0
  
  Why restrict yourself to satellites?
  What about DVB-T? DVB-C?
62. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 23:14 · Score: 0
  
  I doubt a few seconds are a problem when I've measured a delay of up to 0.6 seconds between two different televisions connected to the same source due to their internal filtering or whatever they are doing. Also, many of the live concert recordings I see already have a 0.2 delay between video and audio due to the mixing *on stage*, so using MPEG2 or anything else doesn't make it less unwatchable due to audio/motion sync differences.
63. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-15 00:54 · Score: 0
  
  h264 is in all hardware, it's the de-facto standard video codec used in consumer devices, especially mobiles. mpeg2 is all but dead for a reason.
64. Re:What does that mean? by squiggleslash · 2018-02-15 00:58 · Score: 1
  
  Well I have never seen a MPEG2 video stream with an AAC sound track that has been produced commercially. DVD's use an AC3 soundtrack (at least all mine do with sometimes a DTS one as well) and here in the UK the broadcast MPEG2 via DVB-T is all MP2 soundtracks.
  
  While this is true, that's solely because the MPEG 2 TS (and PS) container formats do allow non MPEG codecs, and various other standardization bodies have mandated for their applications, such as DVD, ATSC, and presumably DVB-T, that audio be allowed in AC-3 format combined with MPEG-2 video in an MPEG-2 transport (or program) stream container. AC-3 is not an MPEG-2 format, it's not defined by MPEG-2, MPEG-2 just lives happily in harmony with it.
  
  The AAC format has been evolving for a long time so what do you exactly mean by AAC? The original specification MPEG-2 Part 7 is free of patents,
  
  Then that answers my question. If that's true. I'm not convinced it is, but I hope it is. MPEG-2 Part 7 was last updated in 1999, and that's both less than 20 years ago,and the MPEG patents in general seem to have lasted much longer than 20 years after the standards that use them were published.
  
  Unfortunately there are lots of other AAC profiles that are still under patent protection, and the MPEG4 main profile one which was defined in 2003, is as I understand it the main one in use. At least that file you downloaded from the iTunes store is.
  
  Well... yes and no. As I understand it, the thing you download from iTunes is an MPEG-2 Part 7 compliant stream encapsulated in an MPEG4 container. You can do a straight lossless (ie ffmpeg -acodec copy) to an MPEG 2 container and end up with a 100% compliant MPEG-2 file. It's true that that there are now variants of AAC, but that's actually true of MP3 too (MP3Pro for example), though the MP3 variants never made it to MPEG standardization process. Generally though we don't call those AAC variants AAC, I've never seen HE-AAC or AAC+ ever called AAC.
  The bottom line is that the core AAC codec (forget HE/etc) is a good codec in widespread use, and it would be nice to know if it's now free or not.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
65. Re:What does that mean? by Carewolf · 2018-02-15 02:41 · Score: 1
  
  In-home streaming typically doesn't have multiple multi-cast channels that the user can switch between and expect to sync. Whenever you change the channel, you have to wait for a keyframe, which are less frequent in more efficient formats.
66. Re:What does that mean? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-15 03:00 · Score: 0
  
  "So let's all enjoy the thought of a parasite lawyer starving to death in a back alley, his last meal being the spunk of a truck driver named Leeroy and the only money in his pocket coming from Leeroy's copy of Monopoly."
  That's...weirdly specific.
  I'll read your books
So? by Anon-Admin · 2018-02-14 04:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

So I no longer need to buy the license for my Raspberry Pi XBMC unit?
Where do I get my free key to open that up?
1. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  Excellent question.
  They are merrily selling it yet: http://www.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/
2. Re:So? by TheRaven64 · 2018-02-14 04:58 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Not necessarily. The license key unlocks the hardware decode unit. Broadcom no longer needs to pay patent licenses for MPEG-2 (though they may have a contract that requires them to pay for devices even after the patents expire), but they are under no obligation to pass that saving on to you.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
3. Re: So? by adolf · 2018-02-14 04:58 · Score: 2
  
  The patents on the design expired. This just means that anyone can write their own MPEG2 system.
  Specific implementations are still covered by copyright and possible licensing, just like any new implentation tomorrow.
  The idea is free. The code is not necessarily free.
  
  --
  Kid-proof tablet..
4. Re: So? by MightyYar · 2018-02-14 05:06 · Score: 1
  
  There are already free (as in freedom) implementations that were only encumbered by patent.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
5. Re:So? by jellomizer · 2018-02-14 05:10 · Score: 1
  
  Off patent doesn't mean public domain.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
6. Re: So? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 05:12 · Score: 0
  
  Copyright originally expired after no more than 28 years, not up to 190 years like we have now (e.g. toddler takes a photograph and lives another 120 years).
  Of course, even 28 years is a long time for computer software.
7. Re: So? by adolf · 2018-02-14 05:13 · Score: 1
  
  Neat, and obvious (oh hi VLC and mencoder!) but.
  If you really think that the set-in-silicone hardware decoder on a Raspberry Pi MPEG2 encoder is free (as in libre), I've got a bridge to sell you.
  
  --
  Kid-proof tablet..
8. Re: So? by MightyYar · 2018-02-14 05:18 · Score: 1
  
  Certainly wasn't free, as it was already designed and produced under license. Wanna be the next generation of hardware encoders are free? (as in beer, to the manufacturer)
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
9. Re: So? by Calydor · 2018-02-14 05:22 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  To put it in perspective, two days ago was the 28th anniversary of Super Mario Bros. 3 in the US.
  
  --
  -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
10. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 05:31 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Yes, it does. If you are talking about a specific implementation, you are confusing patents with copyrights.
11. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 05:38 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe some helpful engineer will post keys. Since it is free, it is free.
12. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 06:56 · Score: 0
  
  Off patent doesn't mean public domain.
  That's exactly what it means
13. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 07:01 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Well, since no more infringment of the mpeg2 license is possible now, apparently there is already a patch to bypass the license checking and enable the GPU encoding/decoding of MPEG-2 video on the raspberry.
  
  Patch for MPEG-2, VC-1 license
  cd /boot cp start.elf start.elf_backup && \ perl -pne 's/\x47\xE9362H\x3C\x18/\x47\xE9362H\x3C\x1F/g' < start.elf_backup > start.elf
14. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 07:10 · Score: 0
  
  And just only £2.40 ($3.36) for a $2 license, what a steal! /s
15. Re: So? by adolf · 2018-02-14 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe. But will we still care enough by that point to bother with hardware MPEG2?
  The baby-daddy of all of the Pi-like creations is the Broadcom catalog, not custom silicone.
  What motivation would Broadcom have to use an open hardware design in their chips, instead of the existing design that works fine?
  
  --
  Kid-proof tablet..
16. Re: So? by MightyYar · 2018-02-14 08:58 · Score: 1
  
  They won't do it for the Pi specifically, but they'll do it for Blu-Ray/DVD Players and TVs.
  I have no idea whether Broadcom licenses their design or created it in-house. If they licence it, they'd have incentive to redesign it to save on fees. At the very least, they can kill the DRM circuitry that makes sure you have a license to use the on-board MPEG-2 decoding.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
17. Re: So? by adolf · 2018-02-14 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  They may have a contractual agreement to pay per-seat licensing for a very long time. We don't know their arrangement and have no way to know. (Why would they do this? For a better deal on licensing and royalties early on. The licensor would also adore this concept; companies love lasting residual income for zero additional effort.)
  Either way, in all likelihood, all existing product was produced under an agreement that is still binding for that particular instance of product. Contracts are assholes that way.
  What they could do, assuming they own the existing design completely and want to give up what may be (we do not know) a revenue stream for them, is allow the Pi Foundation and others to sell factory-unlocked versions of existing silicone at no additional cost.
  Future iterations may be be different, but I do not see how the existing base of installed Pis benefits from this.
  And the Pi 4 (or whatever) will certainly be quick enough to do an outstanding job of software MPEG2 without breaking a sweat, just like modern PCs. Hardware MPEG2 decoding was definitely a thing in the 90s and early 2000s. I remember being pissed when my 3dfx Voodoo3 didn't come with one (it came with a slip of paper for a mail-in offer for a free [as in beer] software decoder), and now nobody cares about that.at all anymore. Computers got fast enough that it doesn't matter.
  
  --
  Kid-proof tablet..
18. Re: So? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 23:09 · Score: 0
  
  Hey, thanks. I thought the VC one wouldn't be free yet, but what do I know.
19. Re: So? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-21 23:02 · Score: 0
  
  *shrug* it's easier and more robust to just patch a single byte to enable them all.
  If you are knowledgeable enough to make it better and fix it when it breaks, then you can write one for yourself that differenciates which codecs license restrictions apply.
Not really that relevant anymore. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 04:46 · Score: 0

There are much, much more efficient algorithms in play here these days. This is kind of like saying the patent on cuneiform writing has expired.
1. Re:Not really that relevant anymore. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 04:54 · Score: 0
  
  The patent on gif expiring led to all kinds of funny cat memes bro, even tho gif was old as shit at that point.
2. Re:Not really that relevant anymore. by TheRaven64 · 2018-02-14 04:59 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  As another poster pointed out, DVDs are still sold. There are also a bunch of devices around that have MPEG-2 hardware acceleration, but don't enable it because doing so would require paying for a patent license to MPEG-LA. They can now enable it in a firmware update.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
3. Re:Not really that relevant anymore. by OrangeTide · 2018-02-14 08:03 · Score: 2
  
  I'm hoping the £2.40 fee for unlocking MPEG2 on Raspberry Pi goes away soon.
  
  --
  “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
4. Re:Not really that relevant anymore. by thegarbz · 2018-02-14 10:54 · Score: 1
  
  Why would it? You're not paying it for royalties, you're paying it for unlocking Broadcom's locked down product.
  What really will happen now is that Broadcom's profit margin will go up when you pay the fee.
5. Re:Not really that relevant anymore. by bill_mcgonigle · 2018-02-14 13:09 · Score: 1
  
  Is all of DVD off patent (including CSS) now?
  
  --
  My God, it's Full of Source!
  OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
6. Re:Not really that relevant anymore. by 91degrees · 2018-02-14 21:41 · Score: 1
  
  It's a format that allows reasonable compression and requires relatively low resources to decompress. It's also still used in most DVB transmissions. So there are uses.
At last by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 04:50 · Score: 0

We know the reason for streaming services. (Okay being a little hyperbolic.)
Valentine's Day on SlashDot by xxxJonBoyxxx · 2018-02-14 04:51 · Score: -1, Troll

The nicest thing about SlashDot is that you can have ten even-boring-to-nerds stories like this and zero Valentine's Day pieces. (Amiright? At least I hope I stay right.)
1. Re:Valentine's Day on SlashDot by MightyYar · 2018-02-14 05:01 · Score: -1, Offtopic
  
  Oh shit! I need to stop off at CVS to get a heart-shaped box of Whitman's Sampler and a plush toy devil.
  Also, some lube and enemas.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
2. Re:Valentine's Day on SlashDot by saider · 2018-02-14 05:05 · Score: -1, Offtopic
  
  Boyfriend is into BSD (and anal apparently).
  
  --
  
  Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
3. Re:Valentine's Day on SlashDot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 05:11 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Could be worse, he could be into GPL. That stuff is viral.
4. Re:Valentine's Day on SlashDot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 05:13 · Score: -1
  
  Not sure what you've got planned for tonight, but I'm fairly certain you'll be spending it alone with that shopping list.
5. Re:Valentine's Day on SlashDot by jellomizer · 2018-02-14 05:14 · Score: 1
  
  Deep learning systems generating candy heart messages
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
6. Re:Valentine's Day on SlashDot by MightyYar · 2018-02-14 05:21 · Score: 0
  
  Man, this is the INTERNET... I'll have seven propositions under this post.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
7. Re:Valentine's Day on SlashDot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 09:43 · Score: 0
  
  Copyright in general is "viral". If you derive from someone else's work, the derived work still is still protected by the terms of the original author.
Ok. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 04:53 · Score: 0

Tersity!
Philippines and Malaysia by fred6666 · 2018-02-14 04:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

The news is that some countries are actually worse than the US regarding patents.
1. Re:Philippines and Malaysia by jabuzz · 2018-02-14 07:24 · Score: 1
  
  The list seems to me quite long. How the hell there are still five Malaysian and two Philippines ones left god only knows. Most of the US ones expired a considerable period of time ago. There where just two left this year, one expired at the end of January and the last one yesterday.
  The patents in question are apparerntly (according the MPEG-LA) below. How one finds out when they expire is an open question. I could find nothing about them on the web.
  MY 118172-A
  MY 1289941
  MY 141626-A
  MY 118444
  MY 118734-A
  PH 1-1993-47458
  PH 1-1995-50216
2. Re:Philippines and Malaysia by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 08:18 · Score: 0
  
  patents aren't so bad, at least they still expire, unlike copyright.
3. Re:Philippines and Malaysia by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 09:12 · Score: 0
  
  MY patent office: http://onlineip.myipo.gov.my/index.cfm/search/pt/index
  PH patent office: http://onlineservices.ipophil.gov.ph/ipophilsearch/PHLPatentSearch.aspx
  Lazyweb can do the lookups.
4. Re:Philippines and Malaysia by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 13:03 · Score: 0
  
  Until 2001, Malaysian patents were valid for the longer of 20 years after filing, or 15 years after grant. Since the US changed to 20 years after filing back in 1995, the old 17 years after grant is starting to become irrelevant now, and countries like Malaysia and Philippines that had shorter after grant periods, but later dates for reform were targeted for patent extension by dragging out the application process. Most companies paying these licenses are selling globally, so it doesn't really matter where the patents are valid, their agreements with MPEG-LA will require them to keep paying on everything until the last patent expires. They could withdraw products from Malaysia and Philippines and stop paying, but I suspect most won't rock the boat, as they also play on the other side of the game.
5. Re:Philippines and Malaysia by jrumney · 2018-02-14 14:30 · Score: 1
  MY 118172-A expires 30 Sept 2019
  MY 128994-A expires 30 Mar 2022
  MY 141626-A expires 31 May 2025
  MY 118444 expires 30 Nov 2019
  MY 118734-A expires 31 Jan 2020
  
  PH 1-1993-47458 exipes 17 Jul 2019
  PH 1-1995-50216 expires 13 Feb 2020
  GE technology appears to have two other possibly relevant Malaysian patent applications first filed in the US in 1993, one was granted last year and another is still under examination, so they may be able to drag this out until at least 2032 if MPEG-LA are still accepting new patents into the pool. I don't know about the other patent holders, I only found those while trying to figure out which patent MY 1289941 was referring to (turns out to be MY 128994-A, consistent with the format of the others)
6. Re:Philippines and Malaysia by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 17:07 · Score: 0
  
  Just checked the Philippines situation, they had the same 17 years after grant as the US until 1997. So just a couple of years longer.
  The Malaysian patents can probably be challenged on procedural grounds. They have well exceeded the 30 month maximum set by WIPO for entering national phase for international patent applications. There are other related patents first filed in US in 1993, and filed in Malaysia as international patents by the 12 month deadline in 1994, but only entering national phase in 2017, and still under examination. If these are allowed a 15 year term after grant, it could extend the MPEG2 licensing program out to 2033 or later.
7. Re:Philippines and Malaysia by jabuzz · 2018-02-15 04:31 · Score: 1
  
  Interesting the FAQ from the Intellectual Property Office of the Philippines says terms is 20 years from international filing so unless they had a different system in the past they are telling lies and those patents long expired.
8. Re:Philippines and Malaysia by jrumney · 2018-02-15 11:43 · Score: 1
  
  Philippines had 17 years after grant until 1997. Malaysia had 15 years after grant until 2001.
Patently ... by CaptainDork · 2018-02-14 05:01 · Score: 1

... correct.

--
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Important for HDTV by crow · 2018-02-14 05:06 · Score: 5, Interesting

HDTV in the United States uses ATSC, which is a transport stream for MPEG-2. Most cable companies still use MPEG-2, though I believe the satellite companies have switched.
While this only means a $2 reduction in the cost to make a TV, it also means a $2 reduction in the cost of streaming devices capable of playing TV signals. That's significant when you're talking about a Roku stick, which is why they skipped the license fee and don't support it. That means you can't use a Roku as a frontend for MythTV without transcoding your recordings, and you can't use a Roku as a frontend for a HDPrime networked cable card tuner.
All that can change now. I don't know if existing hardware that Roku uses can support MPEG-2, but if it does, then they could add support with just a software update. The same with all the other similar devices that may not have supported MPEG-2 in the past.
1. Re:Important for HDTV by jabuzz · 2018-02-14 05:11 · Score: 1
  
  Not sure about the latest boxes, but Roku's for a long time where same chipset as a Raspberry Pi and as such have hardware decoding though not available presumably for licensing reasons.
2. Re:Important for HDTV by Gravis+Zero · 2018-02-14 05:23 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know if existing hardware that Roku uses can support MPEG-2, but if it does, then they could add support with just a software update. The same with all the other similar devices that may not have supported MPEG-2 in the past.
  Why fix something they already paid for when they can just make you pay for it again with a software upgrade? That's capitalism.
  
  --
  Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
3. Re:Important for HDTV by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 05:46 · Score: 0
  
  Why fix something they already paid for when they can just make you pay for it again with a software upgrade? That's capitalism.
  
  Roku doesn't really make any money on selling hardware, they make money through being a streaming provider and through selling the software to TV makers. The set top box is just a means to enter both those markets.
4. Re:Important for HDTV by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 06:45 · Score: 0
  
  I don't know if existing hardware that Roku uses can support MPEG-2, but if it does, then they could add support with just a software update.
  In the case of Roku, it is more than *just* the codec, it is their particular transport protocol that is a problem for some sources (i.e. it will not directly play live streams).
5. Re:Important for HDTV by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 08:53 · Score: 0
  
  Why be an asshole to everyone when you can be nice and not charge for something that others can get for free? That's being a good person.
  (True Capitalists are all assholes. They would sell off their own soul if it meant getting a few more grains of gold.)
We should write a codec by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 05:08 · Score: 1

That is designed to progressively get better as patents expire. That way we get the best video codec over time.
Whew.... by argStyopa · 2018-02-14 05:10 · Score: 2

Now I can stop paying all those licensing fees that I've been sending all these years!

--
-Styopa
1. Re:Whew.... by MobyDisk · 2018-02-14 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  You can also stop registering your DOS shareware.
2. Re:Whew.... by squiggleslash · 2018-02-14 07:26 · Score: 1
  
  Yup. You no longer need to pay a license fee when you buy an ATSC TV or DVD (including Blu-ray disc) player.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
3. Re:Whew.... by jabuzz · 2018-02-14 07:30 · Score: 1
  
  Brought a DVD, DVD player, BluRay player, digital TV, set top box in the last decade? Then you have paid an MPEG2 license fee for the privilege. Indirectly you have been paying for your over the air broadcaster to use MPEG2 to encode the TV you are watching. So yes you can now stop paying those fees.
Baseline, main, and high profile by tepples · 2018-02-14 05:42 · Score: 1

It's annoying to quote you if you start a comment in the subject and finish it in the body.
In theory, many MPEG video codecs are structured like that. They have a "baseline profile", a "main profile", and a "high profile". But depending on the relationship among the patent encumbrances of the profiles, the higher profiles might not take off. Consider the example of arithmetic coding in JPEG. No popular encoder or decoder supported arithmetic coding because the expiration of its patent was so far after the release of JPEG and its JFIF container, and the bitrate saving at a given quality was not dramatic (about 5 to 10 percent over Huffman). By that time, more advanced lossy still photo codecs with royalty-free licensing, such as WebP (based on the intra coder of VP8), had become available.
1. Re:Baseline, main, and high profile by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 21:16 · Score: 0
  
  "It's annoying to quote you if you start a comment in the subject and finish it in the body."
  Say that to sysadmins who work with cmd.exe every day for years..
  Captcha:affairs
AAC by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 06:06 · Score: 0

Does this mean that simple AAC is also patent free?
raspberry pi ? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 06:20 · Score: 0

could we get the decoder keys for free now ?
1. Re:raspberry pi ? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 06:49 · Score: 0
  
  could we get the decoder keys for free now ?
  That is a very good question to ask the Raspberry Pi foundation directly. Please post the response you receive.
comcast did there MEPG2 HD turn off SD is still by Joe_Dragon · 2018-02-14 06:27 · Score: 1

comcast did there MEPG2 HD turn off SD is still on it (as well old junk like DCT-2000 boxes) and locals are still at MEPG2 pass through.
5 year limit for drugs as well. by Joe_Dragon · 2018-02-14 06:28 · Score: 0

5 year limit for drugs as well.
Why? by The+Grim+Reefer · 2018-02-14 06:31 · Score: 1

Why is it that the patent on MPEG-2 can expire, but copyrights last until the heat death of the universe. I suppose that's a rhetorical question, I know why, but it's just so damn annoying.
1. Re:Why? by PPH · 2018-02-14 08:46 · Score: 2
  
  Because Mickey Mouse.
  
  --
  Have gnu, will travel.
2. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  Because Democracy.
  Democracy is a powerful piece of propoganda that causes a population to willingly acquiesce to a much smaller ruling class. Some of the rent-seekers in this ruling class, notably Disney's owners, rely on the effectiveness of democracy to have the masses accept and defend nonsense like copyright law.
  Captcha: disobeys
3. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 11:26 · Score: 0
  
  Anonymous upvote.
4. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-16 15:44 · Score: 0
  
  Why is it that the patent on MPEG-2 can expire, but copyrights last until the heat death of the universe. I suppose that's a rhetorical question, I know why, but it's just so damn annoying.
  There is a lot more money available for lobbying in the copyright world than patent. Excepting the chemical and pharm business sector, patents are a net loss for publicly held businesses - about 3-4x the total value of all the patents for these other businesses is spent in litigation. That figure reverses for chemical/pharm. But the net effect is that the copyright world has a lot more businesses paying bribes - I mean campaign contributions - to the politicians and political parties, and hiring lobbying groups, think tanks, and lawyers to effect favourable law.
  If you want to invest in America, you have to buy a lot more than just politicians.
  Economists refer to this sort of thing as rent-seeking behaviour. Highly organized and wealthy groups of bad people look out for their own interests at the expense of society, getting laws passed in their favor that screw everybody else - and hiding everything behind a bodyguard of lies.
  All this is done with the willing collusion of the US legal profession, the worst rent-seeking profession in the entire country - economists have estimated that at least half the income of the profession comes from rent-seeking, which is another way of saying unethical practice of law. This makes changing the system extremely difficult.
  It's not that copyright in and of itself is a bad idea - but the copyright system the USA has is very different from what the Constitution should have led to, and in fact violates a whole bunch of fundamental rights that can be asserted under the 9th and 10th Amendments. But the lawyers are on the wrong side, so things keep getting worse instead of getting fixed.
  The net effect of all this is a very negative one on the economy, slowing growth, costing people jobs, reducing innovation, reducing government income (leading to higher tax, usually regressive or full of loopholes for the rich), and concentrating wealth.
MPEGTS is what makes this important! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 06:51 · Score: 1

Forget the video part of the MPEG-2 standard (part 2). While it's used on DVDs and was used on early HD-DVDs and Blurays it's a dying standard with only a few niche use cases going forward.
What's really important is Part 1 of the MPEG-2 standard, MPEGTS. MPEGTS is used in all DVDs, Blurays, cable tv and sattelite broadcasts, military drones, pretty much anything where there are multiple streams of synchronized data (video, audio, closed captioning, telemetry, etc). This is probably the most heavily used portion of the standard and there really hasn't been a better alternative created.
This last patent was a NO-Op for most folks by slew · 2018-02-14 06:55 · Score: 3, Interesting

FWIW, the "interesting" video codec patents expired many years ago. You can peruse them here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The last patent is entitled "Conditional access filter as for a packet video signal inverse transport system" applied to cable systems and satellite broadcast, but basically doesn't apply to program streams (which is what is used in DVD and created by most MPEG2 A/V multiplexers).
There were some streaming and DVR-like systems that recorded transport streams directly and used them, but not really any "free" stuff (which might use packet formats like MKVs) . Of course now it is totally moot...
Unnecessary. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 07:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

The mpeg2 key was just used to 'unlock' a software implementation in the VC4 firmware. It was trash anyways.
Basically all you need now is the open source VC4 drivers, or the open source vc4 gcc port and you can compile up mpeg2 for it at the same power usage as the real thing, completely bypassing the firmware requirement.
Not sure if they finished display output yet, but there is an open source VC4 bootstrap firmware now, as well as broadcom documentation on the VC4 opcodes so you could write/optimize your own implementation. The core has 20GFLOPS of peak processing if I remember correctly. Most of the Mali 400 cores are 2x that, but far less generally programmable.
When Does MPA/MP4/ACC Expire? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-14 11:02 · Score: 0

I'm thinking the codec that is used for DRM-free music purchased from iTunes and songs ripped from CD using iTunes software, not the video equivalent thereof.
Are we close to that going patent-free as well?
I think if that goes patent free, given that MP3 already has, Linux will be able to ship "out of the box" (download) everything needed to play most people's music collections. I think a lot of people have a mix of MP3s and ACC/M4A/MP4 (For some reason all those names have been used at various times) in their collections. Almost everyone tried iTunes for at least a month, you know? ;)
IANAL by OrangeTide · 2018-02-14 12:08 · Score: 1

Well I mean theoretically I can finally apply and redistribute the well known hack without violating any laws.

--
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Comment by WallyL · 2018-02-15 05:15 · Score: 1

Great! Now I can rip my LPs!
Let Me Get This Straight by Anonymous Coward · 2018-02-16 06:46 · Score: 0

Part of your argument is that video MPEG-2 is dying because it is 'only' used on DVDs and Blu-ray. Yet MPEGTS is important because it is 'importantly' used on DVDs and Blu-ray?
OK, got it. Not sure why but I got it.
Yes, I know there is more to your statement, but you are digging out the very ground your argument stands on.