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The American Midwest Is Quickly Becoming a Blue-Collar Version of Silicon Valley (qz.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Quartz: The economic engine of Silicon Valley seems to have driven right by the midwest. America's urban coastal cities have enjoyed an explosion in their technology sectors. New York's Silicon Alley and Boston's biotech corridor are world-class incubators of talent and startups. Austin (Texas), Seattle (Washington), Washington, D.C, and even Miami Beach claim a piece of the digital economy (and Silicon-something monikers). But what about Columbus and Indianapolis and Kansas City? After years in the doldrums, their fortunes are rising. Venture capital firms are setting up shop. Startups are clustering in old industrial strongholds. But the region's tech sectors look different than their coastal cousins. The midwest is seeing the rise of "mid-tech."

Alongside the traditional high-flying software jobs that are plentiful in Silicon Valley, mid-tech jobs, loosely defined as tech jobs requiring less than a college degree, are growing fast in the Midwest. While not an official designation, mid-tech jobs can be defined as skilled tech work that doesn't require a college degree: just intense, focused training on the job or in vocational programs like those of blue-collar trades of the industrial past. [...] Mid-tech jobs composed more than a quarter of all tech employment in major midwestern metropolitan areas, including Columbus, Ohio; Cincinnati, Ohio; St. Louis, Missouri; Detroit, Michigan; Nashville, Tennessee; and Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota-Wisconsin. More than 100,000 people were employed in such jobs in these cities alone. That proportion never cracked 20% in Bay Area metropolises, the heart of Silicon Valley. While the analyses did not include all cities, it reveals the tech sector's evolution in the Midwest along different lines than Silicon Valley.
The findings come from the Brookings Institute, a nonprofit public policy research group, which crunched data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. High and mid-tech jobs in midwestern cities also grew at an annual compounded rate of about 5%. What do these jobs look like? "In Kentucky, the technical skills once applied to things like calculating blast trajectories in mines are going into Javascript," reports Quartz. "The software firm Interapt has set up a training program in Eastern Kentucky to turn former coal miners and others with technical aptitude into software developers."

95 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. Specific achievements? by Archtech · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "America's urban coastal cities have enjoyed an explosion in their technology sectors. New York's Silicon Alley and Boston's biotech corridor are world-class incubators of talent and startups".

    I must be way out of touch, because I just can't think of many specific achievements that all that world-class talent has brought about.

    Processor chips - well, I think it's clear that a lot of useful progress has not been made there. GPUs, perhaps some advances. What's new in software, though? When was there last a really important new operating system? It all seems to be apps for extracting money from consumers.

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    1. Re:Specific achievements? by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Biotech has had amazing benefits. Protein based drugs have massively increased cancer survival rates along with many other diseases like hemophilia.

      CPUs have gotten much faster than they where. For HPC applications cpus have increased about 10x in the last 5 years or so and it looks like AVX-512 is continuing that trend. Neural nets are also proving to be extremely useful in science as surrogate models. Neural nets as surrogate models often execute tens of thousands of times faster than the base models.

      Most of the reason you don't see regular software benefiting much from faster CPUs is most software is not written to take advantage of what CPUs can do. Most software is designed to be easier to write and maintain and not to run fast. It also turns out that if you want software to run REALLY fast you do need to understand linear algebra.

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    2. Re:Specific achievements? by Major+Blud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's new in software, though?

      Depends on how far back you want to go for something to be "new".

      I consider virtualization to be a complete game changer. I know it's existed since the '60's, but only if you forked out huge sums to IBM. We now have virtualization for the masses.

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    3. Re:Specific achievements? by moehoward · · Score: 1

      Oh wow. It has been a long time since I have seen something so thoughtful on Slashdot.

      Well put.

      --
      "If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
    4. Re:Specific achievements? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      I had a chance to see communist propaganda first hand. It was indeed a lesser version of what we have now in the West. The problem is not that Ruskis or aliens do us bad - they probably try but so do multinational corporations, rich people with billions at their disposal, groups of activists etc. I think it is just the society as is got quite neurotic an at least on the surface it looks like on the verge of hysteria. The result is as it is. I would be surprised if we did not go to war with Ruskis sometime in not so far away future and Clinton did not even win the elections. The other way of looking at recent development in mob organization is that everybody can have a voice. This means that the average intelligence of a post anywhere on interpipes is not so good. Is the same really with so called IT jobs. People writting scripts in JS or something else need not massive knowledge in anything except their own subject augmented with some literacy and that includes writing some basic JS stuff. The difference between all these people and what they produce is astonishing. I watched falcon heavy lunch and I appreciated how well all worked. I had to go back to digging in shitty install scripts that work half the time.

    5. Re:Specific achievements? by ctilsie242 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pretty much, all I see coming from Silicon Valley are apps that try to shove ads in a new way, slurp up user data and phone home with it, be it "metadata", "telemetry", or whatever, or nickel/dime the consumer to death (F2P/P2W games, which most games tend to be.) I'm not really seeing anything that will help the quality of life across the board, but more ways to con the end user. I also don't really see much innovation either, other than buzzword-style monetization.

      Even IoT devices tend to be this way, where the device is mainly used as a way to slurp data to be sent home, as opposed to something useful for the consumer. This seems to be the case when the devices have security issues and the maker tells the people who own them, "just buy our version 1.1 device to fix the problem. We don't care to fix what is wrong with the version 1.0, and you agreed in the EULA that you won't sue us, so buy our stuff or bugger off."

    6. Re:Specific achievements? by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      Silicon Valley brings you this beautiful piece of ingenuity. Shhhhh don't tell anyone but most of the time they "invent" useless things and then make them appear useful in fancy presentations to obtain VC for paychecks for goofing off...

      --
      We'll make great pets
    7. Re:Specific achievements? by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you are working with things like molecular dynamics there is a limit to how much speed you can trade off to make the code easier to write and maintain. For many of these problems we can't just buy more hardware to solve the problem since we are already at the limits of hardware. I work on a chromatography simulator which takes several minutes to do a single simulation and millions of simulations could be needed. In the end many of our runs takes a few days to work. Most of the simpler simulators run 1/100th the speed or less. Taking something from a few days to most of a year is just not going to work.

      Languages like C++ are just inherently harder than languages like Python. If you want high performance you have to pay for it with something like C++ and your code will be harder to write and maintain. We work to make our code as clear and maintainable as possible in C++ but still not as simple as Python.

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    8. Re: Specific achievements? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Electric cars. Private space launches. Solar efficiencies keep increasing. Some pretty good stuff.

      But mostly vastly improved advertising delivery.

    9. Re:Specific achievements? by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      When was there last a really important new operating system?

      Hi, I'm a kernel developer. And I'd like to say that operating systems aren't important anymore. They used to be. but now they are just a very minor part of a system's design. What is important is paralllel processing on a cluster of multiple computers, and much of these projects are OS-agnostic or hybrids that contain nodes with different environments and hardware. The remaining hard problems in computing aren't going to be solved by us operating system developers. (certainly there is some deep technical expertise that we can offer to improve the performance of a system)

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    10. Re:Specific achievements? by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      We've had things like VMWare and VirtualBox but containers like Docker are relatively new. Not sure if the question was serious or you were going for a -1 Troll

    11. Re:Specific achievements? by enjar · · Score: 1

      A lot of the tech that comes out is sold B2B, via the cloud (which, honestly has also grown considerably in the last decade plus), into specialized markets (science, engineering, design, biotech, robotics, signal processing, AI, data analysis) or into backend/server room stuff a consumer never sees. Just because it doesn't make it into widespread consumer adoption doesn't mean there isn't useful work done, or innovative projects being worked on. A lot of change is incremental, too. The product my company makes today is certainly different, improved and changed than when I started here 15+ years ago.

    12. Re:Specific achievements? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Most software is designed to be easier to write and maintain and not to run fast. It also turns out that if you want software to run REALLY fast you do need to understand linear algebra..

      In that domain, if you've moved beyond using the "Fortran Lobster", you're doing OK maintainability-wise. Thanks goodness for hardware acceleration (CUDA and othewise) for matrix operations, or that ancient Fortran code base would still be the fastest proven option.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    13. Re:Specific achievements? by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      This is mostly just IT support stuff. Shoving more applications onto a server than normal, load balancing, migrating servers, etc. it makes IT's life easier, but maybe not the life of the users. The benefits beyond that are not immediately obvious and they're not necessarily game changing except for the niche of sysadmins.

      It's still not new though, despite people forgetting about it. Has there been anything NEW in software rather than just re-discovered by those unaware of computer history? I know there are lots of old ideas that are now more viable than they were in the past now that everyone has a supercomputer on their desk and carried in their pockets.

    14. Re:Specific achievements? by Archtech · · Score: 1

      In 1900 a family needed a full-time home worker just to acquire unrefrigerated food and prepare three meals and clean the chamber pots.

      Preferably in that order.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    15. Re:Specific achievements? by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 1

      Right now everything is parallelized using TBB. I did look into parallelizing with a GPU however the switching from solver to matrix construction happens quite quickly and matrix construction looks very inefficient on a GPU. On the whole it looks like the system runs slower if we try to run it with a GPU compared to highly optimized CPU code. I do have a usage for GPUs later though for a different part of the process.

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
  2. California pricing itself out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know a few people out in California silicon valley who say these companies and liberal California is pricing itself out of the business market. I think the escape to a more affordable market is in play and California may eventually be abandon by many tech companies or never considered as a place to do business.

    1. Re:California pricing itself out by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1, Troll

      Nope, it will never happen. People will never leave California no matter how much it costs, because they are not embarrassed in the least to be classists. Typical attitude:

      As a tech professional, I would rather eat glass than live in a so called "flyover" state. I have in-demand skills and I have zero desire to live in places that are small minded, lack diversity, and lack interesting and rich culture. The tech sector is chock full of diverse immigrants and unique people who have no desire to live in a conformist mono-chromatic culture. Top tech talents don't want to eat breakfast at the Waffle House.

      This is one of the mild ones that doesn't include profanity or wishing for death. Plenty of those out there should you wish to look.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:California pricing itself out by SirGarlon · · Score: 2

      I don't think California is on track to become an economic wasteland, but if market forces are causing companies to start up in other areas, that's a sign of a healthy {labor, real estate} market.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    3. Re:California pricing itself out by CodeHog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Awesome attitude they have there. A lot of what they complain about can be said about themselves, "small-minded, lack diversity". As for their "in-demand" skills, those will come and go. I hope they stay up to date on current tech trends. God this just drips of ignorance (their comments, not yours).

      --
      Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
    4. Re:California pricing itself out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And those are the kinds of people that will find themselves jobless at some point. If some "flyover" state becomes the next tech hub, they will have cheaper land/rent/labor than the existing tech hubs. They will be able to better compete with the big guys on the coasts. At some point the big guys will have to make a choice to relocate where those 3 are cheaper as well or find some other way to be more profitable.

      Relocating out of the liberal hell hole of the west coast probably won't be a choice, but a necessity at some point. Since all public companies try to return as much profit as possible to shareholders, relocation will be the only choice after they automate away as much as they can. Also this day in age there isn't a huge need for all the tech companies to be clustered in these expensive tech hubs. We have high speed internet that makes telecommuting possible and if needed conferences between other companies.

    5. Re:California pricing itself out by psycho12345 · · Score: 2

      As long as other states enforce non competes and do not fund higher education, probably not going to happen. Those 2 factors alone lead to large number of startups in California despite the expense. In any other state, your startup would die in the courtroom or the classroom.

    6. Re:California pricing itself out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The ironic thing is that people are leaving California... so much of Austin and the surrounding area are "refugees" from there, and tend to be extremely disliked by the locals, especially come SXSW. Of course, they complain continuously that Texas sucks compared to California, why don't the locals hold them in higher regard for coming from a far, superior state, and the only reason they are in Austin is because their paycheck is in Austin.

      The ironic thing is that "flyover" states have plenty of culture, and are probably quite happy that Californians stay at home, and keep that snotty attitude with them.

    7. Re:California pricing itself out by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Nope, it will never happen. People will never leave California no matter how much it costs, because they are not embarrassed in the least to be classists. Typical attitude:

      As a tech professional, I would rather eat glass than live in a so called "flyover" state. I have in-demand skills and I have zero desire to live in places that are small minded, lack diversity, and lack interesting and rich culture. The tech sector is chock full of diverse immigrants and unique people who have no desire to live in a conformist mono-chromatic culture. Top tech talents don't want to eat breakfast at the Waffle House.

      This is one of the mild ones that doesn't include profanity or wishing for death. Plenty of those out there should you wish to look.

      Good; more waffles for me!

    8. Re:California pricing itself out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a counterpoint to your MAGA infused viewpoint, let me give you mine.

      I'm originally from the Bay Area, but now live in a flyover state. I have actually lived in a flyover state now longer than I lived in California. However, most of my relatives still are in Cali and can't understand why/how I can live someplace besides the west coast. So I have experience with both the ultra lib Cali attitude and the ultra conservative flyover mentality. My politics and approach actually fall somewhere in the middle.

      With that being said however, much of the the example you give is correct:
      "small minded, lack diversity, and lack interesting and rich culture."
      That is true, and it definitely takes getting used to and building up a thick skin. Unless you are a Trumper, you won't fit into the strip-mall, iHOP, lifted truck, AR-15, Budlight, Carls Jr, MAGA, monochromatic situation you will find yourself in. That is just the reality.

      On the flipside, the stereotype of parts of California is also correct. Ultra pc weenies who take offense quite easily and are as inflexible in their approach and thinking as the most staunch NRA dipshits. They are actually two sides of the same coin.

      Also, as my relatives love to point out(who are all "locals" to Cali going back to the 49ers):
      No one in California is from there, especially in the Bay Area.
      This is true, just ask people who live and work in the Bay Area and you'll discover they are from almost everywhere, India, Wisconsin, New York, England, Mexico, Canada, Russia, Zimbabwe, etc

      I live in a flyover because I make decent money at a good company with good benefits, have a great home in an ok neighborhood and don't have to deal with the traffic, crime and expense of living in California. But to be honest, all it takes is being back for a day or two and I wish I have never left...

      California is to the US what the US is to the rest of the world.
      The best of everything, but the price is quite high.

    9. Re:California pricing itself out by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      People will never leave California no matter how much it costs, because...

      ...the weather is perfect and there's an ocean.

      Don't undervalue the importance of living somewhere that's absolutely beautiful. There is a reason creative and innovative people have been rolling Westward for as long as we've been a nation.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:California pricing itself out by doom · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The ironic thing is that people are leaving California

      Last official census was in 2010. There were some estimates in recent years that show the state is still growing, but a bit slower than usual: http://worldpopulationreview.c... http://journal.firsttuesday.us...

      But the ironic thing [1] is our conservative friends say many interesting things about California, but you can forget most of them. They were, for example very interested when the state's finances were in trouble, but dropped the story when we fixed it by electing Democrats.

      [1] Actually that isn't ironic. The ironic thing is you need to look up the word ironic and think about it. But then, that wasn't actually ironic either.

    11. Re:California pricing itself out by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      I was more referring to the bigoted, classist slurs being used by people who think of themselves as morally upright egalitarians. It's just surprising how fast that gets thrown out the window when it comes time to look down our noses and sneer at the little people. Speak truth to the powerless!

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    12. Re:California pricing itself out by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Chicken and waffles? Chicken and waffles.

    13. Re:California pricing itself out by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Within 90 minutes there's no less than 8 Universities that all rank better than anything in California

      Considering Stanford is ranked either #1, 2 or 3 in the nation, can you explain how that could be true?

      I understand that there is tremendous jealousy toward California, but don't start making stuff up just so you can feel better about it.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:California pricing itself out by drew_kime · · Score: 1

      I know a few people out in California silicon valley who say these companies and liberal California is pricing itself out of the business market.

      Yeah, it's like the old saying: It's gotten so crowded that nobody goes there any more.

      PS: What does "liberal" have to do with this conversation?

      --
      Nope, no sig
    15. Re:California pricing itself out by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      To a certain degree...what he said. But then, I do know many people who have, or are leaving CA because of the high cost of living, the overpopulation, the far left attitude, etc. I don't live there, but I manage people in CA, so I hear the reasons. On the other hand, where do geeks typically want to live? You're not going to find outstanding tech centers outside of the coasts, well with very few exceptions. Yes, companies are trying, my own included, to move jobs out of the higher cost areas, but then they're suffering for it because they can't find the talent that actually wants to live there.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    16. Re:California pricing itself out by dcw3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      " If some "flyover" state becomes the next tech hub"

      It's not gonna happen, and it's been tried with the help of various states in attempts to grow their tech. You've got a chicken/egg problem. There is no tech hub now, and you don't have the talent to start one.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    17. Re:California pricing itself out by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      He couldn't even get "non-compete's right. They've been around for decades, long before anyone knew what a "startup" was.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    18. Re:California pricing itself out by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nobody even thinks about your state as a rule.

      Is that why there are so many songs about California? Why the ideal of success is "loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly.. Hills that is."?

      You will notice that the Fresh Prince and Jazzy Jeff did not move in with their auntie and uncle in Rolla, Missouri. When Tom Joad and his family left the Dust Bowl, they did not try to move to Canton, Ohio. Tony Bennett did not leave his heart in Des Moines. There is not a Led Zeppelin song about "Going to Indiana".

      Brian Wilson did not sing about girls from Kentucky being, "the cutest girls in the world". You're totally jelly, dude. Face it.

      Even the most New York of New York bands sang about "going out West where I belong".

      https://youtu.be/1Z9iUdiS3hI

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    19. Re:California pricing itself out by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I may not leave, but because the weather is nice. I've lived in California my entire life, it's home. I have never met anyone outside of San Francisco who had the sort of attitude you describe. There are those who prefer the city to the rural, and some who seem to despise suburbia (which I think means silicon valley). But I don't see many classists in tech down in the valley.

      Sure, I don't want to live in someplace small minded, that's where I grow up (rural California). Diversity is nice.

      My guess is that like anywhere, you've got 10 percent with strongly held views, 10 percent with the opposite strongly held views, and 80 percent just want to live their lives and make ends meet and try to not cause problems.

      What keeps people where they are would friends, family, a good job, and so forth. It isn't politics, restaurants, the opera, etc. But I might have to retire to an inland state, lots of people do move after retirement.

    20. Re:California pricing itself out by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Ironic since most Texans are extremely up front and forward about how their state is the best, even when you don't ask. I don't consider Texas a flyover state though. And there's still the huge gap between city and rural, just the same as in California.

    21. Re:California pricing itself out by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Which isn't a bad thing. We are overcrowded here. The infrastructure can't keep up with the load, including electricity roads and especially water. Especially with the internet many of these people could work from elsewhere if they don't need access to local materials or resources. Remote shared offices would be a good idea for those who don't like to work at home.

      I am biased though, I was born here. Of course, we have families who have been here for three centuries who would say I was the interloper. So I can see both sides of it.

    22. Re:California pricing itself out by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Back in late 90s there was a rumor our medical company might relocate out of silicon valley to save on costs. The idea was to move to Pleasanton. Most people strongly objected because of the awful commute. Fast forward, and some people probalby consider Pleasanton to actually be a part of Silicon Valley, and people regularly commute from much further away than ever.

      Today my company has been recently acquired from a company not based in California, with many offices in other states and countries. So part of me wants to do the adventure and live somewhere else, and especially if I can keep my salary (fat chance).

      I think the big advantage of having so much tech in a geographically small area is that it's easy to find a new job quickly. After college, people are usually willing to relocate anywhere to get a start. After awhile, relocating is painful and highly disruptive. I think part of the reason for so much job hopping in silicon valley is that there are lots of interesting jobs nearby.

    23. Re:California pricing itself out by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      The ironic thing is that people are leaving California... so much of Austin and the surrounding area are "refugees" from there, and tend to be extremely disliked by the locals, especially come SXSW. Of course, they complain continuously that Texas sucks compared to California, why don't the locals hold them in higher regard for coming from a far, superior state, and the only reason they are in Austin is because their paycheck is in Austin.

      Funny, we have that same problem in Missouri.

      On the other hand, the weather here is wild and unpredictable (I've seen temps drop 30 degrees then regain 20 in the span of 6 hours), and we have pretty harsh winters, so the nuisance is tempered with a bit of schadenfruede - watching Coasties totally lose their shit when a 70 degree week in December is immediately followed by an apocalyptic ice storm the next.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    24. Re:California pricing itself out by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Ironic since most Texans are extremely up front and forward about how their state is the best....

      And all generalizations are true! /natch

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    25. Re:California pricing itself out by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      People will never leave California no matter how much it costs, because...

      ...the weather is perfect and there's an ocean.

      When tens of thousands of acres burst into flames annually, and vast swaths of earth arbitrarily decide it's time to slide off into the ocean, I don't think you can really call the weather "perfect." Unless you're into death and destruction, I suppose; then it probably would seem ideal.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    26. Re:California pricing itself out by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      When tens of thousands of acres burst into flames annually

      Son, California covers 104,765,165 acres. That's one hundred and four million, seven hundred and sixty-five thousand, one hundred and sixty five acres.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    27. Re:California pricing itself out by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      CA and big cities often specialize in fast-changing areas where collaboration is paramount, and thus talent and specialists are stuffed into a small geographical area so that they are readily available, including between gigs.

      But there are down-sides to such density, such as high housing prices. It's hard to be everything to every industry such that certain kind of technology may indeed find a better fit elsewhere. It's merely Adam Smith's/David Ricardo's "Comparative Advantage" principle in action.

    28. Re:California pricing itself out by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      The flip side of your liberal stereotype viewpoint would be something like, "I don't want to live on the coast with anti-family atheists, socialists, gays, sodomites, and AIDS-infected homeless who come for the weather, which also inflates real-estate prices to high-heaven, which Californians will never see anyhow."

    29. Re:California pricing itself out by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      While I've heard people wanting to leave CA because of the high cost of living, or, possibly, just move because overcrowding in the LA/SF areas, I've heard as many people want to leave because of the far left attitude as I have that wanted to leave because of the crappy weather or terribly monotonous landscape. (for the slow, that would be near 0)

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    30. Re:California pricing itself out by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      But you have heard of Rolla, I wonder if that's because of it having an excellent engineering school?

      I know it because early in my career I lived and worked there. It is a shithole, filled with god-botherers and moralistic church ladies who fuck each others' husbands. They put on a permanent protest in front of the Planned Parenthood clinic (which is across the road from a Catholic Church and next to a Panera Bread) but then put scarves over their faces when they sneak their knocked-up high-school age daughters into the clinic the next day. The first thing they want to know when they meet you is which church you attend and how long you've been a Republican, and you best be careful with your answer if you expect to be accepted as a human being. In the summer, there's unceasing heat, tornadoes and vermin. In the winter, there are high winds and a thin sheet of ice over everything.

      There is a very nice Waffle House and a Steak'n'Shake though, so it's not the worst place in the US. And if you're willing to drive about 30 miles, you can find one of the best luthiers in the country in the foothills to the Ozarks. He made a custom tenor guitar for me and it's one of my prized possessions. I also adopted a blue-tick beagle from a breeder there in Rolla that was with me for the better part of 14 years. There are some things good about Rolla, Missouri, but none of them are worth living there.

      Oh, and that "excellent engineering school" you mentioned? It's actually a "mines & manufacturing" school and I taught there. It's a decent school for Missouri, but it doesn't rank with anything really good.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    31. Re:California pricing itself out by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The "flyover" states include some pretty large cities, where you will find culture, diversity, and frequently liberalism. The rural vs. city divide is one of the most fundamental in the US, more important than coast vs. inland.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    32. Re:California pricing itself out by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      "On the other hand, where do geeks typically want to live?"

      Deep in the forrest with electric and telecommunications capabilities.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    33. Re:California pricing itself out by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Large geographical portions of CA are rather conservative, but the state as a whole is now about as left as it can get. As a conservative, I love a lot about CA except the political climate. It's beautiful...I've been all over, from San Diego, Newport Beach, Palmdale, SF, Sacramento, Lake Tahoe, etc...spent close to two years of my life during multiple visits. It's hard not to like the mountains, ocean and sunshine. But, maybe you hang around a different group of people who love the traffic, taxes, and echo chamber that it's become. It seems that a lot of folks there are only interested in the kinds of diversity that they agree with, otherwise you're offending them.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    34. Re:California pricing itself out by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      You neither addressed nor refuted my point, which is that bigoted classism is rampant in California

      Humans in general tend to be tribalistic and say that their own "kind" are the best. It's not just red's or blue's. It's similar in sports where the visitor teams are always cheaters and thugs who manipulate the referees.

      I try to take what I believe is the high-minded approach and simply say "I personally prefer X" rather than "X is special and the best" from absolute sense.

  3. Demand increases supply. by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    This isn't all that surprising IMHO.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  4. Low Visibility by JBMcB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In my neck of the woods, most of the IT companies focus on manufacturing. Their main innovations are in controls, resource planning, quality control, logistics, etc... These innovations, from the outside, are totally opaque and probably pretty boring to most end-users. However, they mean that stores can easily get the products they need to sell, stuff is easier to make, cheaper to build, and of higher quality.

    The company I work for, for instance, makes software to automate regulatory filings with the FDA, which is an incredibly cumbersome process. The only electronic filing method, for instance, is formatting data using a custom XML DTD into separate files, zipping them together in a specific directory format, then uploading it, manually, via a Java 2 *swing* based desktop application.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:Low Visibility by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But we both know the process is "cumbersome" because of the FDA, not your company. I'm doing 800-171 compliance at a smallish airline (we some a bunch of DoD flights), and their XML idea is pretty cumbersome too. No FTP access to the 40+ security guides (STIGs) I need, so I had to write a PowerShell script to parse out the names, version numbers, revision numbers. Oh, and not all of them are at HTTPS, about half a dozen are HTTP so there's another sub-step. Oh, and SOME have a month in the name. It is the PINNACLE of standardization.

      Not to mention the DoD keeps all their "good tools" locked behind their PKI. So it's either pay $$$ from a vendor for some tool, or roll it all myself. I can't really use much OSS, because that's a whole new boatload of STIGs, plus most of those tools have no STIG so I'd have to figure out a way to audit them myself. My current idea is to make a physical CentOS box for OpenSCAP and just turn it off most of the time so it won't trigger a "finding" for an audit.

    2. Re:Low Visibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Work sucks. I know. Have the same here.

    3. Re:Low Visibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's more pointlessly verbose than even Visual Basic. It's trash.

    4. Re:Low Visibility by plopez · · Score: 1

      They've developed the best marketing software *ever*.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    5. Re:Low Visibility by JBMcB · · Score: 1

      But we both know the process is "cumbersome" because of the FDA, not your company.

      Yeah, our company automates that part. It's basically a workflow/compliance package that handles all the submission requirements, scheduling and data gathering (which it pulls in from your existing systems.) The end user never sees the awful Java applet.

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    6. Re:Low Visibility by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      It would be great if Microsoft literally rammed each new version onto every server along with the .NET CLR. Instead it is a WMF download. Every machine I touch in an enterprise has a different version of PowerShell. Fuck!

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  5. I'm liking this... by Archtech · · Score: 1

    ... from TFA:

    "While not an official designation, mid-tech jobs can be defined as skilled tech work that doesn’t require a college degree..."

    The kind of work Bill Gates does, then?

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  6. This is not going quite according to plan by nucrash · · Score: 2

    I heard about some of the retraining programs setup under the Obama Administration that are finding their funding cut as well as students no longer showing up because those lucrative coal jobs are coming back.

    While I support the idea of vocational jobs getting their due value, I also see this as any one particular area becoming too flooded is likely to devalue that job. Over supply and lack of demand will destroy any industry.

    That being said, I am aware of some areas where not enough technical jobs exist and companies would rather pay more in an urban area than to pay the same amount and bring high paying jobs to a rural area. Don't ask why this is, I don't get it. I am just saying I have witnessed this and have yet to reconcile why such happens.

    --
    Place something witty here
    1. Re:This is not going quite according to plan by SirGarlon · · Score: 2

      Speaking as an employer, my perspective is that some work is parallelizable, where productivity scales approximately linearly with the number of employees assigned to it, and other work is inherently collaborative, to put it positively, or entangled in a hairball of ambiguity and unresolved dependencies, to more accurately describe how I feel about managing it. I believe the euphemism for it is "white-collar" or "professional" work. =)

      The classic example of parallelizable work I've seen in management books is cleaning hotel rooms, where if you want it done in half the time "all" you have to do is double your cleaning staff. I am not sure what tech jobs are parallelizable but when I hear people grumble about how tedious web app development can be, I guess that would be the place to look.

      The value of an urban work site is that it's centralized and easier *in aggregate* to get your employees physically co-located so they can collaborate. People whose work is well-defined and well-structured don't generally appreciate how valuable physical presence is to collaboration, especially across departmental boundaries. Email and Skype just don't substitute for stepping out to get a coffee with a manager from Marketing or QA -- and I say this an an introvert for whom striking up a conversation with a stranger feels as comfortable as fingernails scraping on a blackboard. I learned to do it none the less: relationships are how work professional gets done.

      When you've determined (through reasoned analysis or just force of habit) that you need a collaborative workspace, an urban location has powerful benefits because there's a large talent pool willing to commute to downtown compared to the number of people willing to commute to some outlying village.

      For work that's parallelizable, the costs of an office and making everyone endure the commute outweigh the benefits. It makes perfect sense to me that workers who can be productive independently should be allowed to live where they want and not spend two hours a day just getting to and from their work site.

      So that's why companies (or at least my company) are willing to pay more to be located in an urban center.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    2. Re:This is not going quite according to plan by CodeHog · · Score: 1

      "I am not sure what tech jobs are parallelizable but when I hear people grumble about how tedious web app development can be, I guess that would be the place to look." And you would probably be wrong, at least not exactly right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... And 'parallelizable'? TIL that's a word, kudos.

      --
      Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
    3. Re:This is not going quite according to plan by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      I have no doubt that you heard about this, but not from a reliable source. https://data.bls.gov/timeserie... Coal mining employment has been relatively constant over the last year and still very low compared to where it was at the start of the Obama administration. Where this is due to politics or just the fact that nobody wants to buy coal when natural gas is cheaper could be debated. But there isn't a mountain of coal jobs coming back. More importantly, there just aren't many coal jobs at all so even if the number doubled, it would be a rounding error in overall employment numbers. https://www.google.com/url?sa=...

    4. Re:This is not going quite according to plan by lgw · · Score: 1

      Plenty of urban centers are not on either coast.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:This is not going quite according to plan by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Ha, coal jobs are declining, they are moving towards increased automation with fewer workers. That's even without the decreased demand for coal.

    6. Re:This is not going quite according to plan by rlh100 · · Score: 1

      Did they walk into a bar? I am waiting for your punch line. I don't think anyone is moving to the coal fields for a coal job. The coal industry only added 8,000 jobs in 2017 based on preliminary Bureau of Labor Statistics figures in December. Not exactly a huge number of jobs.

  7. AKA do everything work. by nimbius · · Score: 5, Interesting

    speaking as a former CAD/machinist/electrician for a manufacturing company in Indiana, this work has always seemed to exist and the money has always been pretty good (~75k a year) but you'll owe the devil his dues. Manufacturing companies take 1-2 downtimes a year, during which you'll likely work 60-70 hour weeks doing this "intensive" type of work TFA describes. You'll be issued a sprint direct-connect phone because managers love the idea of a walkie talkie that works even when you're asleep at home, yet they'll pretend its not something they rely on when you start expensing 1 am PTT conference calls with the furnace operators. You'll spend most of the day writing excel reports in the cramped heat-treat or shipping office on a desktop with a missing '3' key that hasnt seen an upgrade since the bush administration, only to turn around and realize your boss also expects you to reprogram a new set of Cincinnati CNC's the mover/millwrights are slowly snaking through the plant.

    and dont expect to delegate any of this because your title never changed, just the money. Sure, I was still "big john" on the floor but ill be damned if anyone was helping run new hydraulics for me, or retrofit my reprogrammed fork truck scanners at the dock. Then theres your boss. Are you actually keeping up with the work? you can expect to have every other time card "flagged for further review" because your managers and leadership dont understand what you do anymore, but have come to rely so implicitly on it that your face is practically on the company card.

    When i gave this kind of work up for a salaried ladder logic programmer job, I was hired back part time at twice my pay for downtime events and documentation. I miss being "big john" on the floor, but i sure as shit dont miss juggling chainsaws on a sunday for pay.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:AKA do everything work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      W or HW?

    2. Re:AKA do everything work. by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      You'll spend most of the day ... in the cramped heat-treat or shipping office on a desktop with a missing '3' key that hasnt seen an upgrade since the bush administration

      I find it's often easier to just buy new keyboards and minor equipment yourself and don't make an issue of it. Ask for a replacement, but if it doesn't show up, then just go get one.

  8. Oh Good by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    "In Kentucky, the technical skills once applied to things like calculating blast trajectories in mines are going into Javascript,"

    so that they can asplode your browser.

    Where are the jobs? A software firm doesn't need so much headcount.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Clueless folks on the coasts by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The economic engine of Silicon Valley seems to have driven right by the midwest

    No it hasn't. It only seems so to clueless people on the coasts because the people who live in Silicon Valley live in a bubble. If you are looking for tech jobs, Southeast Michigan routinely outperforms Silicon Valley in R&D spending, revenue, and hiring. Why? The automotive industry uses a HUGE amount of tech. People tend to forget how much technology goes into designing and making cars. Oakland County just outside of Detroit City is one of the richest counties in the entire US. Michigan has a ridiculous amount of engineering talent - but it isn't centered around PCs and phones. It's in robots, automation, chemicals, controls, metalworking, etc.

    Venture capital firms are setting up shop. Startups are clustering in old industrial strongholds. But the region's tech sectors look different than their coastal cousins. The midwest is seeing the rise of "mid-tech."

    Venture capital firms have always been here in the midwest. So have startups. The culture is different and the economy doesn't look the same but none of that is anything new. It's kind of amazing how condescending folks from the coasts are about parts of the country they never bother to visit and know little about. They hear that the City of Detroit is having a hard time so they assume that the entire midwest is a desolate hell hole with no jobs and no technology.

    Mid-tech jobs composed more than a quarter of all tech employment in major midwestern metropolitan areas, including Columbus, Ohio; Cincinnati, Ohio; St. Louis, Missouri; Detroit, Michigan; Nashville, Tennessee; and Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota-Wisconsin. More than 100,000 people were employed in such jobs in these cities alone.

    Detroit metro alone has a population of over 4 million. 100,000 people is kind of a rounding error. Plus those jobs have always been there. If you didn't know that you weren't paying attention. You don't need a four year degree to learn how to program a robot or a CNC mill but those definitely are technical jobs.

    1. Re:Clueless folks on the coasts by drew_kime · · Score: 1

      Detroit metro alone has a population of over 4 million. 100,000 people is kind of a rounding error.

      25% is a rounding error now?

      Math skills FTW!

      --
      Nope, no sig
    2. Re:Clueless folks on the coasts by Newander · · Score: 1

      Math is hard

      --

      Jesus saves and takes half damage.

    3. Re:Clueless folks on the coasts by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Michigan has some top notch universities, and that spawns some high tech industries too. It's things like medical, biotech, hiightech. Automotive seems almost like an after thought sometimes.

  10. Midwest jobs by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2

    The jobs here are probably pretty much the same as any place else. The major difference might be most places are more set in the Windows environment than on the coast. Basically, whatever tech was "hot" 10-15 years ago is just now getting implemented here. But we all use the same type of switches, hardware, phone systems, etc as the rest of the country. We're not sending smoke signals and fighting off angry Indian tribes with muskets or using a horse and buggy for transportation. We lay fiber just like they do on the coast, we use VMWare, Active Directory, and Airwatch just like the rest of the planet. We even have these giant metal things in the sky, any they go so what we call an "International Airport"! We have 4G cell networks, electricity, electric cars, and all sorts of new-fangled tech. Our physics operates the same way as Silicon Valley, our electrons flow just the same.

    1. Re:Midwest jobs by CodeHog · · Score: 1

      "whatever tech was "hot" 10-15 years ago is just now getting implemented" Nah, it's here in the midwest just not as clustered as on the coasts. I worked on a web based application before a lot of the big sites out there existed (early 2k). I follow the trends and keep up to date on the technologies but I'm not surrounded by a ton of other software engineers in NE Illinois. Lot's of banking, teaching, and agriculture but not a hot bed of makers, app devs, etc. And some of it is due to higher education focus, universities tend to be spread out and not all have great tech schools. UofI did at one time, Andressen came out of there and I've worked with some grads that are exceptional devs. But that's 1 Uni in the state.

      --
      Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
    2. Re:Midwest jobs by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I interviewed at a bunch of east and west coast companies before deciding to stay in Indiana. They were definitely a couple years ahead on infrastructure. Denver area seemed to be in between, ahead of us, but behind Cali/NY.

      I ended up with an offer in NY, which I eventually ended up declining to take a position at a tech oriented late stage startup in town.

  11. Waffel House by sycodon · · Score: 1

    Ironically, the Waffle House is considered by some top Chefs (Anthony Bourdain for instance) to be an outstanding example of American comfort food

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Waffel House by butchersong · · Score: 1

      Based solely on taste I kind-of enjoy Waffle House. They're one of the few places you can get a decent tasting breakfast sausage (sage, red pepper) but their ingredients are really poor quality and their menu prices aren't exactly cheaper than any local breakfast places you might be able to find. The way I see it, any breakfast place that doesn't serve butter isn't really worthy of respect.

    2. Re:Waffel House by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      On the plus side, you probably don't have to deal with fresh urine and feces just outside the door of the Waffle House like you do for a lot of the "hot/trendy" breakfast places in San Francisco...

  12. Devs aren't "trained" by CodeHog · · Score: 1

    Good to see there is a push to reskill workers in areas where industry is dying out but this >>> "The software firm Interapt has set up a training program in Eastern Kentucky to turn former coal miners and others with technical aptitude into software developers." isn't that simple. While it sounds impressive to say they are creating developers with a training program, aka "Reskilling Americans for the Future!", it's not that easy. You don't become a developer by taking some training classes that most likely show you have to write HTML and maybe some basic logic. These will be more like programmers. Some will probably figure it out and go on to become devs, after finding bugs in the vendors applications or trying to debug code someone wrote 3 years ago and never documented. So invest in coffee companies and organic beef companies as these folks will be ordering americanos and the latest food crazes soon enough.

    --
    Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
  13. Shh... Don't Tell Them! by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They might start moving here. Keep your nuttiness over on the coast where it belongs. ;)

    Seriously though, the Midwest has always been a hub of technological innovation, it's just not the sexy kind that makes news. SE Michigan (where I am) has a large amount of talented engineers because of all the automotive companies and suppliers. We also have a lot of biotech and high tech manufacturing communities. It just seems that unless it's related to one of the major west coast tech companies no one cares. Personally I love it out here, the people are friendly and way more welcoming (my wife is from CA and seemed surprised by this when she moved here), the cost of living is low, and while we're not as trendy as the coasts, we do have a lot of trendy areas (check out Ann Arbor sometime). The only thing that sucks here is the weather, but it's not as bad as it's made out to be. There really is more to the US than the coasts.

    1. Re:Shh... Don't Tell Them! by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      I'm in the Dayton area. We use to be able to boast the most patents per capita when companies like NCR were still around.

      When people complain about the weather, I remind them that's what keeps our cost of living very low. Winter kinda sucks but for 9 months it's not all that bad. The worst part for us is the high volatility. I'm sure this holds true for most of the region but as the saying goes around here, "if you don't like the weather just wait 4 hours." It could snow today and have tornado watch tomorrow.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    2. Re:Shh... Don't Tell Them! by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I don't think SE Michigan qualifies as flyover, maybe rust belt. SE Michigan is practically east coast and technically has a shipping route to the ocean.

  14. This is old news. by jafac · · Score: 2

    My first job was in a tech startup in Naperville, Illinois. In 1992. (Right down the street from Bell Labs. The founder of this startup was a former Bell Labs employee).

    This company was literally bought by a competitor (who sold inferior products), and shut down. That's what happens to tech workers who choose jobs not in Silicon Valley or WDC. You get bought and shut down. That's IF your startup is successful. Same goes for companies that open satellite offices in other cities. They may not shut down these remote offices, but they are used as an accounting tool to relieve payroll pressure during a downturn. (that means these offices bear the brunt of layoffs).

    You want a hiccup-free career in tech? Don't start it in the midwest. Or any place else. The big money will come along and fuck you over. You stand a better chance in Seattle, of course, and the WDC area (if you are into Fed. Contracting), and I think New York and Boston are starting to look good too.

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  15. No coasties by unixcorn · · Score: 2

    It seems I am a polar opposite to those who are in love with the expensive living on the coasts. I live and work in the Midwest and will certainly retire here. By living in the middle of the country, I can easily visit both coasts, and the lower cost of living is going to allow me to retire early. Despite the claims that there is no culture or a diverse community, I would say that most Midwest college towns defy that notion. I have everything but an ocean and a large local lake can take care of that need. I grew up in Florida and survived the drug-addled rat race for many years before venturing west. It was the best decision I made in my life. I almost didn't write this because frankly, I would rather the coasties not know how good us "blue collar" IT folks have it.

    1. Re:No coasties by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      There is a lot to be said for life in the midwest; you can have your liberal enclaves in college towns, you do have lower costs, and there is better patronage of the arts making for free museums and accessible arts in St. Louis. I left and could never move back because of the weather. I remember days where you leave in the morning in shorts and it is snowing on the way home. Many of the long-standing political decisions also cause the problems with crime as well.

      Everybody has different needs; smart employers create opportunities in different areas to address those needs.

  16. Sounds like BS to me.. and I am from a cattle town by bpetty · · Score: 1

    This person seems completely out of touch with the tech sector in the Mid-West.

    "Austin (Texas), Seattle (Washington), Washington, D.C, and even Miami Beach claim a piece of the digital economy (and Silicon-something monikers). But what about Columbus and Indianapolis and Kansas City?"
    Trust me, I wish Kansas City WASN'T given the moniker Silicon-Prairie.

    "...mid-tech jobs can be defined as skilled tech work that doesn't require a college degree: just intense, focused training on the job or in vocational programs like those of blue-collar trades of the industrial past."
    Now, being from the Mid-West I may not be intelligent enough to put together a rational counter argument against this point, but please allow me to try and someone from the coasts can correct me. In the Mid-West we have large software companies like Cerner, Garmin, and Boeing. We have software companies that control and influence most of the financial transactions in this country, like Bats and Tradebot. We even have .COM-like businesses like the one I use to work for in Kansas City. Free pop, two story slide, regulation dodgeball court, segways... all of it. I've met Steve Wozniak more times than I could count. A coworker even got him to sign his Android phone. But maybe that is just all part of being a "mid-tech" worker in the doldrums.

  17. Plenty of work in Chicago by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

    You talk like there aren't other employers that need help. If you're any good then it's no problem to get another tech job if your employer goes under or is bought out.

    I've been working tech jobs in Chicago for 20 years now; I've never ever had a problem finding work in less than a month of looking. It's ranged from 3 days to maybe 3 weeks.

    They key is having actual skills. If you're an experienced system or network admin and have a programming background in languages like C, Perl, Python or Java you will have no problem getting a job making well over six figures. Even the front-end developers get to pick who they work for. Talk to a recruiting agency, there's more jobs available than developers.

  18. College degree required? Says who? by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

    While not an official designation, mid-tech jobs can be defined as skilled tech work that doesnâ(TM)t require a college degree: just intense, focused training on the job or in vocational programs like those of blue-collar trades of the industrial past.

    Companies in my region don't require college degrees for the high-tech jobs, you just need to have the skills and experience to get the job done. The only companies that require degrees tend to be large corporations. Sometimes they won't promote people above a certain level without a degree, but that's just their policy and they lose good workers because of it.

    1. Re:College degree required? Says who? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Degrees help with the promotions though. I've seen skilled people hit their ceilings often because a lack of a degree.

      Also important is adaptability. College is good training for that. Because the job you do today will not be anything like the job you do 10 years from now.

  19. Re:Shh... Don't Tell Them! AGREE..well, maybe not by gosand · · Score: 1

    They might start moving here. Keep your nuttiness over on the coast where it belongs. ;)

    Seriously though, the Midwest has always been a hub of technological innovation, it's just not the sexy kind that makes news. SE Michigan (where I am) has a large amount of talented engineers because of all the automotive companies and suppliers. We also have a lot of biotech and high tech manufacturing communities. It just seems that unless it's related to one of the major west coast tech companies no one cares. Personally I love it out here, the people are friendly and way more welcoming (my wife is from CA and seemed surprised by this when she moved here), the cost of living is low, and while we're not as trendy as the coasts, we do have a lot of trendy areas (check out Ann Arbor sometime). The only thing that sucks here is the weather, but it's not as bad as it's made out to be. There really is more to the US than the coasts.

    I am in the St. Louis area, and there are quite a few good companies to work for here. I am at one now that has built a very complex system that was built over the span of 15 years, and was acquired by a larger company. The problem is that we are a total Windows shop. As many companies do, they think the smart thing to do is to go with all Microsoft technology because... Microsoft! So instead of trying to fix all of our technical debt (IE-only, SQL Server only, Silverlight, and even a bit of VB6) because it would literally take years to rewrite, we are building new things in the AWS cloud. It's a whole new stack for us, and it has been very painful. It's a challenge to find people with that skillset here, so we have hired some people remotely who have those skills. Problem is they are more 'wild wild west' and don't really follow sound software engineering principles. (e.g. everyone writes their own components instead of using shared components)

    After being in the software game for 25 years, working at huge companies and startups, on everything from proprietary systems to mainframes to mobile, I can see how it would be kind of nice to settle in on something and just do it instead of trying so damn hard to innovate.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  20. Re:War on coal. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    What about our families that used to make a good living harpooning whales, or the other side of my family that made horseshoe nails? People with those fancy high school degrees looking down at me and mine, screw em all!

  21. Re:Shh... Don't Tell Them! AGREE..well, maybe not by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Here in the Twin Cities, Minnesota, I've worked for two highly innovative small companies that pretty much were (or are) the best in the world at what they did (or do).

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes