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Adult Human Brains Do Not Produce New Neurons, Study Suggests (newatlas.com)

Rich Haridy reports via New Atlas: New research from scientists at UC San Francisco is challenging half a century of conventional wisdom by suggesting the human brain may cease producing new neurons beyond childhood. While the divisive study may prove a blow to some research aimed at birthing new neurons to battle neurodegenerative disorders, it offers a new perspective on how the human brain can adapt in later life without such a capability. The team generated its data by studying brain specimens of 59 subjects, from babies to the elderly. The strategy was to look for the presence of young neurons or dividing cells by using certain antibodies that bind to those cells of interest. The focus was on the hippocampus region of the brain, known to be crucial for memory, and a comprehensively studied area previously suggested to be a key location for neurogenesis. The results were fairly comprehensive. Young or immature neurons were identified in plentiful volumes in prenatal and newborn samples but the rate consistently declined over childhood. The oldest sample that immature neurons were found in was 13 years of age, and adult samples displayed no evidence of new neurons. The study has been published in the journal Nature.

76 comments

  1. Re:GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE - NEED 2 FELCH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is disgusting! whats wrong with you!

  2. Two neurons to rub together by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The study shows this is the smartest you'll ever get. You have two neurons to rub together and bar some miracle you won't be growing more.

    1. Re:Two neurons to rub together by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Having two neurons can and will cause naughty rubbing of them thus making even this little of useful brain mass getting wasted.

    2. Re: Two neurons to rub together by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      To start a fire?

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  3. We are on slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the comment section, the production never began. You, insensitive clod!

  4. but isn't adult neurogenesis a thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    but adult neurogenesis has been demonstrated many times before:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_neurogenesis

    1. Re:but isn't adult neurogenesis a thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not just that, but it makes literally no sense. Being able to recover from minor brain damage is essential to the functioning of any species with a well-developed brain. Brain damage happens from all sorts of things including starvation and severe sensory deprivation.

      Not being able to generate at least some new neurons would be a huge problem in an evolutionary standpoint. There's only so much you can do by just shuffling the connections around. At some point you need a sufficient number of neurons in the right places to work with.

    2. Re: but isn't adult neurogenesis a thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, they did focus on just one region, and the brain has other regions ... So they kind of jumped to a conclusion there. All they showed was that using the technique they were using , they couldn't find new neurons in adults in that region ... Plenty more left to study

  5. 50 Years? by mentil · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Funny, 25 years ago I was told in school that the brain was the only part of the body that didn't produce new cells after birth. Only about 10, 15 years ago did I first hear that there was now good evidence that new neurons were produced after birth.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re: 50 Years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Researchers have a hard remembering what they have said before.

    2. Re:50 Years? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      Funny, 25 years ago I was told in school that the brain was the only part of the body that didn't produce new cells after birth.

      About 25 years ago, eggs were bad for you.

      Now they're good for you.

      In about 25 years, tobacco will be good for you . . .

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    3. Re:50 Years? by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      They've already started on that.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    4. Re:50 Years? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Good old public school education huh...
      At birth for females they have a limited number of egg cells,

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re: 50 Years? by halivar · · Score: 1

      They also some words from time to time.

    6. Re:50 Years? by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's the way science works. You keep gathering more evidence and as it mounts you sometimes have to change your mind. The eventual goal is to tackle complex questions.

      What makes a question complex? Evidence can be found for more than one possible answer. The world abounds in questions like that.

      If evidence in principle can force you to change your mind, then why keep collecting it once you've made up your mind? There's two good reasons. One is that once you've collected a lot of evidence, you don't have to change your mind every time a bit of contradictory evidence comes up, as long as the balance of evidence weighs in a certain direction. For example this study looked for new neurons and didn't find any. The news media's poor understanding of science means they jump to the conclusion that there aren't any new neurons. But at this point in the evidence gathering it's more likely they didn't do a good job of looking for them.

      The second reason is to learn to ask better questions. Thirty years ago we believed the brain was essentially static except for decay once you reached maturity. However at this point there is almost incontrovertible evidence that brain is far, far more plastic than we believed possible -- e.g. documented cases of epilepsy patients treated with a hemispherectomy regaining motor control of the affected body side. We assumed that this was because those patients grew new neurons, but if this finding holds up, we then have to ask: what is the mechanism of brain plasticity?

      Or it may be that this finding describes the usual case but in unusual ones the brain can rewire itself with new neurons. We don't know yet, but the point was until we looked we didn't understand well enough to know what we don't know.

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    7. Re:50 Years? by sdinfoserv · · Score: 1

      Ya, that's what I was told in science & biology classes in the 1970's, you have what your born with. If an area gets damaged, another area attempts to take over. That's why at any one time there's such a low utilization percentage.

    8. Re:50 Years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article basically says that no new neurons are created after age 13. Therefor you're an adult when you're 13, no crack, booze or pot is going to affect the creation of new cells. It may simply kill them faster.

      Just to drive home the point, it's not memories, but processing power that the neurons represent. Neurons are to CPU cache. Where those memories actually exist, is still really an unknown thing. People with photographic memory, or worse, remember every single thing that ever happened to them, thus never being able to forget trauma. Your memory isn't the same thing as a 32GB SD card, where you can overwrite it 100 times and then the cell is killed. No rather the neurodegenerative stuff is actually the result of things like prions (CJD/Mad Cow) making the cell self-destruct in a cascading way that we just previously attributed to old age. Dementia is just another type of cell self-destruction.

    9. Re:50 Years? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Almost. There's apparently no "low utilization percentage".

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re:50 Years? by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

      At least it's a longer and less obnoxious cycle than the bi-weekly coffee/chocolate good/bad flip-flopping...

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    11. Re:50 Years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, you're missing the point

      the article says "50 years of common wisdom" and actually they're just switching back to what they believed 10 years ago

      this is not a criticism of science. this is a criticism of the article author.

    12. Re:50 Years? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Apparently that might have been wrong.... your brain COULD produce new cells after birth, but stop producing them some time before you reach adulthood.

      Perhaps continuing to produce neurons beyond childhood would cause some issues with how minds work.

    13. Re: 50 Years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Golf clap*

      Well done, well done.

    14. Re:50 Years? by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      Eggs killed Princess Di and caused house prices to fall!

    15. Re:50 Years? by avgjoe62 · · Score: 1

      At least it's a longer and less obnoxious cycle than the bi-weekly coffee/chocolate good/bad flip-flopping...

      From Woody Allen's Sleepers:The Charmed Substances

      --

      How come Slashdot never gets Slashdotted?

    16. Re:50 Years? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      My physician told me (this is already 3ya) that daily intake of small doses of nicotine seem to be associated with lesser chance of getting dementia. He advised me not to pick up smoking tho as it is better to have no brains than die of lung cancer. I wonder how it goes for e-cigs?

    17. Re:50 Years? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      If new neurons could cause you to question status quo, it may land you in reeducation camp. This is rather unhealthy.

    18. Re:50 Years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, Nicotine =/= Tobacco... yes, nicotine comes from tobacco, but it is not tobacco. Honestly, I don't think there's even any credible comprehensive scientific evidence that tobacco is bad for you - it's the tar and hundreds or thousands of other chemicals in cigarettes, as well as inhaling burning plant and paper material, that's bad for you.
      There's been at least 1 recent study (that admittedly used a small sample size and the researcher plainly says more studies need to be done with larger sample sizes), that showed over more than 3 years, there was no evidence of lung damage or other adverse health effects in vaping subjects (that had never smoked) vs. subjects who had neither smoked nor vaped. It's all rather preliminary at this point, but the early indications are that vaping is not bad for you.

      I would like to see more studies done, and particularly on ex smokers who switched to vaping to help get off cigarettes (the boat I'm in)

    19. Re:50 Years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your heart, dude.
      The nicotine is going to wear out your heart.

  6. The brain can grow in volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is interesting, because this result seems to be at odds with earlier results that e.g. taxi driver brains do grow in volume, in the areas associated with memory. If not neurons, what is growing there?

    1. Re:The brain can grow in volume by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 1

      Kittens

    2. Re: The brain can grow in volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The brain isn't 100% neurons. There is connective tissue between them making connections, etc.

    3. Re:The brain can grow in volume by SurenEnfiajyan · · Score: 0

      The sizes of the neurons.

    4. Re:The brain can grow in volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what is growing there

      Cerebral fluid volume

    5. Re:The brain can grow in volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a load of this guy... This guy just said taxi drivers are water-heads!

      Captcha: fingered

  7. Maybe new neurons are created differently when old by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

    They just looked at the type of neurons in people's brains.
    Have they also scanned a persons brain over a period of time.
    Especially comparing scans of people who are learning new things to people who aren't.
    And looked if there are any changes to the neurons those people have?

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  8. Re:GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE - NEED 2 FELCH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Paragraphs motherfucker, do you know them?!

  9. Wrong. by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Informative

    The study found that certain indicators associated with the growth of cells in young mamals/people couldn't be found in grown-ups. This doesn't contradict the growth of cells in adult brains. The study isn't disputed as heavyly as the conclusions drawn are, but they are disputed.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you stop creating neurons,think of it as growing '1's you could kill off links to influence memory by the opposite. Did they look for broken dead links?

    2. Re:Wrong. by macklin01 · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's a big difference between growth of cells (they get bigger) and proliferation of cells (they divide to create new cells), and so it's important to be careful. (I've been working on modeling both cell growth and cell division for a good while, mostly in cancer and a little in tissue engineering and synthetic biology. e.g., here.)

      I looked at the study. They stained for Ki-67, the gold standard immunohistochemical marker for cell division. Cells that are actively cycling--in late G1, S, G2, and M phase, and a smidgen of G1 phase after division because Ki67 protein doesn't instantaneously degrade--stain positive for this marker. In particular, it is a nuclear marker, so the stain is localized to the cell nucleus, and the stain is very definitive. It's one of the easiest immunostains to do image processing on, because you can do nuclear segmentation, then analyze the colors in the segmented nuclei to see if they stained positive or negative for Ki-67.

      And that Ki-67 marker was virtually non-existent in the region of interest in all the samples above 13 years old. See Figure 2. This is *the* universal gold standard marker for cell division used across pathology and experimental biology. So yes, the study indeed found no proliferating cells in the GCL. And then they used this "young neuronal cell" marker (DCX+PSA-NCAM+ cells) to further confirm what they already saw in Ki67.

      Also, the Nature link is the *summary* of the paper, and not the actual paper. It's pretty common for the big journals to ask for a non-involved scientist in the same field to write a summary and commentary when a potentially controversial or significant paper comes out. Here's the actual paper.

      --
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    3. Re:Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for that. Can you comment on whether this was common knowledge? I thought we've known for a while that we don't create new neurons as adults, and then a study came out about a year ago that said we do create more neurons in the area of the brain associated with forming new memories (so maybe somewhere in the limbic system?).

      Do you know the timeline here? Here's an article where the researcher being interviewed says, at best, the production of new neurons in the hippocampus is a mere trickle:
      https://www.theguardian.com/science/neurophilosophy/2012/feb/23/brain-new-cells-adult-neurogenesis

      Somebody below seems to have answered this, but this article is still very puzzling.

    4. Re:Wrong. by macklin01 · · Score: 5, Informative

      No problem, and thanks for reading and replying.

      I was confused on that, too, and neurobiology is pretty far from my regular work. Part of the problem is that there's a lot going on here: plasticity and differentiation (cell adaptations, transformations from one phenotype to another, differentiation, etc.), cell proliferation, tuning of connections, etc. It's a messy area with lots of new and sometimes contradictory data coming out.

      From what I understand, there's a lot of plasticity in the brain as an adult: far more than was originally appreciated. I thought that we "knew" there were no new brain cells, and then we "knew" there were, and now we may "know" there aren't. That's the nature of evolving science, as others point out. And imprecise science communication--and imprecise English--doesn't help, either. Even biologists can get tripped up: we talk about tumor growth and cancer cell population growth, but we really primarily are talking about cell division there.

      And there are all sorts of neat surprises. It was found that glial cells (a type of brain cell responsible for maintaining brain structure) can transdifferentiate into endothelial cells (which make blood vessels). See this PNAS paper and this one. This has all sorts of implications for gliomas and other brain cancers. And God only knows what other surprises are waiting to be found.

      I suppose that's another reason they looked at the "new neuronal cell" marker: to see whether other cells could become new neuronal cells by transdifferentiation or other plastic processes. Biology is weird. :-)

      --
      OpenSource.MathCancer.org: open source comp bio
  10. Re:Maybe new neurons are created differently when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It looks like you found a major flaw, that was so non-obvious, that the experts that carried out this study can be forgiven for having missed it. If only they had consulted you on this first, then we would maybe have had some useful results instead of this obvious garbage carried out by a complete bunch of morons.

  11. Thats' science! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The mistake most lay people do is take what they see and hear in the media and change their lifestyle over it.

    "Oh no! This one study says eggs are bad! Will stop eating eggs!"

    Neuroscience is still in its infancy. And this study focused on the hippocampus. Maybe their results will hold up to further study or maybe not. New techniques are constantly being developed; so in 20 years, we'll see.

    I'm off to have my eggs and high fat low sugar breakfast with lots and lots of coffee!

    1. Re:Thats' science! by religionofpeas · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, the studies were not done with eggs, but with high amounts of isolated cholesterol. And the cholesterol wasn't given to humans but to rabbits. Rabbits, who don't usually eat eggs or meat as part of their diet, are very bad at handling high amounts of cholesterol.

  12. Unless you take Ayahuasca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For a long time, scientists believed that no new neurons are born in the brains of adults, meaning that when our existing brain cells become damaged or die, they are not replaced. However, it was later discovered that neurogenesis – meaning the creation of new neurons – does in fact in occur in the hippocampus, a brain region associated with memory. Unfortunately, the rate of neurogenesis is not always sufficient to replace all of our damaged neurons as we age, which is why many people suffer from dementia and other age-related cognitive deficiencies. Fortunately, a study conducted by the Beckley/Sant Pau Research Programme, and published in the journal Scientific Reports, reveals that certain compounds present in the psychedelic Amazonian brew ayahuasca actually stimulate the birth of new neurons.

    Researchers placed harmine and tetrahydroharmine – the most prevalent alkaloids in ayahuasca – in a petri dish with hippocampal stem cells, and found that this greatly increased the rate at which these cells developed into fully mature neurons. The results of this study were first presented at the Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelics Research in 2016, and represent the first evidence that components of ayahuasca have neurogenic properties, thereby opening up a wealth of possibilities for future research.

    We are currently conducting additional experiments to discern the magnitude of the observed effects, as well as undertaking studies on live animals. The replication of the present findings in vivo would represent a major breakthrough in mental healthcare, with potential applications ranging from treating neurodegenerative and psychiatric disorders to redressing brain damage associated with stroke or trauma.

    ---
    http://beckleyfoundation.org/ayahuasca-stimulates-the-birth-of-new-brain-cells/

    1. Re:Unless you take Ayahuasca by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      Do you have any further data to support this? I got the impression that's a fun hippy drug like lsd

  13. Then by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    How do they get cancer? Doesn't that require cell division?

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:Then by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      A quick google brings up https://medicalxpress.com/news... which says neurons transform into stem cells to become cancerous.

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      This space intentionally left blank
  14. Re:Maybe new neurons are created differently when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I don't know how science works but I worship it as a god and scientists as priests".

    Questioning interpretations and offering alternatives is part of the process.

  15. I can tell you, my brain is producing neurons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    so many neurons. And they're the best neurons. Nobody, I can tell you, nobody has neurons as good as mine.

    Just the other day I was talking with Albert Einstein. You know Al is one of the smartest people around. And he told me he wished his neurons were as good as mine.

    Even Vladimir Putin said I have good neurons. You know, if I'd had all these neurons that I have now, back when I was drafted, I probably could have come up with a better excuse than bone spurs for dodging the draft. A much better excuse. I have the best excuses. Nobody has excuses as good as mine.
    I'm Donald J. Trump, and I approve of this message.

  16. Re:Maybe new neurons are created differently when by jellomizer · · Score: 2

    This is Slashdot supposed to be a den of geeks. Who is to say this person isn't one of the worlds top Nero-Scientist? Or just a Cheetos eating slob living in their moms basement, learning science from Cable TV.

    The Nerd and Geek table is open to all.

    --
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  17. Re:GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE - NEED 2 FELCH! by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

    Probably a lack of new neurons

  18. Alright by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Childhood = build the internet
    Adulthood = route around damage, like the internet

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  19. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it offers a new perspective on how the human brain can adapt in later life without such a capability.

    You just get stupider and stupider until you'll end like orange Hitler.

    He doesn't exercise because he thinks the human body is like a battery that runs out of juice, but it's only the brain and his ran out of juice decades ago, albeit not from overuse evidently. :-)

  20. Sigh. Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are a great many studies that prove the opposite over a great deal of time. This plays almost like propaganda justifying lowering the voting age or something. Sorry, kids, we are still smarter than you, and will only be more so as time progresses as we have a great deal more personal experience. Don't blame your brain, blame your helicoptor parents and hope that you can still get back the early years of cognitive development that they ruined for you (which I believe you can).

  21. There's a lot more than neurons in the brain by mha · · Score: 2

    Ever heard about glial cells?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Most common types of brain tumors: http://braintumor.org/brain-tu...

  22. Re:GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE - NEED 2 FELCH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Dated reference, nowadays the kids would say "Do you even paragraph, bro?"

  23. I was taught this 35 years ago by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    Brain cells don't regenerate over the age of 25(ish).

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  24. Re:GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE - NEED 2 FELCH! by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

    ... as well as old ones...

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    There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
  25. Re:Maybe new neurons are created differently when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who is to say

    All those people left a while ago.

  26. Interesting by jd · · Score: 1

    The taxi driver series of studies needs explaining if this is true. (Taxi drivers exhibit a change in brain structure whilst acquiring The Knowledge, less intense professions show nothing, professions of similar intensity show similar gains. Because you can see before and after, it's possible to show the change taking place.)

    If you can only explain a subset of the data, you have explained nothing.

    Now, studies do indicate that 12 is an interesting year for the brain. The brain goes through various phases of development, consolidation and pruning in childhood. One cycle is between -3 months and 12. The second cycle is between 12 and 24, but it's it significant for highly intelligent kids on a brain food diet. Fast food would be toxic to this. So it's not shocking that current generation kids are missing this second phase.

    Studies also indicate SSRIs work as much through neurogenesis as by serotonin levels, due to the latency involved. Without knowing if depressed people were specifically included, we can't know if the one case where you'd expect higher numbers to be showed up. The threshold might be too low in normal cases.

    In other words, the study doesn't tell us much.

    --
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    1. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The taxi driver studies show new connections between neurons resulting in new neural pathways, not the generation of new cells.

    2. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me spell it for you: synapses get created and destroyed all the time, not neurons.

  27. Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neurons just reorganize and rewire themselves, like fpgas?

  28. Dendrites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought that it was well accepted that no new neurons grew in the adult brain? It was my understanding that the physical mechanism of brain plasticity was the growth of dendrites from the existing population of neurons.

  29. Re:GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE - NEED 2 FELCH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't you have humor snowflake? Keep it coming GNAA.

  30. Re: Maybe new neurons are created differently when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And yet you and I are here. Why are we here? Are we... here?

  31. Re:Maybe new neurons are created differently when by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1
  32. Re:GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE - NEED 2 FELCH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently you get more enjoyment out of less wit than any man alive.

  33. So 59 tested subjects.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. represent the 1 billion people on earth that may/may not contain genetic differences (which seems to be common nowadays).

    Bullshit study.