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FCC Accuses Stealthy Startup of Launching Rogue Satellites

Back in January, the FCC pulled permission from Silicon Valley startup Swarm Technologies to launch four satellites into space after what it says was an "apparent unauthorized launch." IEEE Spectrum reports that the unauthorized launch consisted of four experimental satellites that the FCC had decided were too small to be noticed in space -- and hence pose an unacceptable risk of collision -- but which the company may have launched anyway, using a rocket based in India. The federal regulator has since issued a letter to Swarm revoking its authorization for a follow-up mission to launch four new, larger versions of its "SpaceBee" satellites. From the report: Swarm was founded in 2016 by one engineer who developed a spacecraft concept for Google and another who sold his previous company to Apple. The SpaceBees were built as technology demonstrators for a new space-based Internet of Things communications network. Swarm believes its network could enable satellite communications for orders of magnitude less cost than existing options. It envisages the worldwide tracking of ships and cars, new agricultural technologies, and low cost connectivity for humanitarian efforts anywhere in the world. The four SpaceBees would be the first practical demonstration of Swarm's prototype hardware and cutting-edge algorithms, swapping data with ground stations for up to eight years.
[...]
The FCC told the startup that the agency would assess "the impact of the applicant's apparent unauthorized launch and operation of four satellites... on its qualifications to be a Commission licensee." If Swarm cannot convince the FCC otherwise, the startup could lose permission to build its revolutionary network before the wider world even knows the company exists. An unauthorized launch would also call into question the ability of secondary satellite "ride-share" companies and foreign launch providers to comply with U.S. space regulations.

73 of 128 comments (clear)

  1. FCC translation: "What, you went over my helmet!?" by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Funny

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    Darth Pai does not like it when big telecom's interests are threatened. Your tiny satellites, designed to burn up in the atmosphere, pose a significant risk of colliding with established interests. As such, we refused your launch request, then you went over his helmet, and how he he will crush your balls, pitiful startup weaklings.

  2. fcc? by ohgary · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Aside from the fact that the satellite may have had radios on them, Not sure where the FCC has any authority over a satellite launched from India. Also not sure why the FCC has any say in how big or small a satellite can be?

    1. Re:fcc? by BitterOak · · Score: 2
      From the article linked to in the summary:

      The FCC is responsible for regulating commercial satellites, including minimizing the chance of accidents in space.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    2. Re:fcc? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Informative

      From the article linked to in the summary:

      The FCC is responsible for regulating commercial satellites, including minimizing the chance of accidents in space.

      In the USA presumably.
      I assume Swarm Technologies can simply keep buying launches from non US providers.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    3. Re:fcc? by Moldiver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Only for the usa. The rest of the world couldn't care less what the fcc wants.

    4. Re:fcc? by jarkus4 · · Score: 2

      But they need FCC approval before anyone in US is allowed to use their satellites. They can deploy them and then seek approval, but it generally increases risk as they may be left with unsalable services after spending money on production and launch

    5. Re:fcc? by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Incorrect, the FCC can ruin the internet for everyone.

    6. Re:fcc? by gravewax · · Score: 1

      Not in other countries it doesn't

    7. Re: fcc? by XNormal · · Score: 2

      If any USA person or company is involved in any way (investor, employee, subcontractor etc) in a launch the government of the USA considers it as something it has jurisdiction over. IIRC, international space treaties actually require signatories it to regulate such activity by their citizens.

      --
      Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
    8. Re:fcc? by DerekLyons · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not sure where the FCC has any authority over a satellite launched from India. Also not sure why the FCC has any say in how big or small a satellite can be?

      The satellites are owned and operated by a US company, so (by international treaty) the US government has responsibility over them. One of those responsibilities is to ensure they can be operated safely without posing a hazard to other satellites and don't violate any of the various treaties and agreements regarding satellites.

    9. Re:fcc? by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

      1. I find hard to believe that DoD didn't notice and sent a WTF out to various parties including FCC 2. I smell favoritism. A warning, a fine, regulatory or management oversight would have been "enough" for most players, also there are due process aspects on any alaphabet agency. 3. I wonder about interference - other US players actively tattling or influencing government actions.

    10. Re: fcc? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      That kind of raises the question of what exactly is meant by "activity by X's citizens" in a world of investors and subcontractors and such. Old space treaties seem to have a strong government spaceflight undertone to them.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    11. Re:fcc? by Vitus+Wagner · · Score: 1

      No they cannot. China have prepared for this for years, and Russian authorities recently made statement that they are ready to operate russian segment of internet wiithout USA cooperation. So only US and EU people would suffer.

    12. Re:fcc? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Yes, but since the company is based in the US and there are advantages to be in the US. It may be easier to declare the company a failure, sell off its assets, restart it under a different trade name and restart with a different CEO.

      And if that still doesn't work, the company could always sell out to Verizon, I hear they have a great relationship with the head of the FCC.

    13. Re:fcc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      EU has this covered too.

    14. Re: fcc? by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      The old space treaties were crafted precisely to stop commercial space flight, a very real thing in the late 70's to mid 80's. Libya was going to host commercial space launches as it had been recently banned in europe and america, so then europe got all skitish because that was equivalent to Libya getting ICBM's... treaty after treaty was signed..

      The governments need to get the hell out of the way.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    15. Re: fcc? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Commercial space launches banned in Europe? I thought commercial space launches were why Ariane was developed in Europe in the 1970s in the first place...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re: fcc? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      You can assign liability without affording a corporation the rights of a person. You're being just as dishonest.

      --
      Good-bye
    17. Re:fcc? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      And how would they do that?
      Sure, they can make slashdot.org unreachable for me ... but not spiegel.de or wetter.de or https://www.japantimes.co.jp/ or god forbid https://www.thesun.co.uk/

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    18. Re: fcc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually we appointed ourselves world police to save you from these nasty people who called themselves nazis 80 years ago. Youâ(TM)re welcome.

    19. Re: fcc? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      You cannot enforce US laws on foreign soil to a non-person entity. The US can only enforce its own laws to its own citizens (persons) on foreign soil.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    20. Re: fcc? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      The US is about to lose yet another corporation doing beat things because of the overbearing, unelected ruling class (regulators). This is the swamp Trump lied about draining. I look forward to getting gear sent via Chinapost that can listen to these satellites to outcompete my neighbors. ;)

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    21. Re:fcc? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      And by US entities. Swarm is free to disband in the US and incorporate and operate entirely out of India if they want of course.

    22. Re:fcc? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      So do that. Of course, India is party to the same treaty and would likely come under international pressure to live up to that treaty and enforce similar rules anyway if it was more than a one off.

    23. Re:fcc? by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Cubesats are pretty small. These satellites look to be about the same size as those. Also, with the antennas deployed, they are way larger.

    24. Re: fcc? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Who owns Arianespace? It is 100% owned by European Governments. It is, in fact, a multi-governmental agency with a commercial sheen of operations overlaid.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    25. Re:fcc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They are actually substantially smaller than cube sats, as all 4 of them together occupied 1 cube sat space on the launch vehicle

    26. Re: fcc? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Cool! Then I guess the rest of the world will be fine with us slashing our 22% funding of the UN general funds (and 28% of all peacekeeping costs) and letting someone else fund that role for a while...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    27. Re: fcc? by fafalone · · Score: 1

      I have no mod points at the moment, but still wanted you to know you deserve a +1 Funny for making me laugh.

    28. Re: fcc? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      But we launch in South America, not in Europe.
      But that they are banned, I doubt. I think we simply never found a nice place for a launch site.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    29. Re:fcc? by jd · · Score: 1

      But they refuse to regulate anything else they're responsible for, unless big money is involved. Then they'll regulate.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    30. Re: fcc? by jd · · Score: 2

      Nothing wrong with regulation when it's done with the purpose of maximizing the space for everyone, fairly and reasonably, without imposing an unfair burden on those wishing to enter a market. In other words, regulation is about ensuring decency and fair play.

      Unfortunately, that's not what Pad Thai is about. He wants a market that is run exclusively for the big players who are giving him lots of money, and nobody else. Users are of no importance, only money.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    31. Re: fcc? by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      That probably has something to do with the fact that Europe isn't on the equator. Launching from the equator or as close as possible, like Florida, gives you a boost because of the speed of the Earth's rotation.

    32. Re:fcc? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      No they cannot. China have prepared for this for years, and Russian authorities recently made statement that they are ready to operate russian segment of internet wiithout USA cooperation. So only US and EU people would suffer.

      Dictatorships cut off their people from the freedom of worldwide comminication, for the purpose of maintaining their power, and it's the remaining free people who suffer?

      Odd worldview.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    33. Re:fcc? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      And which of the many links shows how the FCC ruins the internet in Germany, or in Thailand or the connection between those two?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    34. Re: fcc? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Exactly. That is why I said: I doubt someone banished launches in Europe, but I'm to lazy to google that as it is kinda irrelevant ;D

      ESA and others launch from French Guiana. http://www.arianespace.com/spa...
      Kourou, where the space port is, is 5 degrees north, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    35. Re:fcc? by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Read them and find out?

    36. Re:fcc? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      No,
      why should I?

      If you can not point out a single one, you have not read that one as well.

      I know how the internet works, you obviously not.

      The FCC has no means to shut off internet outside of the USA ... and they never would do it inside.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    37. Re: fcc? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Launching from the equator or as close as possible, like Florida, gives you a boost because of the speed of the Earth's rotation.

      For orbits on or close to the equator. For higher inclination orbits (e.g. polar orbits and near polar orbits such as used by the Iridium and GPS constellations), an equatorial launch site can increase the energy cost of achieving the desired orbit.

      One of the constraints on the orbit chosen for the ISS was, for example, being able to efficiently reach it from non-equatorial launch sites like Kennedy (2831' N) and Baikonur (4557' N).

      Hmmm, could you more efficiently get to a polar orbit with an equatorial launch and using the Moon to rotate the plane of orbit to polewards. I can see how the orbit would work, but energetically, I can't see it being "efficient". Possibly with a high efficiency engine (VASIMIR or similar) and energy from solar panels instead of stored on board in chemicals. But even that I'm struggling to see as being "efficient".

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    38. Re: fcc? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Commercial space launches banned in Europe? I thought commercial space launches were why Ariane was developed in Europe in the 1970s in the first place...

      Note how they dont launch in Europe. Get it yet?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  3. Re:frsot psot by CTU · · Score: 2

    If they are to small to be noticed then in increases the chances that they could collide with something else and a collision with anything in space is devistating for both things. Could take out any other satellite or even risk astronauts lives.

  4. Re:Uh??? Move headquarters out of US? by hawguy · · Score: 1

    It would take less than a week to move the business officially out of the US. The FCC can literally suck it. They are a useless bureaucracy that does nothing but protect incumbent monopolies. The best thing a hardware company can do to accelerate their development and lower their costs is leave the FCC in the dust.

    Unless, of course, they want to sell their product in the USA.

  5. Re: Uh??? Move headquarters out of US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    well if they cant sell it they are free to take us to court or complain to wto.
    but on the other hand... there is LOADS of people outside the us to and we all have money!

  6. Re:frsot psot by sheramil · · Score: 1

    Making them smaller.. increases the chances of collision? Are you certain about that?

  7. Too small to be tracked? by Robotech_Master · · Score: 2

    I thought space radar was capable of keeping track of things as small as flecks of paint. How can any satellite be too small for it?

    --
    Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
    1. Re: Too small to be tracked? by GabeGhearing · · Score: 5, Informative

      Detecting something and reliably tracking something are two different things. The US is responsible for tracking all satellites mainly because they are the only ones doing it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

      The loss of US grants to this company will be devastating. I also wonder what will happen with this companyâ(TM)s space insurance premiums. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

    2. Re: Too small to be tracked? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Even better, what about corner reflectors?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Too small to be tracked? by White+Yeti · · Score: 1

      Objects about 10 cm and larger can be tracked in low orbit. That means the radar can follow an object long enough to derive orbital elements, allowing reliable predictions of where the object will be later. Objects about 2 mm and larger can be sampled by high-power radars. That means the radar helps build a statistical population based on whatever zips across a fixed beam.

      I found a couple of figures (Fig. 1 and Fig. 24) showing the gap between tracking (Space Surveillance Network) and other sampling data sources. Also a recent presentation.

  8. Re:FCC translation: "What, you went over my helmet by mishehu · · Score: 1

    "Oh sh*t, not that! No, anything but that!!!!! Wooooooooaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!" Everybody knows I like to have coffee when I watch radar, right?

  9. Re: Uh??? Move headquarters out of US? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

    Ah, the traditional anticompetitive US spaceflight practices again. ;)

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  10. Solving the problem by CptJeanLuc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I expect a lot more plans for micro-satellites going forward, e.g. with the low-cost 3D-printed rocket company on New Zealand, plus generally lower cost to orbit with new technologies like SpaceX Falcon - so there is probably a need for further international regulation in that area. Both how things go up, how they stay there, and what gets to go up. I don't really know that market, but I wouldn't be surprised if this has not been properly dealt with.

    That being said, I would expect part of the solution could involve (a) something similar to transponders in aviation industry so that 'detection' is not a function only of size, (b) some low-mass low-cost technology to increase the satellites' radar signature, and (c) some international system for pro-actively registering satellites' orbits and orbital changes, instead of only relying on everything being tracked.

    1. Re:Solving the problem by jd · · Score: 1

      The FCC are involved. Of course it's not been dealt with!

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  11. Re:Uh??? Move headquarters out of US? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Depends on if their product has any FCC based implications at all. If the satellites are used over the USA, but the receivers elsewhere get the data then the FCC can go pound sand.

  12. Re: frsot psot by spire3661 · · Score: 1

    that was 50 years ago.....

    --
    Good-bye
  13. Re: Uh??? Move headquarters out of US? by guruevi · · Score: 1

    They'll get a subsidiary here to sell it through. Problem solved. Also companies can buy stuff from foreign companies.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  14. Re: frsot psot by Enigma2175 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The US has a duty and authority under the Outer Space Treaty to regulate their citizens to ensure continued access to space for all. Since Swarm Technologies is a US company, it falls under this jurisdiction. India is also a signatory to the treaty and shouldn't have launched this payload if the US didn't approve it. From the wiki article:

    "the activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty" and that States Parties shall bear international responsibility for national space activities whether carried out by governmental or non-governmental entities.

    --

    Enigma

  15. Translation: by civilwaradvocate · · Score: 1

    Our pet company SpaceX gets supremacy in this industry no matter what (it's fair though, because it's a free market, trust us (don't forget to pay your federal income taxes (: ))

    1. Re:Translation: by caseih · · Score: 3

      I think you mean United Launch Alliance, not SpaceX. SpaceX merely gets grudging respect, with politicians grumbling about how SpaceX is milking government contracts, as if ULA hasn't been doing that for its entire existence.

    2. Re:Translation: by civilwaradvocate · · Score: 1

      good info, thanks

  16. Re: frsot psot by Immerman · · Score: 2

    Or more accurately, your orbit needs to intersect its orbit, which is a far larger set of orbits that allow for collisions. Every time you pass through the intersection on your orbit, it will be at a slightly different place in its own orbit, and sooner or later you will collide.

    Orbits also don't remain constant - interaction with the magnetosphere, solar wind, gravitational anomalies, trace atmosphere fluctuations, etc. all chaotically manipulate everything's path so that nothing ever stays in the orbit where you left it. You you have to actively track everything to keep track of where it really is.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  17. Re:frsot psot by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    "Not clear what the summary is trying to say."

    It means to say India doesn't give a flying shit about what the FCC has to say over the satellites it sends to space.
    That company will just move its headquarters to Mumbai and the FCC can't do anything about it.

  18. Re:US owner of satellite needs US license by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    As long as the owner of the satellite is a US company, then they are subject to the US licensing laws. If Swarm wishes to relocate to, say, South Sudan, which probably doesn't have a well developed regulatory environment, then they can get a South Sudanese radio license. And operate from South Sudan, have their corporate headquarters in South Sudan, etc.

    Needs a license to do what? Sit around while their satellites orbit? If they revoke the license, do the satellites have to stop orbiting immediately?

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  19. So they will just move to India? by Phoeniyx · · Score: 1

    umm... how does this help the US technology scene? If India gave go ahead, and they launched from India, what is the issue? if they get complaints about operating in India, wouldn't they just move to another country? I mean Vancouver is less than 2 hrs from California, if they want to be "close".

  20. Re:frsot psot by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

    Yes. Which would you have a better chance of detecting and avoiding: a car driving towards you at 40mph, or an arrow fired at you at 40mph?

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  21. Who-what-now? by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 1, Funny

    An unauthorized launch would also call into question the ability of secondary satellite "ride-share" companies and foreign launch providers to comply with U.S. space regulations

    Um, who the fuck died and made the US government king of the whole fucking world, let alone gave it the power to "regulate" space?!? Has anyone else on Earth claimed the entire rest of the cosmos yet? Because if not, I, Hallux Fucking Sinister, (yes, that IS in fact what the "F" stands for,) hereby lay claim to all of the cosmos, all universes past, present, and future, as sole owner and god-king, including any multiverse or polyverse(s) or omniverse(s), etc... This unavoidably includes all regions located within my new domains and dominions, including the planet known as (among other things,) the Earth. I therefore own all of you, puny little humans. In my magnanimity, I hereby grant to my measly little subjects, general rights to exist, to have mass, and to occupy space, subject to the following condition, that no one may deny any OTHER one the same right, to exist, or to have mass, and occupy space, this right being throughout my domains and dominions. I require no special tribute or acknowledgement, because I, (unlike certain shitheads with ridiculous haircuts,) do not crave constant attention, like a petulant, tantrum-throwing child.

    HOWEVER, you, by availing yourself of this right I grant today, indemnify me against any and all harms that may befall you whatsoever, on behalf of not only yourselves, but your heirs, assignee(s), etc., throughout the universe of time and space. The universe can be a dangerous and uncertain place, and I don't want to get sued if you stumble around in it, unseeing, and stub your toe on a black hole, or something.

    --
    Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
  22. Re:frsot psot by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

    The relative velocities of objects in orbit can also be quite high. A typical low Earth orbit satellite has an altitude of less than 1200 miles, and a velocity of roughly 18,000 miles/hour. A velocity difference of even one tenth of one percent means an impact speed of 18 miles/hour. That may be survivable, but it will damage both. It will also change the orbit of both, in what is essentially a random direction. It's also likely to change the orbit of the smaller object much more than that of the larger object,

    Also, most LEO trajectories are similar. They're on a rough plane around the equator, as low as possible, because different orbits and higher altitudes cost much more fuel to achieve. At their typical orbital speed of 18,000 miles/hour and altitudes , they're sweeping through surprisingly large amounts of space throughout their lifetime. And as their orbits degrade, LEO satellites in general _do not carry a lot of fuel_, Typical launch costs today are roughly $50,000/pound. So armor for spacecraft, or fuel and rockets to change orbit after launch, are prohibitively expensive.

    LEO is also becoming prohibitively cluttered. NASA and other space agencies are doing their limited best to control launches and to track objects to avoid collisions, but all LEO satellites have their orbits degrade over time, and that degradation is not completely predictable. The smaller the object, the more difficult it is to track as its orbit degrades.

  23. Re: frsot psot by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    Clear option is to get up a firm in India, have it buy the US company run it as a subsidiary. Voila! No more US company to regulate. Have the main Indian company do the launch, FCC and FAA can go fly a kite if the Indian authorities approve.

  24. Re:WTF? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    Yep.

    The only problem is if your target market is the US, and you need FCC approval to sell your services there. Of course, there are 6.7 billion other people to market to, so maybe the US is really irrelevant.

  25. Re: frsot psot by jd · · Score: 2

    On the other hand, the FCC has openly stated it doesn't give a damn about treaties, obligations or laws, and can't be f'ed to regulate. Once they decided that was to be their firm policy, they lost the right to regulate.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  26. Re: frsot psot by Enigma2175 · · Score: 1

    But the US could then file a grievance regarding India the UN under the consultation clause, which was put into place because of the abovementioned space needles:

    "A State Party to the Treaty which has reason to believe that an activity or experiment planned by another State Party in outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, would cause potentially harmful interference with activities in the peaceful exploration and use of outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, may request consultation concerning the activity or experiment."

    --

    Enigma

  27. Re: frsot psot by nnull · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, the US has a bunch of idiot business owners and managers who skirt regulators all the time, without considering the consequences of their actions. Some costing lives, some costing major litigation. This isn't saying these other countries don't either, but we should be better, considering the rising trend of this.

  28. Wait a minute - I thought deregulation... by martinfb · · Score: 1

    Wait a minute - I thought deregulation was Ajit Pai's policy!

    Will somebody PLEASE get this idiot out of government?! PLEASE?!

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.