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Report Says Radioactive Monitors Failed at Nuclear Plant (apnews.com)

A new report says mistakes and mismanagement are to blame for the exposure of workers to radioactive particles at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in Washington state. From the report: Contractor CH2M Hill Plateau Remediation on Thursday released its evaluation of what went wrong in December during demolition of the nuclear reservation's highly contaminated Plutonium Finishing Plant. The Tri-City Herald reports the study said primary radioactive air monitors used at a highly hazardous Hanford project failed to detect contamination. Then, when the spread of contamination was detected, the report said steps taken to contain it didn't fully work.

At least 11 Hanford workers checked since mid-December inhaled or ingested small amounts of radioactive particles. Private and government vehicles were contaminated with radioactive particles. The sprawling site in southeastern Washington contains more than 50 million gallons of radioactive and toxic wastes in underground storage tanks. It's owned by the U.S. Department of Energy, which hires private contractors to manage the cleanup work. Hanford was established during World War II and made the plutonium for the atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki, Japan. The 560-square mile site also made most of the plutonium for the nation's nuclear arsenal during the Cold War.

83 comments

  1. Bad title... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Nuclear plant" makes it seem like it's a nuclear power plant. The nuclear power industry in the US has been extremely safe, and subject to extreme safeguards, to the point of unprofitability.

    No, Hanford is a former military plutonium production facility, dating from the early 1940s -- things were done hastily at first due to WW2, then without good oversight and often without knowing better. They made a hell of a radioactive mess that will take decades to clean up, assuming we can find a place to put the waste (WIPP in NM needs to open).

    If you're on the West Coast and worry about Fukushima, stop worrying, and start worrying about Hanford. If an old tank full of 50 year old radwaste (which is often nitrate-based, and thus also explosive) fails, it will be nasty.

    1. Re:Bad title... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Informative

      EDIT: There is actually a commercial nuclear oower plant on the Hanford site, but that isn't the problem.

    2. Re:Bad title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read it as radioactive monsters. If they've failed...

    3. Re:Bad title... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      Bad title because the monitors aren't radioactive (we hope!).

      Radiation Monitors, maybe.

      Radioactivity Monitors works.

      Radioactive monitors? Shows that neither submitter nor editor has a clue, at best....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    4. Re:Bad title... by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The nuclear power industry in the US has been extremely safe, and subject to extreme safeguards, to the point of unprofitability.

      You can't call it safe until the waste has been safely managed. Until the waste has been interred someplace sensible, nobody knows how safe nuclear will have turned out to be.

      If you're on the West Coast and worry about Fukushima, stop worrying, and start worrying about Hanford. If an old tank full of 50 year old radwaste (which is often nitrate-based, and thus also explosive) fails, it will be nasty.

      I can worry about two things at once! Three, if you count my ulcer.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Bad title... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      The high-level waste from commercial power that needs to be interred is a relatively small volume and solid. Dry-cask storage or reprocessing will work in the interim -- it's not going into the environment.

    6. Re:Bad title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      >If an old tank full of 50 year old radwaste (which is often nitrate-based, and thus also explosive) fails, it will be nasty.

      The tanks are already leaking. There are 177 tanks, 28 of which are double-shell and several of the double-shell detected leaks. The remaining single-shell tanks are undoubtedly leaking as they are of a similar design, but without the extra layer. You couldn't pay me enough to live down wind of Hanford, or to swim in the Columbia near it.

      http://www.king5.com/article/news/local/hanford/another-hanford-emergency-signs-of-another-leaking-tank/281-441263419

    7. Re:Bad title... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Coincidentally, I've read a part of the summary as "plutonium fishing plant". Do your monsters need to eat? I might have some food for them...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:Bad title... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can't call it safe until the waste has been safely managed. Until the waste has been interred someplace sensible, nobody knows how safe nuclear will have turned out to be.

      The kind of radioactive waste you're talking about isn't really "waste", since it can be processed to remove the elements that poison fission reactions and then turned back into perfectly functional fuel rods.

      And never mind the possibilities inherent in breeder reactors, which can turn U-238 (for which read: most of the uranium in a civilian reactor) and turn it into a useful fissionable.

      Alas, the anti-nuke hysterics have pretty much eliminated the possibility of reprocessing spent fuel rods, so we dump a metric-fuckton of usable uranium into cooling tanks, let it sit for decades (or forever, since the anti-nukes have fought tooth and nail to prevent the building of reprocessing facilities), then throw it away

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    9. Re:Bad title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The nuclear power industry in the US has been extremely safe...

      The word 'safe' isn't a measurement ... like the word 'organic' and 'natural', it's the favorite value judgement of promoters.

      I could write a whole book showing how very wrong that statement is. Luckily, I don't have to ... there are already lots of them out there ... for those who can read. Those of us with long memories don't need them.

    10. Re:Bad title... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      The kind of radioactive waste you're talking about isn't really "waste", since it can be processed to remove the elements that poison fission reactions and then turned back into perfectly functional fuel rods.

      Even where they do reprocess fuel, you don't get to reprocess all of it, and the waste from reprocessing is nasty af.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Bad title... by murdocj · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Alas, the "nuclear power is perfectly safe, it will be too cheap to meter" nonsense of the pro-nuke crowd has made everyone who can think justifiably suspicious that maybe nuclear reactors aren't such a great idea.

    12. Re:Bad title... by blindseer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't equate the failure of a plant processing nuclear weapons waste with a plant that is processing nuclear power waste. Anyone that can think should be justifiably suspicious of people that need to use the failure of a military weapon producing plant to prevent contamination to argue against civilian nuclear power.

      Nuclear power is in fact very safe. I'll see opinion articles mention the deaths caused by mining uranium and such as a case against nuclear power but make no mention of how many deaths there are from wind and solar power. This is lying by omission. If people want to make the case against nuclear power then they need to make an honest assessment of how dangerous the alternatives would be by comparison.

      Go ahead, show me how dangerous nuclear power is compared to wind, solar, natural gas, or whatever else you believe should replace it. I already know the numbers. I saw them here:
      https://www.nextbigfuture.com/...

      We should be moving to nuclear power based on lives saved alone. It's ability to compete on price with solar is another reason to use it. My source:
      https://www.lazard.com/perspec...

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    13. Re:Bad title... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You do realize this is not nuclear power plant waste, but rather cold war era waste that was never properly stored to start with? Commercial nuclear fuel waste is much much easier to deal with.

    14. Re:Bad title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "safe" is a relative term. In comparison to many other things we accept every day, in terms of harm and risk to people, nuclear power is extremely safe.

    15. Re:Bad title... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 3, Informative

      while nasty, it's also relatively short-lived in comparison to unprocessed waste (hundreds of years rather than tens of thousands) and very small volume in comparison to unprocessed waste. You're removing the 1-2% of really nasty shit that prevents the other 98% of fuel from being used.

      That 2% of really nasty shit can then be vitrified to make it easier to handle and store for the orders of magnitude less time until it becomes essentially inert.

      Now only if we were actually doing that.
       

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    16. Re:Bad title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the bag limit on blinky?

    17. Re:Bad title... by Agripa · · Score: 1

      If an old tank full of 50 year old radwaste (which is often nitrate-based, and thus also explosive) fails, it will be nasty.

      Just because something is nitrate based does not make it explosive. Reactions with nitric acid to form soluble metal nitrates are common for extraction and purification. The big advantage of plutonium over uranium for bombs is that it is extracted chemically instead of via expensive isotope separation.

    18. Re:Bad title... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      in this case, the waste is often chemically explosive.

    19. Re:Bad title... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Don't equate the failure of a plant processing nuclear weapons waste with a plant that is processing nuclear power waste. Anyone that can think should be justifiably suspicious of people that need to use the failure of a military weapon producing plant to prevent contamination to argue against civilian nuclear power.

      Nobody is doing that. Someone brought up a point, and I addressed it.

      Nuclear power is in fact very safe. I'll see opinion articles mention the deaths caused by mining uranium and such as a case against nuclear power but make no mention of how many deaths there are from wind and solar power.

      Wind and solar power mostly kill installers and maintenance personnel. Nuclear is harmful to everyone, like coal. And again, you still don't get to call it safe until the waste is safely managed, which it mostly ain't. It's just sitting around waiting for something bad to happen.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re:Bad title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "which is often nitrate-based"?

      Got anything corroborating that? I've not seen anything saying such...

  2. Bad title indeed by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

    If your monitors are radioactive, safely dispose of them and buy new ones!

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  3. Lets hope this gets more funding for Transatomic by Skinkie · · Score: 1

    Every time storage or bad management of nuclear waste comes up it reminds me of Leslie Dewan. If the Transatomic design just converts the waste to energy that can solve many scenario's. The question is: would it be able to work on this kind of plutonium waste as well?

    --
    Support Eachother, Copy Dutch Property!
  4. Wow by ArtemaOne · · Score: 2

    You look absolutely radiant today

    1. Re:Wow by bobbied · · Score: 1

      You look absolutely radiant today

      Thanks for the glowing complement.. But I'm a bit blue today..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  5. Did any of the workers get superpowers? by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    That's how it works, right?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Did any of the workers get superpowers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heard that some photographer was bitten by a spider.

  6. Re:Lets hope this gets more funding for Transatomi by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If the Transatomic design just converts the waste to energy that can solve many scenario's.

    The Transatomic design doesn't do anything yet, and clean nuclear energy is always 10 years away. Also, Leslie Dewan is mostly famous for being famous at this point. She's the engineering equivalent of a Kardashian until she actually gets one of her products to market.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  7. yup, you're gay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it says so in your reflection!

    now you have unlocked a door to a whole new world!

    so many new adventures for you!

  8. radioactive monitors? by twms2h · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't that be "radioactivity monitors"?

    1. Re:radioactive monitors? by munch117 · · Score: 2

      See, there's the problem: They should have bought regular monitors, not radioactive ones. They tend to decay over time.

  9. So, what kind of contamination? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

    Alpha emitters (like Plutonium) are generally a non-issue for practical purposes. You might get cancer 30 years from now if the stuff is in your lungs. Or not. But no acute effects.

    Betas are worse, but I can't think of anything that should be emitting betas in a nuclear facility.

    Now gammas are, relatively speaking, killers. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any gamma-emitters associated with nuclear power, but we're not really talking nuclear power here, we're talking nuclear weapon production. Which takes a special kind of reactor, with its own, special, problems....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    1. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      Actually, alphas pretty bad if they get inside you. Alphas are stopped by skin inside the body, but once they get incorporated into bone or bone marrow, the alpha particles get to interact directly with cancer-prone cells. Bad news.

      So eating or breathing in alpha emitters is still not recommended.

    2. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Actually plutonium is not only radioactive but highly toxic.

      The 50 : 50 lethal dose is in the milli gram range ... and it does not take 30 years to die from it. Plutonium is wandering into the bone marrow ... leukemia etc. will happen quite quickly.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      What is the lethal dose of plutonium? I went to look it up. About 22 milligrams.
      http://www.newworldencyclopedi...

      The toxicity of plutonium is in dispute; nuclear industry advocates point to the low chemical toxicity of plutonium and ability of a worker to hold a kilogram brick of the material without protection; if inhaled or digested, however, plutonium's effects due to radioactivity overwhelm the effects of plutonium's chemical interactions with the body, and the LD50 dose for intravenous injection in an adult human weighing 70 kilograms is calculated to be approximately 22 milligrams (based on extrapolation from tests on dogs).

      What substance is also lethal at that dose? Tylenol.
      http://www.newworldencyclopedi...

      The toxic dose of acetaminophen is highly variable. In adults, single doses above 10 grams or 140 mg/kg have a reasonable likelihood of causing toxicity. In adults, single doses of more than 25 grams have a high risk of lethality.

      For plutonium to be lethal someone would have to have 22 milligrams of plutonium injected into their bloodstream. Eating an equivalent dose of Tylenol would be just as lethal.

      Plutonium should be handled with care but let's be honest about just how lethal it might be.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    4. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The way I read your post, the 22 milligram LD50 for plutonium assumes 70kg body weight or 0.3143 mg/kg.
      The 140mg/kg LD50 (assuming, it says reasonable likelihood) value for Tylenol is 445 times as large.

    5. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      IIUC, systematic Plutonium is a lot worse than you are indicating. And tends to lodge in the bone marrow, leading to leukemia. And my guess is that "30 years" is an estimate which is assuming a minimal exposure. At one point, IIRC, what they recommended was "if that gets in an open wound, go for immediate high amputation". That was probably a bit extreme, and I don't know what it was based on, but it makes your "No problem" evaluation seem extremely dubious.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    6. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually plutonium is not only radioactive but highly toxic.

      The 50 : 50 lethal dose is in the milli gram range ... and it does not take 30 years to die from it. Plutonium is wandering into the bone marrow ... leukemia etc. will happen quite quickly.

      Did you know there are extremely lethal poisons, in quite large quantities, used in manufacture of solar panels? How about many of the other things we manufacture where we accept highly lethal toxins? Why does Plutonium, which is in such trace quantities for even the worst nuclear accidents, scare you so much more?

    7. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      That's why we need an edit button on Slashdot, because I'm an idiot for mixing my units. Instead of Tylenol compare the toxicity of plutonium with that of iron, nicotine, or lead.

      People are unlikely to eat pure iron but it's in every multivitamin, and people will cook with steel pots and pans. We are surrounded by iron substances, and yet people don't throw fits over it's toxicity. Don't eat it and if you are handling in a way that it might produce small particles then wear a mask.

      Same with lead, it's in our car batteries. Don't go licking the terminals to test if it has a good charge, use a meter for that.

      Caffeine poisoning is a thing. Not quite as toxic as iron or lead but slamming a few energy drinks can make a healthy person keel over.

      Remember that the 22 milligram lethal dose for plutonium is for direct injection into the bloodstream, not how much is eaten. I'll see pictures of these workers on these sites and they are always wearing face masks and goggles. They'd have to be violating safety protocol to get anything close to a lethal dose of plutonium.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    8. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Plutonium should be handled with care but let's be honest about just how lethal it might be.
      As a heavy metal is it about 4 times as dangerous as mercury.

      As a nuclear/radioactive material it is the deadliest on the planet. Hm ... not sure about Polonium ... we could again make a google / link war :D

      No idea why you pick the stupid links instead of the interesting one.

      So: stay stupid.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    9. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      As a heavy metal is it about 4 times as dangerous as mercury.

      Then don't eat it. Airborne particle detectors not picking up the plutonium that isn't airborne is not a "failure" in the detectors. Getting upset about that is nonsensical.

      not sure about Polonium

      Then look it up. Polonium-210 has a half life of less than 140 days, and this waste processing site was created for the disposal of World War II and Cold War era nuclear waste. The polonium is all gone by now.
      http://www.newworldencyclopedi...

      we could again make a google / link war

      To do that you'd have to actually link to something.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    10. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It can get you right away too. Ask Alexander Litvinenko.

    11. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      And tends to lodge in the bone marrow, leading to leukemia. And my guess is that "30 years" is an estimate which is assuming a minimal exposure. At one point, IIRC, what they recommended was "if that gets in an open wound, go for immediate high amputation".

      No, amputation as treatment of exposure was never the protocol.

      https://warisboring.com/the-sc...

      They'd fish out the particles big enough to see and could recover without doing permanent damage to tissue. If it was too small to see then it was not considered a health hazard. The long term effects on health are difficult to measure given that the few people that have died since their exposure were heavy smokers (lung cancer did them in) and victims of motor vehicle accidents (can't blame that on the plutonium).

      Acute radiation exposure is known to produce organ failure and death in a matter of hours or days. Chronic exposure is expected to produce a risk of cancers in bone, marrow, thyroid, and other sensitive organs. There is no evidence of this in the people with known exposure. Dogs injected with plutonium have died relatively quickly but that's an unusual and quite deliberate form of exposure, not something likely as an accident. Inhaling plutonium would likely raise the risk of health problems if those particles remained in the lungs. The lungs will naturally clear out particles that are inhaled and gets dumped into the digestive tract, where it is expelled out the "tailpipe". Any plutonium in the blood is filtered out by the urinary tract.

      Plutonium may get incorporated into the bones but it has a half life of thousands of years, which for someone that might expect a lifespan measured in decades means that there would have to be a lot of plutonium before the decay emissions exceed that of naturally occurring potassium and such. I'm sure someone could look up a "banana equivalent dose" to get an idea of the hazard.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    12. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Well, I can't remember where I read the thing I was originally paraphrasing, and your link is rather explicit. (I'd recommend anyone interested in this to check it out. https://warisboring.com/the-sc...

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    13. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Remember that the 22 milligram lethal dose for plutonium is for direct injection into the bloodstream, not how much is eaten.

      Wow - you just lie with impunity - there was no direct injection into the bloodstream. In the citation for the source of the very article you cite the information comes from a well known accident at Los Alamos and refers to external exposure, not to internal exposure.

      You're a liar blindseer.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    14. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by MrKaos · · Score: 2

      I suggest the thing you are missing is these studies all refer to purified plutonium. They don't cover the oxide or chloride of Plutonium which can be organically bound *inside* the body.

      You don't expect the body to digest pure iron, it's ingested as an oxide, the same is true for plutonium. You can't ignore important details as if they don't exist. That just implies you have a political agenda.

      The important thing to remember about isotope decay is it is the inverse of Euler's constant when it is unbound and four times that when it is organically bound. This suggest that a lot more alpha/beta/gamma radiation is absorbed when a radio-isotope is organically bound in the body.

      It seems to me that you are attempting to mislead and manipulate people and I'd suggest your posts are more nuclear PR than information. If I can see through it, anybody can.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    15. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      What is the lethal dose of plutonium? I went to look it up. About 22 milligrams. http://www.newworldencyclopedi...

      This is just plain false.

      Here is a citation from The Human Plutonium Injection Experiments:

      In July 1945, Wright Langham insisted that the 5-microgram standard be reduced by a factor of 5 on the basis of animal experiments that showed that plutonium was distributed in the bone differently, and more dangerously, than radium. Thus, the maximum permissible body burden for plutonium was set at 1 microgram.

      That's because they began to understand that assessing the lethal dose of plutonium is far more complicated than just swallowing or injecting purified plutonium. Do we find purified plutonium in the environment, no we don't because it's man made. Once plutonium gets into the environment that is when it forms other compounds that are more readily absorbed and organically bound in the body.

      These are the salient details that you haven't communicated.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    16. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The polonium is all gone by now.

      You're probably correct anyway, but your reasoning is very, very wrong. Polonium could very well be generated as a decay product of something heavier, as opposed to just starting out as one of the original ingredients of the waste. In fact, if you read the link, it's currently generated now from the decay (beta) of Bi-210.

    17. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      You're a liar blindseer.

      No, you can't read.

      The direct injection I mentioned was that of experiments performed on dogs, not the accident at Los Alamos.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    18. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With enough hard work, nuclear weapons can be nearly as dangerous to your enemies as they are to yourself!

    19. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Polonium could very well be generated as a decay product of something heavier, as opposed to just starting out as one of the original ingredients of the waste. In fact, if you read the link, it's currently generated now from the decay (beta) of Bi-210.

      Bi-210 has a half life of 5 days, there's none of that left to decay either. If you look at the four main decay chains polonium appears on them but only in isotopes that last for fractions of a second or perhaps days. It's all gone by now.

      The isotope that people are all concerned about, polonium-210, has a half life of 138 days. That's about 3 half lives per year, meaning about 1/8 of it remains from the year before. After 30 years that's 80 half lives. It's all gone by now.

      There is no polonium on this site, not enough that anyone would have to be concerned with anyway.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    20. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mr Kaos is just a fear-monger troll when it comes to nuclear. He calls everyone a liar, its easier than presenting facts of his own. Next will come a long list of scary sounding stuff, with actual risk information missing of course.

    21. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2 word answer:
      Nuclear Boogeyman

    22. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the lethal dose of plutonium? I went to look it up. About 22 milligrams.
      http://www.newworldencyclopedi...

      This is just plain false.

      Here is a citation from The Human Plutonium Injection Experiments:

      In July 1945, Wright Langham insisted that the 5-microgram standard be reduced
      by a factor of 5 on the basis of animal experiments that showed that plutonium was
      distributed in the bone differently, and more dangerously, than radium. Thus,
      the
      maximum permissible body burden for plutonium was set at 1 microgram.

      That's because they began to understand that assessing the lethal dose of plutonium is far more complicated than just swallowing or injecting purified plutonium. Do we find purified plutonium in the environment, no we don't because it's man made. Once plutonium gets into the environment that is when it forms other compounds that are more readily absorbed and organically bound in the body.

      These are the salient details that you haven't communicated.

      Body Burden = internal amount.

      Max Permissable = much much lower than is actually known to cause harm.

      What you won't do is present one plausible scenario where a person internally takes on an unsafe amount of plutonium.

    23. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      You're a liar blindseer.

      No, you can't read.

      Or the article you linked to refers to it as cite-note 13 instead of 14. It doesn't change that you're lying to twist the truth to suit your political agenda.

      The direct injection I mentioned was that of experiments performed on dogs, not the accident at Los Alamos.

      Every other line in your post refers to 'people' or 'healthy workers' but the one line referring to pu injection was about injection into dogs, not injecting into humans. I suggest you were attempting to mislead people into believing that 22milligrams of pu was injected into humans.

      What citation 14 says is For example, the LD 50 (30) for dogs after intravenous injection of plutonium is about 0.32 milligram per kilogram of tissue. Assuming this animal dose also applies to humans, an LD 50 (30) by intravenous injection for an average human of 70 kilograms would be about 22 milligrams.

      So, it's an assumption and they didn't actually inject 22 milligrams of pu into people as you attempt to claim.

      When it was injected into people they were breaching ethical standards and not informing the patients what they were doing by injecting Five micrograms into a patient. That's 4400 times less than what you claim, and 22000 times less than the established standard.

      So if you aren't lying, you'd be perfectly comfortable having 22 milligrams of pu injected into you intravenously, wouldn't you?

      Your Nuclear Ideology, is just that. Where you can't find facts to fit your narrative you either make them up or you twist the truth and lie. You left out the part that it was injected into dog, you left out the part that it was an assumption and implied 22 milligrams was injected into humans.

      You were attempting to propagate your Nuclear Idealism. You were attempting to mislead people into believing something false and even my error with the poorly constructed links to the citations doesn't change that.

      The only error I made was what you were lying about.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    24. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      What you won't do is present one plausible scenario where a person internally takes on an unsafe amount of plutonium.

      What SANE person would do that willingly.

      What you won't do is understand bio-accumulation.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    25. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Mr Kaos is just a fear-monger troll when it comes to nuclear.

      It's not my fault you are ignorant.

      He calls everyone a liar, its easier than presenting facts of his own.

      This is the first time I've felt the need.

      Next will come a long list of scary sounding stuff, with actual risk information missing of course.

      Thanks for coming atomicalgebra.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    26. Re: So, what kind of contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That isn't how radioactive decay chains work. If it was, there wouldn't be any radon on the planet.

    27. Re:So, what kind of contamination? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The point is that inhaling Plutonium gets it into your body just like eating it.
      No idea why you think it is a difference.

      We can talk again in 10 years ... depending on how much the workers inhaled most of them will be dead by then.

      Perhaps there is a special treatment and they could "wash it out", no idea about that and to lazy to google.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  10. It was homer's job to keep that working but he by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    It was homer's job to keep that working but he did not get it down as they did not hire an assistant

  11. How is this possible? by EETech1 · · Score: 2

    How can you decontaminate a nuclear waste site, and not have functioning radiation detection?

    Wouldn't you think there would have to be 100 different monitors around the area between workers, and equipment, the existing facility monitors, and safety systems for the area?

    1. Re: How is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because Hanford is cheap on important shit and management is idiots. It also does not help that all the DOE folks are sitting in town doing fuck all.

      I have asked repeatedly why there is no breathing air piped at PFP and around the tank farms. (Not a 10-15 minute air tank, a dedicated piped system of breathing air that you plug into. More common in really hot plants or places dealing with sulfur.)

      Anyway, Hanford sucks but it is otherwise 2-3 billion a year into the local economy.

    2. Re:How is this possible? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      How can you decontaminate a nuclear waste site, and not have functioning radiation detection?

      Because Hanford is a military site, it's exempt from the stringent monitoring required for commercial facilities.

  12. Re:Lets hope this gets more funding for Transatomi by EETech1 · · Score: 1

    "engineering equivalent of a Kardashian "

    Ouch:)

  13. Of course they didn't work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not in the interest of the money or the government (but I repeat myself) for them to work.

  14. FTFY by sfled · · Score: 1

    "... it's being sidelined to avoid getting in the way of agency Administrator Scott Pruitt's anti-science agenda..."

    --
    I'm not really a web designer, I just play one on the Internet.
  15. Phew! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    For a moment I thought the headline read “Report Says Radioactive Monsters Failed at Nuclear Plant”.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Phew! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fortunately all the Monsters are operating at full capacity.

  16. For Sale - Fixer Upper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For Sale: 50 million gallons of radioactive and toxic waste in underground storage tanks. On the banks of the Columbia river, just upstream from Kennewick, The Dalles and beautiful Portland. Financing available to qualified buyers.

  17. LFTR is a superior waste-consuming reactor by KonoWatakushi · · Score: 1

    Faux-environmentalists love to misrepresent "spent fuel" as "nuclear waste", even though >96% of the former it is just unused fuel, with the balance rapidly decaying to stability. Readers should appreciate that nuclear is the only energy source to responsibly manage its waste, and that it is only possible because nuclear produces such a trivial amount of waste to start with. None of the resource-intensive "renewable" branded sources have even been asked to do so.

    Many advanced reactors can recycle that "waste" into new fuel, but there is one approach that stands apart from the rest. LFTR49 can consume spent fuel 90 times faster than other approaches, while producing new fuel and incredibly valuable medical isotopes unique to the thorium fuel cycle. It is also the most thorough waste burner, yet has the simplest fuel reprocessing. Using thorium enables the plants to operate with a fraction of the fuel, allowing many more to be built with the given resource, and producing virtually no long-term waste.

    Flibe Energy may not offer the lowest hanging fruit among advanced reactor designs, but LFTR is uniquely able to reap the full benefits of the thorium fuel cycle: breeding in the thermal spectrum and simple chemical reprocessing. This allows LFTR to truly close the nuclear fuel cycle and run efficiently and indefinitely on nothing but the thorium byproduct of existing rare-earth mining. The online chemical reprocessing allows extraction of many valuable isotopes, and even the "waste" heat from the plant can drive industrial processes like desalination or synfuel production. Revenue from such byproducts also provides an opportunity to reduce the cost of electricity produced.

    1. Re:LFTR is a superior waste-consuming reactor by HiThere · · Score: 1

      The problem is, those potential reactors to burn the "spent fuel" (which isn't all decaying that rapidly, though of course the most radioactive parts are) don't exist. They are designs, which might or might not work, which might or might not be cost effective, and which might or might not eventually be built.

      Until they exist, spent fuel is radioactive waste. And there's nothing "false" about that, or about worrying about that. Until that problem (and a few administrative issues) are dealt with, I really can't support fission power.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    2. Re:LFTR is a superior waste-consuming reactor by KonoWatakushi · · Score: 0

      Only for nuclear would people consider a concentrated energy resource to be "waste", and strain to justify application of that label.

      The fact remains that nuclear power makes the least demand on natural resources including land, and produces the least waste of any energy source, by far. Those pursuing the shutdown of nuclear, and hindering commercialization of improved and demonstrated technologies, demonstrate extreme hypocrisy by claiming to be environmentalists. You are either complicit or unwitting tools of the fossil industry; either directly, or by proxy of renewable interests which can only slightly reduce their use, and at great cost.

      Nuclear reprocessing is already done at scale, and used to recover natural uranium and separate plutonium for MOX fuel. LFTR doesn't even need the plutonium to be separated, so the processing can be much simpler, and involves little more than pulling the uranium out. The products are essentially harmless natural uranium, and the remaining mess (4%) includes the actinides which drive long-term waste concerns, and can be fed directly to a LFTR.

    3. Re:LFTR is a superior waste-consuming reactor by HiThere · · Score: 1

      The problem is that it *is* a concentrated energy source, and it's being handled as waste. Because it's a concentrated energy source it's dangerous. Because it's being handled as waste, it's not being cared for properly. This is a very bad combination.

      Nuclear reprocessing can be used to cut down certain radionuclides, and when done (not usually) it reduced the problem. But a fast breeder, or a couple of other designs, are suppose to burn all the radioactive isotopes. And they haven't been built and aren't being built. The government would rather let nuclear "waste" accumulate, or bury it in a pit for future generations to deal with, so just ignore the problem. (I count storing it on site as essentially ignoring the problem.)

      The way the government is dealing with "nuclear waste" makes it extremely for me to even give tepid support to fission power. The "ostrich approach" to problem solving is almost never a good idea.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  18. Dixy Lee Ray's Memorial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dixy Lee Ray was the one person who could have taken control of this situation. Instead she chose to protect her political career and pass the problem to future generations. In other words - to you and your children.

    She not only chaired the Atomic Energy Commission, but she also became the Governor of Washington. For a while, she even held the position of Assistant Secretary of State for Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs. Her heritage is one of the most mismanaged nuclear catastrophes on earth. The Hanford nuclear contamination zone was not caused by a natural disaster.

    In the end, she became a mouthpiece for the nuclear industry and would sacrifice anything for self-aggrandizement. Edward Teller called Ray "a very wonderful lady", but Ralph Nader, called Ray's administration "gubernatorial lunacy."

    Thanks Dixie.

  19. Airborne particle detectors did not fail by blindseer · · Score: 2

    But the monitors did not detect airborne contamination in December, possibly because some of the particles that spread were too heavy to stay aloft.

    They are calling it a "failure" of the airborne particle detectors to detect particles that were not in the air. If the particles are not in the air then people aren't going to breathe them in. It might collect on the soles of their boots but if they are licking the soles of their boots then they need to be checked for mental issues first, then radiation contamination second.

    It sounds like there were failures in managing the spread of radioactive material but this mention of a "failure" of airborne particle detectors is not one of them.

    Radiation is everywhere and if we are going to regulate its spread then we need to have sane regulations. If Grand Central Station were a nuclear power plant then it would be shutdown for exceeding the annual acceptable dose of radiation for employees.
    https://io9.gizmodo.com/grand-...

    We need to take another look at our regulation of radioactive material. If it is as dangerous as the law says it is then we need to close off Grand Central Station and declare it a superfund site. If Grand Central Station is in fact safe to inhabit then so should any other place with an equivalent level of radioactivity.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:Airborne particle detectors did not fail by HiThere · · Score: 1

      If it's dust particles, some of it will get into the air. If it's dust on people's feet, then they're going to be shaking off fragments into the air with every step.

      That said, I'll agree that something that heavy wouldn't float around in the air for long. But small particles, even of very heavy metals, are light, and will spread attached to larger particles of lighter stuff which are dust. With every step people raise small (or sometimes not so small) clouds of dust from the stuff they step on.

      OTOH, perhaps the counters should be placed below knee height.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  20. Re:Lets hope this gets more funding for Transatomi by blindseer · · Score: 1

    Leslie Dewan and Transatomic has had to walk back their claims after being challenged quite publicly by competing nuclear engineers. It became quite obvious when challenged by people that know what they are talking about that the math doesn't add up. This forced Transatomic to become nothing more than another variation on the molten salt reactor (MSR) theme. In direct competition are MSR variants like LFTR, MCFR, MSW, TMSR-LF, and DMSR/IMSR. There are also solid fuel competitors like PHWR, TMSR-SF, MSCR, and FHR.

    I have to wonder if Transatomic can be trusted because of their rather over the top claims from the beginning. It seems that they are more honest and realistic in their claims lately but can even this be trusted now?

    Companies like Flibe Energy, Terrestrial Power, and ThorCon, seem to be dominating in North America because they've been at this longer, have experienced leadership, and technology that is evolutionary (as opposed to revolutionary). They all compete in some ways and complement each other in other ways. Now that Transatomic offers reactors that have been shown to not be the waste-burners as originally demonstrated they now have to discover or create a market among the competition in North America.

    I have to wonder how much of Transatomic's fame is because Leslie Dewan is a graduate of MIT and looks good in high heels, tight pants, and lipstick. I'm sure she's a very intelligent woman, and she claims to be something of a "tomboy", but it seems she likes the cameras and the cameras like her.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  21. Re:Lets hope this gets more funding for Transatomi by Skinkie · · Score: 1

    Could you maybe post a reference that they "reduced" the claimns not being a waste burner anymore?

    --
    Support Eachother, Copy Dutch Property!
  22. Re:Lets hope this gets more funding for Transatomi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transatomic_Power&oldid=830050922

    Reference #7

  23. Just getting tired on these articles. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Disclaimer: I went on a rant here... Parts of it is a bit offtopic, but this is not only a reply to the article, but about these types of misleading articles that gets posted.
    Sorry for any spelling-errors or incoherence below, but this willful misleading and witch-hunt on anything with nuclear in it's name is irritating me.

    I care about the environment, and i think we should continuously review our stand and plan to build things that will have the least amount of impact, but still allows our society to function.. Nuclear power, but maybe not the older plants in use, is a good way to do this for reducing the amount of CO2 and other pollution we release.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    So the top 3 there is related to nuclear weapons.. The remaining nuclear reactor disaster of Chernobyl was just a huge human screw-up where they disabled the safety systems on purpose and then doing that on a reactor that only had one of the most basic containment buildings around it.

    Take hydro-electric..
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Take coal.
    https://endcoal.org/health/ ... Only around 800000 people per *YEAR* die prematurely..

    For solar/wind do some research yourself, but don't forget to include the pollution created from producing those panels and batteries needed to keep us going..

    So i would call nuclear power fairly safe compared to the rest..

    One issue is that the public has been fed with incorrect information, like number of death's caused by chernobyl.
    http://www.who.int/mediacentre...

    5 SEPTEMBER 2005 | GENEVA - A total of up to 4000 people could eventually die of radiation exposure from the Chernobyl nuclear power plant (NPP) accident nearly 20 years ago, an international team of more than 100 scientists has concluded.

    As of mid-2005, however, fewer than 50 deaths had been directly attributed to radiation from the disaster, almost all being highly exposed rescue workers, many who died within months of the accident but others who died as late as 2004.

    https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm...

    The Chernobyl accident's severe radiation effects killed 28 of the site's 600 workers in the first four months after the event. Another 106 workers received high enough doses to cause acute radiation sickness. Two workers died within hours of the reactor explosion from non-radiological causes. Another 200,000 cleanup workers in 1986 and 1987 received doses of between 1 and 100 rem (The average annual radiation dose for a U.S. citizen is about .6 rem). Chernobyl cleanup activities eventually required about 600,000 workers, although only a small fraction of these workers were exposed to elevated levels of radiation. Government agencies continue to monitor cleanup and recovery workers' health. (UNSCEAR 2008, pg. 47, 58, 107, and 119)

    But the numbers that has been fed to the public from organizations like Greenpeace:
    https://www.greenpeace.org/arc...

    31 workers died shortly afterwards. A total of between 600,000 and 800,000 men were involved in the clean-up operations in Chernobyl up to 1989. Of these men, 300,000 received radiation doses 500 times the limit for the public over one year. Today, the ones who still survive are still suffering from the damage to their health.

    How many of them have died to date from the disaster is a controversial question. According to government agencies in the three former Soviet

  24. Were the Detectors Made in China? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If so, no problem, working as designed.

  25. Detectors Built in China? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If so, no problema.