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JavaScript Rules But Microsoft Programming Languages Are On the Rise (zdnet.com)

Microsoft languages seem to be hitting the right note with coders across ops, data science, and app development. From a report: JavaScript remains the most popular programming language, but two offerings from Microsoft are steadily gaining, according to developer-focused analyst firm RedMonk's first quarter 2018 ranking. RedMonk's rankings are based on pull requests in GitHub, as well as an approximate count of how many times a language is tagged on developer knowledge-sharing site Stack Overflow. Based on these figures, RedMonk analyst Stephen O'Grady reckons JavaScript is the most popular language today as it was last year. In fact, nothing has changed in RedMonk's top 10 list with the exception of Apple's Swift rising to join its predecessor, Objective C, in 10th place. The top 10 programming languages in descending order are JavaScript, Java, Python, C#, C++, CSS, Ruby, and C, with Swift and Objective-C in tenth.

TIOBE's top programming language index for March consists of many of the same top 10 languages though in a different order, with Java in top spot, followed by C, C++, Python, C#, Visual Basic .NET, PHP, JavaScript, Ruby, and SQL. These and other popularity rankings are meant to help developers see which skills they should be developing. Outside the RedMonk top 10, O'Grady highlights a few notable changes, including an apparent flattening-out in the rapid ascent of Google's back-end system language, Go.

76 of 141 comments (clear)

  1. typescript? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What about typescript? It's javascript, it's microsoft, #overload

  2. JavaScript Rules by Hognoxious · · Score: 1, Troll

    "JavaScript Rules". Who submitted this, Beavis & Butthead?

    Heh heh. Ada sucks. Huh huh.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:JavaScript Rules by superwiz · · Score: 2

      Heh heh. Ada sucks. Huh huh.

      A gentleman doesn't kiss and tell.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  3. Using Stack Overflow is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So the most fucked up and confusing languages will generate the most questions and get labeled as the most popular?

    1. Re:Using Stack Overflow is stupid by DavidHumus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or the language with the most newbies.

    2. Re:Using Stack Overflow is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's the only way Microsoft languages can show higher on a list. And they they pay someone to write about the list so it sounds new and informative even when the list is the same as it was the year before and possibly the year before that. Usually adding wording about Microsoft x, y or z picking up share get sprinkled around too.

      Marketing, marketing marketing or was that Developers, developers, developers during a marketing conference.
         

    3. Re:Using Stack Overflow is stupid by DCFusor · · Score: 1

      Oh, for mod points...^^^^

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    4. Re:Using Stack Overflow is stupid by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      Beat me to it.

      How about a study ranking the languages that seem to be the most reliable -- as in they've been used for decades, continue to be used, run systems un-upgraded for decades, and need little-to-no new help from random strangers?

      In my career, I've been using Perl since 1997, when I abandoned lotus notes. I've still got production code from back then -- it's funny to see some of my really old comments from half-a-life ago.

      I'll say this for perl: like it or hate it, the documentation is everywhere and is incredibly complete -- that's no surprise after so many decades.

  4. BS by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a guy who has spent most of his time in Microsoft dev environments, I can tell you the momentum is going in exactly the opposite direction: "how can we dump Microsoft/Oracle/IBM and how fast can we do it" is the current direction of the smart enterprise.

    1. Re:BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Thank god,

      I hate Oracle and Microsoft products. Oracle is expensive af and doesn't offer much that other databases can't offer. Don't even get me started on that POS APEX

      Is it just me or is it hard to find negative opinions or well written reviews of why Oracle products are bad? Does Oracle send out the gestapo when someone has a dissenting opinion of them that isn't a random comment?

    2. Re:BS by fred6666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course. Just like you can use Swift for something else than developing for Apple products.
      Yet, they are not used outside mother's basements.

      Could you name one major piece of software written in C# not specifically made to be executed on Windows? Without a visual studio project file in the source repository?

    3. Re:BS by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, and I've tried it. However, outside of non-trivial applications (and perhaps internal business apps developed with Xamarin), cross-platform support for C#-based apps is pretty poor.

    4. Re:BS by cheesybagel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's nothing wrong with Java in a business environment and elsewhere. The issue is with the way people THINK Java should be programmed, with design patterns, and Hungarian notation. The language itself and the runtime has its warts but it ain't actually THAT bad.

      Now for high performance computing I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Floating point performance in Java sucks and the mandatory garbage collection is another issue. Then again most of the proposed Java replacement have the exact same issues. Go also has a GC for example. Python is great, to write prototypes, but it has even worse performance than Java.

    5. Re:BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      True at my work! Currently re-writing the universe using C++ on Linux. Legacy stuff is C# on Windows. No one so much as reminisces about any "good old days". All devs are happier now.

    6. Re:BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      A lot of Unity games use C# and it uses mono to do it. I mean, you could also use it with Visual Studio and in that case you will get a solution and project file, but you don't have to. Unity3D games run on IOS, HTML5, linux and MacOS.

    7. Re:BS by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      There's definitely some of that going on as developers try to pad their resumes with the likes of go and rust. At least the ruby fad seems to be dying down a bit. I still get way too many recruiters approaching me about ruby positions, and I really don't think I can maintain another production project in that language.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    8. Re:BS by Kjella · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As a guy who has spent most of his time in Microsoft dev environments, I can tell you the momentum is going in exactly the opposite direction: "how can we dump Microsoft/Oracle/IBM and how fast can we do it" is the current direction of the smart enterprise.

      Every enterprise customer thinks what they have is terrible but usually end up switching to a different enterprise vendor and discover that it's equally terrible. Then they try home brew and discover that people develop in ten different languages with a hundred different frameworks and technologies and that Ruby on Rails, Python, PHP, Node.JS and ASP.Net don't mix well and start running consolidation and standardization projects and if you're really unlucky they call in SAP or some other big ERP to gut the whole mess. We still have a solution written in VB6, whatever you pick now expect you'll be stuck with it 10-20 years from now long after the fad is over and it's legacy technology you want to kill with fire.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re:BS by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      If you have a program handling big amounts of data, in a kind of random fashion, then GC is completely irrelevant.
      Malloc and free, or new/delete have the same overhead. And then again you still see people do stuff like:

      if (ptr != NULL) {
            delete ptr;
            ptr = NULL;
      }

      And then come and claim a GC is slower ...

      Sorry, from 100 C++ programmers there is probably 1 who can write a program that beats Java's garbage collector.
      I rather have 100 Java programmers where 99 don't need to care about memory, and 1 who takes care for the hard cases.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:BS by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      As a guy who has spent most of his time in Microsoft dev environments, I can tell you the momentum is going in exactly the opposite direction: "how can we dump Microsoft/Oracle/IBM and how fast can we do it" is the current direction of the smart enterprise. [Emphasis added]

      That may indeed be true IF you consider that most enterprises are NOT smart.

      The enterprise world is a Dilbertian distopia.

    11. Re:BS by Prien715 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's a couple hundred. ...and that's just games based on the Unity game engine. One game, Hearthstone, has over 10 million players and its client runs on iOS/Android/Windows/macOS.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    12. Re:BS by fred6666 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nice try, but

      The Unity runtime is written in C/C++. This runtime is used in any build you create using the editor - for webplayers and plugins it is installed separate from your build, whereas it is included in it for stand-alones and other platforms such as iPhone and Wii.

      The editor is built on the Unity runtime and additionally includes editor-specific C/C++ binaries.

      Wrapped around the Unity core is a layer which allows for .net access to core functionality. This layer is used for user scripting and for most of the editor UI.

      So most of the important code is C/C++.
      And nothing tells me that API it isn't being developed on Windows using Visual Studio.
      The main platform of these games is probably Windows, even though their very first game was developped for Mac OS X.

    13. Re:BS by fred6666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I do.
      But there is no killer application on Linux requiring mono. Hence, most people don't even bother installing it.
      Unlike say, perl and python, which are must-have.
      Is there a popular desktop environment, web browser, or even text editor for Linux written in C#? I understand some kid probably wrote a text editor for fun, but I meant something actually used?

    14. Re:BS by geoskd · · Score: 1

      Sorry, from 100 C++ programmers there is probably 1 who can write a program that beats Java's garbage collector.

      There are 5 of us in my office, and three of us can run rings around the java GC. The simple reason is that good programmers understand how not to mess up caching. Bad programmers use Java and or C#.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    15. Re:BS by geoskd · · Score: 1

      if (ptr != NULL) { delete ptr; ptr = NULL; } And then come and claim a GC is slower ...

      Its not the code that you execute to free memory alone, its when you choose to do so...

      Generic GC hasn't the foggiest idea when is a good time to reap, its just does it whenever the hell it feels like it. With real languages, I control when memory is reaped.

      If you are writing performance code in C++ and you don't know what a custom allocator looks like, you're hopelessly out of your depth, consult a professional.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    16. Re:BS by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Still just a pretty lame M$ pump piece, how to tell it's a pump piece, the hid what they did not want you to see. Sure they sure they set the order of the most used programs but where is the numbers behind it, you know like percentages. Look if number one is getting say 50% and number 14 is getting 0.5% who cares, what the hell number fourteen is doing when it beats out number 15 who got 0.49 percent. Only one reason to hide the numbers that really counted and only show the B$ meaningless numbers, the real numbers look like shite ie M$ could be doing far worse with real numbers but the others at the bottom are just doing worse than that. Stupidest most meaningless article I have seen it a while, why were the market share numbers missing, they are the only ones that count.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    17. Re:BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ladies and Gentlemen, the "no true scotsman" in fine form.

    18. Re:BS by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      You'd rather use Java than C# ?

    19. Re:BS by gymell · · Score: 1

      I have been a Java developer for almost 20 years, most of that as a consultant so I've been on a lot of projects across many clients and industries. I never seen Hungarian notation used or even suggested. Many design patterns that were popular early on have fallen out of favor as well.

    20. Re:BS by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      That has nothing to do with bad or good programmers.
      C++ jobs are super rare.

      And time to market is often more important than the raw speed of the program.

      There are 5 of us in my office, and three of us can run rings around the java GC.
      Then show me the benchmark and the Java program.

      The simple reason is that good programmers understand how
      You mean good in Java or good in C++?

      not to mess up caching.
      Obviously cashing has nothing to do with memory management as in allocating and freeing, so I take your claim with a pack of salt.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    21. Re:BS by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      So, you did not get my example at all?

      Why the funk does one make a null check? Usually you KNOW if the ptr at that place is null or not.

      I regularly see C++ code that is cluttered with "better safe than sorry" null checks. That belongs to "allocation/deallocation" or more general "memory management" code.

      No one is using "generic GCs" anymore. Java uses a concurrent multi generation heap allocator/GC. Actually it has several GC algorithms you can pick from.

      Again: I don't care if YOU can write a C++ program with efficient memory allocation and deallocation. 99% of the C++ can't hence we have plenty of smart pointer variations in Boost and std::

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    22. Re:BS by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You: I'm a vegetarian.
      Him: But you just ate a steak.
      You: But cows eat grass, so the important part of my meal was a plant.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    23. Re:BS by fred6666 · · Score: 1

      which one of the popular games based on the unity engine are not developed in Visual Studio and/or don't run on Windows?

    24. Re:BS by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I don't know, and neither do you.

      Not that it's relevant to the point at hand.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    25. Re:BS by fred6666 · · Score: 1

      If you read the discussion, you'd understand why it is relevant.

      My original question was:

      Could you name one major piece of software written in C# not specifically made to be executed on Windows? Without a visual studio project file in the source repository?

    26. Re:BS by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      No, your claim in comment 56250303 was that nobody writes in C# because the IDE, libraries etc were written in C/C++.

      Which is like saying wooden tables aren't made of wood because the tree was cut down using a metal saw.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    27. Re:BS by fred6666 · · Score: 1

      No, your claim in comment 56250303 was that nobody writes in C# because the IDE, libraries etc were written in C/C++.

      .

      I never claimed that.

      The Unity Engine is written in C/C++. Games using it may be developed in C#. I am asking if there is any example of one of these game which is
      1. popular/major
      2. Not targeting the Windows OS (or xbox or any other Microsoft platform)
      3. Not developed in Visual Studio

    28. Re:BS by fred6666 · · Score: 1

      Also if most of the game is not written in C# but uses a small piece of C# to interface with Unity, that would be a very poor example.

    29. Re:BS by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's even worse, it's verbose Hungarian. You typically have the type of the object and the full path of the class name, and an overly verbose description to boot. I keep pressing TAB to auto-complete names whenever I program in Java. That's the major reason why you shouldn't even bother programming in J2EE without an IDE. The other reason to use an IDE is the inane amount of boilerplate code you need to type, which makes code generators essential rather than just nice to have.

  5. Re:F1r5t P05t! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    typeScript and PowerShell

  6. Re: Only LUDDITES use JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No blockchain ? Luddite !

  7. Wrong place to look to plan your career skills by mykepredko · · Score: 2

    While it's always interesting to see what is going in and out of GitHub, I don't feel like it's going to be a good predictor of what you should be focusing on to be highly desirable in the market six months to a year in a future (when you've mastered programming in the language).

    If I was coaching somebody looking at what to look at towards the future, I would be recommending (in order of priority) Go, WebAssembly (built from C source) and then Swift will probably be in high demand towards the end of 2018 with few coders skilled in them and there being a need for apps on the Google, Mac and web platforms.

    1. Re:Wrong place to look to plan your career skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Depends on that person's career objectives:
      If they want jump jobs every 2 years and in between employment gigs learn the new language of the week, your advise is great and if they ride a bubble up they'll be rich.

      If they want steady, stable (but maybe more boring) employment, recommend C that was been in the top 10 since the lists started.

    2. Re:Wrong place to look to plan your career skills by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd first ask them what sort of programming career they'd be interested in, and then tailor my recommendations from there. There are many industries which are heavily skewed towards particular languages. Which do you think would be the most important language in the following fields?

      * Videogame programming
      * Web programming
      * Enterprise application programming
      * Mobile development
      * Scientific and engineering programming

      The languages a programmer would want to learn is likely different for each one of these career paths. In the case of my particular career (videogames), you'd be offering terrible advice. C++ completely dominates AAA game development, followed by C#, and a smattering of also-rans.

      Programming languages don't exist in a vacuum. They all have strengths and weaknesses, and trying to distill them into a generic popularity contest is a mistake, at least when it comes to career choices.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  8. Visual Studio is big in colleges/universities by mykepredko · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, Visual Studio is still something that colleges and universities rely upon when teaching students.

    That means that VC++, C#, .NET are the tools students are entering the job market with.

    1. Re:Visual Studio is big in colleges/universities by Junta · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I recall back in college, a professor said 'ok, we aren't going to use this, but I'm required to give each of you a copy of visual studio, so here you go'.

      This is a huge reason to be wary of the various 'corporation wants to "help" teach computing' situation. All those free/extreme discount student licenses? Well the first hit is free.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    2. Re:Visual Studio is big in colleges/universities by dwpro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I recall back in college, we developed on sun ultrasparks using feature poor text editors, and spent much time pouring over code for simple typos and parsing core dumps. Now as a professional developer I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to purchase a visual studios license if it weren't provided by work. Much of enterprise software is useless and overpriced-but not visual studios, IMHO.

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    3. Re:Visual Studio is big in colleges/universities by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      and spent much time pouring over code

      Isn't that rather messy?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:Visual Studio is big in colleges/universities by dwpro · · Score: 1

      Quite, as one might expect from a bunch of nerds crowded in poorly ventilated computer lab. Thank you for keeping the pedant spirit of Slashdot alive Hognoxious. *fedora tip*

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    5. Re:Visual Studio is big in colleges/universities by Junta · · Score: 1

      To be honest, that's not a terrible strategy to begin programming. Get a feel and understanding up front for some of the fundamentals before letting an IDE do it for you. I've run into too many folks that can't make a simple C program and compile it, without making it a project.

      As it moves up, there are a variety of IDEs in the world, and it would be wise to have curriculum ensure exposure to them in diverse ways. A curriculum that produces good well rounded professionals should have the users adept at using an IDE, not having an IDE, and being able to be relatively comfortable in a variety of languages on a variety of platforms. However a large chunk of candidates we interview got degrees from places that MS pretty much bought the whole curriculum, and the idea of doing development without Visual Studio and/or for a non-Windows platform terrified them.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  9. CSS is a programming language? by Prien715 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The top 10 programming languages [include]...CSS

    That tells you all you need to know about this "study". CSS is a mark-up language -- not a programming language (unless you're on the sadistic side as it is technically Turing complete).

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    1. Re:CSS is a programming language? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I'd call it a data structure serialization/external format, seeing as mark-up languages actually mark up some prose.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:CSS is a programming language? by jetkust · · Score: 1

      They likely know what CSS is. There was just no point in making that distinction, since like you just mentioned, there is no specific rule that eliminates it from being a "programming language".

    3. Re:CSS is a programming language? by Prien715 · · Score: 1

      there is no specific rule that eliminates it from being a "programming language".

      There is a in fact a difference. No one uses it as a programming languages, except for purposes of discussions such as this one.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    4. Re:CSS is a programming language? by jetkust · · Score: 1

      there is no specific rule that eliminates it from being a "programming language".

      There is a in fact a difference. No one uses it as a programming languages, except for purposes of discussions such as this one.

      It didn't take me long to find this:
      https://medium.mybridge.co/26-...
      and this:
      https://codepen.io/collection/...

      They are using the term programming language for simplicity sake, and are not technically incorrect.

    5. Re:CSS is a programming language? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      CSS is starting to get SOME scripting language-ish things embedded into it. For example, calc() is a rudimentary expression evaluator that can add, subtract, multiply, and divide very basic expressions (e.g. calc(100% - 50px);). But is it a scripting language? As far as I know, CSS is not Turing-complete (yet) but is certainly a pain to parse into lexical tokens.

      Microsoft created the 'behavior' back around IE 5.5, which would load and execute an external bit of code from CSS. Don't know (and don't really care) if Edge still supports behaviors. Including an external file and executing code would be the equivalent of writing a "language" that can run 'system()' calls and declaring the "language" Turing-complete because of that, which of course would get you laughed out of the room.

      In my universe if PHP doesn't make a Top 10 list, then the list is useless. PHP powers 85% of the dynamic web. PHP is also a very stable, mature language. PHP is an excellent command-line language - PHP is superior to shell scripting and Perl (and also, IMO, Python and Go) and doesn't require compiling/transpiling code yet PHP still has deep system access options. PHP 7 has superior performance improvements over PHP 5. I use PHP for all of my cron jobs and most of my bulk data processing needs.

      "Java in top spot, followed by C, C++, Python, C#, Visual Basic .NET, PHP, JavaScript, Ruby, and SQL".

      I guess SQL is kind of a programming language if you want to include stored procedures, but those aren't Standard SQL but rather extensions that the database vendor bolted onto their product. But if all you do is "SELECT * FROM table" type of queries, it's kind of hard to argue for it to be a language. How Ruby is on that list is baffling. Other than Sass, I haven't seen Ruby code in years. Maybe it's all that legacy code written in Ruby back when it was the hot, sexy thing to write now coming around to bite people on the rear? Guess this goes to show that these kind of lists are pretty useless. Java, Python, and Ruby need to cease existing. Javascript has no business being anywhere but a web browser.

      Learn PHP by actually writing PHP code (don't be lazy and use Composer) and then learn C. Write a couple of extensions for PHP in C. From there you'll have all the skills you need to learn other languages (and you'll hate most of them for good reason).

  10. How do they measure? by guruevi · · Score: 1

    There are different lists and get completely different results. Just because a lot of stuff is being talked about doesn't mean it's being used, it just means it's difficult to use and whoever tries needs a lot of help (eg. anything Microsoft)

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  11. Re:Microsoft languages on the rise? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    Visual Basic .NET </pedantic>

  12. not worth being outraged over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In the actual article all that was pointed out was PowerShell and TypeScript are rising (both ranked #17). PowerShell isn't really a language it's just like bash for Azure. TypeScript is probably gaining popularity due to its use in Angular 2 (or whatever the hell it's being called these days).

  13. How MS did it by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    There's a place for both dynamic and static/compiled (s/c) languages. The problem is that there's not enough mature competitors in the s/c field for general application development. It's mostly a race between Java and MS (C#/VBnet), but Oracle screwed up Java via lawsuits and other missteps, making MS more attractive relative speaking.

    Dynamic language interpreters are generally easier to design and implement than compilers because the type system is simpler or non-existent ("tag-free typing"); and it's easier to fudge the weak-points with dynamism. "Big compile" apps have to have all the ducks lined up right to finish compiling. If a small corner of a dynamic app has language-related issues, it won't stop the other 99% of the app from working.

    Therefore, there are fewer viable s/c competitors. The complexity of s/c languages means the "network effect" is stronger for s/c, and MS's large presence and deep pockets allow it to leverage the network effect so that it grabs a bigger percent of the s/c pie if the other s/c offerings get hiccups.

    (There are dynamic strong-typed languages and vice versa, but they usually don't go mainstream for reasons that would take longer to explain.)

  14. Re:More inaccurate analogies by Bryansix · · Score: 1

    The Rolex is more likely to survive due to a flaw in the wristband design on Casio G-Shock watches. It can also take repeated knocks just like the G-shock but it might need a little polishing after.

  15. Redmonk influenced by Redmond? by saccade.com · · Score: 1

    That name is awfully suspicious.

  16. I wish Linux had Visual Studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Visual Studio is my favorite IDE. I wish Linux had something as good as Visual Studio.

    1. Re:I wish Linux had Visual Studio by mcl630 · · Score: 3

      They do... it's called Visual Studio Code for Linux.

    2. Re:I wish Linux had Visual Studio by KlomDark · · Score: 1

      I have both and use both. I use Visual Studio 2017 for coding C#-based Web API backend stuff, and ASP.NET MVC front-ends. (Stuff with a .vsproj type of project) It is by far the best tool for that type of development.

      But when you want to do something like React with Node, using the package.json project format used by NPM/Yarn/Etc, then VS Code is the better way to go. VS 2017 gets in the way pretty bad when you just want to do something like npm install --save .

      I don't see either gunning for the other one's specialties. Probably eventually VS2017+ will go into that space, but for more Hipsterish newfangled coding, VSCode is the way to go.

    3. Re:I wish Linux had Visual Studio by michael_wojcik · · Score: 1

      I've been writing software for several decades, and I've yet to see the appeal of any IDE. (And I've used a lot of them.) Why use a limited set of functions when you can have a good shell (of your choice), a huge and easily extensible collection of general-purpose tools, and the editor, debugger, and build toolchain you prefer?

      When I'm doing woodworking or fixing something mechanical, I can put whatever tools I want on my workbench. I'm not limited to a set of tools that came with it; that would be idiotic. I don't see any good reason why software development should be different.

      That said, I think Venomous Studio is particularly terrible (and seems to get steadily worse with each iteration). It's full of misfeatures, like its insistence on performing a build when you start a program for debug. (I have to use it for debugging CLR code; Microsoft doesn't offer a decent standalone managed-code debugger.) Or the way it likes to inject patently-incorrect elements like and into project files for no reason. Or the way it will re-enable extensions you've disabled when it updates.

    4. Re:I wish Linux had Visual Studio by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      They previous anon said:

      >Visual Studio is my favorite IDE. I wish Linux had something as good as Visual Studio.

      VS Code is pretty much just the VS IDE, exactly what he's asking for.

  17. Re:I see exactly 1 MS but 2 Apple languages by mcl630 · · Score: 1

    The two MS languages that rose, Typescript and PowerShell, aren't mentioned in the summary. They both moved up the list, but aren't in the top 10.

  18. Javascript by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 2
    JavaScript remains the most popular programming language

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    Popular as in used because it's the only option, not because people want to use it over pretty much anything else.

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    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
  19. Re:Real websites don't use Javascript by exomondo · · Score: 1

    Not everything on the WWW is a website, if it requires Javascript it's often a webapp or dynamic content presentation. Static content generally doesn't need javascript. There are plenty of web applications out there, Google Docs for instance or Apple's iCloud suite, most webmail.

  20. Giving the devil his due by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Here's the thing: I really wanted to hate C#, but it's better than C++. What they did is look at all the common mistakes programmers made in C++, and tried to design a language it was impossible to make those mistakes in. Combined with managed code, it makes bad programmers more productive. Of course, it's slow, bloated, and tied to the Microsoft/WIndows ecosystem. But if I was offshoring all my Windows work to India, I'd be happier if they were using C#. Of course, if were developing in Linux or for multiple platforms, I'd be using C++ and/or Python.

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    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Giving the devil his due by geoskd · · Score: 1

      What they did is look at all the common mistakes programmers made in C++, and tried to design a language it was impossible to make those mistakes in.

      If you want to make furniture, you need to have some sharp woodworking tools. Insisting that a rubber mallet is the right tool for the job because nobody every cuts their fingers off with one is just plain ignorant.

      C#, in ironic contrast to the name, is a rubber mallet. In the programming world, it just isn't that useful.

      Just because a language lets more people create programs doesn't even remotely mean that any of those "programmers" have any business near a computer.

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    2. Re:Giving the devil his due by ndykman · · Score: 1

      .Net Core has been running on Linux for over a year, and while you don't get everything, you get quite a lot. It's not nearly as tied to Windows as it used to be and it is become more of it's own independent ecosystem.

  21. Redmonks statistics are horrible by geoskd · · Score: 2

    Redmonks statistical methods and analysis are horribly biased. Can we please stop quoting any conclusions he comes to? They are completely useless at best and actively misleading at worst.

    If you want to know what is really going on in the CS world, look to the IEEE; everyone else has an agenda they are pushing...

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  22. Re:Still No Jobs for Coders by geoskd · · Score: 2

    I earned a 4.5 GPA (scale of 5) and I have two degrees in computer science

    I say this tongue in cheek, but be assured I am serious:

    You screwed up your college experience.

    School was never about earning the degree directly. Your GPA doesn't mean shit to anybody because everyone knows that thanks to grade inflation, anyone with an IQ above shoe leather can get good grades, all it takes is effort, which all but the laziest of people can do. Unfortunately, Even the most Herculean effort, and the highest GPA doesn't make a good programmer good.

    And all of that is completely irrelevant to getting a job. Assuming that you can work well under pressure (Which test taking accurately indicates), the one thing you needed from your college education had absolutely nothing to do with your classes. The whole point of the exercise was to network and meet new people. Those are the very same people that you should look to when you want to find gainful employment.

    Not for nothing, but if you actually needed classes in order to learn how to program (Which it sounds like you didn't), you would make a particularly lousy employee. Managers want employees who will learn how to get shit done on their own, because that makes the bosses job 1000x easier. If the boss has to send you for training every time (s)he needs you to take on something outside of your immediate experience, you wont last long.

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  23. FUCK EVERYTHING MICROSOFT by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    Languages for LOOOOOOOSERS

  24. I wrote this item, too: mine got lost by the+gmr · · Score: 1

    Not disparage ms.mash's excellent summary here, but I wrote this one, too, last week, and mine seemed to get lost in the firehose. I am new to Slashdot. Do duplicates happen often? Here's mine - https://slashdot.org/submissio...