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Tesla Raises Prices At Its Supercharger Stations
Tesla is increasing the cost of the paid Supercharger access, but a spokesperson for the company says that it "will never be a profit center." Electrek reports: When introducing the program, Tesla said that it aimed to still make the cost of Supercharging cheaper than gasoline and that it doesn't aim to make its Supercharger network a profit center. Instead, they want to use the money to keep growing the network which now consists of over 1,180 stations and close to 9,000 Superchargers. But this week, the rates were updated across the U.S. Some states saw massive increases of as much as 100 percent -- though most regions saw their rates increase by 20 to 40 percent. For example, Oregon saw an increase of $0.12 to $0.24 per kWh, while California, Tesla's biggest market in the U.S., got an increase from $0.20 to $0.26 kWh and New York's rate went from $0.19 to $0.24 per kWh. A spokesperson for Tesla said in a statement: "We occasionally adjust rates to reflect current local electricity and usage. The overriding principle is that Supercharging will always remain significantly cheaper than gasoline, as we only aim to recover a portion of our costs while setting up a fair system for everyone. This will never be a profit center for Tesla."
esla said that it aimed to still make the cost of Supercharging cheaper than gasoline and that it doesn't aim to make its Supercharger network a profit center. Instead, they want to use the money to keep growing the network which now consists of over 1,180 stations and close to 9,000 Superchargers.
So they're just reinvesting their profits back into the business then. I don't have a problem with that, and I think it's the appropriate thing to do in their case, but don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.
This site https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe...
says that the Tesla Model S AWD gets about 98MPGe, or if you want less "equivalents"and more hard numbers - 35kWh/100miles.
So cost per mile:
ICE: $3/gallon * (1 gallon / 25 miles) = $0.120/mile
Tesla: $0.24/kWh * (35kWh/100miles) = $0.084/mile
Ignoring purchase and maintenance costs of course.
And of course the superchargers are intended for occasional, rushed charging with the assumption that most of the people most of the time will use home/work trickle chargers paying market rates of closer to $0.12/kWh. or about $0.042/mile.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Plus gas is really $2.50 per gal. So assuming a 30mpg car it is $2.50/30 = 0.08. For Tesla you get 3 miles per kWh so it is .26/3 = $0.08/mile.
Yeah, that roughly matches up with my numbers. 12 gallons of fuel in my Rav4 = about 90 kWh in my Model X. So $36 in California gasoline = about $21 in supercharger fees even at these new rates (if I didn't have unlimited supercharging).
That part seems a bit unrealistic to me. My marginal price for electricity at home is, IIRC, $0.38/kWh, or 13.3 cents per mile. Residential energy prices are deliberately much higher than commercial in California, so IMO, unless you have solar panels at home, charging at home probably isn't viable unless you use almost no electricity for anything other than your car.
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Keep in mind that the supercharge network is intended to help people traverse long distances. For the 99% of the time that you drive your vehicle as a city car, your home charging is still the same cost it was before. Tesla has made no secret of its desire to get people off superchargers for their daily charging needs, so this announcement should carry nearly zero impact for people who are using the network as intended.
"I haven't driven a car that got as low as 25mpg in thirty years or so."
Why is it about you?
The latest hard data from the EPA states: "The MY 2016 adjusted fuel economy is 24.7 mpg..." (for "new personal vehicle[s]", so obviously lower than that if all operational vehicles are considered).
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
That price for power is insane. Far more than California average.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Tesla has never had a profit - except for that ONE quarter and that was from some accounting tricks.
Tesla is a money loser and has been for over 14 years. And if it can't make money now while is pretty much has the EV market, they're gonna get their asses kicked. They are burning through about a HALF A BILLION dollars every quarter in operations: marketing, salaries, and other expenses. That money is gone- forever. So, when stupid people say, "Tesla isn't losing money, they're investing in factories.", they are showing their complete lack of understanding of Tesla's business and its problems. And they either never read a Tesla financial statement or they are just ignorant.
If it weren't for the periodic and frequent cash infusions that Musk gets from investors - like this last round of JUNK bonds - Tesla would be out of business in a few months. In other words, Tesla is not a viable business.
I predict in a year or two, we'll be discussing the bankruptcy of Tesla.
And how some folks picked up the assets for pennies on the dollar, hired folks who know what they are doing, and will be actually making money - like what happened to Iridium.
And your $36 includes taxes, which helps pay for road repair and expansion. Do those electric prices do anything to help maintain the roadways they use?
I drive a 2008 Toyota Rav4 (4-Cyl, 2.4 Liter) and track all of my fill ups using Fuelly. Over the past 10 times I filled up I averaged 21.0 MPG and since I started using Fuelly (176 fill ups ago) I have an average of 22.8 MPG.
Never has a term been so apt.
Are non-Tesla entities allowed to make supercharger stations? It's a non-issue at this point, but eventually the electric vehicle market will grow large enough to make independently owned charging stations viable.
Not only do you want competition to make sure Tesla never decides to start gouging at the stations, but when more electric vehicles come on the market it would be much better if they all shared a common charging interface. No one wants to wander around town looking for a compatible charge-station.
I stole this Sig
"Plus gas is really $2.50 per gal. So assuming a 30mpg car it is $2.50/30 = 0.08. For Tesla you get 3 miles per kWh so it is .26/3 = $0.08/mile."
Of course price of fuel is only part of the equation. Servicing costs for an EV should be much lower than for an ICEV too although I believe Teslas are a little pricey for servicing, but when you take a more normal EV like my Nissan LEAF versus my BMW MINI the cost differences are stark.
Last year I charged my car at home or on free chargers at carparks mostly and I also had the 30,000Km full dealer service done. Total running cost for the LEAF over the year works out at $300 including servicing. My MINI covered about the same distance last year and here the price of fuel is $2 per litre so around $8 a US gallon (NZ$) and it costs me $100 to fill that car which will do 750km per tank. That's $4000 in fuel alone this last year, plus there was some fairly serious servicing that needed doing such as new brakes and discs, clutch, drive shaft and tyres, plus all the usual fluid changes and that lot adds up to another $3500.
The LEAF likely won't need new discs or pads for a long long time due to regenerative braking but the tyres are close to needing done so we could add say $800 for a new set of boots on the LEAF and still be over $6000 cheaper to run in the last year than the MINI which is a fuel efficient little car. Having both certainly brings home the marked difference in costs and while the cost of entry to the LEAF was higher, the annual running costs bring it to parity within three years of purchase and after that the LEAF is much cheaper.
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
Really? I don't think I've ever driven a car that got 25 mpg in city driving. In practice, mine have ranged from 12-20 mpg in town, and 22-30 on the road. Current car is about 20 mpg in town, 25-30 on the road depending on how fast I drive.
I agree with your implication that EVs aren't paying their fair share, but the vast majority of road wear is due to commercial (semi-trailer) traffic for highways, and just plain old age and weather for side streets.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Actually, in America, our ice vehicles are decades behind on infrastructure support. We need to raise gas/diesel by  50/gal or more.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That's nice, but the US National Average MPG for new cars sold is 26.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
Are non-Tesla entities allowed to make supercharger stations? {...} but when more electric vehicles come on the market it would be much better if they all shared a common charging interface. No one wants to wander around town looking for a compatible charge-station.
In Europe, there's a standard to which most manufacturer are gravitating toward : Mennekes (official name Type 2 (VDE-AR-E 2623-2-2)).
It's mostly designed to carry tri-phase AC current.
Most of the cars sold in Europe tend to use Mennekes or have adapters for it. European Tesla, as far I've seen, come with Mennekes sockets instead of the weird proprietary shit that they use in the US.
Different Type 2 connectors will simply advertise different max current to the car. Your home charger will advertise current up to 15A (perhaps 25A) on 1 or 3 phases. High speed charger will advertise much higher currents.
The main difference setting appart Teslas is how they handle DC.
The current standard is based around "Combined Charging System" (CCS) : two extra pins below the connector to carry the high voltage high current DC power.
Tesla instead re-use the AC pins with some proprietary signaling to advertise DC instead of AC.
At least where I live, you can find AC Mennekes charger in lots of public places, and nearly every parking at least features normal house-plugs giving low current AC.
On some big highways you can even find charging stations that features Mennekes, CCS and ChaDeMo.
Usually the house-plug style chargers are free (they are actual house plugs with only fancy box around them advertising them as vehicle chargers).
AC Mennekes charge tend to be paying, but not much more expensive than base electricity costs.
All the tri-standard high speed chargers I've seen are paying, but again, close to electricity costs.
Most of the above are usually made available in partnership with the local utility city company.
You can charge Teslas at them but :
- due to differing standards, you can only charge them with the AC Mennekes. You can't charge them DC (they lack the CCS pins).
- they'll charge slower than on Tesla Super charger (or than if they had the DC pins).
I think I've read that Elon Musk isn't asking royalties for companies to implement the DC Tesla protocols.
So maybe eventually the tri-standard high-speed chargers can be modified to allow DC Tesla charging on their Mennekes plug.
(I've read about un-approved Tesla mode enabled on some multi-standard charger)
I'm sure there as some ChaDeMo or CSS to Tesla adapters on the market, too.
In short :
- Yes, in Europe, there are other brand of fast chargers than Tesla.
- Due to differing implementation for DC, Tesla can't user their higher super charging speed there, but they still can "normal charge" with AC.
- The charging interface is already common, except for the above exception (and except for some older cars that use older standards like Type 1).
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