China's Anti-Pollution Initiative Produces Stellar Results (popularmechanics.com)

hackingbear writes: China has declared war on its pollution -- one of the worst on the planet -- and now appears to be winning. Popular Mechanics reports: "Over the past four years, pollution in China's major cities has decreased by an average of 32 percent, with some cities seeing an even bigger drop, according to professor Michael Greenstone of the Energy Policy Institute. This decline comes after several aggressive policies implemented by the Chinese government, including prohibiting the building of new coal plants, forcing existing plants to reduce their emissions, lowering the amount of automobile traffic, and closing down some steel mills and coal mines. Some cities, like Beijing, have achieved even greater reductions in air pollution. Beijing has seen a 35 percent drop in particulates, while the city of Shijiazhuang saw a 39 percent drop. China has prioritized pollution reduction in these cities, with the government spending over $120 billion in Beijing alone."

Comments

There's a lot of admiration for China

[DNS-and-BIND]

A lot of people, including the New York Times, admire China's system and say that it's better than what we have in America. China is achieving great results with enlightened leadership and this cut in pollution is a shining success story. America couldn't have done it, there would be lawsuits and regulatory capture in the EPA and other important federal agencies. Who's to say the Times is wrong?

There is only one thing worse than one-party autocracy, and that is one-party democracy, which is what we have in America today.

One-party autocracy certainly has its drawbacks. But when it is led by a reasonably enlightened group of people, as China is today, it can also have great advantages. That one party can just impose the politically difficult but critically important policies needed to move a society forward in the 21st century. It is not an accident that China is committed to overtaking us in electric cars, solar power, energy efficiency, batteries, nuclear power and wind power. China's leaders understand that in a world of exploding populations and rising emerging-market middle classes, demand for clean power and energy efficiency is going to soar. Beijing wants to make sure that it owns that industry and is ordering the policies to do that, including boosting gasoline prices, from the top down.

Our one-party democracy is worse.

Re:There's a lot of admiration for China

[RazorSharp]

The New York Times likes to put over-the-top columns on the op-ed page from both sides of the aisle. It's disingenuous for you to claim that the column you cited is indicative of the opinions of those who run the company. They frequently have two columns on the same page that contradict one another. Does that mean that the New York Times has paradoxical opinions? No. It means it's an op-ed page.

Even if you take that article to represent the paper's opinion, you misconstrue the author's point. He's not praising China's political structure as much as he's criticizing the ineffectualness of America's system. Considering that your post is so tongue-in-cheek, it would seem that you ought to recognize the same tone in the article you cite.

You're trolling and trying to turn a non-political story into a political discussion.

Re: There's a lot of admiration for China

[aberglas]

Problem is that History is not taught in schools. People do not know China's recent history.

During Mao's strong man Great Leap Forward some 30 *Million* people starved to death. A billion went hungry -- the birth rate plummeted. All due to Mao. Then the cultural revolution.

Since Deng Xioping there has been an economic miracle. But now we have a new emperor, Emperor Xi Jinping. Ruler for life.

Maybe he will be good for China. But if he is not, then there will be no way to remove him until he dies. He has centralized all power, removed all checks and balances, and cracked down on media and anyone that dissents at any level. Not good signs. He also boasts an aggressive foreign policy.

So, be careful what you wish for. Most strong men have been disasters for their countries of the highest order. Hitler, Stalin, Mao. The exception is probably Lee Kuan Yew, but he kept a semi-democratic system in place.

Lacking context in all sources...

[XSportSeeker]

A win is a win, and of course a drastic reduction in pollution for China is a great thing.
But all the sources sounds extremely one sided, like propaganda or something.
32% decrease OF WHAT?

Because you know, there is a big difference between reducing 32% of normal pollution that's expected on any major urban center, and reducing 32% of a smog so dense and deadly that it looks like you are around a volcano that just erupted.

Yes, an improvement is still an improvement, but for those curious not about the reduction but about the current state, here's a more informative map:
http://berkeleyearth.org/air-q...

So the thing is, yes, 32% reduction is awesome, but it's still nowhere near good enough. It's not even close even to major urban centers in the rest of the world.
To get to the same level of some other countries, China would probably need something more towards 70 or 80% reduction.

And yes, I know that China's air polution problem is largely the fault of basically the entire global industrialized society - the polution is there because most major countries with the biggest economies in the world just shifted the entire industrial production, with all it's polution problems, straight to China, where we all knew regulation was lax, and welfare basically doesn't exist. So this isn't an attack against China.

But perhaps let's not celebrate too much when we still have such a long way to go...
I'm only saying this because perhaps some people don't realize how bad it really is there. It is not a joke when people say that kids, seniors and people with some health conditions could straight up die and suffocate in a normal hot day in some chinese cities without warning, while they could live pretty well in other parts of the world.
There were days when people walking around on big city streets there got home looking like they just emerged out of a coal mine - exposed skin brown or black with layers of particulate matter.
India is another country that will have to do a whole ton of work and invest a whole ton of money to get their pollution levels back to a tolerable state. And both countries needs help on this, because in the end it affects all of us.

They Have Access to OSHA and EPA Documents...

[IonOtter]

We've already been through this, here in the US and Europe. They don't have to repeat all of our mistakes, and our multiple environmental and regulatory agencies make everything freely accessible to anyone who wants them.

So it should be no surprise when they make rapid advances in cleaning up things, once they get the word from on high.

No, what IS a surprise, is the fact that the word came down from on high.

It's almost as if the wealthy and powerful within China realized, "Oh, shit! I don't have anywhere I can run to, if this all goes to Hell in a handbasket! We better make sure that doesn't happen!"

This is a realization which the rich and powerful of the US and Europe have yet to arrive at.