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Say Goodbye To the Information Age: It's All About Reputation Now (aeon.co)

An anonymous reader shares an essay on Aeon magazine by Gloria Origgi, an Italian philosopher and a tenured senior researcher at CNRS : We are experiencing a fundamental paradigm shift in our relationship to knowledge. From the 'information age', we are moving towards the 'reputation age', in which information will have value only if it is already filtered, evaluated and commented upon by others. Seen in this light, reputation has become a central pillar of collective intelligence today. It is the gatekeeper to knowledge, and the keys to the gate are held by others. The way in which the authority of knowledge is now constructed makes us reliant on what are the inevitably biased judgments of other people, most of whom we do not know.

[...] The paradigm shift from the age of information to the age of reputation must be taken into account when we try to defend ourselves from 'fake news' and other misinformation and disinformation techniques that are proliferating through contemporary societies. What a mature citizen of the digital age should be competent at is not spotting and confirming the veracity of the news. Rather, she should be competent at reconstructing the reputational path of the piece of information in question, evaluating the intentions of those who circulated it, and figuring out the agendas of those authorities that leant it credibility.

28 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Trumpian Algebra by Cornwallis · · Score: 2, Informative

    In other words, if it came out of any politician's mouth, it's a lie.

    FTFY

  2. Malicious crock of shit by ohnonononono · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Technology provides us with the possibility of OBJECTIVE insight and provides framework for OBJECTIVE verification (with mathematics).
    This is simply arguing for dystopia and forsaking a new Enlightenment, a new Renaissance, because "eh, it's too hard to care."
    Reputation is emotional and therefore non-objective. Animals can construct hierarchies based on reputation. We are human beings with all the tools to shape our reality. Why should we forsake our intellect for an animalistic way of life? Because it allows us to be controlled by whoever is at the top of the hierarchy dispensing reputation? This article, this idea, is poison.

    mature citizen

    she

    Yep, this is a propaganda stunt.

    The message here is "blindly trust your favorite source, here's a falsely sophisticated argument for why it's okay for YOU, the smart he/she/xe/.... that you are, to do so". If listened to it could have terrible effect on society, especially if its effective on the "tech sector", the people who have pretty much the only jobs that matter in the "second industrial revolution", the people who have the power to contest the will of their employers and prevent dystopia.
    If the horrors that mass surveillance + AI + automation offer us are to be averted, it is YOU that are going to have to stand up, and in order to do so, you will need a philosophical grounding in order to coordinate your efforts with your peers.

    This trash article is an attempt to subvert that grounding.

    1. Re:Malicious crock of shit by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Insightful
      User ID > 5 million.

      Achievements = 2

      I guess you don't have enough reputation to be trusted.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    2. Re:Malicious crock of shit by jarkus4 · · Score: 2

      Technology provides us with the possibility of OBJECTIVE insight and provides framework for OBJECTIVE verification (with mathematics).

      Not really, since we need to establish facts first that we use to gain those insights. Average person is pretty much unable to establish facts about any non reproducible events - we need to rely on others to provide us those and rate their "truth" by their reputation and number of matching reports. Unfortunately if there are big players (eg countries) involved with their own agenda those methods become seriously insufficient.

      For example the recent poisoning in the UK: UK points at Russia and they point at someone else eg Ukraine. Both have some motive and potentially ways. How are we supposed to verify the facts in the absolute way? We can basically only choose to believe the side we trust more, in other words reputation

    3. Re:Malicious crock of shit by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unfortunately, until we can find perfect technology, developed by the Platonic ideal perfectly moral race of beings, technology is going to be used by bad people as a method of control and as a tool for tyrants.

      But you can make that very same argument about anything used by humans. The very paper ballots you seem to think are a solution were developed by the same immoral race of beings that have created everything since. Is that technology less susceptible to being used by bad people as a method of control or a tool for tyrants? Given the sham elections done with paper ballots in the various peoples' republics of the world, I don't think they're any more of a safeguard against political corruption than anything else.

      If you have a scientifically or mathematically verified model but refuse to use it, the fault isn't with the model. The important part about paper ballots is that anyone and everyone can count them. That paper is used is immaterial, and that people can participate in the verification is the salient aspect of the system. So if you want to have an electronic voting machine, the important part is that everyone can look at the code and verify for themselves that it isn't doing anything untoward.

    4. Re:Malicious crock of shit by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      But you can make that very same argument about anything used by humans.

      That's true, but technology's efficiencies are potentially (I would say "especially") capable of making mass control more efficient.

      That's why we have to be very, very careful about the technology we adopt. It's not morally neutral, as we've been told since the Industrial Revolution. Technology may be morally fungible, but it's not morally neutral.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Malicious crock of shit by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      In the future everyone will have multiple identities. Like people have multiple credit cards and select one per transaction.

      There will be a huge market for bootstrapping new identities. Reputation merchants will have to develop spam filters, and the false positives are going to be brutal.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Malicious crock of shit by clovis · · Score: 5, Informative

      The author of the book, Gloria Origgi, is saying nearly the opposite of what many posters think she is saying.
      She is saying you need to understand how you acquire knowledge and she says you need to examine the sources of that knowledge.
      There's no blind trust anywhere in her writing.

      She is also making two cases.
      One is that reputation-trusting is how things actually work in the modern world.

      There is an underappreciated paradox of knowledge that plays a pivotal role in our advanced hyper-connected liberal democracies: the greater the amount of information that circulates, the more we rely on so-called reputational devices to evaluate it. What makes this paradoxical is that the vastly increased access to information and knowledge we have today does not empower us or make us more cognitively autonomous. Rather, it renders us more dependent on other people’s judgments and evaluations of the information with which we are faced.

      Two is that you should not blindly accept new information.

      Whenever we are at the point of accepting or rejecting new information, we should ask ourselves: Where does it come from? Does the source have a good reputation? Who are the authorities who believe it? What are my reasons for deferring to these authorities?

      For three simple cases:
      You cannot personally verify the moon landings.
      You cannot personally verify the efficacy and dangers of vaccines.
      You cannot personally verify the predictions of climate scientists.

      All these things come from other sources, and ultimately you will need to choose and defer to the authority of one or another of these sources as being an objective authority, if you are going to accept new knowledge. And because ultimately you will be making decisions based upon the reputation of these sources, you should be aware that you are making that decision based upon a trust of reputation.

    7. Re:Malicious crock of shit by alvinrod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's true, but technology's efficiencies are potentially (I would say "especially") capable of making mass control more efficient.

      You can probably argue that incrementally back all the way to the first cave paintings as well though. There's always going to be some new danger on the horizon, but I don't think this presents a long term concern. If something is detrimental towards human survival, those traits which enable it or succumb to it will be selected against in the long run. That may seem painful right now, but it's no less so than the mound of corpses it took to develop an immune response to all of our past threats.

      It's always in someone's best interest to let the next genie out of the bottle and even though it will leave another mound of corpses on the landscapes of history, it will move the species as a whole forward. I suppose modern society has afforded people the freedom and ability to go live off in the woods and away from it all, but I think that's just burying one's head in the sand.

    8. Re:Malicious crock of shit by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If something is detrimental towards human survival, those traits which enable it or succumb to it will be selected against in the long run.

      It is estimated that 150-200 species become extinct every day. Natural selection didn't save them, and there's no reason to believe natural selection will save us.

      Plus, the ability (some might say, "propensity") of humans to do harm to each other (and themselves) develops much more rapidly than the mechanisms of natural selection.

      You can probably argue that incrementally back all the way to the first cave paintings as well though.

      No, you probably can't.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:Malicious crock of shit by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately if there are big players (eg countries) involved with their own agenda those methods become seriously insufficient. For example the recent poisoning in the UK: UK points at Russia and they point at someone else eg Ukraine. Both have some motive and potentially ways.

      In this particular case I think the situation is exactly the same as it would be 50 or 100 or 500 years ago, obviously we've always had to judge the credibility of information. Heck, you need to do that if you're trying to determine who stole cookies from the cookie jar. But technology has given us a lot of mostly objective information in the form of photos, videos, logs and other electronic records, you don't need to rely on trust and reputation if you have a surveillance camera record who steals cookies. And I think technology has made it much harder to keep the lid on actual events, these days it's pretty much just North Korea that's unaware of the conditions in the "outside world". In fact, some go way too far in filming accidents and such.

      Of course it only moves the conspiracy theories from what happened "Holocaust didn't happen" to why it happened "9/11 was a false flag operation" so you can't win those over. But I mean the people who scream "fake news" is very well aware of this whole trust/reputation thing - it's just that they've decided that mainstream media is a big hoax. The MSM have been bought/duped/are being controlled by the evil forces behind the conspiracy and thus the order of cause and effect is reversed, the conspiracy is true and thus the less mainstream media agree with the conspiracy the less trustworthy they are. They're already past the point where they'd consider the possibility that the conspiracy is the hoax.

      I think it comes down to humans not being able to deal with access to billions of opinions, I mean in a village you could have a hundred people and one village idiot. What one person told you was a crackpot theory, what a hundred people told you was probably true. But with the Internet even the craziest of crazy theories can gather enough followers that you can get trapped in an endless trail of blogs and YouTube videos and crackpots referring to other crackpots until it's like hundreds of people have told you #pizzagate is true. And it kinda doesn't help that millions of people think it's false because you can't really relate to a million people. You just know that "lots" of people agree with you.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    10. Re:Malicious crock of shit by tbannist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But technology has given us a lot of mostly objective information in the form of photos, videos, logs and other electronic records, you don't need to rely on trust and reputation if you have a surveillance camera record who steals cookies.

      Unfortunately, that's not really true. Photos can be doctored, videos can be generated, logs and electronic records can be altered or falsified. You still need to rely on trust and reputation to tell you that the objective information that you have been provided is both truthful and representative. And always remember that in addition to faking the evidence you are given, someone can also hide the information that they don't want you to see.

      The crazy conspiracy people have lots and lots of "evidence" that they will show you that "proves" their conspiracy is true. Moon landing hoaxers will show you video of the flag on the moon "waving in the wind" to prove it was filmed on earth, however, they won't show you other video where it's not moving or tell you that the video was taken immediately after the flag was planted (and thus a more plausible explanation is that the flag is still vibrating from the pole being stuck in the ground).

      The problem is not just evidence, which can be manufactured, but also framing which can be used to persuade people to overlook inconvenient truths.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
  3. That assumes... by toejam13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This article takes the noble assumption that people actually want the truth instead of the warm, comforting embrace of the self-reaffirming echo chamber. I know more than a few people who turn to questionable news because they don't want their view of the world challenged. As long as these people exist, there will be a market for this sort of information.

    1. Re:That assumes... by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2

      You make the assumption that everyone wants the same thing. Not everyone watches Entertainment Tonight and talks politics on Facebook.

      I would pay money, good money, to participate on a website with quality discussion. I would imagine other people are the same.

      Some people are always trying to outrun the "Eternal September" that came to their platform. Facebook used to require a college e-mail account.

  4. A lot of words for a simple concept by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Back in my age we called it "argument from authority". And even then we knew that it's bullshit.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:A lot of words for a simple concept by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Informative

      The article is an appeal to authority of the worst kind. Let's hope it gets the reputation it deserves.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  5. Put less politely: by hey! · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We're entering the Age of Bullshit.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  6. Now? by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 2

    It's always been about reputation. The Information Age did not change that.

  7. Knowledge was always reputation based by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The issue isn't that we rely on reputation to decide if something is truth. The issue is it is easier for charlatans to build reputation now a days.

  8. One slight flaw in the plan by petes_PoV · · Score: 2

    in which information will have value only if it is already filtered, evaluated and commented upon by others.

    So how good is the author's reputation, that we should believe this?

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  9. Critical thinking has always been an asset. by swell · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Gloria Origgi brings up an interesting point of discussion. It purports to relate to the 'information age', but it has always been there.

    Every time someone asserts a 'fact', we must evaluate their motives. If they don't have a discernable motive, we have to look to the source--where did that 'fact' originate, whose hands did it pass through? It's a tedious process but the only way to begin evaluating that 'fact'.

    Unfortunately, we have to continually monitor our own belief in facts. They tend to become rooted to the extent that their source is forgotten. Those of us who adhere to a religion were probably indoctrinated before we were capable of rationally evaluating information. How can we now go back and confront those assumptions?

    Thus, entire societies are pawns in a flow of 'information' circulating endlessly, invisibly in the ether causing a contagion that is nearly insurmountable.

    Belief is a matter of accepting 'facts' without question. No sensible person would allow this. Every 'fact' can be evaluated for accuracy on a scale, say from 0 to 9. One gathers the best information available and gives a particular fact a value between those numbers. As more information becomes available, the score may change. It is never zero or nine.

    But most people are averse to shades of grey. They need up or down; on or off; left or right; and nothing in between. They like slogans and easy solutions. No painful thinking required. If a fact is asserted loud enough, often enough, then it must be true. Educational systems perpetuate this problem by rote learning with no critical thought process allowed.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  10. Re:Slashdot's political agenda by Betty+Crocker · · Score: 5, Insightful
  11. Re:Trumpian Algebra by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Quit with the false equivalency, it's lazy and not true. No politician is your perfect soulmate, but some legitimately try to improve the world. Find those, vote for those, and live with the fact that they aren't perfect. Pretending all politicians are as bad as the worst just gives more power to the worst of the worst, because we might as well elect them if all politicians are the same.

  12. Re:Trumpian Algebra by pots · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know, lumping all politicians together like this really isn't any better than any other form of bigotry. It comes from the same place, and causes all the same problems. It's particularly harmful here, of course, because while racial or ethnic bigotry undermines our ability to live together in the same country, this undermines our ability to have a country at all. Even monarchies have politicians.

    The keystone principle of representative government is that politicians are not all the same and that citizens can maintain their government by carefully choosing between those politicians. You may argue that this principle has proven to be unreliable, and I'd agree with you there with the present case in point, but that's a far cry from claiming that it's a total failure.

  13. We have blockchains by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is a solved problem.

    --
    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
  14. Stop making sense and appeal to authority... by neurosine · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Good critical thinking should never be abandoned because we defer to the source of the arguments put forth. From many religions to Hitler this has proven over and over again to be a bad road to go down. Completely untrustworthy people can be right sometimes. The most rigid researcher can make a mistake. I agree that truth and validity are becoming more important. The way to recognize them, and to distinguish sound arguments from unsound arguments is to apply good critical thinking skills. Unfortunately Logic is a university level course. It really should be taught in Jr. High, and touched upon in Elementary. This would certainly boost the IQ of the general populace...which is maybe why it isn't taught. Politicians and governments get away with too many things because the people they rule don't seem to have very good bullshit detectors.

    1. Re:Stop making sense and appeal to authority... by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2

      Critical thinking maybe why it isn't taught.

  15. Re:Trumpian Algebra by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The *only* force that motivates politicians to actually do something good for the world is public accountability.

    Your optimism may be admirable, but you fail to realize a few important and inescapable facts:

    1) Political power is sought-after by the most corrupt people in the world, and they are the ones who want it the most. Furthermore, people who naturally adhere to high moral standards and want to do good for the world generally do it through volunteering, charitable donations, etc. These people are not power-hungry and as such very rarely devote their lives to the kind of work one must do to attain power. So, the relative proportions of candidates begins with favoritism for the already-corrupt, by logical necessity.

    2) The morally corrupt have an advantage over the morally pure during the campaign trail. They will straight-up lie to get votes, etc. So, they quickly eliminate any of the kinds of politicians you are thinking of. Once they have office, they form disgusting under-the-table alliances with rich and powerful special interest groups, in order to secure their own positions and further shut-out anyone that threatens their club with greater-good style legislation.

    3) Lastly, it is a well known fact of human psychology that the human brain changes once a person attains power over others. Neural chemical changes go into effect, and a person's sense of what the "greater good" even means changes. They start to see "the masses" as petty, visionless, unable to figure out what is good for them, and generally undeserving of serious consideration. Further, they see other potentates as contemporaries who, though they may have differing agendas, actually understand a big-picture and are worthy of cooperation and special deference. This is why they do not bring charges against one another even when they are bitter rivals, and when they know that what the others have done is straight-up criminal. The old phrase is absolutely true: power corrupts.

    The end result is inescapable: all politicians are evil. The only way to make them behave is to force them to behave through public accountability and devoted voter-pressure.